[Merge]There has been talk before... Snowdome

Mitch Buchannon

€100m winter leisure park planned for north Dublin

DAVID LABANYIA building development company is planning to build an indoor ski resort and extreme sports centre in
Tyrellstown, north county Dublin, which it claims could lead to the creation of up to 700 jobs.
The project will feature two ski slopes; the longest running for 190 meters, a rock and ice climbing area and a high-level adventure playground.

The project is being run by Twinlite and is similar to recent winter sport developments in Manchester and Milton Keynes in the UK.

Rick Larkin, Twinlite director said barring any delays in the planning process he hoped the centre would open in the third quarter of 2010.

He said the company had already raised the estimated €100 million required for the development costs and said the worsening economic outlook for the country was not a significant concern.

“International experience is that in a recessionary environment leisure spend tends to be pretty resilient. People are drawn towards escapism and similar facilities in the UK have been performing well”.

In Manchester the fee for 90 minutes skiing including equipment hire is around £24 and Mr Larkin said he expects the pricing model for “Snowtopia” to be broadly similar.

The company expects up to 1.5 million visitors a year to a development that will include a paintball centre, digital theatres, a gym, restaurants and retail outlets.

Mr Larkin said the new jobs would be across the entire development and suggested that another “300 indirect” jobs could be created once the new centre is operational.

robinph

Sounds great if it happens, but still not sure that I actually belive them until I see it being built though.

paulharte

true, i think this one has a bit more potential tho, since it's been announced in the depths of a depression, rather than on the crest of a building boom. Its not just a scheme to sell apartments, hopefully...

paddyb

Sounds great, hopefully it goes ahead.

Hornswoggle

Would be amazing if this went ahead - but for now im going to take it with a little pinch of salt. Realistically, would there really be enough demand for this on an all-year round basis?

Mitch Buchannon

jaysus, Paddy.. we must be tooing and frowing between here and Irishsnowboarder:)

paulharte

I don't think its impossible, dublin is only a bit smaller than glasgow, and it has one, and it has to compete with real snow slopes. Lets all hope

Jonnykitedude

SWEET

I heard this was ment to happen down in KT a few years ago but nothing was ever heard again.
Lets hope it does go ahead!

RATM

But isn't Tyrellstown on the northside? ( D15 I think ) There may be demand for something like this but I reckon the majority of it is on the southside. If it ever does get built it could turn into a large white elephant because of its location imho

edmund_f

the fact that it is in Ireland at all - no competing 'real' snow outside of getting a boat - plane, yep doomed to failure DOOMED

I will be there opening day anyway!

Scootay

Tyrellstown......Rick Larkin, Twinlite director

You'd think the guy promoting the development in the town his company built most of would check that they had the spelling of Tyrrelstown correct.

Jonnykitedude

RATM wrote: »

But isn't Tyrellstown on the northside? ( D15 I think ) There may be demand for something like this but I reckon the majority of it is on the southside. If it ever does get built it could turn into a large white elephant because of its location imho

WTF ?!?!

What on earth makes you say that, the north side has a huge snowboard/ski community! Also its right off the M50!

paddyb

i think it will be irrelevant where it is because it will be the only one

Don1

Its just a guess but Northside land would be more abundant and cheaper non?

Also all year round would be great! Go a few times a year to keep the skills fresh until heading off for the winter?! Makes sense to me. Also as a lot of Irish do take winter holidays now this will be a much more realistic to KT for testing the water (albeit frozen) and training at a lower cost before deciding to head abroad.

Great idea and hope it goes ahead and succeeds.

olaola

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1219/1229523104845.html

Today's Irish Times...

Don1

olaola wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1219/1229523104845.html

Today's Irish Times...

Glad they said the image was computer gernerated. And there was me thinking all the had to do was patch the holes and roof it............ :rolleyes:

Cheers for el linko though!

prunudo

Jonnykitedude wrote: »

WTF ?!?!

What on earth makes you say that, the north side has a huge snowboard/ski community! Also its right off the M50!

