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Atheism is "cool"

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    #392
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ZondaChai wrote: »
    Despite what you intended to ask in the OP, the off topic conversation is obviously what people want to talk about, there's already been twenty pages about it. Why don't you let the wolves have their sheep and post the original question again as simply as you can.

    No, because the original topic is dead. And anyway, I much prefer where the conversation has gone. The original question wasn't all that exciting.
    To answer your original question, Athiesm is only as cool as society and the prominant figures of society deem it to be, and with people such as Richard Dawkins walking around, and then people like Barack Obama walking around, then my answer is no, atheism although logical, is not cool

    Ah, but that's just because you consider Obama cooler than Dawkins; I myself think Dawkins is much cooler than Obama, but that's just me.


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    #393
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    -JammyDodger- wrote: »
    No, because the original topic is dead. And anyway, I much prefer where the conversation has gone. The original question wasn't all that exciting.



    Ah, but that's just because you consider Obama cooler than Dawkins; I myself think Dawkins is much cooler than Obama, but that's just me.

    No, black guys are always cooler than white guys.

    BTW, why is that when the black guys in our church shave their heads then they look cool. When I shave my head I look like a neo-Nazi. How do they do that?


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    #394
    Handsome Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    PDN wrote: »
    No, black guys are always cooler than white guys.

    BTW, why is that when the black guys in our church shave their heads then they look cool. When I shave my head I look like a neo-Nazi. How do they do that?

    You mean people think I'm a nazi when I walk down the road?:( It ain't my fault, genes kicked in.:pac:


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    #395
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    PDN wrote: »
    No, black guys are always cooler than white guys.

    Ok, which is cooler: Exhibit A, or... Exhibit B. You see, it's not quite so clear cut.

    (For people who don't get it, Exhibit B is actually Robert Downey, Jr.; and he's actually white:eek:)
    BTW, why is that when the black guys in our church shave their heads then they look cool. When I shave my head I look like a neo-Nazi. How do they do that?

    Some form of witch-craft?


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    #396
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    -JammyDodger- wrote: »
    Ok, which is cooler: Exhibit A, or... Exhibit B. You see, it's not quite so clear cut.

    If a guy holding a gun asks you, always tell him that he is the coolest one!


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    #397
    karen3212
    Closed Accounts Posts: 668 ✭✭✭karen3212


    PDN wrote: »

    BTW, why is that when the black guys in our church shave their heads then they look cool. When I shave my head I look like a neo-Nazi. How do they do that?
    Were you still wearing the uniform at the time:pac:

    btw love the sig, I reckon Jesus would be weeping though


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    #398
    pH
    Registered Users Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭pH


    Cool
    obamaatheistsg6.jpg

    "I was not raised in a religious household . . . Without the help of religious texts or outside authorities, (my mother) worked mightily to instil in me the values that many Americans learn in Sunday school: honesty, empathy, discipline, delayed gratification, and hard work," says the ad, quoting the memoir.
    http://www.vancouversun.com/Life/Obama+atheist+role+model/1195507/story.html


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    #399
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    lostexpectation wrote: »
    you're asking them to explain their atheism not there (previous) theism that's the problem.

    you putting the burden of proof for you on their atheism

    The "burden of proof" is only something that atheists use as a get-out clause to save having to explain their position. It has been commonly placed by atheists on the Christianity forum and here. I see this "burden of proof" as an attempt to feign some form of argument from authority rather than anything clear.

    Both sides of this debate have to explain their position, atheists and theists, and nobody is or should be given a "burden of proof". It kind of makes me want to say "Where is my get out of jail free card?" when I don't have one in a game of Monopoly, it's just about as ridiculous. There aren't any in this discussion unfortunately for some.


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    #400
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Both sides of this debate have to explain their position.

    Its easy let me try. We don't believe in god no evidence for his existence is provided. Man made institutions and religions aren't evidence therefore you have atheists. You know what I'm too lazy to keep typing :pac:

    What Dave! says below.


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    #401
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Jakkass wrote: »
    The "burden of proof" is only something that atheists use as a get-out clause to save having to explain their position. It has been commonly placed by atheists on the Christianity forum and here. I see this "burden of proof" as an attempt to feign some form of argument from authority rather than anything clear.

    Both sides of this debate have to explain their position, atheists and theists, and nobody is or should be given a "burden of proof". It kind of makes me want to say "Where is my get out of jail free card?" when I don't have one in a game of Monopoly, it's just about as ridiculous. There aren't any in this discussion unfortunately for some.
    Don't be ridiculous.

