Common Travel Zone - travelling to UK without passport

Red Sleeping Beauty

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It always amazes me how many people give out about it too. Does having your photo taken in an aiport really impose on your civil liberties? if you don't like it, you can always walk:D

Nah, I don't mind at all...

sure one photo
one finger print
one dna sample
one united states of europe


sure it's to fight these evil terrorists that are constantly trying to destroy our civil liberties....

sure, we have to fight them don't we ?

*rollseyes*
*rollseyes*
*rollseyes*

Red Sleeping Beauty

Coming back frmo Scotland the other day the person at the Passport check window was asking questions about my Garda Card. "Where are you coming from ? Did they let you travel on this Alan ? Oh really? I see".

I miss the Uk check point, much easier and quicker. Having to queue with people arriving frmo all over the world when you've just been in the UK is a bit of a pain.

Duffman

Thought I'd try this thread before posting a new one.

Can I use an age card (or worse, an old age card) for a BMI flight to LHR? I lost my passport at a rather unfortunate time.

Their rules refer to "National ID cards", does this count and has anyone actually done this?

Red Sleeping Beauty

Duffman wrote: »

Thought I'd try this thread before posting a new one.

Can I use an age card (or worse, an old age card) for a BMI flight to LHR? I lost my passport at a rather unfortunate time.

Their rules refer to "National ID cards", does this count and has anyone actually done this?

You should be able to get into the UK without any hassle. I flew last year to Heathrow on my age card. They've a seperate domestic/ROI arrivals.

Getting back into Ireland through Dublin airport is the problem. There's no seperate arrivals for Common Travel Area passengers - only Eu and All Passports. If you look Irish and have an Irish accent and maybe even some other card that suggests you're irish or at least living here then the Garda may wave you on.

Thing is though, the age card isn't proof of identity - it's meerly proof of age. Mind you , it says your name, has your picture and your D.O.B - I don't see what more you need to proof it's you.

Look at how much you'll have to pay if you need another passport :
http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=259

Standard passport : €80
Public Counter Urgent Fee : €55

Red Sleeping Beauty

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055073132

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055452357

Duffman

Thanks Alan Rouge, really appreciate the response.

Contacted BMI check-in (or at least Aviance which runs it) and they seemed to think any kind of card with my picture on it would be accepted. I think I'll chance it on the basis of this and the fact that you travelled on an age card before.

I could get a passport with the 24 hour service but if I can make it to the UK I'll save the €55 and have it posted to me when it's issued within the usual 10 working days or whatever.

The inconsistent rules among airlines are odd. I know Ryanair will only accept passports shortly.

On a related rant, the passport was dropped somewhere between immigration and arrivals. I'm a total idiot for letting this happen, I really am but I find it almost impossible to believe it wouldn't have been found. Lost passports make their way to the Airport Police fairly quickly. I worry that it must have been found and subsequently stolen

Red Sleeping Beauty

It's an odd one but as far as I can tell, if you look Irish and have the accent and plead your case to the Garda - but I was told that you don't need a passport to travel between here and the UK - then you may get through immigration at Dublin airport.

Look at the citizens information website :

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/moving-country/moving-abroad/freedom-of-movement-within-the-eu/common_travel_area_between_ireland_and_the_UK

Rules
The Common Travel Area means that there are no passport controls in operation for Irish and UK citizens travelling between the two countries. Since 1997, some controls are in effect on arrivals in Ireland from the UK but this does not mean that you are required to carry your Irish or UK passport with you when you travel between the countries. You must, however, carry an acceptable form of photo-identification, examples of which are listed below. (On arriving in Ireland you may sometimes be asked for valid official photo-identification such as a passport or driving licence which shows your nationality. This is to prove you are an Irish or UK citizen who is entitled to avail of the Common Travel Area arrangements.)

A valid passport
A driver's licence with photo
An international student card
A national ID card
A bus pass with photo
A Garda ID with photo
A work ID with photo

salamanca

Is it still ok to fly to Britain without a passport? I have a valid full driver's license.

I am due to fly Aer Lingus to the UK tomorrow and just realised passport has expired. Aer Lingus's ticket email says photo-id is all that is required between UK and Ireland. I have never flown without a passport before.

Our man in Havana

Aerlingus are ok with a drivers licence.

Ryanair on the other hand need a passport for all flights including internal flights.

Red Sleeping Beauty

salamanca wrote: »

Is it still ok to fly to Britain without a passport? I have a valid full driver's license.

I am due to fly Aer Lingus to the UK tomorrow and just realised passport has expired. Aer Lingus's ticket email says photo-id is all that is required between UK and Ireland. I have never flown without a passport before.

You more than likely won't even need to provide ID upon your arrival in the UK as most UK airports have seperate "UK, Channel Islands, Isle of Man & ROI" arrivals which don't have immigration.

Upon returning to Dublin airport (if that's where you're flying back to) however you need driver's licence or passport. Shame there isn't the same setup as the UK one. I think I read/heard that a third of arrivals to Dublin are from UK.

Davidth88

Goodness me , ancient thread.