Exactly. As long as it is situated within 5 mins of the m50 between n81 and n3 then its going to be centrally located and have the biggest catchment area.

Means also people from the likes of Atlone, Arklow or Dundalk could still be there within an hour or so.

Or are snow sports only for people from Dublin:rolleyes:

jimdev

I would nearly give a leg to get skiing on actual snow in Dublin. (I might want the leg for actually skiing with). This looks far far more likely to happen than the slope proposed in Newtownmountkennedy but it still seems that this sort of development is unlikely to work in Ireland in general due to the much lower population density than the UK.

The catchment area for a snowdome is about 50 miles (nobody will travel regularly much past that). I have heard off people in the Kilternan who looked into a snowdome just to see if it was possible. They said it seems most likely that around 10-15 million people are needed in your catchment area to support a decent snowdome. As Paul pointed out, Glasgow has one, which seems to defeat that argument. Kilternan looked into doing a snowdome and even with the possibility of government backing and national lotto money and the like, it still looked unfeasible.

Still though, I would really like to see this happen.

Don1

Doesn't really matter about the amount of people near it, more so the amount of interest in it, and then most importantly weather those interested can afford it.
Add to that the expense of flying anywhere now and in the next few years, coupled with the complete collapse of our economy and this becomes a lot more viable.

All IMO of course.

paulharte

Heres my two cents:

I think it can be financially sustainable, considering a few things, firstly the galsgow example which we've already talked about.

Remember, the glasgow example has to compete not only with "real" snow in scotland, but also with some really good quality artificial slopes, such as (beardsden, etc). there are two plastic slopes in glasgow and two just outside it.

In dublin we have a single dendex slope and thats it, AND nothing else in the whole republic of ireland.

I think there will definitely be enough business to sustain it, if its done properly.

I think the main reason for the newtownmountkennedy failure was that it was really a smokescreen to get pp for a load of apartments (I´m told the dome was in phase Z of the plans)

The only things I would be sceptical of are if it will get planning and who exactly is funding the whole thing, since bank loans for these kinds of projects are not exactly forthcoming. Apparently the planning is being submitted so we will find out about that one soon enough

Don1

Somebody phone Abu Dhabi or however its spelled. They'd pony up the dough no hassle!

Jonnykitedude

Was flicking the radio yesterday on my way to the beach and heard an interview on news talk.
The guy was one of the head guys on the project,sounds like its going to go ahead,they have the planning sent in and have giving land to dublin coco to build some link road between the n3 and n2, he said that the project would not go ahead until the road was finished.
But he said the road is due to be done soon and they hope that the project will start in may 2009 and be done for winter 2010.

So looks like the wheels are in motion.
He was also stating that there are centres like this in mainland europe approx 3 hours away from the alps and there doing great business, It will be jammers!!

Poster King

Two comments I have about this.
I alway thought that such a development would take place in an area that at least had a hill. Tyrresltown is flat as a pancake.
Also, the gradient of the slope seems very gentle. Now this may just be that the CGI is not accurate (I'm not referring to the CGI in the link above, I saw another one elsewhere), but all the other centres that I've seen images of have much steeper slopes. With a gentle gradient, and a relatively short piste, it will only appeal to beginners and maybe intermediates.
Am I wrong about this?

Don1

If they include some jibs on it it'd be grand. Some of the best craic I've ever had on snow was on flatter bits arseing around. Although zooming down steep hills is good too.

paddyb

ive been to some in the uk. they have lots of ramps and rails about. Plus they have freestyle night, where they have bands and dj's with really good park layouts

Mitch Buchannon

Poster King wrote: »

Two comments I have about this.
I alway thought that such a development would take place in an area that at least had a hill. Tyrresltown is flat as a pancake.
Also, the gradient of the slope seems very gentle. Now this may just be that the CGI is not accurate (I'm not referring to the CGI in the link above, I saw another one elsewhere), but all the other centres that I've seen images of have much steeper slopes. With a gentle gradient, and a relatively short piste, it will only appeal to beginners and maybe intermediates.
Am I wrong about this?

