"Nothing is safe as sweeping cuts loom"

Sierra Oscar

So, the government is to make sweeping cuts in order to shore up the public finances. The HSE is already planning to scrap A & E services in both Nenagh and Ennis.

Are more cuts coming to AGS? Will frontline policing get hit? I am guessing that the recently announced policing plan for 2009 will have some planned programmes / roll outs curtailed.

FGR

The easy targets will be hit, imo -

Another delay to Tetra; a massive postponement to the procurement of Pepper Spray. Overtime will also be exceptionally cut so the result? Far fewer Gardai on the streets.

brown bear

ForegoneReality wrote: »

The easy targets will be hit, imo -

Another delay to Tetra; a massive postponement to the procurement of Pepper Spray. Overtime will also be exceptionally cut so the result? Far fewer Gardai on the streets.

OT Will Be gone, ITS ALL BUT A DISTANT MEMORY

Tango Alpha 51

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

So, the government is to make sweeping cuts in order to shore up the public finances. The HSE is already planning to scrap A & E services in both Nenagh and Ennis.

And how pray tell are we on the ground supposed to deal with the above. We don't have the manpower due to cutbacks, non recruiting over the years, bad management on both a local & national level etc. All that's going to happen is that the pt will suffer & the paramedics on the ground will get burnt out from dealing with the additional workload.:mad::mad:

TheNog

I wonder what cuts have been made within the higher elements of any emergency service?

It is evident that the frontlines have certainly been affected.

Eru

I predict here and now that all our salaries will be cut by some level. They are asking for 5% so Im going to guess that 2 or 3% is what will happen. They will lower numbers through retirements ans we will go back to 12000 with all civilian staff being replaced by members (again).

The same for DFB, Army, nurses and prisons. The prisons are already being asked to amend their overtime agreement and Im sure DFB, nurses and Army will be asked for various things through their own heads.

You know whats funny about this? I hear about mass unemployment in the private sector but Im not seeing any bank or office staff getting sacked or having their incomes reduced. Its all in the construction and labour markets (my brother is a sparks and has been let go) so why are we expected to take cuts when our increases never matched the private sector to begin with and our abilities are still in demand? I dont remember a builder offering up part of his wages for my benefit!

In fact, **** it. Im keeping my wages, I work hard, Im needed, I have bills to pay and I have had to listen to smug IT, construction and legal people tell me how much more they earn for the past ten years.:mad:

brown bear

yep 5% cut for the guards, sniff sniff, is that man flu, no its blue flu i feel

the_syco

Erm, prison staff, wtf? Seriously? They need more staff in the over crowded prisons, and unless they take on a few hundred more staff, less overtime is shooting themselves in the foot. As for nurses, etc, most do a lot of overtime, otherwise the people coming in would be f**ked. I'd say most people get injured outside of the 9-5 hours. As for the army, yeah, what are they thinking, that war stops at 5pm? Don't know who the DFB are.

eroo

the_syco wrote: »

As for the army, yeah, what are they thinking, that war stops at 5pm?

What?

Sierra Oscar

buzzman wrote: »

And how pray tell are we on the ground supposed to deal with the above. We don't have the manpower due to cutbacks, non recruiting over the years, bad management on both a local & national level etc. All that's going to happen is that the pt will suffer & the paramedics on the ground will get burnt out from dealing with the additional workload.:mad::mad:

I do know that the closure of the A&E services will greatly affect the Mid-West. They expect the out of hours GP services to deal with people who go through the A&E, which is absolutely rubbish. Local GP out of hours services have seen attendance spike over the last few years, yet no pressure is being taken off the A&E units – GP out of hours services cannot do X-Rays, and if someone has a heart attack then they simply must be admitted to A&E.

To suggest that GP out of hour’s services will be able to take the load when the A&E units close is absolutely ridiculous. The Regional Hospital in Limerick will be overcrowded, especially at weekends – it already is.

I don’t see how they expect the Regional Hospital in Limerick to deal with people from all of Clare, North Tipperary and County Limerick.

Relevant

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

You know whats funny about this? I hear about mass unemployment in the private sector but Im not seeing any bank or office staff getting sacked or having their incomes reduced.

