Flexibility for Power Cleans

Vegeta

Hey Folks,

I would like to do more power cleaning but find I don't have the wrist and probably tricep flexibility for it.

I cant hold the bar in the following position:



Can anyone recommend any stretches to improve wrist and tricep flexibility or any other tips to enable me to hold the bar in this position. (I have same problem with front squats)

If I currently try a power clean I have to finish the movement in a military press type hold (elbows low as opposed to high). This puts a lot of pressure on my elbow and wrist and will lead to injury no doubt.

I like to movement and would like to get good at it so all help is greatly appreciated.

Stretches, how long to hold, how often to do them etc.

Cheers,
Veg.

EDIT: I did a search but couldn't find the topic covered so apologies if this has been asked multiple times.

Roper

The best one I get people to do is to have them stand in the power rack with the bar set at their catch height, then one arm at a time have them walk in to the front squat position with their fingers open. Then repeat for the other arm.

Quick Q, are you trying to grip the bar or are you allowing it to sit on your shoulders with your fingers beneath it?

spiral

put the bar in the rack with a weight you cant budge and just get in position and attempt to drive your elbows up.
If you have someone you trust you can get them to gently apply pressure from underneath to the elbows.
It will come eventually.

Hanley

spiral wrote: »

put the bar in the rack with a weight you cant budge and just get in position and attempt to drive your elbows up.
If you have someone you trust you can get them to gently apply pressure from underneath to the elbows.
It will come eventually.

+1

Work on upper back flexibility too.

Consider wrist flexiblity too - put your hands flat against a wall with you arms out straight. Gradually try to bring your hands lower down the wall with you palms still flat.

Tricep flexibility is important too - Use a stretch similar to this http://www.bodybuildingworld.com/vol10_1/tricep_stretch.jpg Set the bar in a squat rack or smith machine about nipple height, grip just outside sohulder width with your palms facing the floor and your thumb on top of the bar, feet a couple of feet behind the bar. Lean into the bar, try to get your head and shoulders under it, and as you do rotate your elbows up towards the ceiling.

Shoulder dislocates may help (they seem to be the solution to all upper body problems!!)

Vegeta

Roper wrote: »

Quick Q, are you trying to grip the bar or are you allowing it to sit on your shoulders with your fingers beneath it?

Thanks folks,

Yeah Barry I am gripping at the moment cos I cant do the latter above

Looking forward to working on this one.

g'em

spiral wrote: »

put the bar in the rack with a weight you cant budge and just get in position and attempt to drive your elbows up.
If you have someone you trust you can get them to gently apply pressure from underneath to the elbows.

Another +1 for this, particularly the assisted PNF-type stretching. After two or three gently forceful pushes against resistance you should see a marked improvement each session.

If you find that there's a lot of pressure on your wrists (which invariably there will be with most weightlifting exercises) you can try just wrapping a roller bandage around each wrist fairly snugly (a roller bandage is around €2-3 in any chemist, cut it in half = perfect length per wrist). It's supple enough to allow full r.o.m. but sturdy enough to provide good support. You can also try using the more traditional solid lifting wrist supports but sometimes they can be too restrictive.

Kudos on the choice of exercise btw, are you doing much weightlifting in your workouts?

Colm_OReilly

In addition to the stretches, two things I've found help.

1) Get your shoulders up and forward. Try touch your nose with your shoulders to give you an idea of what I'm talking about. Or, imagine someone has their finger about a foot away from your face and try touch it with your elbows. It should bring your shoulders into the game more, giving you that platform for landing.


2) Put your hands wider than just shoulder width. I see a lot of people with their hands very close to the shoulders. Makes it harder for the elbows to rotate around the bar and to create a self.

Best of luck,
Col

Vegeta

g'em wrote: »

Kudos on the choice of exercise btw, are you doing much weightlifting in your workouts?

