Tefl in South Korea

cloneslad

This thread used to be all about helping people looking for advice and people who have worked here offering some advice to those coming over.

Then page 18 of the thread came and now it had turned into a debate and people trying to prove they are right and not backing down over any little thing.

I'm not going to get caught up with arguing and retorting over everything I say on the internet so my next response will be when someone wants help or advice or if something changes over here and I feel it would be good for potential teachers to hear about it.

livinginkorea

IzzyWizzy wrote: »

I was simply noting that there is, in my experience, a huge difference. One poster chose to take that as a personal insult. I was simply trying to help and inform the person who asked by saying that I don't think a TEFL cert is required to teach in Korea. I think it's much more important to be flexible, patient, good fun and enthusiastic than to jump through all the CELTA hoops. From what I have seen, it's more important to be nice and fun than to be an excellent teacher, whereas in Europe it's the opposite. On the first day of the CELTA course I did, the tutor asked who had taught in Asia and told those people that what we'd be doing would be completely different. I want to go to Korea because I love Korea, not because I think my teaching experience would be put to better use there than here.

Yes, but the style of teaching is completely different. I don't think the stuff I learned during my CELTA and use over here could be applied in Korea. My boyfriend hardly used any of the techniques he was taught, they wanted him to do it 'their way'.

I was really talking about hagwons, and you've pretty much said what I said.

Is that not the point I was making? Is that not the typical situation for Western teachers in Korea?

But do you understand why that poster took what you said as an insult? That is really the crux of the problem here. That poster did say that they are teaching in a Korean public school and you stated (even though you have no experience teaching in Korea) that it wasn't real teaching. To a person who is serious about teaching, that could be seen as a jab at them. I agree with a lot of what you said so you didn't have to quote me there

Also it seems that you are using TEFL Certs and CELTAs as synonyms although they are very different. The CELTA is a lot harder with more focus on teaching-practices where as the TEFL Certs can be hit or miss with a huge amount of online courses i.e. no practical experience. It is true that a lot of hagwons are desperate for teachers and will hire anybody without any qualifications (sometimes even some without a degree or here as a tourist).

In the end I would strongly advise prospectus teachers who are planning to come to Korea to get some form of cert before you come here, not for the qualifications but for some form of experience because coming to Korea is expensive and if you don't plan to finish your contract you will not get paid the full amount of your airplane ticket.

An interesting question for all - is it the Korean hagwon system that makes qualified teachers become unqualified because they could be told to play lots of games in class, forget about the grammar etc or is it the individuals themselves who want an easy life and just lose their professionalism?

IzzyWizzy

livinginkorea wrote: »

But do you understand why that poster took what you said as an insult? That is really the crux of the problem here. That poster did say that they are teaching in a Korean public school and you stated (even though you have no experience teaching in Korea) that it wasn't real teaching. To a person who is serious about teaching, that could be seen as a jab at them. I agree with a lot of what you said so you didn't have to quote me there

Yes I do, but I thought my point was sufficiently clear if you look at the reasoning I gave. And I wasn't talking about that poster's own job, I was talking about the general 'teaching in Korea' that is being discussed here. I am not pretending I have taught in Korea but 95% of people who teach over there seem to share my view and from what I've seen, teachers have far less independence and decision making than here in Europe. In every hagwon I visited, teachers were largely using Korean made coursebooks and following instructions from their bosses. In Europe I was basically 100% responsible for my classes, as in I wasn't even told when I should do speaking or when I should do writing, I had to design the entire syllabus. I found the system over there completely different and if I do go over there to teach, I'll now know not to expect it to be 'teaching' as I understand it here.

Also it seems that you are using TEFL Certs and CELTAs as synonyms although they are very different. The CELTA is a lot harder with more focus on teaching-practices where as the TEFL Certs can be hit or miss with a huge amount of online courses i.e. no practical experience. It is true that a lot of hagwons are desperate for teachers and will hire anybody without any qualifications (sometimes even some without a degree or here as a tourist).

