Most Vitriolic Ever Attack on Teachers?

ytareh

By some character called Ed ???(couldnt even be bothered Googling to find his second name-he deserves that little respect -anyway he was a 'founding member' of University of Limerick)on Today FM this evening .He sounded as if he was going to have an asthmatic attack he was lambasting our profession so energetically .Im sure you can guess ...Pay cuts , shorter holidays ,reduced pension benefits ,oh and a massive cull of all these 'underperforming' teachers we hear so much about .One of our union heads was responding, he remained quite calm which is more than I would have done with the 'gentleman',but could perhaps have been more assertive .Still he did a (just) passable job of representing us .
Once again I must say it beggars belief that during the Boom years we were expected to sit in the background with our 'safe' steady low paying jobs while all around us zoomed ahead (literally in their BMWs and Mercs)And now WE are expected to pay dearly for chosing a 'sensible ' (????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!) career as the 'high rollers' fall behind.
Benchmarking (ie work harder for your pay cut -in real terms after inflation is taken into account...) ,I cant believe they are claiming that we hit some kind of massive jackpot with that ....oh yes and our 'FREE' pensions ...!!!???(Last I checked I was paying 6.5% of my salary for it )
The police , prison service etc wouldnt put up with half of what we do .Look at the Airport Police at the moment with their 'unofficial' action causing three hour queues at Customs .And it seems as if we can NEVER EVER again consider industrial action after the shambles of the last attempt....Scarey!

baglady

Well, I didn't hear this on the radio but it sounds appalling. I really agree with everything you've said above, as I'm sure everyone else here. It makes me angry! Sorry I can't contribute much as I didn't hear it but I feel your pain!!!

rainbowtrout

ytareh wrote: »

By some character called Ed ???(couldnt even be bothered Googling to find his second name-he deserves that little respect -anyway he was a 'founding member' of University of Limerick)on Today FM this evening .He sounded as if he was going to have an asthmatic attack he was lambasting our profession so energetically .Im sure you can guess ...Pay cuts , shorter holidays ,reduced pension benefits ,oh and a massive cull of all these 'underperforming' teachers we hear so much about .One of our union heads was responding, he remained quite calm which is more than I would have done with the 'gentleman',but could perhaps have been more assertive .Still he did a (just) passable job of representing us .
Once again I must say it beggars belief that during the Boom years we were expected to sit in the background with our 'safe' steady low paying jobs while all around us zoomed ahead (literally in their BMWs and Mercs)And now WE are expected to pay dearly for chosing a 'sensible ' (????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!) career as the 'high rollers' fall behind.
Benchmarking (ie work harder for your pay cut -in real terms after inflation is taken into account...) ,I cant believe they are claiming that we hit some kind of massive jackpot with that ....oh yes and our 'FREE' pensions ...!!!???(Last I checked I was paying 6.5% of my salary for it )
The police , prison service etc wouldnt put up with half of what we do .Look at the Airport Police at the moment with their 'unofficial' action causing three hour queues at Customs .And it seems as if we can NEVER EVER again consider industrial action after the shambles of the last attempt....Scarey!

Ed Walsh, he was the President of UL when I was there.

http://www.crann.tcd.ie/index/PeopleAndPartners/Management/edwalsh

He gave the same spiel on Questions and Answers the other night.

What really annoyed me was the fact that he was harping on about how loads of money was pumped into education and he couldn't see any results. He probably chooses to ignore areas like special needs and resource teaching where results are not always measured in terms of Leaving Cert points.

I also don't understand why teachers are the only public service workers that are continually being attacked in the media with regard to pay cuts etc :mad::mad::mad:

gaeilgegrinds

In fairness teachers did not become millionaires over the past few years, we should not be getting blasted like we are. I agree with certain cut-backs but we can not take ten and twenty percent cutbacks.

Trotter

We're being mown down because all of these "experts" hated their own teachers. Many were slapped with canes etc. Now, they're getting their own back.