That is definitely not the case. There is a steady flow of redundancies and contracts not being renewed. You just dont hear about it because its not one large amount at once, but its certainly happening every week

ForegoneReality

ForegoneReality wrote: »

The easy targets will be hit, imo -

Another delay to Tetra

I'm in a DMR station and we have dates for Tetra set's to be installed in the patrol cars within the next month so hopefully that project isn't going to be cut.

mikemac

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

You know whats funny about this? I hear about mass unemployment in the private sector but Im not seeing any bank or office staff getting sacked or having their incomes reduced.

Think again.
Maybe 10 people from one office and maybe 15 from another, replicate in every town and city in the country and it adds up. Not headline news but it sure happens

FBD Insurance close 13 branch offices

Eru

No one I know has been let go and last I checked people were still driving cars which means they still need insurance. People still go to hospital, etc and the list goes on.

the live register has increased but its not even close to the numbers people seem to think and spread over the entire country its not a state of collapse.

I assume the private sector will be taking a pay decrease as well?

Relevant

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

No one I know has been let go and last I checked people were still driving cars which means they still need insurance. People still go to hospital, etc and the list goes on.

the live register has increased but its not even close to the numbers people seem to think and spread over the entire country its not a state of collapse.

I assume the private sector will be taking a pay decrease as well?

http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/0109/jobless.html

Unemployment has risen 121,000 in a year! Now i am not saying the Public Sector should get a pay cut, far from it, but to say that the private sector is not suffering is laughable

ScubaDave

If i recall correctly, the figures are approx. 5000 a week losing their jobs!

Eru

Relevant wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/0109/jobless.html

Unemployment has risen 121,000 in a year! Now i am not saying the Public Sector should get a pay cut, far from it, but to say that the private sector is not suffering is laughable

Out of what, 2 million? How many of them were / are part-time? How many have left the country but still claiming (the system works slowly)? How many have never had a job or looked for one? 121,000 is a small figure in comparison to the entire country.

You have to remember that according to the latest figures available some 118,000 foreign nationals applied for pps numbers in 2004 alone and were therefore part of the stats. From them only 45% were employed in the year 2007. Thats a staggering 60,000 or thereabouts that came into the country and form part of our unemployed. (your on the list even if your not actually getting the dole)

Then of course we have to remember that construction slows down in the winter months and its common enough for construction workers to be 'let go' for a period over christmas.

You also have to wonder how they got that figure considering the cso places actual unemployment in December at 143,000. Thats less than 2% unemployment for the nation. (population total V unemployed total)

Geri Boyle

Id have to disagree with you Karlitosway. I was let go a few months back. In the past year about 70% of the non-management staff in the office I worked were let go. About 90% of the people I went to college with have been let go or had their hours cut. I know of horror stories from other offices of people literally bidding against each other to keep their jobs. Alot of redundant staff have left the country so the figures if anything are underestimated. In my circle job security is the exception right now.

deadwood

Didn't management "decline" the recent controversial pay increase in the region of 15%?

An example to all us greedy little pigs.

Geri Boyle

Senior management in our place took a 20% pay cut. Junior management took 15% and staff took 10% .. I dont agree that public sector should have to take the hit when there is a demand for the job but dont underestimate the impact its had on the private sector. Less people employed also means less company cars (new car sales down 2/3rds) which means less people being insured which means more redundancies in that industry and a huge tax deficit which means more cutbacks across the board. The future is bleak.

FGR

On a serious note: I still don't understand why Government's so anxious about introducing Voluntary redundancies. I know many people who would leave the job and try something new or possibly even go abroad. It'll also allow the state to trim the fat out of admin that has always been costing the state a fortune.

On a lighter completely non serious note: If I take a 10% pay cut does that mean I'll get 10% more time off?

Relevant

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Out of what, 2 million? How many of them were / are part-time? How many have left the country but still claiming (the system works slowly)? How many have never had a job or looked for one? 121,000 is a small figure in comparison to the entire country.

You have to remember that according to the latest figures available some 118,000 foreign nationals applied for pps numbers in 2004 alone and were therefore part of the stats. From them only 45% were employed in the year 2007. Thats a staggering 60,000 or thereabouts that came into the country and form part of our unemployed. (your on the list even if your not actually getting the dole)

Then of course we have to remember that construction slows down in the winter months and its common enough for construction workers to be 'let go' for a period over christmas.

You also have to wonder how they got that figure considering the cso places actual unemployment in December at 143,000. Thats less than 2% unemployment for the nation. (population total V unemployed total)

Your statistics are all over the place. The 121,000 is an increase in the year. Not the total. Therefore that figure does not include people who have never worked. Since it is a rise since last december it will be seasonally adjusted and already take account of people not working over christmas.

