Common Travel Zone - travelling to UK without passport

Red Sleeping Beauty

*Mods - I've no idea where to put this thread, please move it if it's better suited elsewhere.*



I remember either last year or early this year that there were headlines that the common travel zone between Ireland and the UK was to be tightened and you'll need a passport to travel to the UK. Is there any word on this ?


At present only Aer Lingus let you fly to the UK on generic identification -Ryanair say "passport or full driver's license". At present I use my Garda card as I've no passport and won't be getting one unless I'm travelling outside the UK.

I can't see anything on Aer Lingus' site about any new developments. Mind you their site hardly ever has any important news...

FlutterinBantam

As I see it the requirement for certain ID at the moment is from the chosen carrier,for their purposes, and nothing to do with any formal immigration requirement.

The requirement for PP to the UK may come formally further down the line, but not yet afaik.

diverdriver

Ah Flutter beat me too it. He's right, don't confuse the airline's requirement for ID and official requirements. The airline just doesn't want to sell on their ticket for a mark up.

Fratton Fred

I'm pretty sure BMI will take a driver's licence or the like, so a Garda card should be fine. (If you are flying from Dublin).

andrewh5

The idea was floated of scrapping the ability to enter the UK from Ireland on a driving licence but it has not been finalised. The main sticking point is that residents in NI will also have to use passports to enter the UK and 'British' members of NI society will take severe umbrage at that.

Foggy43

Get a passport. It will make life easier for yourself. I agree with what the lads have said. What Aer Lingus want and airport security require can vary. Things change every few months. The last thing you want is to be caught by surprise.

vulcan57

In the summer of 2002 the wife, kids and myself flew to Stanstead from Dublin. The kids were all un 16 so didn't need ID but my wife had a Garda age card and Ryanair at first refused to let her fly saying that the only ID accepted was passport or drivers liscence. They eventually let us fly because we had bought the tickets before their change of policy. Just wondering how some here seem to be using the Garda age card still? We all have passports now anyway.

Stevek101

Last two times I was in the UK it was more like leaving Europe.

I noticed you know seem to have to give your boarding card with your passport number to security to get into the country and if you no longer have it you have to hand over your passport. Also in Gatwick all Irish people having their photograph taken!

Fratton Fred

Stevek101 wrote: »

Last two times I was in the UK it was more like leaving Europe.

I noticed you know seem to have to give your boarding card with your passport number to security to get into the country and if you no longer have it you have to hand over your passport. Also in Gatwick all Irish people having their photograph taken!

That must be peculiar to Gatwick, because at heathrow you just get off the plane and walk out of the airport. At stansted you just have to show your boarding card once you are off the plane to show you came from Ireland, then you skip the immigration desk. again no need for a passport. If you can't show your boarding card then how do they know where you have come from?

Everyone has their photo taken at the Heathrow and Gatwick, not just the Irish.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I'm pretty sure BMI will take a driver's licence or the like, so a Garda card should be fine. (If you are flying from Dublin).

ryanair will accept *full* license but not garda card. bmi baby say on their site that any official ID will do...

I'd prefare to get an ok from them first hand though,

Foggy43 wrote: »

Get a passport. It will make life easier for yourself. I agree with what the lads have said. What Aer Lingus want and airport security require can vary. Things change every few months. The last thing you want is to be caught by surprise.

No, I can't afford a passport and I don't need one at present. I try to keep up to date with this and I check the T&Cs each time I book with Aer Lingus to make sure their policy hasn't changed. I was posting this thread to see if anyone else had heard anything..

vulcan57 wrote: »

In the summer of 2002 the wife, kids and myself flew to Stanstead from Dublin. The kids were all un 16 so didn't need ID but my wife had a Garda age card and Ryanair at first refused to let her fly saying that the only ID accepted was passport or drivers liscence. They eventually let us fly because we had bought the tickets before their change of policy. Just wondering how some here seem to be using the Garda age card still? We all have passports now anyway.