The problem is, they dont realise that the classroom and teaching and teachers are a million miles away from some of the teachers they may have experienced.

The profession in Ireland has no respect. Thats where the teaching council comes in. It should be their job to fix it.

Anyone heard from them in the media lately apart from looking for my money? Didn't think so.

Teachers today are paying for the sins of a minority of teachers of past generations. The reputation of the few has stuck in the minds of many.

Its wrong, its unfair, and its so bloody frustrating.

implausible

No matter what we do, we can't seem to win the PR war. The public sector is now being demonised, for nothing more than doing our job.

Benchmarking came at a price, we paid it in extra hours and work and we 'modernised' and now they want to take it away again. We should take back what we've given - standardised school year, out of hours p-t meetings etc.

Delphi91

deemark wrote: »

..We should take back what we've given - standardised school year, out of hours p-t meetings etc.

And doing that would get teachers back into favour with everyone who isn't a teacher??? I don't think so.

implausible

Delphi91 wrote: »

And doing that would get teachers back into favour with everyone who isn't a teacher??? I don't think so.

As far as I am concerned, there is nothing we can do to get us back in favour with the general public, if indeed there was ever a time when we were.

When we marched about the cutbacks it was described as a 'cynical union exercise', even though it was the kids' conditions we were marching for.

We can't win, it's so bloody frustrating. If we object to this paycut (as any sane person would), we'll be branded as unpatriotic.

When we were told 'you don't go into teaching to be popular', I presumed that it was in relation to the kids!

littlebsci

Missed the item on the radio being mentioned this evening but like everyone else here I'd be apalled if we (along with other public servants) were forced to take a pay cut.

I'm fairly new to the profession so my salary isn't that large to start with (not that anyone's is!) but the thoughts of it being reduced to lower than I started on to begin with is just sickening!! I'd happily agree to a pay pause though, I can survive on what I have at the moment so I reckon that I personally can do the same for another couple of years.

Of course all this talk of salary only really applies providing I have a job in Sept...... :rolleyes:

Oh and on a similar note I'm completely fed up of even my friends (non public sector of course) asking what the big deal is........"everyone" in the private sector is being affected (apparently) so why shouldn't we bear the brunt of the present situation too??!!?? Naturally I think we all have to share some of the burden but sweeping statements like that get noone anywhere!!

spurious

I ignore all the teacher bashing. Just because they had a bad experience with a teacher and have let it fester all their life and get pleasure at 'fighting back' now, I'm not going to entertain them, as I don't entertain nonsense from particular kids at work.

I'm sick of all the moaning about the economy too. You'd think we'd never seen a recession before. I spent the first ten years of my career living out of one room, with no heating, no washing machine, no proper cooker. I heard a younger colleague recently complain he could only afford to go out once a week since the recession. Pathetic - really.

OK, there's the rant, I'm away to bed. Friday cometh.

Trotter

Bring it on.. eth..

parsi

ytareh wrote: »

By some character called Ed ???(couldnt even be bothered Googling to find his second name-he deserves that little respect -anyway he was a 'founding member' of University of Limerick)

I'm surprised that a teacher would be ignorant of Ed Walsh. He was the first President of NIHE (Limerick), fought hard to establish it and fought even harder to get it to University Status. UL also took in Thomond (Sweaties & Chippies) and Mary I.

Ed has always been fairly right-wing. Probably not helped by the fact that he had to scour the place for funding when the traditional (Senate seated) Universities were getting fed by Government.

I respect the man for his sterling work in UL. Like many others I didn't agree with his politics but he has always stood by his opinions and isn't just jumping on the curent bandwagon.

Sir Humphrey

Now that the private sector has gone belly up as a capitalist economy is conditioned to do every so often the viciousness of the attacks of the public sector generally is quite startling.

I am not a teacher but I don't know of many teachers who were buying gross monstrous cars during the boom years, buying new kitchens for the hell of it, or trying to collect houses or apartments in places they couldn't find on the map................and in order to do do, taking on extraordinary loans that they would not be able to afford if anything went wrong.

