How to become a train driver in Ireland

lynchiered

Thanks for the posts guys, I have come to the conclusion that i've very little chance of becoming a train driver.
I think the system in place in C.I.E at the moment is ridiculous considering the amount of tax payers money thats pumped in the company.

parsi

lynchiered wrote: »

Thanks for the posts guys, I have come to the conclusion that i've very little chance of becoming a train driver.
I think the system in place in C.I.E at the moment is ridiculous considering the amount of tax payers money thats pumped in the company.

I think the subsidy is not really related to the method of recuiting the small number of drivers required each year.

Technically it's a fairlyclosedjob but I don't see that taxpayers money would be better spent in having the Public Appointments Commssion running a cmpetition for train drivers...

antoinolachtnai

Nepotism in the public sector is wrong.

Nepotism is widely considered to be an improper business practice. As such, it is forbidden by the CIE code of ethics.

It is impractical to comply with the equality legislation whilst operating a policy of nepotism.

Nepotism disadvantages the company because it results in the company having a smaller group of candidates from which to choose employees for a critical safety role.

Jobs should be awarded on merit.

If you have been discriminated against in this way, you should certainly take it up with your TD and your union.

HydeRoad

Nepotism is an old fashioned policy, with it's origins as described earlier in much simpler times, when life was much different, and different operating circumstances applied.

The world has moved on, and we are towards the end of a great transition period, when a lot of things that were once taken for granted, have been turned on their heads.

A small few cloistered institutions remain, that naturally enough will kick and scream a bit as their old fashioned methods are drawn into the 21st century.

Change is inevitable.

DWCommuter

Nepotism on Irish Railways started long before CIE. They simply inherited the tradition and refused/failed to abolish it. It is a union driven culture. Throughout railway history, the role and status of a driver has been elevated to a rediculous degree.

Theres a book available called "Dublin Voices". Its a series of interviews with old Dubliners with old trades and traditions. One of them is a train driver from Inchicore. If you read it, you gain a first hand and in dept understanding of how ****ing bonkers the whole thing is, considering we have retained the same policy in the 21st century.

For generations Train drivers have thought they were special. Maybe in the 19th century when it was a completely new invention, but Mickey Flynn driving the DART is no different to Johnny O'Brien the electrician, Spud O'donnell driving the 122 to Drimnagh or Jamesy Toibin from Bluecabs. Astronauts are the 21st century equivilent to 19th century train drivers. They have a right to feel special. But somewhere along the way train drivers forgot that things moved on and they aren't in charge of an intergalactic cruiser on the way to Billy Butlins latest holiday camp on Saturn. Its a well established job/trade with blanket safety coverage and modern technology. The responsibility factor is exaggerated.

parsi

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Nepotism in the public sector is wrong.
.

Nepotism in any sector is wrong.

crocro

Dart driver has to be one of the best jobs in Ireland. 50K basic 60K easy with overtime. Recession proof. Great pension. No effort. No skill. Just stop and go. Radio. Sandwiches. Coffee. Never leave Dublin.

Ticktactoe

alpha2zulu wrote: »

Completely agree with you regarding the responsibility of the job, a full intercity could potentially be carrying more people than a full 747 .

+1

Its not as easy or cushy as it may appear. Its mentaly draining and with night shifts is phyically draining. The responsibilty is unbelievable even so far to say that breaking a rule could lead to been imprisoned (That used to be the way not sure if it still exists today). I grew up in the household of a train driver and by no means could i say the job is easy. It is even difficult on the family especially dealing with the repercussions of death on the line. Every job is tough and so is this one.... its not as easy as just sitting and driving. Train drivers put in hard work like the rest of us in employment. :rolleyes:

crocro

crocro wrote: »

Dart driver has to be one of the best jobs in Ireland. 50K basic 60K easy with overtime. Recession proof. Great pension. No effort. No skill. Just stop and go. Radio. Sandwiches. Coffee. Never leave Dublin.

But there is a (very real) risk of suffering a traumatic event such as witnessing a suicide so it has the potential to really screw you up, though that's true of any driver not just DART.

I'd be more interested in intercity driving myself but I wouldn't turn down a DART position if offered it.

Ham'nd'egger

Ticktactoe wrote: »

+1

Its not as easy or cushy as it may appear. Its mentaly draining and with night shifts is phyically draining. The responsibilty is unbelievable even so far to say that breaking a rule could lead to been imprisoned (That used to be the way not sure if it still exists today). I grew up in the household of a train driver and by no means could i say the job is easy. It is even difficult on the family especially dealing with the repercussions of death on the line. Every job is tough and so is this one.... its not as easy as just sitting and driving. Train drivers put in hard work like the rest of us in employment. :rolleyes:

I do know of a few train drivers who have been retired early due to stress levels threatening their health.