Actually arriving at DUB from the UK in theory all you need is your boarding pass. I have done it , but not for a while ( maybe 6 months ) because usually it's just as easy to produce your p/port.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Davidth88 wrote: »

Goodness me , ancient thread.

Actually arriving at DUB from the UK in theory all you need is your boarding pass. I have done it , but not for a while ( maybe 6 months ) because usually it's just as easy to produce your p/port.

The Garda have been pretty "thorough" I suppose you could say, in the last 6months to a year. Each time I've produced boarding pass and Garda ID I've been giving the full inquisition and told I need a passport or driver's licence.

It's a very grey area - you don't need a passport because of the common travel area but only Irish and British citizens are to avail of it and you have to prove you're one or the other and if you're Irish the only way to do that is Passport or driver's licence.

Our man in Havana

Even a driving licence is not enough to prove citizenship of the CTA according to one Garda I met at the airport one day. Only a passport will do or driving licence supported by other documents such as a birth cert.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Bond-007 wrote: »

Even a driving licence is not enough to prove citizenship of the CTA according to one Garda I met at the airport one day. Only a passport will do or driving licence supported by other documents such as a birth cert.

Really? Hmm.. I've seen many people use their Driver's licence. I think it is (or was) accepted because of Ireland's citizenship laws - you were born here ergo you were a citizen automatically - at least until McDowell's Citizenship Bill Act 2004 came into effect Jan 1st 2005.

Our man in Havana

I personally suspect that Garda was being awkward for the sake of being awkward.

Red Sleeping Beauty

More than likely. There's a few of them NIB Garda in Dublin Aiport that can get very cranky. Maybe it was an off-day.

robinph

A friend has proved his "citizenship" by the cop looking up his name in the local phone book on a flight into the UK before after the passport getting lost whilst away.

I've been tempted to mislay my passport between going past the Ryanair boarding and the Garda desk in Dublin before and was wondering if anyone had got in with their boarding card before. All you need to prove is that you came of a flight from the UK and that your not from some other foreign land, not quite true but anyway.

lynchie

robinph wrote: »

A friend has proved his "citizenship" by the cop looking up his name in the local phone book on a flight into the UK before after the passport getting lost whilst away.

I've been tempted to mislay my passport between going past the Ryanair boarding and the Garda desk in Dublin before and was wondering if anyone had got in with their boarding card before. All you need to prove is that you came of a flight from the UK and that your not from some other foreign land, not quite true but anyway.

I got in with a bus id before. Had my passport in my pocket but wasnt gonna show him it to see what he said. Asked for my passport, told him I was traveling from the UK and that I was an Irish citizen. He then said how do I know your an Irish citizen? Told him he could have my pps number if he wanted, then he just waved me on!

Red Sleeping Beauty

robinph wrote: »

A friend has proved his "citizenship" by the cop looking up his name in the local phone book on a flight into the UK before after the passport getting lost whilst away.

You can't be serious, that actually worked?
Them NIB Garda are weird. I used to always pass through with my Garda Age Card and the type of response I got would depend on the person. Some of them would look at it and ask a few questions and kinda shrug and say "go on" while others were a bit more authorative and demanding a passport. When that happened he asked did I have anything else so I produced my European Health Card, HSE medical card, library cards etc.

I've been tempted to mislay my passport between going past the Ryanair boarding and the Garda desk in Dublin before and was wondering if anyone had got in with their boarding card before. All you need to prove is that you came of a flight from the UK and that your not from some other foreign land, not quite true but anyway.

Well as I said, this common travel thing is supposed to only apply to Irish and British citizens... I think. It's bonkers though, entering the UK you're welcomed open arms, no checks and it's all grand. In contrast Dublin airport's a nightmare

Kotek Besar

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Well as I said, this common travel thing is supposed to only apply to Irish and British citizens... I think. It's bonkers though, entering the UK you're welcomed open arms, no checks and it's all grand. In contrast Dublin airport's a nightmare

Because the UKBA realise that Northern Ireland causes a massive immigration loophole for both Ireland and the UK, so checking passengers arriving in Britain from Ireland is absolutely pointless.

The GNIB haven't quite figured that out yet though.

undo

I always thought it was highly Ironic that you don't need a passport if you are UK or Irish citizen - but you need a passport to prove that .

I have UK and Polish citizenship and a German driving license. In theory, I should be able to travel between Ireland and the UK using my driving license alone - it is an official form of photo ID after all. But who is going to believe a guy with a German license that he is British? I could take my UK passport with me but that is big, bulky and inconvenient. And so I end up taking my Polish national ID card. It is credit-card sized and as good as a passport for travel anywhere within the EU. But when I get to Dublin airport, I now sometimes get that "you are an unwelcome Polish immigrant stealing our jobs" look. Common travel area my arse... they are making it too difficult and painful to avail of.