Yeah, Ryanair will do that to you. I'm very surprised they let you on. The company policy has no problem in leaving people stranded. Rubbish service in my opinion, but that's for another day.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

That must be peculiar to Gatwick, because at heathrow you just get off the plane and walk out of the airport. At stansted you just have to show your boarding card once you are off the plane to show you came from Ireland, then you skip the immigration desk. again no need for a passport. If you can't show your boarding card then how do they know where you have come from?

Everyone has their photo taken at the Heathrow and Gatwick, not just the Irish.

I flew to and from Heathrow in Feb no hassles. Can't remember if anyone checked my ID though. Usually there's a special arrival gate for Brittish isles and ROI. If there's some sort of faux "terror threat" then they beef things up a bit.

Stevek101

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Everyone has their photo taken at the Heathrow and Gatwick, not just the Irish.

Three English citizens on front of me didn't have their photograph taken and never had.

Fratton Fred

Stevek101 wrote: »

Three English citizens on front of me didn't have their photograph taken and never had.

At Gatwick? the last couple of times I've flown through there I have had my photo taken. When they check your boarding card at security they wouldn't know what nationality you are would they?

Maybe I just look dodgy

(British Citizen by the way)

Foggy43

When your photgraph is taken it is tied in with your boarding pass number. When security check your boarding pass the second time they type in your boarding pass number and a photo comes up on their computer. It should be the photo of the boarding pass bearer.

Soon you will be finger printed to further back this up. People can look alike.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Fingerprinting ? Madness.

I suppose they'll get away with it too what with the non stop emminent terror threats


...that are non-existant

Fratton Fred

Foggy43 wrote: »

When your photgraph is taken it is tied in with your boarding pass number. When security check your boarding pass the second time they type in your boarding pass number and a photo comes up on their computer. It should be the photo of the boarding pass bearer.

Soon you will be finger printed to further back this up. People can look alike.

Are they bringing the iris system into t1 that they have in t5. That looks really cool.

Foggy43

Finger printing was supposed to start from day one in Terminal 5. It was put on hold and remains on hold due to possible legal human rights issues.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Human rights/civil liberties ? what you mean ?

pfft, a few more fake terror threats and sure the silen majority will vote to forgo these so called civil liberties.

Makes me fucking sick

Our man in Havana

I always when arriving at a UK airport simply go thru the EU/EEA passport gate and show my passport. It is frequently quicker than queuing up at the CTA gate which has to be unlocked by immigration.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Yeah James, UK airports have a Channel Islands and Eire Arrivals bay

Our man in Havana

Which I never use due to the delays involved when the gate is locked. Also such arrivals are under extra security surveillance.
Using the EU/EEA lane is faster.

WexCan

To clarify the situation in Gatwick:
On departure, all passengers travelling on Domestic or Irish flights get their photograph taken at the boarding pass screening part of security. A barcode is printed out and put on the back of your boarding. Each terminal has a specific domestic/Irish area, and you must present your boarding pass before you enter this area. They then scan the barcode and check that you are the same person who went through central search.

This is done because domestic/Irish passengers share the main departure lounge with international passengers, including those who are connecting and may not have a visa to enter the UK/Ireland. There is a danger of boarding-pass-swapping being done, thus avoiding immigration controls, particularly at domestic destinations. Most airlines will still check ID at the gate but some don't (British Airways springs to mind). You don't need your photograph taken at Heathrow (T1) because they have a dedicated domestic/Irish area.

On arrival in Gatwick from Ireland, at the South Terminal you need to show your boarding pass to get through the "Republic of Ireland/Channel Islands" gate. In the north terminal there's a dedicated domestic/Irish arrivals route that takes you straight to baggage reclaim.

The legally required ID for travel between the UK and Ireland includes passports, driving licences, work IDs, bus passes etc. Basically, something credible to prove you are who you say you are. Aer Lingus and British Airways will accept these.