    Okay: there is a giant tiger with wings flying around above Tallaght at the moment. It unfortunately has the power to turn invisible, so I wouldn't be surprised if nobody bar myself saw it. But the tiger certainly exists.

    (a) I have to prove it exists,
    or
    (b) You have to prove it does not

    ???


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    #402
    JimiTime
    Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    Dave! wrote: »
    Don't be ridiculous.

    Okay: there is a giant tiger with wings flying around above Tallaght at the moment. It unfortunately has the power to turn invisible, so I wouldn't be surprised if nobody bar myself saw it. But the tiger certainly exists.

    (a) I have to prove it exists,
    or
    (b) You have to prove it does not

    ???

    Depending on what the consequences are or course, a bit from a and a bit from b. It matters little if one guy says they seen some inoquous sighting and they can't provide evidence of the sighting.

    However, if through the ages, various people claim to have seen/heard/witnessed/died for, thus corroborating, various things that actually may have an impact on us its a very different matter. Its why individuals saying they've been abducted by Aliens aren't believed by the majority.


    I believe, it then falls upon the skeptic to show how they were decieved, liars or mentalists. Its certainly not an automatic given, that the burdon of proof lies away from the atheist. If I go to you and say I've seen a lion in the sky, you'd likely ignore it. If 500 people come to you and say they all seen it, the situation changes a bit.


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    #403
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    JimiTime wrote: »
    ....Its certainly not an automatic given, that the burdon of proof lies away from the atheist.

    I don't think so. You could look at like this, you for example make the claim that I should be aware that their is a god I should worship with no evidence and thats pretty much it.


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    #404
    JimiTime
    Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    I don't think so. You could look at like this, you for example make the claim that I should be aware that their is a god I should worship with no evidence and thats pretty much it.

    As I said, There have been many corrobaritive witnesses to divine events. You merely brush that aside as not constituting evidence. What you are defining as evidence is the recent phenomenon, that for something to be considered, it must undergo the scientific method. However, several witnesses to a crime, is good enough evidence to convict. I agree, people can be mistaken etc, but if there are enough witnesses, its up to you to discredit them.

    All thats before we get into how you explain how you think life got here.


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    #405
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    JimiTime wrote: »
    As I said, There have been many corrobaritive witnesses to divine events.

    Which religion?
    JimiTime wrote: »
    You merely brush that aside as not constituting evidence. What you are defining as evidence is the recent phenomenon, that for something to be considered, it must undergo the scientific method.

    Yes.
    JimiTime wrote: »
    However, several witnesses to a crime, is good enough evidence to convict. I agree, people can be mistaken etc, but if there are enough witnesses, its up to you to discredit them.

    Which religion? Witnesses to what? I still don't have my evidence for your God Jimi?
    JimiTime wrote: »
    All thats before we get into how you explain how you think life got here.

    I don't know how life got here(well I've heard a few theories as to it got here on earth) its up to you to provide evidence that a god is responsible.

    ps this conversation sucks


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    #406
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    ps this conversation sucks
    + 1

    /sigh


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    #407
    JimiTime
    Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    ps this conversation sucks

    Don't post then. I know your an atheist and all that,:pac: but its hardly rocket science is it?


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    #408
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    JimiTime wrote: »
    Don't post then. I know your an atheist and all that,:pac: but its hardly rocket science is it?
    Careful now.

    The arrival of Christianity to this thread hasn't exactly contributed to the original post. In fact the thread is clearly gasping it's last breaths.


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    #409
    JimiTime
    Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    Which religion?

    All of them.
    Which religion? Witnesses to what? I still don't have my evidence for your God Jimi?

    All of them. Examine the evidence and discredit as you feel appropriate.

    I don't know how life got here(well I've heard a few theories as to it got here on earth) its up to you to provide evidence that a god is responsible.

    If 'you' require me to 'proove' it, thats your choice. Its however, not an automatic given that the burden of proof is on me. Fair enough if thats what 'you' want though. BTW, I equally disagree with the phrase 'proove he doesn't exist'. For any proper conversation to occur, the parties involved should be looking at ways to discuss a topic giving heed to and scrutinising any info available. As i said, there should be no burden of proof on either party, otherwise you are just starting off on a bad footing by which little is usually gained. Burden of proof in this manner is just a crock IMO.


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    #410
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    JimiTime wrote: »
    Don't post then. I know your an atheist and all that,:pac: but its hardly rocket science is it?

    I'm not sure what you mean and I was going to give you a longer post but its not worth it or else I'm too lazy.


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    #411
    JimiTime
    Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    Dades wrote: »
    Careful now.

    The arrival of Christianity to this thread hasn't exactly contributed to the original post. In fact the thread is clearly gasping it's last breaths.