Its all weightlifting at the moment :pac: I really do need to do a bit of cardio actually

Mainly doing Squat, Deadlift, bench and I have the lovely olympic type rings and am doing dips n chins on them (I'm oh so pathetic at chins of any variety)

I see the Starting Strength program has power cleans in it so I gave them a shot and think they are a cool exercise which I'd like to get better at.

g'em

Vegeta wrote: »

Its all weightlifting at the moment :pac: I really do need to do a bit of cardio actually

Weightlifting done properly requires little or no additional cardio to maintain low bodyfat - believe me, I'm easily maintaining fairly low bodyfat with 4 x weightlifting sessions a week at 1.5 - 2 hours a pop. I work in singles mostly, maybe some doubles on the warm-ups and some triples if I'm going super light or doing power snatches. Squats and step-ups are the only 'high' rep lifts and those are done to a max of 5. Weightlifting is true full-body work - see Ivan Stoitsov for e.g. Ok, granted we don't know the ins and outs of his training and can't deduce too much from an admittedly gratuitous photo but I know myself that certainly in the lighter classed homegrown lifters there are some phenomenal physiques around.

Vegeta wrote:

I see the Starting Strength program has power cleans in it so I gave them a shot and think they are a cool exercise which I'd like to get better at.

It might be an idea to get someone in the know to look over your lifts when you start out - weightlifting is all technique and while you can get away with less than perfect form, the better you are the more effective a lifter you'll be, and the quicker your numbers will go up. Especially in lifts like power cleans the tendency is to muscle-up the bar as opposed to truly powering it up with hip drive. Heck, I'm guilty of it myself but I'm improving steadily under guidance.

BossArky

g'em wrote: »

Kudos on the choice of exercise btw, are you doing much weightlifting in your workouts?

Vegeta wrote: »

Its all weightlifting at the moment :pac: I really do need to do a bit of cardio actually

Mainly doing Squat, Deadlift, bench and I have the lovely olympic type rings and am doing dips n chins on them (I'm oh so pathetic at chins of any variety)

I think g'em means to ask if you are doing much Olympic weighlifting (powercleans, snatch stuff) as opposed to powerlifting (bench, squat, deads).

Thanks Vegeta and everyone. You started and answered a thread that I was about to create.

Vegeta

g'em wrote: »

Weightlifting done properly requires little or no additional cardio to maintain low bodyfat -

I'd mainly be doing cardio just to be more economical with oxygen, getting out of breath a little too easily for my liking these days.

It might be an idea to get someone in the know to look over your lifts when you start out - weightlifting is all technique and while you can get away with less than perfect form, the better you are the more effective a lifter you'll be, and the quicker your numbers will go up. Especially in lifts like power cleans the tendency is to muscle-up the bar as opposed to truly powering it up with hip drive. Heck, I'm guilty of it myself but I'm improving steadily under guidance.

I very well may do this, me ma got a video recorder for xmas so when I do have the grip down I might post for advice on the rest.

Thanks again folks

Vegeta

BossArky wrote: »

I think g'em means to ask if you are doing much Olympic weighlifting (powercleans, snatch stuff) as opposed to powerlifting (bench, squat, deads).

Ahhhhhh I see, I'm not very down with the lingo kids are using these days. No the only thing I'd remotely call part of an Olympic lift is my pathetic power cleans.

Thanks Vegeta and everyone. You started and answered a thread that I was about to create.

No bother [Simpsons quote] just send the cheque to Jesus, care of the Pentagon [/Simpsons quote] and it'll get to me

g'em

Vegeta wrote: »

Ahhhhhh I see, I'm not very down with the lingo kids are using these days.

Don't worry, my mistake, I'm a weightlifting terminology snob these days

Vegeta wrote:

No the only thing I'd remotely call part of an Olympic lift is my pathetic power cleans.

Everyone starts out with pathetic weights, and I mean everyone. It's all technique, technique, technique. Get that right and you're laughing. Once you can get the power cleans there's a whole world of weightlifting lifts that will open up to you... snatches, power snatches, snatch pulls, hang snatches, hang cleans, power cleans, cleans, power jerks, push jerks, push presses

wasabi

g'em wrote: »

Weightlifting done properly requires little or no additional cardio to maintain low bodyfat - believe me, I'm easily maintaining fairly low bodyfat with 4 x weightlifting sessions a week at 1.5 - 2 hours a pop. I work in singles mostly, maybe some doubles on the warm-ups and some triples if I'm going super light or doing power snatches. Squats and step-ups are the only 'high' rep lifts and those are done to a max of 5. Weightlifting is true full-body work - see Ivan Stoitsov for e.g. Ok, granted we don't know the ins and outs of his training and can't deduce too much from an admittedly gratuitous photo but I know myself that certainly in the lighter classed homegrown lifters there are some phenomenal physiques around.