Our man in Havana

I remember a few years ago, you could simply make a verbal declaration of citizenship and be allowed pass, so simply saying you were Irish or British was enough to pass without any documents. I was arriving in Shannon one day from the UK, and I was asked what nationality I was. I answered Irish and walked on. The Garda roared "come back here you Yank!" Now, I had lived in the states for a while. I went back and was told that the penalty for a false declaration was 5 years in prison and would I like to change my declaration. I said no and took out my Irish passport. He examined it very carefully and threw it back at me. Not so much as an apology.

Kotek Besar

undo wrote: »

I always thought it was highly Ironic that you don't need a passport if you are UK or Irish citizen - but you need a passport to prove that .

Not necessarily. A driving licence or [photographic ID + birth certificate] is proof of citizenship if born either in Ireland before 1st Jan 2005 or in the UK before 1st Jan 1983. No passport required.

undo wrote: »

I have UK and Polish citizenship and a German driving license. In theory, I should be able to travel between Ireland and the UK using my driving license alone - it is an official form of photo ID after all.

Depends on where and when you were born. If your driving licence shows that you were born in the UK prior to 1st Jan 1983 then yes, otherwise no.

undo wrote: »

so I end up taking my Polish national ID card. It is credit-card sized and as good as a passport for travel anywhere within the EU.

I agree. Hopefully Ireland will issue National ID cards to it's citizens, some day. (Only once the UK has done it first, mind ).

Kotek Besar

For the sake of correctness, would it possible to correct the name of this thread, from Common Travel Zone to Common Travel Area? :P

Red Sleeping Beauty

Bond-007 wrote: »

I remember a few years ago, you could simply make a verbal declaration of citizenship and be allowed pass, so simply saying you were Irish or British was enough to pass without any documents. I was arriving in Shannon one day from the UK, and I was asked what nationality I was. I answered Irish and walked on. The Garda roared "come back here you Yank!" Now, I had lived in the states for a while. I went back and was told that the penalty for a false declaration was 5 years in prison and would I like to change my declaration. I said no and took out my Irish passport. He examined it very carefully and threw it back at me. Not so much as an apology.

Feck sake, they've a serious chip on their shoulder don't they? If only we could complain or something :rolleyes: (yeah fat lot of use that'd do)

undo wrote: »

I always thought it was highly Ironic that you don't need a passport if you are UK or Irish citizen - but you need a passport to prove that .

I have UK and Polish citizenship and a German driving license. In theory, I should be able to travel between Ireland and the UK using my driving license alone - it is an official form of photo ID after all. But who is going to believe a guy with a German license that he is British? I could take my UK passport with me but that is big, bulky and inconvenient. And so I end up taking my Polish national ID card. It is credit-card sized and as good as a passport for travel anywhere within the EU. But when I get to Dublin airport, I now sometimes get that "you are an unwelcome Polish immigrant stealing our jobs" look. Common travel area my arse... they are making it too difficult and painful to avail of.

Yeah see we should have them. I thikn something similar was mooted a few years ago but of course Fianna Fail and the PDs had to make it out that they were compulsory identifcation cards and went all 1984 about it. Bloody pillocks.

undo

Many countries have ID cards and they work very well. I do not see much chance of an Irish national ID card in the near future though.

The problem is that Irish politicians will only do it if the UK goes first. And in the UK, any push for national ID is always linked to some massive database of everything about everyone. Total citizen surveillance. No wonder people are opposed to the system. In this form, I am opposed to it myself.

What is needed is a simple piece of plastic that confirms you are a citizen of the respective country (UK/Ireland). Just like a passport. That's all. The whole Big Brother database is not in any citizen's interest. So until that stupid idea dies, there will always be massive opposition to ID cards in both Ireland and the UK.

@ Kotek Besar: I was born outside the UK. My parents are British alright but were living abroad at the time. So no joy, my driving license is no good as proof of UK citizenship.

Red Sleeping Beauty

undo wrote: »

Many countries have ID cards and they work very well. I do not see much chance of an Irish national ID card in the near future though.

The problem is that Irish politicians will only do it if the UK goes first. And in the UK, any push for national ID is always linked to some massive database of everything about everyone. Total citizen surveillance. No wonder people are opposed to the system. In this form, I am opposed to it myself.

What is needed is a simple piece of plastic that confirms you are a citizen of the respective country (UK/Ireland). Just like a passport. That's all. The whole Big Brother database is not in any citizen's interest. So until that stupid idea dies, there will always be massive opposition to ID cards in both Ireland and the UK.

Yep and they'd have to be biometric and have your fingerprint or some such silly futuristic Philip K Dick kinda crap.

Kotek Besar

undo wrote: »

@ Kotek Besar: I was born outside the UK. My parents are British alright but were living abroad at the time. So no joy, my driving license is no good as proof of UK citizenship.

Proof of British citizenship in your case then, would be photographic ID + birth cert + the birth cert of one of your parents*.

*assuming that parent was born in the UK.

undo

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Proof of British citizenship in your case then, would be photographic ID + birth cert + the birth cert of one of your parents*.

*assuming that parent was born in the UK.

I think I will go with my Polish ID card and the occasional odd look instead .

Raskolnikov

So Ryanair no longer allow you to travel between Ireland and the UK on a full driving licence? Link?