Ryanair, on the other hand, insists on passport, national ID card or driving licence.

Foggy43

WexCan wrote: »

You don't need your photograph taken at Heathrow (T1) because they have a dedicated domestic/Irish area.

I'm afraid there is no longer a dedicated domestic/Irish departure area in Terminal 1 at Heathrow. It was closed in May this year. They use the international departure lounge. Aer Lingus check in has moved further down also. It's smile for the camera now. The person behind you as you approach security part 1 and 2, could be flying United Airlines or even Air New Zealand.

Edit! The actual Irish/Domestic gates are the same it is just all departure passengers mix until time to go to gate. Any possible chances of going to the wrong gate area should be picked up at Security part 3.

Our man in Havana

On arrival in Gatwick from Ireland, at the South Terminal you need to show your boarding pass to get through the "Republic of Ireland/Channel Islands" gate. In the north terminal there's a dedicated domestic/Irish arrivals route that takes you straight to baggage reclaim.

This would be similar to the set up in most UK airports. However in some airports such as STN there is a locked gate controlling the IRL/CI arrivals. Frequently a passenger has to go find someone to open the gate. This can sometimes take some time. I have found it easier and faster just to show my passport at the EU/EEA passport line and go straight thru to the baggage hall.

Red Sleeping Beauty

WexCan wrote: »

Ryanair, on the other hand, insists on passport, national ID card or driving licence.

From Ryanair's site :

All passengers must present valid photo identification at check-in for all flights. The only acceptable forms of photo-ID on Ryanair flights are:

• A valid passport (passport for travel outside the EEA must have six months validity beyond the date of entry).
• A valid National Identity Card issued by the government of a European Economic Area (EEA) country.
  - Only the following countries from the EEA issue National Identity Cards which are acceptable for carriage: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Finland, France, Germany, Gibraltar, Greece, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Italy, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Malta, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden (for travel within the Schengen area only) or Switzerland.
• For British and Irish citizens who are travelling on flights to/from the United Kingdom to/from the Republic of Ireland (Common Travel Area), a valid driving licence with photo is acceptable photo ID. Passengers who are citizens of other countries travelling on these routes must present a valid passport (with visa if applicable) or a National Identity Card issued by the government of a European Economic Area (EEA) country.
• A valid driving licence with photo is acceptable photo ID for travel on domestic flights. (Please note that driving licences are not accepted when passengers are using online check-in).
• In accordance with Article 28(1) of the 1951 UN Convention, a valid UN Refugee Convention Travel Document issued by a Government in place of a valid passport.
• In accordance with Article 27 of the 1954 UN Convention for Stateless Persons, a valid Convention Travel Document issued by a contracting state in place of a valid passport.

N.B. Children under 16 years (including infants) travelling with an adult are required to have photo-ID when travelling on flights between EEA countries. Acceptable photo-ID for children under 16 is either a valid passport or a valid National Identity Card issued by an EEA country. Children must always be travelling with the adult named on a visa vignette, if visa is applicable.

Residence cards, family books, seaman books or military ID cards etc. will NOT be accepted for travel in place of the required valid photo-ID detailed above.
Expired or damaged forms of photo-ID will not be accepted for any flight.
Failure to present valid photo-ID matching the names on your reservation will result in your being refused check-in.

I only fly to the UK and I've never flown with Ryanair because I only have a Garda card which Aer Lingus accepts as ID.
The above T&C's also say that you can't use your driving licence when checking in online. I always check in on Aer Lingus' site online then use my Garda card to fly to and from, no hassle, hence me enquiring if anyone knew if there's been any changes to the common travel zone rules.

Our man in Havana

No change to the common travel area rules.

Ryanair actually only accept a Full Driving Licence. A provisional is no use with Ryanair.