To be honest Ive been to the one in Glasgow and its in a flat land area too.
The one in Manchester is at the Trafford Centre and the one in the shopping centre in Dubai are also in areas of flat ground. I dont actually know if building on a hill would be a good or a bad thing.

robinph

Building it on flat land is probably easier. No hills to bother with transporting the refrigerations stuff up and down, more likely to have plenty of space around about for some huge parking areas, and then you can make use of the space under the slope for shops/ cinemas/ gym/ anything else that you can think of. Flat land is also more likely to be relatively close to your potential customers.

paddyb

you dont need to be at a hilly area, here is the one in manchester

prunudo

Yeah the manchester one is fairly flat all around it alright.

But they are building a new one in Hemel Hempstead (near London) on the hill of the old dry slope. The thinking is that by building on solid ground you can build bigger features without causing too much pressure and un-even weight disturbution on steel/concrete beams.Will look for some pictures on the net

Jonnykitedude

There building another one in Dubai thats 1km long:eek::eek::eek:

Mitch Buchannon

Hey Guys,

Just a bit of info for you. As you may be aware the IDA objected to this project going ahead. Well today (23rd Feb) Fingal Co Co refuseed planning permission for this Ski Centre. The planners report will be on their website tomorrow.

I think this is terrible news, what the hell is wrong with this country.

paulharte

feck, not happy with this one. How is this country ever to recover economically if people who want to create jobs are stopped from doing so?

davmol

Mitch Buchannon wrote: »

Hey Guys,

Just a bit of info for you. As you may be aware the IDA objected to this project going ahead. Well today (23rd Feb) Fingal Co Co refuseed planning permission for this Ski Centre. The planners report will be on their website tomorrow.

I think this is terrible news, what the hell is wrong with this country.

Complete fcukin morons!! why would anyone object to something that would create employment directly and indirectly,get a spark(although small)going in the consturction industry and create a bit of happiness and excitement in such miserable times for this country.
I swear they try to make this place as miserable as possible,why anyone would want to come over here is beyond me-earlier closing times for pubs and nightclubs,one of the most expensive places in europe to buy booze and complete lack of leisure activities!!

Id love to hear the reasoning behind the rejection

robinph

If it was that the developers had pulled out now then I could maybe understand it, although it would take a couple of years to complete probably and things would(?) have turned around again by then. Why it would get denied permission now though I don't get, surely they should be apporving anything that is going to generate jobs if there are people there willing to spend the money to create them?

davmol

Ive heard many excuses over here by residential groups representing tenants of areas and ive heard some of the worst,progress hampering excuses!
The development in Ballsbridge that was meant to go ahead which would have created hundreds/thousands of jobs and spin off jobs was blocked by residents of the area as the building would impede sunlight????
Please tell me the amout of sunlight we actually get here in dublin.

I think the project would be a resounding success,there are so many people 'who arent sure' whether they like a ski holiday and so arent willing to spend the cash,what better way to find out if youd like it than to have a go on teh indoor slope.
How many parents woulsd want their kids to learn at a young age and be proficient before going on holidays?
How many people would want to learn new tricks,how to go on rails ,boxes etc out there and keep your level at a certain standard,and considering most people go skiing once a year,this wouldnt be possible.
An awful shame if this project doenst go ahead and it just further emphasises our image as being backward.

kmick

Damn this would have been a great amenity.

Don1

The reason they were giving initially was incorrect zoning of the land. They were claiming this would take up too much retail or residential space. Can't recall which. Either ways, they are things the country doesn't need more of.

Typical lack of foresight. They say that the downturn would also result in less people using it. Eh, wtf??! Would it not be the exact opposite with more having to use it as they can't afford holidays?! Imbibes.

jimdev

Well if the land isn't zoned appropriately, they can apply to have it re-zoned (which usually doesn't succeed) or change the plans to fit in with the zoning and re-apply for planning permission. Hopefully, one of those goes ahead and works out. I wonder how it was out of zoning requirements / what was actually supposed to go there. The funny thing about those plans is that it isn't just one kind of thing (ie retail or entertainment) but an amalgamation of many different things.

