beer league

oblivious

Wrassler's XXXX v Belfast Lager
Clotworthy Dobbin v MM Weiss
Guinness Foreign Extra v Temple Brau
Galway Hooker v Chiller
Beamish Stout v Hersbrucker
Beamish Red v O'Hara's Red
Brainblásta v Mao Lager
Porterhouse Red v TSB
Belfast Ale v Fosters
Shandon Stout v MM Plain
MM Rusty v Murphy's
Porterhouse Plain v Friar Weiss
Guinness Special Export v Oyster Stout
Guinness Extra Stout v Blarney Blonde
Curim v O'Hara's Stout (bottled)
O'Hara's Stout (draught) v Rebel Red

noby

Are you abstaining from a couple there Obliv.?

Porterhouse red v TSB was one or the tricky ones for me. I like a good red (rare as it is), and Porterhouse isn't a bad offering. I know, though, that the few times I get to a Porterhouse each year I'll always order a TSB. The beer is solid without being outstanding, but the way it's served deserves support.

BeerNut

noby wrote: »

Porterhouse isn't a bad offering.

I definitely think it used to be sweeter and more toffeeish. Last time I had it it was pretty damn bitter for the style.

noby wrote: »

the way it's served deserves support.

That was my rationale. If we were going to lose either one of our red ales, or what may be our only permanently-available cask ale, I'd go with the cask regardless of how it tastes.

noby

BeerNut wrote: »

I definitely think it used to be sweeter and more toffeeish. Last time I had it it was pretty damn bitter for the style.

Is that recently? My last pint was during the summer, and it definitely wasn't how I remembered it, but I put it down to the cold-nitro factor. I only had the one.

oblivious

noby wrote: »

Are you abstaining from a couple there Obliv.?

Guinness Special Export v Oyster Stout to hard to call for me

Porterhouse Red v TSB was very very close

BeerNut

noby wrote: »

Is that recently?

About April last year.

oblivious wrote: »

Guinness Special Export v Oyster Stout to hard to call for me

Wow. I'm surprised. I find it hard to find things not to like about SES.

oblivious

BeerNut wrote: »

About April last year.

Wow. I'm surprised. I find it hard to find things not to like about SES.

I do like it:P

noby

Final scores:

Wrassler's XXXX 8-0 Belfast Lager
Clotworthy Dobbin 8-0 MM Weiss
Guinness Foreign Extra 7-1 Temple Brau
Galway Hooker 8-0 Chiller
Beamish Stout 6-1 Hersbrucker
Beamish Red 1-7 O'Hara's Red
Brainblásta 8-0 Mao Lager
Porterhouse Red 0-8 TSB
Belfast Ale 8-0 Fosters
Shandon Stout 2-6 MM Plain
MM Rusty 3-5 Murphy's
Porterhouse Plain 5-3 Friar Weiss
Guinness Special Export 5-2 Oyster Stout
Guinness Extra Stout 6-2 Blarney Blonde
Curim 1-7 O'Hara's Stout (bottled)
O'Hara's Stout (draught) 6-2 Rebel Red

A few comprehensive victories there. Starting to get interesting now. Third round draw is below (again, generated randomly):

Clotworthy Dobbin v Guinness Special Export
MM Plain v Guinness Foreign Extra
O'Hara's Stout (draught) v Galway Hooker
Murphy's v Wrassler's XXXX
TSB v Belfast Ale
O'Hara's Stout (bottled) v Porterhouse Plain
Brainblásta v Beamish Stout
O'Hara's Red v Guinness Extra Stout

BeerNut

Clotworthy Dobbin v Guinness Special Export
The slurper v the sipper. Half-litre bottles FTW.

MM Plain v Guinness Foreign Extra
Good match. I think the complexity of MM Plain shades it, despite the nitro handicap.

O'Hara's Stout (draught) v Galway Hooker
Notta lotta hops left in the compo.

Murphy's v Wrassler's XXXX
Sweet v bitter. A little bit of flavour v holy flurking shlit, that's tasty.