Terrontress

andrewh5 wrote: »

The idea was floated of scrapping the ability to enter the UK from Ireland on a driving licence but it has not been finalised. The main sticking point is that residents in NI will also have to use passports to enter the UK and 'British' members of NI society will take severe umbrage at that.

That is absolute nonsense. Given the fact that, whatever your political beliefs, Northern Ireland is legally part of the UK then I can't see how an NI resident could need a passport to enter a legal state they are already in.

The UK / ROI border is so porous it cannot be sealed, similar to Schengen and so the only way to police it is by spot checks and intelligence, carried out by the lads in the red Transit on the M1.

Our man in Havana

Terrontress wrote: »

That is absolute nonsense. Given the fact that, whatever your political beliefs, Northern Ireland is legally part of the UK then I can't see how an NI resident could need a passport to enter a legal state they are already in.

That was the original plan.

Terrontress wrote: »

The UK / ROI border is so porous it cannot be sealed.

Agreed, hence why the CTA is being kept.

Terrontress wrote: »

the lads in the red Transit on the M1.

Never heard of them. Where do they hang out?

Terrontress

Bond-007 wrote: »

Never heard of them. Where do they hang out?

On the M1 heading southbound, just after the border. There is a little office that they can pull people in to process. Apparently alot of taxis take non-EU nationals in need of a visa over the border.

Also, it's not uncommon for the Aircoach or Bus Eireann buses to get stopped as well as Garda Immigration officials to board the Enterprise at Newry and check passports between the border adn Dundalk.

Apparently some people now travel to Armagh on one bus, on to Monaghan on another and down to Dublin on a third.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Do these men in the red van ask you to say the alphabeat ?

Terrontress

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Do these men in the red van ask you to say the alphabeat ?

I wouldn't know man. I usually hide in the boot of the taxi so I have never talked to them.

Fratton Fred

Foggy43 wrote: »

I'm afraid there is no longer a dedicated domestic/Irish departure area in Terminal 1 at Heathrow. It was closed in May this year. They use the international departure lounge. Aer Lingus check in has moved further down also. It's smile for the camera now. The person behind you as you approach security part 1 and 2, could be flying United Airlines or even Air New Zealand.

Edit! The actual Irish/Domestic gates are the same it is just all departure passengers mix until time to go to gate. Any possible chances of going to the wrong gate area should be picked up at Security part 3.

It always amazes me how many people give out about it too. Does having your photo taken in an aiport really impose on your civil liberties? if you don't like it, you can always walk:D

Red Sleeping Beauty

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It always amazes me how many people give out about it too. Does having your photo taken in an aiport really impose on your civil liberties? if you don't like it, you can always walk:D

Nah, I don't mind at all...

sure one photo
one finger print
one dna sample
one united states of europe


sure it's to fight these evil terrorists that are constantly trying to destroy our civil liberties....

sure, we have to fight them don't we ?

*rollseyes*
*rollseyes*
*rollseyes*

Red Sleeping Beauty

Coming back frmo Scotland the other day the person at the Passport check window was asking questions about my Garda Card. "Where are you coming from ? Did they let you travel on this Alan ? Oh really? I see".

I miss the Uk check point, much easier and quicker. Having to queue with people arriving frmo all over the world when you've just been in the UK is a bit of a pain.

Duffman

Thought I'd try this thread before posting a new one.

Can I use an age card (or worse, an old age card) for a BMI flight to LHR? I lost my passport at a rather unfortunate time.

Their rules refer to "National ID cards", does this count and has anyone actually done this?

Red Sleeping Beauty

Duffman wrote: »

Thought I'd try this thread before posting a new one.

Can I use an age card (or worse, an old age card) for a BMI flight to LHR? I lost my passport at a rather unfortunate time.

Their rules refer to "National ID cards", does this count and has anyone actually done this?

You should be able to get into the UK without any hassle. I flew last year to Heathrow on my age card. They've a seperate domestic/ROI arrivals.