Also you use 2million as the figure for people available to work and then say that 143,000 is only 2% unemployment. If you are to go by your figures it is approximately 7.15%.

To put this "small" number of 143,000 intp perspective There are around 14,000 gardai in the country (source: Wikipedia) That amount of people unemployed is TEN times the amount of Gardai in the country

TheNog

ForegoneReality wrote: »

On a lighter completely non serious note: If I take a 10% pay cut does that mean I'll get 10% more time off?

Wasnt that suggested recently that some admin staff do a four day week?

Might be a good idea if people were asked to take say a 5% cut in wage for a four day week. People would recoup some of that loss through saving in transport cost to and from work, child minding cost etc.

I heard recently back in the recession of the 1980's Gardai were not allowed to patrol but could only go to a call only. Could we be heading that way again?

Run_to_da_hills

TheNog wrote: »

I heard recently back in the recession of the 1980's Gardai were not allowed to patrol but could only go to a call only. Could we be heading that way again?

Today much of the urban patrol work is carried out in the control room of a CCTV monitoring station.

TheNog

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Today much of the urban patrol work is carried out in the control room of a CCTV monitoring station.

I would agree with you if we lived in England but here in this country urban policing is mostly done by human patrol. Of course that is if you are talking about CCTV operated by AGS

Tango Alpha 51

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I do know that the closure of the A&E services will greatly affect the Mid-West. They expect the out of hours GP services to deal with people who go through the A&E, which is absolutely rubbish. Local GP out of hours services have seen attendance spike over the last few years, yet no pressure is being taken off the A&E units – GP out of hours services cannot do X-Rays, and if someone has a heart attack then they simply must be admitted to A&E.

To suggest that GP out of hour’s services will be able to take the load when the A&E units close is absolutely ridiculous. The Regional Hospital in Limerick will be overcrowded, especially at weekends – it already is.

I don’t see how they expect the Regional Hospital in Limerick to deal with people from all of Clare, North Tipperary and County Limerick.

SO,
I agree with you to a point but chronic longterm illness should not be sent to an ED. They would be better off managed at home etc. A lot of things need to change in order to make the system better & that includes GP's/Nursing Homes etc.

Tango Alpha 51

the_syco wrote: »

Erm, prison staff, wtf? Seriously? They need more staff in the over crowded prisons, and unless they take on a few hundred more staff, less overtime is shooting themselves in the foot. As for nurses, etc, most do a lot of overtime, otherwise the people coming in would be f**ked. I'd say most people get injured outside of the 9-5 hours. As for the army, yeah, what are they thinking, that war stops at 5pm? Don't know who the DFB are.

DFB = Dublin Fire Brigade. They supply Dublin's Fire & Rescue Service as well as an Emergency Ambulance Service in Dublin City

shakin

just wondering would the proposed cut affect a trainees wages or is that exempt as its an allowance rather than a wage?

Sierra Oscar

buzzman wrote: »

SO,
I agree with you to a point but chronic longterm illness should not be sent to an ED. They would be better off managed at home etc. A lot of things need to change in order to make the system better & that includes GP's/Nursing Homes etc.

If a lot of things need to be done to the system, they could start by creating a new contract for GP's/Nurses.

The government/HSE expect to be able to shift patients onto GP's without increasing funding. GP's are expected to provide their own premises, and manage their own practices as it stands at the moment - the current GP contract is what, over 20 years old? Its a bum deal.

Also, a GP can never take over the full role of an A&E department.

CLADA

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Today much of the urban patrol work is carried out in the control room of a CCTV monitoring station.

You really do have a camera fetish, don't you?

Eru

Relevant wrote: »

Your statistics are all over the place. The 121,000 is an increase in the year. Not the total. Therefore that figure does not include people who have never worked.

My stats come direct from the cso. If your debating them then what would you use? The increase to the year includes people that have finished college, finished school, finished various trainee courses and above all, immigrants.

Relevant wrote: »

Since it is a rise since last december it will be seasonally adjusted and already take account of people not working over christmas.

No it hasnt as the adjustments are not done until the end of January to see how many have gone back to work.

Relevant wrote: »

Also you use 2million as the figure for people available to work and then say that 143,000 is only 2% unemployment. If you are to go by your figures it is approximately 7.15%.

Correct. My 2% was clearly based on population V unemployment. I stated that. 7.15% unemployment is still a very respectable figure on a global stage. In fact, its pretty bloody good so again, recession? yes. Mass unemployment? Nope.