I don't think teachers are the problem.

kiwikid

Sir Humphrey wrote: »

I am not a teacher but I don't know of many teachers who were buying gross monstrous cars during the boom years, buying new kitchens for the hell of it, or trying to collect houses or apartments in places they couldn't find on the map................and in order to do do, taking on extraordinary loans that they would not be able to afford if anything went wrong.

I don't think teachers are the problem.

Ah sure the same proportion of teachers as any other profession were the twits who released equity, bought cars they will be still be paying for in a few years time... especially teachers and state employees because they had the €€ guarantee to pay off the 10 year HP. I know a few "shapers" who must be crippled - brand new 08 Jan A4 and 07 jeep yoke and are probably blaming the banks for giving it to them.

TheDriver

We're not going to win any media battles at all and am totally sick of being lambasted by everyone I know! My free pension 30 years away really means the world to me at the moment, oh wait how much does it cost again........
People don't realise we pay for everything outselves: Xmas parties, expenses etc etc, no freebies or perks and of course we are ruining the country, ruining it! Stand up all my colleagues and admit its all our fault!!! What a load of Sh*te!
At end of it all, sticks and stones etc....

kiwikid

TheDriver wrote: »

We're not going to win any media battles at all and am totally sick of being lambasted by everyone I know! My free pension 30 years away really means the world to me at the moment, oh wait how much does it cost again........
People don't realise we pay for everything outselves: Xmas parties, expenses etc etc, no freebies or perks and of course we are ruining the country, ruining it! Stand up all my colleagues and admit its all our fault!!! What a load of Sh*te!
At end of it all, sticks and stones etc....

yor free pension costs more than double what you pay into it and people do realise ye pay for everything yourselves same as the majority of people - i work in private sector and get it taken from my wages whether i partake in the "social club" nights out or not. ye are no different to any other public sector group that folks like Ed whatshisface was calling for salary cuts, he named many - teachers have been the group to come out and shout victimisation - gardai, nurses, doctors are as quiet as mice at the moment. just a thought.

TheDriver

kiwikid wrote: »

Ah sure the same proportion of teachers as any other profession were the twits who released equity, bought cars they will be still be paying for in a few years time... especially teachers and state employees because they had the €€ guarantee to pay off the 10 year HP. I know a few "shapers" who must be crippled - brand new 08 Jan A4 and 07 jeep yoke and are probably blaming the banks for giving it to them.

TBH, most banks I went into didn't care too much about being a teacher, in fact they noted that I wouldn't be getting bonus or high flying pay rises. They gave loans to everyone whether you had much guarantees or not!
Brand new jeeps? Think its a lot lot more than teachers getting big cars, you are more than welcome to view our staff car park and note nothing too major sitting out there

freire

kiwikid wrote: »

teachers have been the group to come out and shout victimisation - gardai, nurses, doctors are as quiet as mice at the moment. just a thought.

This really is peachy - teachers are shouting victimisation eh? That's not really the case now if you care to read the thread a little more carefully. Ed (teachers are not worth paying) Walsh did indeed name other public sector workers and PJ Stone (Garda rep) came out very strongly last week asserting his association's standpoint that they would, under no circumstances, even comtemplate a pay cut or freeze, and proper order. The INO (that's nurses buster) came out this morning again and stated they would not enter into talks with the government on any issue relating to pay cuts/freezes, and proper order.

You private sector people who worship at the altar of cute-hoorists like Seanie Pat Fitzpatrick - whose bank we are now bailing out and whose greedy greasy till fumbling and sense of entitlement may very well be the catalyst for the entire implosion of the economy- make me laugh. Stop trying to mug my profession, thanks.

kiwikid

freire wrote: »

You private sector people who worship at the altar of cute-hoorists like Seanie Pat Fitzpatrick - whose bank we are now bailing out and whose greedy greasy till fumbling and sense of entitlement may very well be the catalyst for the entire implosion of the economy- make me laugh. Stop trying to mug my profession, thanks.

didn't you know that romantic Ireland is dead? hey don't knock the bank officials they are civil servants now are they not? The only sector with a self of entitlement are those who get paid by the state the rest of us get benefits. think about it.
mugging my profession - cheesy catch phrase there mate

Toto Wolfcastle

There's no point in even arguing in favour of teachers because public support has always been low.