Getting back into Ireland through Dublin airport is the problem. There's no seperate arrivals for Common Travel Area passengers - only Eu and All Passports. If you look Irish and have an Irish accent and maybe even some other card that suggests you're irish or at least living here then the Garda may wave you on.

Thing is though, the age card isn't proof of identity - it's meerly proof of age. Mind you , it says your name, has your picture and your D.O.B - I don't see what more you need to proof it's you.

Look at how much you'll have to pay if you need another passport :
http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=259

Standard passport : €80
Public Counter Urgent Fee : €55

Red Sleeping Beauty

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055073132

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055452357

Duffman

Thanks Alan Rouge, really appreciate the response.

Contacted BMI check-in (or at least Aviance which runs it) and they seemed to think any kind of card with my picture on it would be accepted. I think I'll chance it on the basis of this and the fact that you travelled on an age card before.

I could get a passport with the 24 hour service but if I can make it to the UK I'll save the €55 and have it posted to me when it's issued within the usual 10 working days or whatever.

The inconsistent rules among airlines are odd. I know Ryanair will only accept passports shortly.

On a related rant, the passport was dropped somewhere between immigration and arrivals. I'm a total idiot for letting this happen, I really am but I find it almost impossible to believe it wouldn't have been found. Lost passports make their way to the Airport Police fairly quickly. I worry that it must have been found and subsequently stolen

Red Sleeping Beauty

It's an odd one but as far as I can tell, if you look Irish and have the accent and plead your case to the Garda - but I was told that you don't need a passport to travel between here and the UK - then you may get through immigration at Dublin airport.

Look at the citizens information website :

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/moving-country/moving-abroad/freedom-of-movement-within-the-eu/common_travel_area_between_ireland_and_the_UK

Rules
The Common Travel Area means that there are no passport controls in operation for Irish and UK citizens travelling between the two countries. Since 1997, some controls are in effect on arrivals in Ireland from the UK but this does not mean that you are required to carry your Irish or UK passport with you when you travel between the countries. You must, however, carry an acceptable form of photo-identification, examples of which are listed below. (On arriving in Ireland you may sometimes be asked for valid official photo-identification such as a passport or driving licence which shows your nationality. This is to prove you are an Irish or UK citizen who is entitled to avail of the Common Travel Area arrangements.)

A valid passport
A driver's licence with photo
An international student card
A national ID card
A bus pass with photo
A Garda ID with photo
A work ID with photo

salamanca

Is it still ok to fly to Britain without a passport? I have a valid full driver's license.

I am due to fly Aer Lingus to the UK tomorrow and just realised passport has expired. Aer Lingus's ticket email says photo-id is all that is required between UK and Ireland. I have never flown without a passport before.

Our man in Havana

Aerlingus are ok with a drivers licence.

Ryanair on the other hand need a passport for all flights including internal flights.

Red Sleeping Beauty

salamanca wrote: »

Is it still ok to fly to Britain without a passport? I have a valid full driver's license.

I am due to fly Aer Lingus to the UK tomorrow and just realised passport has expired. Aer Lingus's ticket email says photo-id is all that is required between UK and Ireland. I have never flown without a passport before.

You more than likely won't even need to provide ID upon your arrival in the UK as most UK airports have seperate "UK, Channel Islands, Isle of Man & ROI" arrivals which don't have immigration.

Upon returning to Dublin airport (if that's where you're flying back to) however you need driver's licence or passport. Shame there isn't the same setup as the UK one. I think I read/heard that a third of arrivals to Dublin are from UK.

Davidth88

Goodness me , ancient thread.

Actually arriving at DUB from the UK in theory all you need is your boarding pass. I have done it , but not for a while ( maybe 6 months ) because usually it's just as easy to produce your p/port.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Davidth88 wrote: »

Goodness me , ancient thread.