Relevant wrote: »

To put this "small" number of 143,000 intp perspective There are around 14,000 gardai in the country (source: Wikipedia) That amount of people unemployed is TEN times the amount of Gardai in the country

So? I fail to see your point. What is it? Its 143000 times the amount of Taoiseachs we have. 18 times the amount of soldiers. Half the last recorded amount of construction workers. Thats not relevent in the slightest. Perhaps we should give them all uniforms is that what your getting at?

So, can you put a number on how many people have been let go from each sector? How many were seasonal workers? Part-time? Students? How many are no longer in the state having left since signing on? How many moved here from other eu states but have yet to actually work?

shakin wrote: »

just wondering would the proposed cut affect a trainees wages or is that exempt as its an allowance rather than a wage?

This is part of the problem. On the one hand are we expecting those on minimum wage or low income to take a 5% hit? What about trainees? they already make less than minimum wage as it is.

Blue Belle wrote: »

Id have to disagree with you Karlitosway. I was let go a few months back. In the past year about 70% of the non-management staff in the office I worked were let go. About 90% of the people I went to college with have been let go or had their hours cut. I know of horror stories from other offices of people literally bidding against each other to keep their jobs. Alot of redundant staff have left the country so the figures if anything are underestimated. In my circle job security is the exception right now.

That would put unemployment above 50% at a very reserved estimate in your industry. Think about what your saying. Companies have always been going bust but to suggest any sector is losing those figures makes no sense considering those figures arent even being touted for the construction sector.

Also, new car sales doesnt have a major impact on car insurance. Insurance is dictated by the amount of cars on the road regardless of age. Put another way, if I buy a new car or dont, I still need to insure a car. Also, less new cars being sold means more old cars on the road which impacts on the nct. More money gor the government through increased testing and extra jobs needed to test the additional vehicles.

Besides, arent you looking to be a Garda?

So to go back to topic. My point still stands. Public servants remain needed and secure so why should we give up 5% for construction workers when they have milked every cent over the last 15 years without any special government demands? Why arent the banks been made to help out more? FFS, they arent even giving out the full mortgage reduction and for people like me, wont allow us to break out of fixed rates.

eroo

How would the Gardai online here feel if recruitment was frozen for 1-2 years?

Geri Boyle

Incidentally I did work in the construction industry. Yes I am looking to join the Gardai but as I said I am not suggesting that the public sector take the hit. What I am suggesting is that this recession is not in people's heads, people are losing their jobs/ taking drastic paycuts/ having their hours cut. You may not know many of these people but I certainly do and to suggest it's not happening is insulting. Take a stroll down Grafton St. and check out the closing down sales. Its getting worse by the day.

djtechnics1210

They should take 5% of everyone thats working i think, why just public sector.
AGS have already not been given one increment we were due and you can bet that we wont get the next one thats due to us either, and we also get hit with a 2% levy on our overtime/allowance cheque.
They should not be taking money from the people that are at the frontline.
Will doctors be taking a 5% pay hit. I doubt it
Will management in AGS be taking a 5% hit. I doubt it
Will our wonderful government be taking a 5% pay hit. I definitely doubt it.
Why are the banks/financial institutes not getting hit with any pay reductions... after all they did attribute to the country getting into this mess.

djtechnics1210

eroo wrote: »

How would the Gardai online here feel if recruitment was frozen for 1-2 years?

With nearly all members that reach 30 years service, retiring as soon as they can. A 2 year recruitment freeze would be a disaster. The numbers would fall quickly as there would be no replacements for retiring members.
Back when i was attested... my intake put a total of 2 extra gardai into AGS.
The rest of my intake filled the gap left by retirements/resignations etc

the_syco

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

I assume the private sector will be taking a pay decrease as well?

You assume correctly. They'll also be let go in their hundreds, as the companies move to cheaper countries, such as Poland.

And unlike last time, we can't reduce the value of the pound euro.

mikemac

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

Why are the banks/financial institutes not getting hit with any pay reductions... after all they did attribute to the country getting into this mess.

Banking staff are getting hit, often over 10% in salary.
The banking executives feck up and the junior staff get a paycut instead. Yes it goes on, I include myself.
People before Profit were organized protests before Christmas and their volunteers screaming outrage at banking staff, wtf did I do wrong??

Want another example? In 2007, Bank of Ireland made a profit of 600 million euro in 6 months and decided to slash the employees pension plans from Defined Benefit to Defined Contribution.