Well, Ivan Stoitsov was likely training as the Bulgarian team usually did with at least 8-10 sessions a week of mostly singles at a high % of max, and mainly the competition lifts and front squatting. Sadly, he was also taking steroids and was caught with most of the rest of the Bulgarian team last year.

Personally I find only doing weightlifting for training will make me put on weight if I'm not careful with the eating. I'm 3kg heavier than last year although I seem to have a good bit more leg and back muscle too so that may account for most of it.

The advice below on getting to the rack position is all good - I'd also add that you might be best waiting till you have mastered front squatting with a good position to go at all heavy on power cleans, catching a clean with elbows down is not good for the wrists at all. Work on your rack position a few minutes every session and you should have it in no time.

g'em

wasabi wrote: »

Well, Ivan Stoitsov was likely training as the Bulgarian team usually did with at least 8-10 sessions a week of mostly singles at a high % of max, and mainly the competition lifts and front squatting. Sadly, he was also taking steroids and was caught with most of the rest of the Bulgarian team last year.

You, lady, are a spoilsport You did, however, very recently provide me with chocolatey-protein goodness in bar-shaped form so it's all good in the grand scheme of things.

wasabi wrote:

I'd also add that you might be best waiting till you have mastered front squatting with a good position to go at all heavy on power cleans, catching a clean with elbows down is not good for the wrists at all.

Great point.

That's very upsetting. I was thoroughly enjoying reading this thread and when G'em posted http://stronglifts.com/wp-content/uploads/ivan-stoitsov.jpg . I had found a new idol (if anything purely because of his Quads and his ridiculous 8 pack) and then I read he took steroids and I feel I'm missing out. I want steroids now!!!!

Cravez

I was actually looking for information regarding this also, was sick of doing the old 'cross arms' with the bar for front squats with anything over 100kg. Cheers!

Hanley

Deleted User wrote: »

That's very upsetting. I was thoroughly enjoying reading this thread and when G'em posted http://stronglifts.com/wp-content/uploads/ivan-stoitsov.jpg . I had found a new idol (if anything purely because of his Quads and his ridiculous 8 pack) and then I read he took steroids and I feel I'm missing out. I want steroids now!!!!

Yeah, because steroidsare the difference there.

Colm_OReilly

It's a sad fact that most, if not all, elite Olympians need steroids to compete.

That doesn't detract from the effecacy of their training, nor does it mean they don't have to regulate their diet too.

Hanley

Hanley wrote: »

Yeah, because steroidsare the difference there.

Explain yourself

Roper

IMO he'd still be in the same shape if he didn't take roids. Athletes like him don't take gear to look hooge they take to recover, repair and train twice a day.

Doesn't make it not cheating but I just wanted to distinguish him from someone who takes something just to be bigger than the other guy.

wasabi

Well to be fair Barry his quads and physique in general are amazing even for an elite weightlifter. Not that I spend my evenings checking out pictures of hot elite weightlifters or anything. *ahem*

I knew a South African guy who took steroids. He was about 6'3 or 6'4 and 16 stone and ripped year round. He told me that he works out for like 5 or 6 weeks per YEAR and would take steroids (not sure which ones) but I remember him telling me about how on the side of the box, it would have directions for whether it would be for a Pony or a Horse. lol

Anyway, the results HE TOLD me were quite shocking. He'd put on so much mass in that 6 week period(don't want to say what I think the figure was as I kind of forget the exact figure) in such a short space of times that he would be unable to sleep because of the pains in his body. The shocking thing is though, that really lean muscular physique according to him was easily achieveable with steroids. I'm not saying this guy was a genius, he told me protein is a waste of time and useless and I was not going to argue with him.

g'em

Deleted User wrote: »

I knew a South African guy who took steroids. He was about 6'3 or 6'4 and 16 stone and ripped year round. He told me that he works out for like 5 or 6 weeks per YEAR and would take steroids (not sure which ones) but I remember him telling me about how on the side of the box, it would have directions for whether it would be for a Pony or a Horse. lol

Anyway, the results HE TOLD me were quite shocking. He'd put on so much mass in that 6 week period(don't want to say what I think the figure was as I kind of forget the exact figure) in such a short space of times that he would be unable to sleep because of the pains in his body. The shocking thing is though, that really lean muscular physique according to him was easily achieveable with steroids. I'm not saying this guy was a genius, he told me protein is a waste of time and useless and I was not going to argue with him.

He's lying.

Roper

g'em wrote: »

He's lying.