TSB v Belfast Ale
Tough one. I'll take the smoothness of the Belfast, I think.

O'Hara's Stout (bottled) v Porterhouse Plain
Sticking to my guns by only counting the commercial nitro version of Plain. If I was including fresh Plain from the conditioning tank, we could stop the contest now.

Brainblásta v Beamish Stout
Brainblásta's gaw-jus. Beamish is dullsville.

O'Hara's Red v Guinness Extra Stout
Another good one: neither outstanding in their field, but I think of body of O'Hara's Red gives it the advantage.

oblivious

Clotworthy Dobbin v Guinness Special Export
MM Plain v Guinness Foreign Extra
O'Hara's Stout (draught) v Galway Hooker
Murphy's v Wrassler's XXXX
TSB v Belfast Ale
O'Hara's Stout (bottled) v Porterhouse Plain
Brainblásta v Beamish Stout
O'Hara's Red v Guinness Extra Stout

slayerking

Clotworthy Dobbin v Guinness Special Export
MM Plain v Guinness Foreign Extra
O'Hara's Stout (draught) v Galway Hooker
Murphy's v Wrassler's XXXX
TSB v Belfast Ale
O'Hara's Stout (bottled) v Porterhouse Plain
Brainblásta v Beamish Stout
O'Hara's Red v Guinness Extra Stout

knightmare

Clotworthy Dobbin v Guinness Special Export
MM Plain v Guinness Foreign Extra
O'Hara's Stout (draught) v Galway Hooker
Murphy's v Wrassler's XXXX
TSB v Belfast Ale
O'Hara's Stout (bottled) v Porterhouse Plain
Brainblásta v Beamish Stout
O'Hara's Red v Guinness Extra Stout

dereko1969

Clotworthy Dobbin v Guinness Special Export
MM Plain v Guinness Foreign Extra
O'Hara's Stout (draught) v Galway Hooker
Murphy's v Wrassler's XXXX
TSB v Belfast Ale
O'Hara's Stout (bottled) v Porterhouse Plain
Brainblásta v Beamish Stout
O'Hara's Red v Guinness Extra Stout

johnnyskeleton

BeerNut wrote: »

My mainstream stout of choice is O'Hara's, from the bottle, at room or cellar temperature -- lovely dry roasted barley character on a heavy body.

I tried O'Hara's there last week and it was nice - lighter than I expected with a nice aftertaste. The problem I had with it though was that I couldn't shake the feeling that I was drinking a cold cup of coffee (of the espresso topped up with water variety - you know the ones where they use boiling water and burn the coffee grounds) and to be honest, I'd much rather drink a cup of coffee.

I also had a Chimay blue which was excellent.

BeerNut

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

The problem I had with it though was that I couldn't shake the feeling that I was drinking a cold cup of coffee

That's the roasted barley flavour. It's a fairly intrinsic part of the flavour of proper stout. You might have better luck with a hoppy American one. Try Sierra Nevada Stout (the one with the yellow label) if you see it.

And maybe avoid actual coffee stouts...

noby

Clotworthy Dobbin v Guinness Special Export
MM Plain v Guinness Foreign Extra
O'Hara's Stout (draught) v Galway Hooker
Murphy's v Wrassler's XXXX
TSB v Belfast Ale
O'Hara's Stout (bottled) v Porterhouse Plain
Brainblásta v Beamish Stout
O'Hara's Red v Guinness Extra Stout


It's been a few years since I had a pint of XXXX, so I possibly should have abstained from that one, but I do like a pint of Murphy's.

johnnyskeleton

BeerNut wrote: »

That's the roasted barley flavour. It's a fairly intrinsic part of the flavour of proper stout. You might have better luck with a hoppy American one. Try Sierra Nevada Stout (the one with the yellow label) if you see it.

And maybe avoid actual coffee stouts...