Ticktactoe

Hamndegger wrote: »

I do know of a few train drivers who have been retired early due to stress levels threatening their health.

Quite a number do as there is a manditory medical examination for drivers every year or so (not sure how often but it is within a couple of years anyway).

dowlingm

Let's not conflate two issues folks. Whether train driving should be a closed shop is a different issue from whether it's a cushy number. In fact, I agree it's not a cushy number and that's why we need the best available applicants, not just those who have served time being rude to customers in Maynooth ticket offices.

Nostradamus

It's a cushy number if you are operating the "commuter" train on the Nenagh line. It's more stressfull being a DART driver.

Either one should be not be a closed nepotistic job-for-life supported by taxpayers.

Ticktactoe

dowlingm wrote: »

Let's not conflate two issues folks. Whether train driving should be a closed shop is a different issue from whether it's a cushy number. In fact, I agree it's not a cushy number and that's why we need the best available applicants, not just those who have served time being rude to customers in Maynooth ticket offices.

I agree it is very hard to get into the train driving employment especially in previous years. To be allowed to sit the exam you had to serve on the railway for a number of years and as far as i know be nominated to go for the exam. In recent years it is open to anyone employed or not employed by the service.

Heisenberg1

Nostradamus wrote: »

Unfortunately Irish Rail/CIE unions have taken nepotism to astronomical degreees. Technically it is possible to join and become a train driver, but that's like saying anyone can become President of the USA. It's all about family, connections and bloodlines.

Until 10 years ago just about every train driver in Ireland was from a cluster of families based in Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Claremorris, Waterford and Athlone. This is how the ILDA strike was so devastating to railfreight - the "brothers" and I mean this literally in many cases were looking out for one another. They will claim to be socialists till they are blue in the face but in reality you are dealing with the same bloodline dynamics one comes across in royal families and big business. It's just as self serving too.

Barring a family secret hidden in your DNA, ff you want to drive a train in Ireland this is your best hope:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000B6FIAK/shopping-vg-21/ref=nosim

Sorry for being so negative but this is fact of the matter. Being a train driver in Ireland is some form of bloodrite handed from fathers to sons. They will claim it isn't and will cite recent DART and Arrow drivers who are not from train driving families but this is misleading as many of them were long term CIE employees anyways and many of them got their jobs via their family.

i will agree in the past it was very hard to get any job in I.E but that all changed about ten years ago.

Heisenberg1

lynchiered wrote: »

Hi,
I've had the sudden urge to become a train driver. .I've no idea how expensive it is or wat route to take can someone help?

Sorry if they're basic questions, but I did have a look on some sites and couldnt find the answers...

Regards

Paul

first of all you must be an employee with irish rail and then when a vacancy comes up you applie for it and thats it

luzon

luzon wrote: »

first of all you must be an employee with irish rail and then when a vacancy comes up you applie for it and thats it

That's pretty much what I heard. Just that with the current bloat in the public sector and the "credit crunch" they haven't been taking on many people from the outside for a long while.

Judgement Day

There has been a lot of crap talked on this thread about nepotism and how cushy it is to be a train driver and how it is a closed shop to outsiders. I am amazed - and perhaps not - that no rail driver has responded to such drivel.

On one side of my family my great grandfather, grandfather and two of his brothers worked for a real Irish railway company - one which CIE never got their grubby paws on - it was a family tradition much as say working in Guinness's or, dare I say it, Waterford Glass! It had little to do with it being a closed shop to outsiders it was a way of life and it was quite natural for sons to follow fathers into the railway workforce. These days that tradition has largely died out as people want easier jobs with more pay and better hours and conditions. IE management are only too delighted to see the end of the tradition as, God forbid, we should have a railway operated by people with a long term commitment to the job. :mad:

Terrontress

Judgement Day wrote: »

There has been a lot of crap talked on this thread about nepotism and how cushy it is to be a train driver and how it is a closed shop to outsiders. I am amazed - and perhaps not - that no rail driver has responded to such drivel.

On one side of my family my great grandfather, grandfather and two of his brothers worked for a real Irish railway company - one which CIE never got their grubby paws on - it was a family tradition much as say working in Guinness's or, dare I say it, Waterford Glass! It had little to do with it being a closed shop to outsiders it was a way of life and it was quite natural for sons to follow fathers into the railway workforce. These days that tradition has largely died out as people want easier jobs with more pay and better hours and conditions. IE management are only too delighted to see the end of the tradition as, God forbid, we should have a railway operated by people with a long term commitment to the job. :mad:

Bord na Mona?

Ticktactoe

luzon wrote: »

first of all you must be an employee with irish rail and then when a vacancy comes up you applie for it and thats it

Does that still stand? I thought that changed a couple of years ago....