To me, a TEFL Cert equals a CELT or CELTA cert as I haven't heard of another cert which is worth the paper it's written on. The i-to-i courses and the like are a total waste of time and money. I suppose if someone really needed a confidence boost and a little bit of teaching experience, it wouldn't hurt, but what can you learn on a weekend course, for example? If an employer required a 'TEFL cert', any TEFL cert, then it might be worth doing it for the piece of paper, but otherwise, I don't see how it's at all necessary. As I said, I think personality is much more important over there and I don't believe I was giving bad advice by stating that opinion. I'm not suggesting people should take the attitude that they don't need to know any grammar, but I wouldn't say an inside-out knowledge of how to teach grammar (and all the comprehension checking questions, error correction methods that go along with that) and loads of teaching experience are really necessary.

In the end I would strongly advise prospectus teachers who are planning to come to Korea to get some form of cert before you come here, not for the qualifications but for some form of experience because coming to Korea is expensive and if you don't plan to finish your contract you will not get paid the full amount of your airplane ticket.

But do you really think the cert is useful for knowing what it's really like to live and teach in Korea? I'm not contradicting you, I just find it surprising. I would advise people to spend their time on forums like this, finding out what it's like to live there, what the food it like, what the people are like, what type of accommodation to expect, how much stuff costs and so on. The people I know who hated Korea or ended up leaving did so because of a massive culture shock rather than because they couldn't handle the teaching.

An interesting question for all - is it the Korean hagwon system that makes qualified teachers become unqualified because they could be told to play lots of games in class, forget about the grammar etc or is it the individuals themselves who want an easy life and just lose their professionalism?

I don't think it's a matter of becoming unqualified. I think it's a matter of using different skills and focusing on different things. Some teachers are just crap - they don't know their grammar, they can't be bothered to learn or prepare - but many are just adapting to the circumstances, IMO. My boyfriend soon realised all the tricks he'd learned during the CELTA course were all but useless in Korea. He is excellent at teaching grammar, but he was required to play games and sing songs a lot of the time. He was required to do 'speaking tests' on a regular basis. He didn't have the freedom to teach what he wanted to teach and had to fit in with whatever the director wanted. I saw quite a few of his classes and they weren't bad, they just had absolutely nothing in common with what he'd done in Ireland and what he does now he's returned to teaching in Ireland. Some teachers are just lazy and do as little as they can get away with, but many (most?) are just doing what they've been hired to do.

EoinG

Hey livinginkorea,

Thanks to you and the other very active posters in the thread who have provided so much information so far. I notice you have mentioned university work in a few of your posts. I'm just wondering if those positions are strictly for people with M.A.s and lots of experience? I'm pretty much a beginner English teacher with only about a half of year of teaching experience. My undergrad is in psychology. Also, where would these posts be advertised, if at all? On Dave's or Worknplay, or should one apply directly to the university? I know my chances are probably pretty slim, but it's worth investigating. I'll basically do anything I can to avoid teaching children. I just much prefer teaching adults.

Thanks if you can help!

monosharp

EoinG wrote: »

I'll basically do anything I can to avoid teaching children. I just much prefer teaching adults.

Adult hagwon. http://www.jobpagoda.com/

Usually have to work split shifts, e.g. 9am - noon - break - 6pm - 9pm.

But the moneys usually much better for the hours you have to work/be there.

University jobs are possible but not easy to get and they only hire at certain times.

EoinG

Thanks for the response. I saw that earlier in the thread and it looks good... APART from the split shifts. But I know no job is perfect. They say you'll generally be onto a block schedule after about six months... I wonder if there are any other such companies with slightly better schedules?

DamienH

Hey all.
I've been over in Korea now for two weeks and I'm loving it. I just came in from a night out and saw a pm from cloneslad, I'm going to give a proper update of what I did tomorrow. I've got an unreal job. My schedule tomorrow gives me 4 classes free, that's like two and a half hours!!! I'll write something substantial when I've got my classes diaries corrected. Should be around 3pm irish time.

Thanks to cloneslad for even caring!

red_bairn

DamienH wrote: »

Hey all.
I've been over in Korea now for two weeks and I'm loving it. I just came in from a night out and saw a pm from cloneslad, I'm going to give a proper update of what I did tomorrow. I've got an unreal job. My schedule tomorrow gives me 4 classes free, that's like two and a half hours!!! I'll write something substantial when I've got my classes diaries corrected. Should be around 3pm irish time.