As part of the taste it can be quite nice, but if the entire thing tastes like cold coffee it takes something away from it (I mean, why not just have a cup of coffee instead). I bought a bottle of O'hara's Celebration Stout as well so hopefully that will be better.

mayordenis

Clotworthy Dobbin v Guinness Special Export
MM Plain v Guinness Foreign Extra
O'Hara's Stout (draught) v Galway Hooker
Murphy's v Wrassler's XXXX
TSB v Belfast Ale
O'Hara's Stout (bottled) v Porterhouse Plain
Brainblásta v Beamish Stout
O'Hara's Red v Guinness Extra Stout

slayerking

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

As part of the taste it can be quite nice, but if the entire thing tastes like cold coffee it takes something away from it (I mean, why not just have a cup of coffee instead). I bought a bottle of O'hara's Celebration Stout as well so hopefully that will be better.

Their celebration stout is delicious (one of my favs) but it also has the coffee/dark chocolate flavour in it from the roast barley. Might not be your cup of tea either!!
Funny, the coffee/chocolate flavour is one of the reason I love a good stout so much!!

BeerNut

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I mean, why not just have a cup of coffee instead

If your coffee is coming out carbonated with a head on it, you might want to talk to the Council about your water supply.

slayerking wrote: »

Funny, the coffee/chocolate flavour is one of the reason I love a good stout so much!!

Yep, me too.

Saruman

slayerking wrote: »

Might not be your cup of tea either!!

Tea flavoured Beer... now there is an idea.... I could dip chocolate biscuits into it too.

oblivious

Saruman wrote: »

Tea flavoured Beer... now there is an idea.... I could dip chocolate biscuits into it too.

Green tea beer, Iki beer from Liefmans

BeerNut

oblivious wrote: »

Iki beer from Liefmans

Or a lovely tannic pint of bitter, like Theakston's.

johnnyskeleton

BeerNut wrote: »

If your coffee is coming out carbonated with a head on it, you might want to talk to the Council about your water supply.

Yep, me too.

O'Hara's doesn't have a head either, just a bit of froth, so it even looks like those coffees I mentioned. Also, I'll reserve my opinion on whether a stout should be fizzy or not.

I also resent the implication that O'Hara's is a good stout while guinness is a bad stout. They have different tastes which appeal to different people, neither is intrinsically better than the other.

I get the impression (and I'm open to correction) that there is a growing trend for people liking the more unusal or exclusive beers. That in itself is fine and I'd encourage people to try as many different beers as they can and see which ones they like. However, there is a tendency to spurn beers such as guinness or lager in general because they are common and this is unfortunate because while O'Hara's is nice, I much prefer guinness. I tried the Celebration Stout which tastes more like guinness and less like a cold cup of coffee, but is still missing that silky smooth taste which warms the cockles of my heart on a cold winter evening.

BeerNut

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I'll reserve my opinion on whether a stout should be fizzy or not.

Aroma is a big thing with stout -- all those lovely roast barley and hops flavours don't come out without fizz. A nitro head is effectively a lid keeping the aroma away from the drinker.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I also resent the implication that O'Hara's is a good stout while guinness is a bad stout. They have different tastes which appeal to different people, neither is intrinsically better than the other.

O'Hara's is made from barley malt, wheat, water, hops and yeast. It says so on the label. Guinness is made from... well, you tell me, because Diageo point blank refuse to tell us what they put in the stuff. It doesn't make it bad, it just makes it suspicious. What makes it bad, I think, is that it tastes of very very little.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

there is a tendency to spurn beers such as guinness or lager in general because they are common

Well that's not why I do it. I do it because mainstream (for want of a better word) Irish beers taste of very little. An awful lot of Irish beer drinkers view beer as a means to intoxication and nothing else, and the big brewers, and the importers, have long catered to this.

In a similar vein, wine conoisseurs don't spurn the wine you get in most pubs because it's common. It's because it's generally cheaply made, overpriced, and doesn't taste nice.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

that silky smooth taste which warms the cockles of my heart on a cold winter evening.

Can you expand on that for me a bit? To me, "silky smoothness" is a texture, not a flavour.

