Minimum Wage; Are you better off on the dole?

IvyTheTerrible

green123 wrote: »

but you are not just giving up 100 euro for nothing.
you are getting up to 50 hours free time in return
alot of people would gladly swap 100 euro for 50 hours free time to spend with friends/family/kids or whatever else they want to do in their spare time

You get pretty sick of 50 hours a week free time after a couple of weeks unemployed. Not much fun living in a dead-end town with no money and nothing to do.

I am starting work in 3 weeks after more than a year without a job. I cannot wait to start and will never complain about work again.

deleriumtremens

I'd much much prefer to work 39 hours a week at minimum wage than stay on the dole. The thing is there IS a big difference between having 200 a week and having 300 a week. That 100 euro allows you to put a bit of money aside for saving. Never mind medical cards or anything like that, just take illness or injury as it comes, if its troubling you enough you wont mind paying for it.

The only thing is its hard to even find a job that can provide you with even half of those hours. Nowadays I wouldnt think anything less of somebody on the dole, the situation is drastic quite frankly, there's just no work. Employers are struggling to allow their present workers to keep their jobs, nevermind taking on new staff.

Also, on a slightly related issue, did anybody else hear senator eoghan harris on the late late show the other night saying that he expects unemployment to rise to 700000? That's one frightening figure

Biggins

deleriumtremens wrote: »

...Also, on a slightly related issue, did anybody else hear senator eoghan harris on the late late show the other night saying that he expects unemployment to rise to 700000? That's one frightening figure

Surely you mean 70,000 ?
700000 is unreal as the population is only around 4 million ain't it?

IvySlayer

Biggins wrote: »

Surely you mean 70,000 ?
700000 is unreal as the population is only around 4 million ain't it?

That'll be 17.5% unemployed. We're at 9 now...

deleriumtremens

Biggins wrote: »

Surely you mean 70,000 ?
700000 is unreal as the population is only around 4 million ain't it?

Maybe I heard him wrong but I'm almost sure that he said he expects unemployment to hit 700,000....can't remember if he said at what point he expects that figure to be reached but, regardless, a figure like that, should it be reached or not, is a really shocking idea :eek: What would a figure like that mean for those aged 18 to 25....and the usual emmigration spots are going to be, (actually, afaik already are) flooded with people looking for work.....arghhh where to turn!!!!

by 70,000 maybe? it's around 330k now and is expected to hit 400k?

Senna

There was forecasts of 600k people on the dole by then end of 2010, so maybe he did mean 700k. I hope not, but i could believe it.

I'd work for minimum wage over the dole any day, a lot of people on the dole would happily take a minimum wage job but just cant get one. If i was losing my job i'd offer to work in the same role for minimum wage and for the amount of hours i do, €300 would be less than €5 an hour.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

green123 wrote: »

but you are not just giving up 100 euro for nothing.
you are getting up to 50 hours free time in return
alot of people would gladly swap 100 euro for 50 hours free time to spend with friends/family/kids or whatever else they want to do in their spare time

You just added 11 hours, can't you count? Didn't ya pay attention in school? FFS, I will spell it out to you.

39 hours a week, say the min wage is 8.35, that's 325 a week. The dole is 207 a week. That's 118 extra. I will tell ya something, when you take in 207 a week, 118 is a massive increase. The 39 "free" hours that people have on the dole, well a good bit of that should be spent on looking for work.

A lot of people don't seem to understand, a lot of people on the dole would jump at the opportunity of a minimum wage job, I certainly would.

I am also sick of people putting down those on social welfare, it is not easy to find work, it is not easy to secure a job. I really hope, I really do, that those that constantly put down those on social welfare, that you end up there soon, it would wake you up, really would.

IzzyWizzy

You get pretty sick of 50 hours a week free time after a couple of weeks unemployed. Not much fun living in a dead-end town with no money and nothing to do.