Actually arriving at DUB from the UK in theory all you need is your boarding pass. I have done it , but not for a while ( maybe 6 months ) because usually it's just as easy to produce your p/port.

The Garda have been pretty "thorough" I suppose you could say, in the last 6months to a year. Each time I've produced boarding pass and Garda ID I've been giving the full inquisition and told I need a passport or driver's licence.

It's a very grey area - you don't need a passport because of the common travel area but only Irish and British citizens are to avail of it and you have to prove you're one or the other and if you're Irish the only way to do that is Passport or driver's licence.

Our man in Havana

Even a driving licence is not enough to prove citizenship of the CTA according to one Garda I met at the airport one day. Only a passport will do or driving licence supported by other documents such as a birth cert.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Bond-007 wrote: »

Even a driving licence is not enough to prove citizenship of the CTA according to one Garda I met at the airport one day. Only a passport will do or driving licence supported by other documents such as a birth cert.

Really? Hmm.. I've seen many people use their Driver's licence. I think it is (or was) accepted because of Ireland's citizenship laws - you were born here ergo you were a citizen automatically - at least until McDowell's Citizenship Bill Act 2004 came into effect Jan 1st 2005.

Our man in Havana

I personally suspect that Garda was being awkward for the sake of being awkward.

Red Sleeping Beauty

More than likely. There's a few of them NIB Garda in Dublin Aiport that can get very cranky. Maybe it was an off-day.

robinph

A friend has proved his "citizenship" by the cop looking up his name in the local phone book on a flight into the UK before after the passport getting lost whilst away.

I've been tempted to mislay my passport between going past the Ryanair boarding and the Garda desk in Dublin before and was wondering if anyone had got in with their boarding card before. All you need to prove is that you came of a flight from the UK and that your not from some other foreign land, not quite true but anyway.

lynchie

robinph wrote: »

A friend has proved his "citizenship" by the cop looking up his name in the local phone book on a flight into the UK before after the passport getting lost whilst away.

I've been tempted to mislay my passport between going past the Ryanair boarding and the Garda desk in Dublin before and was wondering if anyone had got in with their boarding card before. All you need to prove is that you came of a flight from the UK and that your not from some other foreign land, not quite true but anyway.

I got in with a bus id before. Had my passport in my pocket but wasnt gonna show him it to see what he said. Asked for my passport, told him I was traveling from the UK and that I was an Irish citizen. He then said how do I know your an Irish citizen? Told him he could have my pps number if he wanted, then he just waved me on!

Red Sleeping Beauty

robinph wrote: »

A friend has proved his "citizenship" by the cop looking up his name in the local phone book on a flight into the UK before after the passport getting lost whilst away.

You can't be serious, that actually worked?
Them NIB Garda are weird. I used to always pass through with my Garda Age Card and the type of response I got would depend on the person. Some of them would look at it and ask a few questions and kinda shrug and say "go on" while others were a bit more authorative and demanding a passport. When that happened he asked did I have anything else so I produced my European Health Card, HSE medical card, library cards etc.

I've been tempted to mislay my passport between going past the Ryanair boarding and the Garda desk in Dublin before and was wondering if anyone had got in with their boarding card before. All you need to prove is that you came of a flight from the UK and that your not from some other foreign land, not quite true but anyway.

Well as I said, this common travel thing is supposed to only apply to Irish and British citizens... I think. It's bonkers though, entering the UK you're welcomed open arms, no checks and it's all grand. In contrast Dublin airport's a nightmare

Kotek Besar

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Well as I said, this common travel thing is supposed to only apply to Irish and British citizens... I think. It's bonkers though, entering the UK you're welcomed open arms, no checks and it's all grand. In contrast Dublin airport's a nightmare

Because the UKBA realise that Northern Ireland causes a massive immigration loophole for both Ireland and the UK, so checking passengers arriving in Britain from Ireland is absolutely pointless.

The GNIB haven't quite figured that out yet though.