QFT!

Just FYI, my problems with steroids are:
1) People are uneducated and use them badly to do things like "look hawt" and "get hooge". They think they're a short cut and they make themselves sick.
2) They're for cheats in sports

Other than that, steroids when used properly are almost miracle drugs. Ask any vet.

Come to think of it, he did have a tendancy to over exaggerate.

spiral

OP I think between Colm, Hanley , Gem, Wasabi and Roper you have got a few tips here
Best thing is to have someone have a look in person can save you a lot of time and hassle.

Hanley

Deleted User wrote: »

Explain yourself

Stosiv is one of the preimer light/middle weights in the world. And he's Bulgarian.

First red flag - genetics.

I'm not soo sure how the Bulgarians are training currently, but in recent decades they've become infamous for the ungodly high volume they use. 6-10 sessions a day, 4-6x a week.

To survive that, never mind thrive, you have to have incredible genetics. And incredible genetics lead to an incredible physique when you train that much.

Second red flag - Breeding

Top weightlifters tend to be picked and nutured at a young age 8-12, and progressively brought thru the ranks. We've all seen the ironmind video of the 14 year old chinese kid who weighs 60ish kg clean and jerking 110 (I think). And if you haven't seen the vid, go find it. It's amazing.

Third red flag - Superhuman work ethic

As I already said, they train more in a day than most people do in a month. To be capable of that you HAVE to sleep, breathe, eat, drink, live and dream about weightlifting. You just have to.

And that's not enough, as soon as you take your foot off the gas there's 10 other guys in your weight class who can take your place off you. It's 100% effort 100% of the time.


I don't mean to give out, but I genuinely don't think you understood the effort and work that went into getting where he is today. Notice how I didn't mention steroids once above? He used em, most of the Bulgarian team always has, but goddamnit they'd still be stronger and in better shape off the juice than 99.9% of the population takin anything they wanted.

wo wo wo wo. I know everything you just said there - well not a clue about the Bulgarians or there training etc but I get your point about how steroids don't make you superhuman. I always had that stance. In fact, it was only a few hours ago (on youtube) I posted something identical to what you just posted to me there to some n00b who said that Coleman got to where he was by being juiced up to the gills all the time which is simply not true.

My earlier post "i want steroids now" was just a joke.

Hanley

Deleted User wrote: »

wo wo wo wo. I know everything you just said there - well not a clue about the Bulgarians or there training etc but I get your point about how steroids don't make you superhuman. I always had that stance. In fact, it was only a few hours ago (on youtube) I posted something identical to what you just posted to me there to some n00b who said that Coleman got to where he was by being juiced up to the gills all the time which is simply not true.

My earlier post "i want steroids now" was just a joke.

Now I'm even more confused!!!

Anyway, you can look amazing without drugs, and Id love to look like Stosiv too. But lets face it, he's more genetically gifted and trains hard than both of us!!

Happy enough with thaT?

Hanley

Hanley wrote: »

Now I'm even more confused!!!

Anyway, you can look amazing without drugs, and Id love to look like Stosiv too. But lets face it, he's more genetically gifted and trains hard than both of us!!

Happy enough with thaT?

Very much so. I just think his quads and abs in particular look sick.

On a side note, when is it possible to realise who has the genetics and who doesn't? How soon after training is it possible to realise?

Mikel

Hanley wrote: »

I'm not soo sure how the Bulgarians are training currently, but in recent decades they've become infamous for the ungodly high volume they use. 6-10 sessions a day, 4-6x a week.

As I already said, they train more in a day than most people do in a month. To be capable of that you HAVE to sleep, breathe, eat, drink, live and dream about weightlifting. You just have to.

And that's not enough, as soon as you take your foot off the gas there's 10 other guys in your weight class who can take your place off you. It's 100% effort 100% of the time.

I don't mean to give out, but I genuinely don't think you understood the effort and work that went into getting where he is today. Notice how I didn't mention steroids once above? He used em, most of the Bulgarian team always has, but goddamnit they'd still be stronger and in better shape off the juice than 99.9% of the population takin anything they wanted.

I think that's why those of a powerlifting/BB persuasion sometimes get indignant when a particular athlete is dismissed in that 'Sure he's on drugs' kind of way.
The steroids are not a way of cutting corners but of allowing someone to train longer and harder than would be otherwise possible.
I suppose that's why some are more ambivalent towards their use than others