Thanks to cloneslad for even caring!

Sounds good. Where you staying? I'm leaving for S.K tomorrow. Will be in Nonsan city (2hrs south of Seoul).

DamienH

Righteo I'll give ye all an update.
Got the flight to heathrow on Tuesday (the day before the erruption) everything went off as planned. The flight to Seoul wasn't all that bad infairness. It was the first time I'd spent more than 4 hrs in a plane. You get given hot towels, free drinks and fed twice. The food was beautiful , bimbap if I recall, and the movies weren't all that bad (French Connection) Woke up when we were just landing and moved out into Seoul airport.

The flight was a bit delayed so I ended up getting a taxi to Gimpo airport, cost something like 80,00won ( 50ishEUR). The taxi driver was an absolute mentalist, he did the 50km in about 20 mins I think, maybe less. Anyway he went like the clappers , saw the dial get to 180 at one stage. No indicators either, he'd hit the hazards instead. Got to gimpo without a scratch and waited for my flight to Ulsan. It's a seriously crap place, nothing going on at all. Ulsan flight was fairly uneventful, met my manager at the airport. Turned out I was going to a motel for 3 days, first I knew about it so a bit of a dodgy start. Motel was a nice place but went to sleep looking out the window thinking "What the **** have I gotten myself into." Woke up thinking the same.

Medical in the morning. Electrogram, Cardiogram, Eyetest, Drugs test, Blood test, Blood pressure and a dental checkup. My blood pressure was crazy but I put that up to the fact that I hadn't gotten a proper nights sleep, only had about 40 mins (This went on for 4 nights, jet lag isn't fun. Valium is though ) Went to the school and spent the next two days shadowing the guy who's job I was having. He did a great job of explaining the teaching and just showing me the ropes in general, thanks a lot!

First weekend in Korea was a royaler, had an absolute ball. Pretty much anything goes on the drinking side of things and you can go to a restaurant in the morning before you go home for drinks/food. Soju is good cheap stuff, and the food is amazing.

Nicest stuff I've tasted has been Cham-Chi Kimbap: Seaweed rolls stuffed with rice, tuna, and all sorts of lovely little wonders. I haven't had a bad meal yet, that's two weeks down the line. I've been eating in a little korean place and three meals a day, for five days doesn't set me back 40EUR. Rice, vegetables and eggs mostly. Meat isn't really a staple here and much of the beef is poor quality. Chicken can be bought but they mostly eat pork. I went to a place last weekend and you just had to pay for the pork. Side dishes are brought out (waaaayyy too many to mention, all sorts of leaves aswell (sesame, lettuce, cabbage)) and the meat is cooked on a little barbecue pit in front of you. It's some of the tastiest stuff I've ever had. I was worried about using chopsticks but hunger is a good teacher, forks can be gotten in most places but you might aswell get used to the sticks.

My teaching day is easy, it flies by. No problems at all, you're given a lot of freedom. Just so you know the school I'm working for is pretty reputable and nobody I work with has been ****ed around. They treat us really well, so that's a big bonus.

Anyone got any questions fire away. I'll answer them whenever I can, sorry it's taken me so long to post. I've told everyone I can at home to get over here, I can easily save half of what I make a week and still have a load of fun.

Damien

P.S. officially my longest post on boards. I haven't checked for spelling mistakes either, I spend enough time doign that during the day

ARGINITE

Sounds like pretty normal driving for Koreans

The Korean barbecue can be pretty cool once your not to hungry. Watch out for the pig skin.

red_bairn

hey DamienH,

Whats the name of your school? I'm hoping this flight will be ok for me...I got hot/cold sweats on the Austrailian flight in 2008, hope this flight will be better though. I'll be fully excited when on the plane tomorrow, It hasn't fully hit me that I'm leaving.

DamienH

I'm working in ELC Daldong in Ulsan, it's the biggest school in the city. Good luck with the flight, I stayed up the night before so I was guaranteed to sleep. I can't sleep on planes at the best of times. Enjoy the slippers and the blankets!

livinginkorea

Great to hear that things are going well Damien! Be careful of kimbab in the summer. If it is left out on the counter for too long it will go bad so make sure they always make a fresh one for you. Try some mandu or duk mandu guk. It's got to be my favorite food. If you are not used to chopsticks you can always try dongas (pork cutlet) with comes with a knife and fork. The BBQ you had was probably sam-gyup-sal (small squarish portions of meat) or kalbi (strip of meat with a big bone at the end). If you like those then try kalbi-sal. Also try the kimchi on the grill too with the meat. Very tasty.