Exactly. I've been out of work a week now (changed country ) and I'm so bored. I send off about 40 CVs a day, and follow up with phonecalls from the previous day, search for vacancies online and still the day seems to go on and on. In my last job I never had a minute to myself which was stressful and difficult, but this is almost worse. You appreciate your free time so much more when you're working hard for most of the week. It sucks having no reason to get up in the morning, and encourages a really crap lifestyle of sleeping in every day and moping around. I can't wait to get a job, anything.

doolox

I have seen cyclists in this city the way they are treated and don't see that as a long term risk free solution.
Packed lunches are for children. We are talking about adults here. Besides most places of work have canteens and expect a modest level of purchase for their use. €5 per day is modest.
We can argue this but, at best, minimum wage jobs are an interim step in the labour market, a foot in the door, a starting point in ones career.
Unfortunately, for many in Ireland, they are a long term, miserable condition.

green123

green123 wrote: »

but you get 200 a week on the dole for doing nothing

why work 40 hours a week plus travel time for only 100 euro ?

you are working all week for 100 euro

green123 wrote: »

but you are not just giving up 100 euro for nothing.
you are getting up to 50 hours free time in return
alot of people would gladly swap 100 euro for 50 hours free time to spend with friends/family/kids or whatever else they want to do in their spare time

Imani Gifted Statement wrote: »

You just added 11 hours, can't you count? Didn't ya pay attention in school? FFS, I will spell it out to you.

maybe you should pay more attention :rolleyes:

let me spell it out for you
i am including travel time going to and from work
so i didnt just add 11 hours

Phototoxin

€200 plus all the free time you want - costs to get to where the dole is.

Hell yes.


working on minimum wage = 8 hours of slavery + transport costs. Unless you are making a decent 'profit' in excess of 200 then there is no point

Mr Benevolent

I'm essentially on minimum wage, earning about €9 an hour. The job is fairly ok, it gives me experience and (eventually) a better CV, and I can save for the hols/car/flying lessons fairly easily. Fine, I'm living at home, not paying much for rent or food, but it's still far, far better than the dole, which I was on for 7 months straight. Working is much better.

Boskowski

Imani Gifted Statement wrote: »

I am also sick of people putting down those on social welfare, it is not easy to find work, it is not easy to secure a job. I really hope, I really do, that those that constantly put down those on social welfare, that you end up there soon, it would wake you up, really would.

Well and I'm actually beginning to get sick of you hoping that other people lose their jobs. I do believe you now that you are willing to take a minimum wage job over the dole I think you said it about a dozen times at this stage. Doesn't make it any better that you wish bad things to happen to other people just because you don't agree with them. And nobody begrudges a genuine welfare receiver like yourself (apparently) their welfare payments. But you can't deny that there is a quite a number of people who live quite comfortably between the post office, the pub and their sponsored council house and have no intention to seek a job any time soon. I do think these people need a little kick up their arse and a little reduction of their welfare payments would do just that.

TwoShedsJackson

JangoFett wrote: »

I'm on €8.76 an hour, I think it's close to minimum wage but in 6 months time I'll get a raise and I got a bonus at Christmas, and I'm working in the industry I have my degree in, so it's worth it!!

You're on 11 cent an hour over the minimum wage in an area you have a degree in? Three or four years study well spent there, then.

scanlas

I think if you detest the minimum wage job you could be better off on the dole. Also you might be elible for €98 per week rent allowance. I personally would feel alot more self worth not doing something I detested. I would workout every day, go on long jogs and become ripped and really fit. I would read lots of interesting books, learn languages and do much more fulfilling things with my time.

Life is too short to do jobs for minimum wage that you hate unless there is no alternative.

paddyb125

With the dole being so high there isn't any incentive to get a minimum wage job

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

You're on 11 cent an hour over the minimum wage in an area you have a degree in? Three or four years study well spent there, then.

And what do you do then? What are you on? You are obviously living under a rock, completely oblivious to world events. The money that he is on is a lot more than a lot of graduates, a lot of graduates are on social welfare, like myself, who cannot find work. Simple as.

Realcam, it got to the stage that people in jobs making a pretty penny find it easy to say "cut the welfare, all on the dole are scumbags, there's plenty of work you're just lazy, you do nothing for your money" etc etc etc, the comments are endless, and these people would wake up if they lost their jobs and had to rely on social welfare. I do hope more like these lose their jobs, it would be great to see.

Those milking the state for everything, taking all they can should be hung out to dry. If you know of them, report them.

People have to spend travel time to and from the dole office, all the waiting around, etc etc, should we factor this in too? No? Then why do you? Stop talking crap.