Would your union accept that without questioning? Is the "banker" who lodges your cheque in your local branch responsible for all the wrongdoings and a paycut deserved?
I don't blame clerical staff in the Civil Service for the recession and I want to see frontline Emergency Service staff well paid and equipped with the tools and resources that they need. How about a balance?

We've have countless public sector bashing threads on boards but this one is no better and realy mostly to Karlitosway1978, this is a private sector bashing thread and it's not better

Word to the wise:
People working in IT are not dot com millionaires and more likely to be helpdesk monkeys
Plently of people got rich in construction but not every private sector worker. In fact most got poorer as they paid too much on purchase price and ripped off by tradesmen.
Hey, watch Millionaire Traders on BBC last night. It doesn't happen in Ireland (well, only on a tiny scale) so most banking staff are not top traders in the "city" or executives.

Eru

The figures speak for themselves. They arent my figures but the cso's one. Before everyone jumps and throws hissy fits at me, read what I said and what Im saying please.

Not once have I suggested theres hasnt been losses and I agreed that unemployment is increasing. My point is that the numbers are well within GLOBAL norms and perhaps when all the other figures and calculations are included, a little lower. Very few countries are experiencing an employment increase, they are the rarities not the norm. This recession is not an Irish recession, its a global one.

If you disagree with my view thats fine but if your going to post that Im wrong, prove it with a little more than "I know what I know" because that sure as hell wouldnt be accepted coming from a Garda.

Mike,
I dont really see why you think Im bashing the private sector. Im not condeming all private sector workers nor have I suggested that it should be the private sector taking a pay cut anymore than the public but you tell me, which sector has had the biggest effect on our economy? I would suggest its the construction and banking sectors which are both private. They had a large effect on the boom and its fall with the problems in both being well documented. My point concerning construction workers still stands. Its common knowledge that during the boom it was a very lucrative area to be in and we didnt have mass immigration into that sector by chance nor did we see a special 'builders' tax. Im not suggesting we should have, merely pointing out the double standards of those that are now trying to blame public sector workers and make us pay extra.

The simple reality of all this is Im not rich as probable most users here arent. I am the only income in my home, have bills and a mortgage just like you and again, most people so when I hear this 5% being thrown around and idiots actually agreeing with it my blood boil. Why? Because its a financial hit I really cant take on top of what AGS is already being hit with.

mikemac

Btw, the quote in your sig is from George Orwell and not Winston Churchill

Well any source I've checked stated this, I could be wrong but then are a hell of lot of radio podcasts and internet sites

Eru

mikemac wrote: »

Btw, the quote in your sig is from George Orwell and not Winston Churchill

Well any source I've checked stated this, I could be wrong but then are a hell of lot of radio podcasts and internet sites

Little of topic but I have seen it attributed to both. I will asume then that you agree with my last post?

Geri Boyle

I may not be firing cso or esri statistics at you, but if you want to hang your hat on statistics then you have to ask yourself if a 70% increase in unemployment in ONE year with visable signs of a worsening trend spreading across various sectors of the economy is not worrying for you? All I'm doing is giving my first hand account of the situation. I would have thought that was extremely valuable info for a Garda, no?
For this conversation I dont see the relevance of it being global and not just Irish tbh.

FGR

In fairness I have seen the increase in dole queues at the office near my own district. That is to say..there's many more faces than the usual heads you'd see there.

I'm not bashing the private sector; nor do I want to. If anything I blame this pay cut matter on the media. I've already mentioned it on another thread but I can recall Claire Byrne on Newstalk having Michael O'Leary on the Line. She was demanding that the Public Sector accepts a massive paycut and to deal with it as it's for the good of the country. It got to the stage where Michael O'Leary; the man who cannot stand the public sector; had to calm things down and say that he did not agree with pay cuts and to focus on the continuing effort in lowering numbers and increasing productivity instead.

And what does the Government do when they hear these things? They bow to the loudest voice (which could easily be the minority). I have to hold my hat to the unions in the Public Sector for saying they have no problem with the pay freeze as it's needed..but I also agree with them saying that they'll resist pay cuts. A colleague of mine whose home in Westmeath is taking up a large portion of his income. His other half was laid off recently so that 5% paycut is the difference between having a warm home and stress about keeping up payments/household bills. Reducing our pay won't save the economy. If anything I'd rather a 3% increase in standard income tax. Everyone pays and much more money is to be made by the state.