DamienH

Dongas is good stuff alright. There's a little korean place right next door to the school where I eat twice a day. I'm just working my way down through the menu, it's good ****. I heard about a Bibimbap type thing that's made with some meat in it aswell, do you know what it's called?

cloneslad

DamienH wrote: »

Dongas is good stuff alright. There's a little korean place right next door to the school where I eat twice a day. I'm just working my way down through the menu, it's good ****. I heard about a Bibimbap type thing that's made with some meat in it aswell, do you know what it's called?

chamchi bibimpap is tuna bibimbap (참치비빔밥). I hate tuna so I never eat it though. I have never eaten meat bibimbap, but it's possible you could ask for a bulgogi dop bap (불고기 덮밥 ) it's pretty nice but it's served on a plate rather than in a bowl.

I love bibimbap, but you gotta get some dol sot bibimbap (돌솥비빔밥) it comes in a hot stone bowl and tastes truely awesome.

Gotta agree with livinginkorea, mandu is great but gun mandu (군만두) is a brilliant way to add a little mix to your dinner, you can get a good portion for about 2000-2500won depending where you are eating.

It's nice to know you are having a good time. I'm enjoying my newest stint over here too. I gotta say, I think my boss and principal have become even more efficient at doing things. Yesterday my principal noticed my Ireland rugby jersey had an orange stain on the shoulder so she asked me if it was make up, trying to embarrass me, but I told it it was from the washing machine in the apartment. I asked her if there was anywhere I could get a cleaner for the washing machine as I walked to class. WhenI came out of that class there was a note on my desk telling me that a new washing machine was to be delivered at 10am this morning to replace the other one. It arrived at 10:08, but who am I to complain

DamienH

Nice, you've got a nice manager. Mine has been really accommodating aswell. He paid for my medical, got me a multi-entry stamp for free, did all my ARC stuff and sorted out my bank account. He even paid a bill this morning for me cause I asked him where I had to go, he was off to the bank anyway.

i've had the dol sot bibimbap aswell, I think she took pity on me because I was just getting the same thing most days. It came out sizzling and I was thinking "WTF is this." Tastes quality though. At the place where I eat there's an old woman who can speak broken english and she tells me little things about the menu most days. I was come back so I suppose it's good for her and good for me.

Cham-chi kimbap has yet to be beat though, little parcels of joy!

DamienH

Think I'm going to try mandu or gun mandu tmrw, any info on what it actually consists of? It's just a normal small Korean place so I presume it's just a common meal, along the lines of bibimbap?

edit: Just had a look at wiki, I know the little fellas alright. I recognise them from a picture. I think I'll get them tmrw and report back. Are they served with rice?

cloneslad

DamienH wrote: »

edit: Just had a look at wiki, I know the little fellas alright. I recognise them from a picture. I think I'll get them tmrw and report back. Are they served with rice?

No, they are usually served alone but with a soy sauce dip to have with them. I actually just had bibim mandu about an hour ago. It was just fried mandu with a mixed salad on the plate too. I had it with dol sot bibimbap. I was loading up on carbs for a half marathong tomorrow.

Princess Zelda

Hey guys, I finally signed a contact and am starting in Suwon at the end of June. It seems like a lovely area, close enough to Seoul. I was just wondering offhand if I can bring over electronics (i.e. laptop, xbox, ds) okay with the voltage difference, or would I be better off buying some over there?

Baruch

Irish electronics devices should be fine, I used mine with no problems.

cloneslad

Princess Zelda wrote: »

Hey guys, I finally signed a contact and am starting in Suwon at the end of June. It seems like a lovely area, close enough to Seoul. I was just wondering offhand if I can bring over electronics (i.e. laptop, xbox, ds) okay with the voltage difference, or would I be better off buying some over there?

bit of advoce for you. Don't makw the 10 minute or so trip from suwon to hwaseong city (it's where the university of suwon is) I'm here at the minute, just for one night and it really is the most boring town I have ever been too. Nothing to do in it, and I haven't got a clue where the hell i am. I have even been on google earth but I think the whole place has been developed since the airial shots where taken.