Doolox, nothing wrong with a packed lunch, I often brought them to work when things got tight.

green123

Imani Gifted Statement wrote: »

like myself, who cannot find work. .

maybe the reason you dont have a job is because in interviews you come across as a bit of a prick just like you do here on boards ?

Gummy Panda

green123 wrote: »

maybe the reason you dont have a job is because in interviews you come across as a bit of a prick just like you do here on boards ?

Nice...

You'll probably enjoy the Almighty banhammer for that comment. Was it worth it?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

green123 wrote: »

maybe the reason you dont have a job is because in interviews you come across as a bit of a prick just like you do here on boards ?

Whatever you may think, I am actually exceptionally intelligent. I am not so stupid as to present myself in such a manner that my attitude will prevent me from getting a job, unfortunately it is the lack of experience that bars me from getting work. But if you happened to look in the entrepreneurial & business managment forum, you would know that I am doing something about my situation, unlike a lot of people.

This is my release grounds, I can let my alter ego lose and run wild. I am very opinionated and I love to debate, why you have such a problem with me is beyond me.

So before you want to personaly insult me on a public forum, for holding an opinion, think, just for a second. Do yourself a favour

Anyway, back on topic shall we?

dr.bollocko

green123 wrote: »

maybe the reason you dont have a job is because in interviews you come across as a bit of a prick just like you do here on boards ?

Banned.
Back on topic indeed.

doolox

Those who wish for a reduction in the dole do not know how real economics or bargaining works.
Employers have to pay a wage sufficiently attractive enough to get and keep a workforce in their jobs. If the dole is cut and less people are qualified to get it then wages will fall as more people are forced to compete at the bottom of the labour market and will weaken bargaining power and depress wages. All the government can do in the face of wage reduction below min wage is prosecute employers, I doubt they will do that in the present climate.
Another avenue open to employers if the dole is reduced is to load more work onto the backs of the min wage workers and intensify the work they do as it becomes less attractive to give up work and go on the dole.
This work intensification is already taking place as people are let go, places shut down and more is expected at a higher level from less people.
Also expect to have to pay soon for your own uniform, training, safety equipment, tools etc as employers farm out these expenses to workers on minimum wage as a way of saving money. If the legislation does not define what services the wage covers you will see employers pushing more expense items over to the employee as they can get away with.
With most workers having weak bargaining power there will be little they can do to combat this.

Agent Smith

The simple fact is that there are so few jobs out there at the moment. Employers are NOT hiring new staff, because they're afraid of the uncertainty of the economy, and of their own future.

IF you look online, you will see hundreds of jobs being advertised, but these are not actual jobs. These are the recruitment companies luring people to sign up with them. You apply for a job, you get an interview with the recruitment company who tell you how wonderful you are, and then... nada. Nothing. Its like you don't even exist anymore. A few companies will contact you after a few weeks and say they have a job that might suit you but nothing comes of that either. [At this stage I have signed up with almost every accounting/business recruitment company in Ireland]

I came back to Ireland roughly four months ago. I've been consistently looking for work since i returned, and I have a fairly decent resume. I've worked for over 13 years in Debt Recovery, and have experience with all types of customers. Considering the state of the economy, you would think there would be plenty of work. Nope. Not a bit.

I have never been out of work before. I started working at 21, and I'm now 32. The longest holiday at one time I've ever had was maybe a week. I've been unemployed and on the dole for almost 4 months. Its ****ing horrible.

Oh, and guys/gals, I wouldn't knock the people on the dole too much. The way the economy is going, you could be next. I rather hope you aren't since, its unfeasible for a country to operate with everyone on welfare...

Agent Smith wrote: »

the dole should be only allowed as a short term solution

say, if someones on it more then 6 months, make them clean graffiti, cut public grass, jobs like that. make them earn their dole

Depends on how that short term solution is applied. I have less sympathy for people who were on the dole during the last three years without getting work, than those who signed on recently. There is a genuine problem in this country, and the dole is a lifeline to many people recently made unemployed.

But i would like to see temp work being allocated to everyone on the dole regardless of their circumstances. I'm not afraid to work, and frankly it will help to prevent me from getting too bored/depressed.

RonMexico

Imani Gifted Statement wrote: »

Whatever you may think, I am actually exceptionally intelligent. I am not so stupid as to present myself in such a manner that my attitude will prevent me from getting a job, unfortunately it is the lack of experience that bars me from getting work. But if you happened to look in the entrepreneurial & business managment forum, you would know that I am doing something about my situation, unlike a lot of people.