I wonder have the cast of the morning show on Newstalk taken a paycut..

met-man

We've been quite lucky here in retrospect. The Fed recently hammered out a 3-year pay deal for us that guarantees us a pay-rise for the next 3 years. This initially was not viewed as a good move on the part of the Fed, but with more and more people being made redundant here, I'm not complaining. We're now in a privileged position wherein our job is recession proof.

As regards the reality of people losing their jobs? This is evident here, on a daily basis. The suicide attempt I spent yesterday dealing with was a another victim of redundancy from the financial sector.

Eru

Blue Belle wrote: »

if you want to hang your hat on statistics then you have to ask yourself if a 70% increase in unemployment in ONE year with visable signs of a worsening trend spreading across various sectors of the economy is not worrying for you?

Worrying to me? Not for my job personally, I work in a secure and needed occupation, I do worry about my spouse that has so far failed to find work since leaving college. Its more worrying to those losing their jobs but I didnt see builders worried about Gardai or anyone else when they were milking it so I dont see why Im supposed to be obliged to them now. However its not 70%. Even in the boom times the figures where not as low as you seem to think. Where did you get 70% from?

Blue Belle wrote: »

All I'm doing is giving my first hand account of the situation. I would have thought that was extremely valuable info for a Garda, no?

No your not, your relying on hearsay, figures plucked from thin air and emotion which is of no use to Gardai. I fail to see how it could be nor how it reflects on this discussion.

Blue Belle wrote: »

For this conversation I dont see the relevance of it being global and not just Irish tbh.

Well perhaps you should look at the bigger picture then. A global recession is beyond our little countries control and we are pretty much powerless to deal with it or avoid it. Thats the point Im making, this isnt just Ireland falling apart. Were effected by whats happening in the US, Asia and central europe of which we can do nothing about

Geri Boyle

Put on Prime Time. RTE 1 just started

Eru

Blue Belle wrote: »

Put on Prime Time. RTE 1 just started

At 4am!!!!!!

Seriously, I dont watch that anymore considering the quality and bias of their shows

Geri Boyle

Im not plucking figures the 70% figure was from breaking News a couple of wks ago. Im not interested in bickering with you but quite frankly if you think an 8.1bn tax deficit is not going to affect you (even if its undeserved) youre seriously mistaken. As for the relevance of it being global, look at the title of the thread, youre off topic. As for my experience. Take it or leave it, believe me or dont. Its irrelevant tbh. Thats all I have to say on the matter im not getting sucked into a row.

TheNog

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Blue Belle wrote: »

Ok ye two take it easy please. A little empathy shown from either both of ye will go a long way.

Personaly I have seen both sides of your story to some extent. I was unemployed for nearly a year before the boom so I know what its like. The lack of funds, the desperation and the feeling of failure.

I also know what it was like when I joined the Gardai during the boom where people slagged me off for the low wages and the mentality of "I wouldnt do that job if I was paid a million euro".

We can have a decent discussion about current affairs without bringing personal feelings into it. It is hard I know but it can be done.

Nog

deadwood

My property portfolio has really taken a hit.

Thank God I have the safety net of the pensionable job to help compensate for the reduction in value of all those houses in Rathmines us guards own.

petergfiffin

The ESRI stats can be found at :http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/labour_market/current/qnhs.pdf which show about a 67% increase in unemployment.

The problem I have with pay in the Public/Civil service is more with the unions than with anybody in them, when times are good the unions want pay for civil servants because the private sector is doing well but in times like this they don't want to talk about pay cuts when the very people they use as their benchmark are very often unemployed or taking paycuts....but hey...that's unions. I don't see how the Government can now complain about public sector pay when they were the ones who agreed to it even though I remember the warnings at the time, if they wanted to cut public service numbers they should have done it at a time when they could have given people a decent redundancy and there were jobs for people to go to, personally I'm in favour of keeping public service numbers the same but changing the distribution to be more at the front line i.e. reduce the number of administrators but increase the number of nurses, teachers & Guards

The real fear I have with all these cutbacks is not so much around pay as for the operational budgets to run departments. I heard a senior Guard on the radio this morning telling a story about a murder case in the 80s where they basically had to cut down on the investigation because they couldn't pay the overtime which obviously extended how long it took to solve. Given the problems we have with gangland crime are we going to see all these new specialist units like the new armed units being cut back? Given that we could barely keep our heads above water in many areas when we were flush with money, what will happen now?