Hopefully I will see some nice places on my run in a few hours but tbh I will be happy leaving it and heading into seoul for a few days/

Princess Zelda

Thanks Cloneslad. I know Suwon itself is a biggish area, but it also comforting to know that Seoul is about an hour away on train.

Just checked Hwaseong City on Wikipedia. Seems Universal studios is opening there in 2012 if you fancied waiting around.

red_bairn

I'm here in Nonsan City (near to Daejon) and 2hrs+ from Seoul.

DamienH

How'd the run go cloneslad? Had the dol sot again, christ it's amazing. Mandu tmrw, the place I usually go to didn't have any when I asked.

cloneslad

DamienH wrote: »

How'd the run go cloneslad? Had the dol sot again, christ it's amazing. Mandu tmrw, the place I usually go to didn't have any when I asked.

There are only a few things I hope for when I take part in any race and two of those are that I don't have a dodgy stomach from the night before and that it's not too hot....both of these happened to me on wednesday.

I managed to get rid of most of the dodgy stomach problem in the bathroom about 30 minutes before the race (perhaps dolsot bibimbap with a small amount of kimchi is not the best food the night before a race).

This race was only a warm up race for a 22.5km mountain run I have coming up at the beginning of june, so I just wanted to get some more miles on my legs.

It was a hot hot hot morning, the race started as it should have (10:00) but I have been running at 6:00/7:00 in the morning to avoid the heat so I guess I wasn't very prepared. I was just hoping to do it in a solid enough time, somewhere between 1:45 and 2hours. with the hot weather I had decided to just stay under the two hours and not try push myself.

I did the first 5k in 22mins and realised i was going to fast and needed to slow down as the heat would hurt me later. dodgy stomach came back into play around the 11k mark when I hurled up a load of water / gatorade / banana / bagel, but I just did is as I ran. I often get sick when I run so I didn't really mind.

the race was very well organised, water sponges in three locations, water every 5k and there was a banana station too.

I ended up having to walk up a couple of the larger hills near the end as the heat was killing me and I could feel a blister on my little toe (something not to uncommon with running). Managed to finish the race in 1hour 55mins which I was happy with considering the weather, I don't think my stomach had any effect on my time.

My girlfriend told me I was the first foreigner across the finish line. I had passed quite a few americans along the way and was in a constant passing/ getting passed battle with two american girls and one guy the whole way through but managed to get to the end before them.

As for the blister??? I had a small wheely suitcase with me (was travelling around on my week off) and when I went to lift it up to go onto the bus to bring me into seoul, I managed to wheel over the blister and bust it. At least it was quick and painless.

DamienH

Fair play for finishing the thing, the sickness is never a good thing! How often do you compete?

cloneslad

DamienH wrote: »

Fair play for finishing the thing, the sickness is never a good thing! How often do you compete?

Thanks, I compete ( i say compete, i never compete for prizes, i'm not good enough )whenever there is an event on within travelling distance. I was injured for over a year with my patella - tendon surrounding my left knee so I still have to allow my knee time to recoup after some long runs.

I'm hoping to get this mountain one done in june, still carry on with some training through the summer, which could be hard in the humidity and then get the mileage back up agaun from september onwards because the weather down here never really gets to cold in winter, unlike seoul which hits -10 and lower, we actually only get -2 at the coldest.

DamienH

I know a few runners back home, all or which are addled with injuries at the moment. You wouldn't think it, as someone who has little interest, but I've heard it can be brutal on the joints. I think I'm only in for about -4 here at the coldest, although it's only 13 degrees here now and I find it cold. If this was in Ireland I'd be saying it's a grand old day

cavanmaniac

Damien, I was just wondering did you go with Tiger English as your recruiter in the end and how did you find them if so? I'm getting my act together for heading to Korea fairly soon and would appreciate it if you'd let me know how you got on recruiter-wise.

DamienH

Ya twas tiger english, can't recommend them highly enough. They got me a sweet job in Ulsan in a really good school. Get onto them!