I, for instance, could argue that a pay cut is an idiotic idea seeing as a lot of teachers are giving up even more time unpaid to allow sports, etc to go on. In fact, later in the year it is possibly that the extra time will be given to making sure students don't have to be sent home because they have no teacher.

I could argue that, and it would be a valid argument, but it will change nothing.

As far as many people are concerned, I, like all teachers, am sitting on a small fortune, drive an expensive car, and do very little to afford all this.

None of that is true.

freire

kiwikid wrote: »

:DThe only sector with a self of entitlement are those who get paid by the state the rest of us get benefits. think about it.
mugging my profession - cheesy catch phrase there mate

I've tried to decipher what exactly you're going on about here 'mate' but try as I might I'm still at a loss. If you mean I'll be paying your benefits then yeah I guess so. As for the bank officials being civil servants, er, I don't think so 'mate'. Fitzpatrick had borrowed internally to the tune of over 100 million, this was possibly illegal and so the fraud squad is making enquiries, though if you had your way there would be no state run police to investigate, just a privately sponsored junta supportive of your ideologies. As for the cheesy catchphrase (1 word) - well going forward I will endeavour to step up to the plate and push the envelope in blue sky thinking, outside the box - mustn't let those middle management types have the monopoly on ill-defined slackjawed inanities. Cheers mate.

littlebsci

freire wrote: »

I've tried to decipher what exactly you're going on about here 'mate' but try as I might I'm still at a loss. If you mean I'll be paying your benefits then yeah I guess so. As for the bank officials being civil servants, er, I don't think so 'mate'. Fitzpatrick had borrowed internally to the tune of over 100 million, this was possibly illegal and so the fraud squad is making enquiries, though if you had your way there would be no state run police to investigate, just a privately sponsored junta supportive of your ideologies. As for the cheesy catchphrase (1 word) - well going forward I will endeavour to step up to the plate and push the envelope in blue sky thinking, outside the box - mustn't let those middle management types have the monopoly on ill-defined slackjawed inanities. Cheers mate.

+1

Good stuff

Sir Humphrey

kiwikid wrote: »

hey don't knock the bank officials they are civil servants now are they not?

This is the downside of internet discussion boards - people like this who can't tell the difference between the private and public sectors get to pontificate regardless of their lack of knowledge.

I had a feeling that the comments about 'pinsins' was hackneyed stuff picked up off the radio but I didn't think the ill-informedness ran so deep.

You are definitely not what the private sector cliché merchants would call 'best in class'!

MathsManiac

I believe (s)he meant that, since the state now owns Anglo-Irish, they're civil servants.

Sir Humphrey

MathsManiac wrote: »

I believe (s)he meant that, since the state now owns Anglo-Irish, they're civil servants.

He should writes what he means then. He is wrong anyway. Anglo-Irish bank employees have the same conditions of employment today as they ever had.

Toto Wolfcastle

Alrighty guys, can we stick to the topic please? Cheers.

kiwikid

janeybabe wrote: »

As far as many people are concerned, I, like all teachers, am sitting on a small fortune, drive an expensive car, and do very little to afford all this.
None of that is true.

enough with the woe is me please!!:D I initially responded to the no teacher i know drives big cars. I know plenty and why shouldn't they - the wages are not poor, and banks were throwing money at many dimwits with €€ in their eyes and a stable job to pay it back (teachers are not exclusively old before their time, wise beyond their years although some try desperately to sound it, and so can fall into this category!). Nurses, gardai and teachers do drive fine big cars same as a heck of a lot of others and maybe they just married well or maybe they do a few grinds a week to pay the HP who knows. its the poor mouth that i was responding to. Now if that person was saying they were out of work trying to get subbing but couldn't (because a retired principal was getting the call first..) and she couldn't afford the repayments on her car - that i could sympathize with (maybe even empathize).