    The proof being, that I aint got a clue what this threads Op was. Oh, Atheism being cool.

    Yes, i think there is an intellectual snobbery regarding atheism. It was cool when I was in school to rubbish the religion teachers. Not necesarily with anything clever, just more rebellious tbh. It was one of the few classes whereopinion could be expressed, so the rebels were able to do their thing I suppose. It has become more an intellectual thing in more recent times IMO.

    Atheism = Smart
    Christianity = You may seem smart, but with obvious legion on your brain.


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    #412
    JimiTime
    Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    I'm not sure what you mean and I was going to give you a longer post but its not worth it or else I'm too lazy.

    I mean, getting involved in a conversation then subsequently saying it sucks.
    Solution: Don't get involved in conversation.


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    #413
    pH
    Registered Users Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭pH


    JimiTime wrote: »
    Atheism = Smart
    Christianity = You may seem smart, but with obvious legion on your brain.

    If I was small minded and petty, and wanted to make myself look terribly clever I'd make that my new sig.


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    #414
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    JimiTime wrote: »
    All of them. Examine the evidence [...]
    One doesn't have to examine every story about fairies to conclude fairly safely that fairies probably don't exist.


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    #415
    JimiTime
    Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    robindch wrote: »
    One doesn't have to examine every story about fairies to conclude fairly safely that fairies probably don't exist.

    Ok, so you have worked out that much. Move on to one that you wish to assess. If you work out its a crock, move on to the next one. If none interest you, close the book and let that be the end of it until someday maybe you find something that gets you thinking about one again. No-ones going to be able to 'proove' anything to you, nor you to them regarding Christianity anyway. So if we know that such proof is highly unlikely bar God revealing himself to you, then where this burden lies is a pretty moot point.


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    #416
    JimiTime
    Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    pH wrote: »
    If I was small minded and petty, and wanted to make myself look terribly clever I'd make that my new sig.

    Were you the one quoted in PDN's controvertial sig by any chance?:)


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    #417
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    JimiTime wrote: »
    Were you the one quoted in PDN's controvertial sig by any chance?:)

    No that was lostexpectation's great comment.:pac:


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    #418
    MatthewVII
    Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭MatthewVII


    JimiTime wrote: »
    Atheism = Smart
    Christianity = You may seem smart, but with obvious legion on your brain.

    I haven't come across any specific case examples, but I'm sure poor spelling can be explained by a lesion on the brain.

    Unless you were referring to the Legion of Mary, in which case a lot of Christians may well have it on the brain


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    #419
    Tyler MacDurden
    Registered Users Posts: 351 ✭✭Tyler MacDurden


    Dades wrote: »
    Careful now.

    The arrival of Christianity to this thread hasn't exactly contributed to the original post. In fact the thread is clearly gasping it's last breaths.

    Agreed, now we know how the Romans felt. :D

    Anyhow,back to the original post. I've met some of these teenage atheists and yes, it's pretty much just another badge of coolness. Perhaps some are sincere but haven't yet developed an articulate argument for their disbelief, time will tell.

    Atheism that doesn't arise through a process of rational thought and careful consideration is something else entirely, in my opinion. Immature rebelliousness, sheer laziness, a reaction to one's upbringing...take your pick.


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    #420
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    Its easy let me try. We don't believe in god no evidence for his existence is provided. Man made institutions and religions aren't evidence therefore you have atheists. You know what I'm too lazy to keep typing :pac:

    What Dave! says below.

    What do you mean by evidence? Indication for God's existence is also evidence, just as much as an item of clothing (belonging to another person) next to a dead body may indicate that the owner of said clothing murdered the victim. This is also evidence.

    You are correct in saying there is no objective proof, but this leaves you in quite a predicament too as there is also no objective proof for your position, of course leaving out nonsense like burdens of proof.


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    #421
    MatthewVII
    Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭MatthewVII


    Jakkass wrote: »
    What do you mean by evidence? Indication for God's existence is also evidence, just as much as an item of clothing (belonging to another person) next to a dead body may indicate that the owner of said clothing murdered the victim. This is also evidence.

    You are correct in saying there is no objective proof, but this leaves you in quite a predicament too as there is also no objective proof for your position, of course leaving out nonsense like burdens of proof.

    Going back to your case about the item of clothing beside the man. According to your position, wihtout objective proof there can be no judgement. Does this mean that the man who owns the clothing is as likely to be innocent as any randomer on the street simply because we don't have a video record of exactly what happened?

    Decisions are based on evidence. Lots of evidence which swings us in one direction is as close to proof as we'll get.


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