Out of interest, have you tried draught O'Hara's stout?

johnnyskeleton

BeerNut wrote: »

O'Hara's is made from barley malt, wheat, water, hops and yeast. It says so on the label. Guinness is made from... well, you tell me, because Diageo point blank refuse to tell us what they put in the stuff. It doesn't make it bad, it just makes it suspicious.

From this, I think there is a kernel of truth to what I said before about only drinking "Farmer Joe's drop o' the pure" or the like. Don't get me wrong, psychology has as much to do with a drink as any real taste does. I mean, I wonder whether Richard Hennessy is all that better than, for example, Martel Cordon Rubis, or whether Chateauneuf du Pape is a better than the cooking claret they sell in Dunnes for 6.99. The idea that what you are about to drink is excellent is a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy. So perhaps the mere fact that you go "Oh no, guinness, mass produced tasteless crap" before drinking it makes it taste so, and the fact that I say "Mmmm, I've been looking forward to drinking you for quite some time" equally increases my drinking experience. You could equally say that had I tasted O'Hara's stout randomly as opposed to in the context of this thread where it was being compared to guinness I would have enjoyed it more. I suppose what I'm getting at is that we have ideas in our own head about what we like and don't like, and they are not necessarily based on the actual taste.

BeerNut wrote: »

What makes it bad, I think, is that it tastes of very very little.

What exactly do you mean by this? Does guinness taste like water to you, or is it that you can't identify exactly what guinness tastes like? Again, a strong flavour isn't necessarily a good flavour.

BeerNut wrote: »

Well that's not why I do it. I do it because mainstream (for want of a better word) Irish beers taste of very little. An awful lot of Irish beer drinkers view beer as a means to intoxication and nothing else, and the big brewers, and the importers, have long catered to this.

In a similar vein, wine conoisseurs don't spurn the wine you get in most pubs because it's common. It's because it's generally cheaply made, overpriced, and doesn't taste nice.

To be honest, I've tasted unusual beers and expensive wines that were nasty, and had common beers and cheap wines that I've enjoyed. One of my favourite beers is a mass produced beer from Vienna, Ottakringer, and some of the nicest wines I've had are cheap South American wines. I get the impression that beer & wine connoisseurs might look down on me but equally I would look down on them for drinking overpriced plonk. So it really is a matter of taste and while it is interesting to hear what other people like and dislike, your beer is not better just because you can still taste it the following tuesday. I should add that I hate weissbier.

BeerNut wrote: »

Can you expand on that for me a bit? To me, "silky smoothness" is a texture, not a flavour.

Out of interest, have you tried draught O'Hara's stout?

Yes it is the texture rather than a flavour, it tastes creamy. I don't mean it has a cream flavour, I mean it sits on your tounge like cream.

No I haven't tried draught O'Hara's. Only ever saw it in Bull and Castle, and there are too many other good choices there.

mayordenis

look I don't think anyone is looking down there nose at you - or dismissing Guinness out of the hand - I've drank alot more Guinness than O'Hara's or any other stout in the market for that matter - I'm sure it's the same for pretty much everyone here - it is average in general. For me so is O'Hara's.
But your point about people having preconceptions is true - as it is in ever single facet of life - but I've never looked at a beer from the basis of which is fancier - I've drank the fanciest of the fancy ****.
No one is just pioneering "unusual beer" just high quality, great tasting beer.

BeerNut

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

we have ideas in our own head about what we like and don't like, and they are not necessarily based on the actual taste.

Have you tested this theory? I've done a blind tasting. I may not have been able to tell Guinness from Beamish, or Murphy's from O'Hara's, but I could definitely tell that the latter pair tasted of something and the former pair tasted of next-to-nothing. As did several other people in the same experiment.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

What exactly do you mean by this? Does guinness taste like water to you, or is it that you can't identify exactly what guinness tastes like?