Sir GottheHump: Anglo (and you were clever they do have the same terms- well done) but their employer has now changed.

Feire - thanks for the laugh, it was out loud this morning, but i guess you have experienced first hand this jargon or BS talk as we say in industry. perhaps not.

The country is not being run well, nobody has faith in us as an economy and companies are closing down all over, dole queues are swelling, emigration is a non-option and benchmarking was a joke.

Who do you think is going to pay for your wages and entitlements from here on in ? I guess you are not a math teacher so I think its apt that you wax lyrical and quote from Soundings because my lovelies you are living in the past if you think pay cuts are not an option.

TheDriver

kiwikid wrote: »

banks were throwing money at many dimwits with €€ in their eyes and a stable job to pay it back .

Why even post in the teachers forum if you have such despise for us as a profession calling us names unnecessarily? I assume you hated your time in school and your teachers. Always love when the occasional teacher basher starts, seems to be the done thing even on boards but if it makes ye feel better .........
Now wheres my dimwit hat..........

Sir Humphrey

kiwikid wrote: »

Sir GottheHump: Anglo (and you were clever they do have the same terms- well done) but their employer has now changed.

When then did you imply that their terms had changed? Or do you just write the first thing that comes into your head?

Tom Dunne

kiwikid wrote: »

enough with the woe is me please!!:D I initially responded to the no teacher i know drives big cars. I know plenty and why shouldn't they - the wages are not poor, and banks were throwing money at many dimwits with €€ in their eyes and a stable job to pay it back (teachers are not exclusively old before their time, wise beyond their years although some try desperately to sound it, and so can fall into this category!). Nurses, gardai and teachers do drive fine big cars same as a heck of a lot of others and maybe they just married well or maybe they do a few grinds a week to pay the HP who knows. its the poor mouth that i was responding to. Now if that person was saying they were out of work trying to get subbing but couldn't (because a retired principal was getting the call first..) and she couldn't afford the repayments on her car - that i could sympathize with (maybe even empathize).

Sir GottheHump: Anglo (and you were clever they do have the same terms- well done) but their employer has now changed.

Feire - thanks for the laugh, it was out loud this morning, but i guess you have experienced first hand this jargon or BS talk as we say in industry. perhaps not.

The country is not being run well, nobody has faith in us as an economy and companies are closing down all over, dole queues are swelling, emigration is a non-option and benchmarking was a joke.

Who do you think is going to pay for your wages and entitlements from here on in ? I guess you are not a math teacher so I think its apt that you wax lyrical and quote from Soundings because my lovelies you are living in the past if you think pay cuts are not an option.

I'll cut to the chase here - I'm not a teacher, I am not a public servant and I certainly don't drive a big car.

So, I don't have any vested interest when I say lose the generalisations.

There are detracting from your points and undermining any argument you might have. If you want to rant about the state of the economy/government/society in general, take it elsewhere. If you want to discuss issues concerning teaching and the teaching profession, fire ahead, but please do so with verifiable statistics, not "facts" you got down the pub from a friend of a friend.

kiwikid

dimwits with €€ in their eyes took out loans and came from all professions and none because responsible lending was non-existent thats what i meant. It was not a dig, i just pointed out that both state and private employees drive big cars on credit or bought outright - i do not believe that teachers don't because they were on such poor salaries or were more responsible as the former was indicated by yourself and others.
Try not to take everything so personally please. I do not hate teachers. I happen to have been one in a former life!

the terms and conditions of employment that Anglo staff remain the same
for the moment apart from the glaringly obvious fact that their employer has now changed. you seem to think that is insignificant. it is not.