I phoned up the HR department in IE in the summer of 2006 and they told me I had to be already employed with the company, unless it's changed since then?

dowlingm

Judgement Day wrote: »

It had little to do with it being a closed shop to outsiders it was a way of life and it was quite natural for sons to follow fathers into the railway workforce.

Let's face it, any job where children follow parents in will have a natural advantage at the interview etc. - that's not a bad thing as such. My cousin just followed his dad into the Defence Forces and I'm sure his interview process was dead easy having his dad to let him know what's important to know about the job.

But it shouldn't be the case that motivated outsiders are shut out, and that they be forced to spend soul-destroying years in a ticket office waiting for buggins turn on a train driving course, especially if they have already learned how to drive trains for another company. Meanwhile some families might be pushing their kids into one of the few fairly permanent and pensionable employments (working for IE, not necessarily train driving) left in Ireland because of family connections when they have no real interest in working for IE.

Ham'nd'egger

dowlingm wrote: »

Let's face it, any job where children follow parents in will have a natural advantage at the interview etc. - that's not a bad thing as such. My cousin just followed his dad into the Defence Forces and I'm sure his interview process was dead easy having his dad to let him know what's important to know about the job.

But it shouldn't be the case that motivated outsiders are shut out, and that they be forced to spend soul-destroying years in a ticket office waiting for buggins turn on a train driving course, especially if they have already learned how to drive trains for another company. Meanwhile some families might be pushing their kids into one of the few fairly permanent and pensionable employments (working for IE, not necessarily train driving) left in Ireland because of family connections when they have no real interest in working for IE.

It is a good idea on paper but until there is a recognised international permit or licence to drive trains, experience in driving a train can't be applied with any degree of balance or confidence for any company to rely on. Locomotive types are very very different so it would be a logistic nightmare to write and be assured. Even then, the rule books and safety procedures vary greatly from company to company so the long training courses would still apply to satisfy insurance companies, the real blocker in such a proposal; Irish Rail would have very different procedures and workings to LUAS or even Translink. Thus far Irish Rail drivers safety records speak for themselves under the old system.

What about NIR? Does anyone know if they'd be the same?

Judgement Day

Terrontress wrote: »

Bord na Mona?

Since when has Bord na Mona been a railway company? The Co.Donegal Railway was the railway I was referring to but it could just as easily been the SLNCR or Dundalk, Newry & Greenore and there were others fortunate enough not to suffer the CIE embrace!

Ticktactoe

Karsini wrote: »

I phoned up the HR department in IE in the summer of 2006 and they told me I had to be already employed with the company, unless it's changed since then?

I thought it had.... will check it out and revert.

Ticktactoe

Ticktactoe wrote: »

I thought it had.... will check it out and revert.

I'd be very interested if this has changed, it's been my dream for quite a while now.

Judgement Day wrote: »

Since when has Bord na Mona been a railway company? The Co.Donegal Railway was the railway I was referring to but it could just as easily been the SLNCR or Dundalk, Newry & Greenore and there were others fortunate enough not to suffer the CIE embrace!

Bord na Móna have more miles of track in Ireland than IE do! They have narrow gauge railways used for the transportation of peat.

Wikipedia wrote:

An extensive network of narrow gauge railways is operated by the company in the midlands. It is often taken up and relaid as various plots are harvested or left aside. Some smaller sections of railway are used in other bog locations, for example in County Donegal. Bord na Móna has an extensive 2000 km (1200 mile) network, which has carried up to 5 million tonnes annually, and is larger than the main network (passenger and freight) operated by Iarnród Éireann. Bord na Móna has one of the largest industrial railways in Europe.

Part of the old railway in Clonmacnoise, County Offaly is now the Clonmacnoise and West Offaly Railway (colloquially the "Bog Train") having been set up to give the public a tour around part of the bog. One line of the railway system runs along a section of the former Ballinasloe branch canal. This includes a section where the railway runs through Kylemore Lough.

Victor

Hamndegger wrote: »

Irish Rail would have very different procedures and workings to LUAS or even Translink. Thus far Irish Rail drivers safety records speak for themselves under the old system.

It seems the Translink and Irish Rail rule books are very similar, although there are some differences in signalling and equipment.

Ham'nd'egger

Victor wrote: »

It seems the Translink and Irish Rail rule books are very similar, although there are some differences in signalling and equipment.

Not essentially so, Victor. The only common areas are in relation to the Dublin-Belfast workings; even then there is different callings on either side of the border from time to time.

Ham'nd'egger

Karsini wrote: »

I'd be very interested if this has changed, it's been my dream for quite a while now.


Bord na Móna have more miles of track in Ireland than IE do! They have narrow gauge railways used for the transportation of peat.

At one stage in the 1990's, Bord Na Mona operated Europe's largest industrial railway system and had over 1,000 miles of track!