Taste mostly happens in the nose. Our tongues distinguish the basic flavours, but all the nuance happens in the olefactory bulb. Draught Guinness is nitrogenated, which means the gas mostly stays in the beer. It's what makes it smooth. A side-effect is that it gives off very little aroma. Have a good sniff of your next pint: there's really not much there, because of the way the beer is processed and served. It's also served cold, which makes any drink taste of less. If I leave a mouthful of draught Guinness to warm up in my mouth, I get a little bit of roasted barley flavour, but very little. Otherwise -- no hoppiness, no sour yeast character like you get with Guinness Foreign Extra, for instance. You get a bit more roastiness on the palate and in the aroma with bottled Guinness, but toned down compared to a bottled stout like O'Hara's.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

a strong flavour isn't necessarily a good flavour.

Indeed not. I'm sitting with a Danish barley wine hopped with Simcoe alone and I'm really not enjoying it. But I like stout, I like stoutiness -- roasted barley notes on a heavy body. Guinness has neither of these in any enjoyable quantities.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I've tasted unusual beers and expensive wines that were nasty, and had common beers and cheap wines that I've enjoyed.

Me too. Hoegaarden is an industrially produced Belgian beer which I really enjoy. Spaten Helles is made by the same company in a different factory, sold here in Aldi, and is great. Diageo itself makes Guinness Special Export -- for sale in just about any street-corner Spar in Belgium -- cheap and common as muck, but absolutely delicious.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I get the impression that beer & wine connoisseurs might look down on me

On you:eek: That starts to sound like an inferiority complex, or reverse snobbery. I look down on Black Tower, Blue Nun, Guinness and Miller -- but only because of how they taste compared to other products of the same style.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

your beer is not better just because you can still taste it the following tuesday.

Similarly, your handmade Italian coupé is not better than my Dagenham-built Fiesta. Each to their own.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Yes it is the texture rather than a flavour, it tastes creamy. I don't mean it has a cream flavour, I mean it sits on your tounge like cream.

You're not talking about flavour here. You're talking about mouthfeel, texture. Diageo have put a lot of effort into the texture of Draught Guinness, and bugger all into its flavour. Guinness Mid-Strength and Guinness Red have exactly the same texture as well, but taste of even less. I think perhaps focus groups have said that how the beer sits on their tongues is more important than how it tastes. And that's cheaply accomplished with gas mixing rather than needing expensive ingredients. Cha-ching!

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

No I haven't tried draught O'Hara's. Only ever saw it in Bull and Castle, and there are too many other good choices there.

I'd recommend giving it a go, just by way of comparing nitro with nitro. Draught Guinness vs. bottled O'Hara's is more than a little apples-and-oranges.

(Edit: and by the above, I mean pretty much what mayordenis says rather more succinctly above.)

noby

Wow, I really let this one go. Anyway, back on track, here are the results from the last round:

Clotworthy Dobbin 7-0 Guinness Special Export
MM Plain 4-3 Guinness Foreign Extra
O'Hara's Stout (draught) 0-7 Galway Hooker
Murphy's 1-6 Wrassler's XXXX
TSB 6-1 Belfast Ale
O'Hara's Stout (bottled) 5-2 Porterhouse Plain
Brainblásta 7-0 Beamish Stout
O'Hara's Red 5-2 Guinness Extra Stout

All the macros falling at this round, surprisingly I must say. I thought at least one would get through.
Quarter final time, again randomised:



Wrassler's XXXX v O'Hara's Red
Galway Hooker v O'Hara's Stout (bottled)
MM Plain v TSB
Brainblásta v Clotworthy Dobbin


I promise not to leave it so long for the semi-finals!

BeerNut

Wrassler's XXXX v O'Hara's Red
(No contest when it comes to that big palate pounding taste.)

Galway Hooker v O'Hara's Stout (bottled)
(This would have been the final were it up to me. Texture is the decider.)

MM Plain v TSB
(During the hiatus I've started to appreciate TSB.)

Brainblásta v Clotworthy Dobbin
(Probably just because it's harder to get. And tastes like Cadbury's Fruit & Nut bars.)