"Nothing is safe as sweeping cuts loom"

eroo

How would the Gardai online here feel if recruitment was frozen for 1-2 years?

Geri Boyle

Incidentally I did work in the construction industry. Yes I am looking to join the Gardai but as I said I am not suggesting that the public sector take the hit. What I am suggesting is that this recession is not in people's heads, people are losing their jobs/ taking drastic paycuts/ having their hours cut. You may not know many of these people but I certainly do and to suggest it's not happening is insulting. Take a stroll down Grafton St. and check out the closing down sales. Its getting worse by the day.

djtechnics1210

They should take 5% of everyone thats working i think, why just public sector.
AGS have already not been given one increment we were due and you can bet that we wont get the next one thats due to us either, and we also get hit with a 2% levy on our overtime/allowance cheque.
They should not be taking money from the people that are at the frontline.
Will doctors be taking a 5% pay hit. I doubt it
Will management in AGS be taking a 5% hit. I doubt it
Will our wonderful government be taking a 5% pay hit. I definitely doubt it.
Why are the banks/financial institutes not getting hit with any pay reductions... after all they did attribute to the country getting into this mess.

djtechnics1210

eroo wrote: »

How would the Gardai online here feel if recruitment was frozen for 1-2 years?

With nearly all members that reach 30 years service, retiring as soon as they can. A 2 year recruitment freeze would be a disaster. The numbers would fall quickly as there would be no replacements for retiring members.
Back when i was attested... my intake put a total of 2 extra gardai into AGS.
The rest of my intake filled the gap left by retirements/resignations etc

the_syco

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

I assume the private sector will be taking a pay decrease as well?

You assume correctly. They'll also be let go in their hundreds, as the companies move to cheaper countries, such as Poland.

And unlike last time, we can't reduce the value of the pound euro.

mikemac

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

Why are the banks/financial institutes not getting hit with any pay reductions... after all they did attribute to the country getting into this mess.

Banking staff are getting hit, often over 10% in salary.
The banking executives feck up and the junior staff get a paycut instead. Yes it goes on, I include myself.
People before Profit were organized protests before Christmas and their volunteers screaming outrage at banking staff, wtf did I do wrong??

Want another example? In 2007, Bank of Ireland made a profit of 600 million euro in 6 months and decided to slash the employees pension plans from Defined Benefit to Defined Contribution.

Would your union accept that without questioning? Is the "banker" who lodges your cheque in your local branch responsible for all the wrongdoings and a paycut deserved?
I don't blame clerical staff in the Civil Service for the recession and I want to see frontline Emergency Service staff well paid and equipped with the tools and resources that they need. How about a balance?

We've have countless public sector bashing threads on boards but this one is no better and realy mostly to Karlitosway1978, this is a private sector bashing thread and it's not better

Word to the wise:
People working in IT are not dot com millionaires and more likely to be helpdesk monkeys
Plently of people got rich in construction but not every private sector worker. In fact most got poorer as they paid too much on purchase price and ripped off by tradesmen.
Hey, watch Millionaire Traders on BBC last night. It doesn't happen in Ireland (well, only on a tiny scale) so most banking staff are not top traders in the "city" or executives.

Eru

The figures speak for themselves. They arent my figures but the cso's one. Before everyone jumps and throws hissy fits at me, read what I said and what Im saying please.

Not once have I suggested theres hasnt been losses and I agreed that unemployment is increasing. My point is that the numbers are well within GLOBAL norms and perhaps when all the other figures and calculations are included, a little lower. Very few countries are experiencing an employment increase, they are the rarities not the norm. This recession is not an Irish recession, its a global one.

If you disagree with my view thats fine but if your going to post that Im wrong, prove it with a little more than "I know what I know" because that sure as hell wouldnt be accepted coming from a Garda.

Mike,
I dont really see why you think Im bashing the private sector. Im not condeming all private sector workers nor have I suggested that it should be the private sector taking a pay cut anymore than the public but you tell me, which sector has had the biggest effect on our economy? I would suggest its the construction and banking sectors which are both private. They had a large effect on the boom and its fall with the problems in both being well documented. My point concerning construction workers still stands. Its common knowledge that during the boom it was a very lucrative area to be in and we didnt have mass immigration into that sector by chance nor did we see a special 'builders' tax. Im not suggesting we should have, merely pointing out the double standards of those that are now trying to blame public sector workers and make us pay extra.

The simple reality of all this is Im not rich as probable most users here arent. I am the only income in my home, have bills and a mortgage just like you and again, most people so when I hear this 5% being thrown around and idiots actually agreeing with it my blood boil. Why? Because its a financial hit I really cant take on top of what AGS is already being hit with.

mikemac

Btw, the quote in your sig is from George Orwell and not Winston Churchill

Well any source I've checked stated this, I could be wrong but then are a hell of lot of radio podcasts and internet sites

Eru

mikemac wrote: »

Btw, the quote in your sig is from George Orwell and not Winston Churchill

Well any source I've checked stated this, I could be wrong but then are a hell of lot of radio podcasts and internet sites

Little of topic but I have seen it attributed to both. I will asume then that you agree with my last post?

Geri Boyle

I may not be firing cso or esri statistics at you, but if you want to hang your hat on statistics then you have to ask yourself if a 70% increase in unemployment in ONE year with visable signs of a worsening trend spreading across various sectors of the economy is not worrying for you? All I'm doing is giving my first hand account of the situation. I would have thought that was extremely valuable info for a Garda, no?
For this conversation I dont see the relevance of it being global and not just Irish tbh.