This is my release grounds, I can let my alter ego lose and run wild. I am very opinionated and I love to debate, why you have such a problem with me is beyond me.

So before you want to personaly insult me on a public forum, for holding an opinion, think, just for a second. Do yourself a favour

Anyway, back on topic shall we?

Forgive my curiosity as you are clearly very intelligent but how exactly do you let your alter ego lose? What is the game you are playing? What is the prize?

maninasia

Deleted User wrote: »

The simple fact is that there are so few jobs out there at the moment. Employers are NOT hiring new staff, because they're afraid of the uncertainty of the economy, and of their own future.

IF you look online, you will see hundreds of jobs being advertised, but these are not actual jobs. These are the recruitment companies luring people to sign up with them. You apply for a job, you get an interview with the recruitment company who tell you how wonderful you are, and then... nada. Nothing. Its like you don't even exist anymore. A few companies will contact you after a few weeks and say they have a job that might suit you but nothing comes of that either. [At this stage I have signed up with almost every accounting/business recruitment company in Ireland]

I came back to Ireland roughly four months ago. I've been consistently looking for work since i returned, and I have a fairly decent resume. I've worked for over 13 years in Debt Recovery, and have experience with all types of customers. Considering the state of the economy, you would think there would be plenty of work. Nope. Not a bit.

I have never been out of work before. I started working at 21, and I'm now 32. The longest holiday at one time I've ever had was maybe a week. I've been unemployed and on the dole for almost 4 months. Its ****ing horrible.

Oh, and guys/gals, I wouldn't knock the people on the dole too much. The way the economy is going, you could be next. I rather hope you aren't since, its unfeasible for a country to operate with everyone on welfare...




Depends on how that short term solution is applied. I have less sympathy for people who were on the dole during the last three years without getting work, than those who signed on recently. There is a genuine problem in this country, and the dole is a lifeline to many people recently made unemployed.

But i would like to see temp work being allocated to everyone on the dole regardless of their circumstances. I'm not afraid to work, and frankly it will help to prevent me from getting too bored/depressed.

Forgive my presumption but there definitely SHOULD be jobs in debt recovery. I think you need to go to the debt collection companies and banks themselves, e-mail them and send hard copy of your resume, call them up even... once you get talking to the right people you will have a good chance... the slow economy is going to delay job opps coming up, you need to be more aggressive perhaps..

white apples

Minimum wage: 8.65

8.65 x 40 hours = €346
Tax credit 35.16
Taxable pay = 311 X 20% = 62.20
Income levy of 1% = 3.46

Total deductions = 65.66
346 - 65.66 = 280.34

Jobseekers All / Benefit = 204.30
Rent allowance 98
Total 302.30

"In general, if your only income is a social welfare or Health Services Executive (HSE) payment, you will qualify for a rent supplement from your Local Health Office."
from here

Work for 40 hours for €280.34 OR
Don't work and get €302.30

People can go on all they want about dignity and all that but this just doesen't make any sense to me. There's no encouragement to go out to work, and this is not even including other benefits like medical cards etc.

Rent allowance is easy to get if you're on the dole and renting.

amacachi

white apples wrote: »

Minimum wage: 8.65

8.65 x 40 hours = €346
Tax credit 35.16
Taxable pay = 311 X 20% = 62.20
Income levy of 1% = 3.46

Total deductions = 65.66
346 - 65.66 = 280.34

Jobseekers All / Benefit = 204.30
Rent allowance 98
Total 302.30

"In general, if your only income is a social welfare or Health Services Executive (HSE) payment, you will qualify for a rent supplement from your Local Health Office."
from here

Work for 40 hours for €280.34 OR
Don't work and get €302.30

People can go on all they want about dignity and all that but this just doesen't make any sense to me. There's no encouragement to go out to work, and this is not even including other benefits like medical cards etc.

Rent allowance is easy to get if you're on the dole and renting.

You don't know how tax credits work do you?

white apples

ok well explain it to me....

amacachi

8.65 x 40 hours = €346
€346 * 20% = €69.2
Tax Credit = €70, once they're on PAYE.

Therefore they pay no income tax, just the 1% levy and PRSI. The tax credit is applied at the end, not the beginning.