FGR

In fairness I have seen the increase in dole queues at the office near my own district. That is to say..there's many more faces than the usual heads you'd see there.

I'm not bashing the private sector; nor do I want to. If anything I blame this pay cut matter on the media. I've already mentioned it on another thread but I can recall Claire Byrne on Newstalk having Michael O'Leary on the Line. She was demanding that the Public Sector accepts a massive paycut and to deal with it as it's for the good of the country. It got to the stage where Michael O'Leary; the man who cannot stand the public sector; had to calm things down and say that he did not agree with pay cuts and to focus on the continuing effort in lowering numbers and increasing productivity instead.

And what does the Government do when they hear these things? They bow to the loudest voice (which could easily be the minority). I have to hold my hat to the unions in the Public Sector for saying they have no problem with the pay freeze as it's needed..but I also agree with them saying that they'll resist pay cuts. A colleague of mine whose home in Westmeath is taking up a large portion of his income. His other half was laid off recently so that 5% paycut is the difference between having a warm home and stress about keeping up payments/household bills. Reducing our pay won't save the economy. If anything I'd rather a 3% increase in standard income tax. Everyone pays and much more money is to be made by the state.

I wonder have the cast of the morning show on Newstalk taken a paycut..

met-man

We've been quite lucky here in retrospect. The Fed recently hammered out a 3-year pay deal for us that guarantees us a pay-rise for the next 3 years. This initially was not viewed as a good move on the part of the Fed, but with more and more people being made redundant here, I'm not complaining. We're now in a privileged position wherein our job is recession proof.

As regards the reality of people losing their jobs? This is evident here, on a daily basis. The suicide attempt I spent yesterday dealing with was a another victim of redundancy from the financial sector.

Eru

Blue Belle wrote: »

if you want to hang your hat on statistics then you have to ask yourself if a 70% increase in unemployment in ONE year with visable signs of a worsening trend spreading across various sectors of the economy is not worrying for you?

Worrying to me? Not for my job personally, I work in a secure and needed occupation, I do worry about my spouse that has so far failed to find work since leaving college. Its more worrying to those losing their jobs but I didnt see builders worried about Gardai or anyone else when they were milking it so I dont see why Im supposed to be obliged to them now. However its not 70%. Even in the boom times the figures where not as low as you seem to think. Where did you get 70% from?

Blue Belle wrote: »

All I'm doing is giving my first hand account of the situation. I would have thought that was extremely valuable info for a Garda, no?

No your not, your relying on hearsay, figures plucked from thin air and emotion which is of no use to Gardai. I fail to see how it could be nor how it reflects on this discussion.

Blue Belle wrote: »

For this conversation I dont see the relevance of it being global and not just Irish tbh.

Well perhaps you should look at the bigger picture then. A global recession is beyond our little countries control and we are pretty much powerless to deal with it or avoid it. Thats the point Im making, this isnt just Ireland falling apart. Were effected by whats happening in the US, Asia and central europe of which we can do nothing about

Geri Boyle

Put on Prime Time. RTE 1 just started

Eru

Blue Belle wrote: »

Put on Prime Time. RTE 1 just started

At 4am!!!!!!

Seriously, I dont watch that anymore considering the quality and bias of their shows

Geri Boyle

Im not plucking figures the 70% figure was from breaking News a couple of wks ago. Im not interested in bickering with you but quite frankly if you think an 8.1bn tax deficit is not going to affect you (even if its undeserved) youre seriously mistaken. As for the relevance of it being global, look at the title of the thread, youre off topic. As for my experience. Take it or leave it, believe me or dont. Its irrelevant tbh. Thats all I have to say on the matter im not getting sucked into a row.

TheNog

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Blue Belle wrote: »

Ok ye two take it easy please. A little empathy shown from either both of ye will go a long way.

Personaly I have seen both sides of your story to some extent. I was unemployed for nearly a year before the boom so I know what its like. The lack of funds, the desperation and the feeling of failure.

I also know what it was like when I joined the Gardai during the boom where people slagged me off for the low wages and the mentality of "I wouldnt do that job if I was paid a million euro".

We can have a decent discussion about current affairs without bringing personal feelings into it. It is hard I know but it can be done.

Nog

deadwood

My property portfolio has really taken a hit.

Thank God I have the safety net of the pensionable job to help compensate for the reduction in value of all those houses in Rathmines us guards own.

petergfiffin

The ESRI stats can be found at :http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/labour_market/current/qnhs.pdf which show about a 67% increase in unemployment.

The problem I have with pay in the Public/Civil service is more with the unions than with anybody in them, when times are good the unions want pay for civil servants because the private sector is doing well but in times like this they don't want to talk about pay cuts when the very people they use as their benchmark are very often unemployed or taking paycuts....but hey...that's unions. I don't see how the Government can now complain about public sector pay when they were the ones who agreed to it even though I remember the warnings at the time, if they wanted to cut public service numbers they should have done it at a time when they could have given people a decent redundancy and there were jobs for people to go to, personally I'm in favour of keeping public service numbers the same but changing the distribution to be more at the front line i.e. reduce the number of administrators but increase the number of nurses, teachers & Guards

The real fear I have with all these cutbacks is not so much around pay as for the operational budgets to run departments. I heard a senior Guard on the radio this morning telling a story about a murder case in the 80s where they basically had to cut down on the investigation because they couldn't pay the overtime which obviously extended how long it took to solve. Given the problems we have with gangland crime are we going to see all these new specialist units like the new armed units being cut back? Given that we could barely keep our heads above water in many areas when we were flush with money, what will happen now?