The IDA (a government organisation tasked with seeking foreign investment to drive economic expansion and job creation) objecting to the creation of jobs through an expansionary investment... you couldn't make it up. They must have objected because they had hoped to use the same patch of land in the future for some as yet non-existing foreign investor creating white collar jobs as opposed to the lower wage jobs the snowdome complex would create.

am i bovvered

Hopefully the investors won't now pull out .... Ireland needs this..... and so do I !!

Diceicle

As someone hoping to take up snowboarding I would love to see something like this or the Newtownmountkennedy development go ahead.

Snowie

its dissapointing to read actuly its really crap...

but those ski centers are big and struturely ugly....

so infairness i can see the points how ever being as i love to plank its a bit dissapointing...

Mitch Buchannon

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

but those ski centers are big and struturely ugly..

To be honest snowmonkey it would be no more ugly than all those "fancy" shopping centres or industrial estates scattered all over Dublin.

Snowie

Mitch Buchannon wrote: »

To be honest snowmonkey it would be no more ugly than all those "fancy" shopping centres or industrial estates scattered all over Dublin.

true but to the people who dont ski or snowboard and in worse case BLADE.
why should they have something that will not help them in any way ?
I think your missing the bigg picture
a shoping center provides work etc
to work in a snow dome you need liftys snowboard instructer's, ski and board tec's etc thats spechilised work!

granted it would be great for all snowsports to have somethign like thta something for us to do where where no in our snowy place's ...
I would of thaught they would of put it in an industrial area as it would'nt look so out of place,....

Tails142

Listen lads things rarely get through planning first time, especially something as unusual as this. Almost all buildings go in for planning, get rejected, and then get resubmitted with a couple of floors taken off the top, entrances in different places, different arrangements etc. Some sites would have a history of over a dozen applications before building finally goes ahead.

The planners report will state clearly why it has been rejected and then the developer will be able to consult with him as to what way/changes are necessary for it to go forward.

If its a refusal that seems unjust the developer can also appeal to an bord planeala, although it can cost several thousand to do this so they will probably just alter the design and resubmit.

While nearby residents will almost always write in objections on the grounds of sunlight being blocked and how they dont like this that and the other the actual reasons buildings are rejected are generally decent enough and can be resolved.

Dont lose the faith!

CianRyan

As far as i know, there was going to be shops in the complex aswell. There will need to be places for the workers to get lunch ect... So cafés would have been built, people using the place would want to be able to have lunch, parents leaving their kids there might want a cup of caffee/tea and a cake or something, so i guess that gives even more reason to have a few cafés around.

This would generate a lot more job than those that more obviously spring to mind.
You really have to think deeper into it.


Hopefully on second aplication it will be accepted, i think it would be great.
People that did not even think about snowboarding/skiing before would concider it because the complex is there and so handy.

I for one know plenty of people who would probably use it regularly.
I'm not giving up faith.

paulharte

Is there really much chance of getting the planning through? The reason it was rejected was because of zoning, is there any way around this??

CianRyan

I was actually thinking of this the other day.

The zoning is for research as far as i know, so i was thinking, how about during closing time, they let some one use the ski feilds for some sort of research, anything to do with sub zero tempetures?
Maybe the army could even use it to test new camping equiptment?

There was loads running through my head but i can't for the life of me pull it up right now.

Alternitivly, they could just find a new spot.
The northside is so flat, they shouldn't have TO much trouble.

Landa2

Anyone else see this?

http://www.0-21.co.uk/index.php/200903033506/News/SCUK-News/Irish-Development-Agency-reject-indoor-slope-plan.html

CianRyan

There's fairly long thread about it floating about.

donnchadhc

Landa2 wrote: »

Anyone else see this?

http://www.0-21.co.uk/index.php/200903033506/News/SCUK-News/Irish-Development-Agency-reject-indoor-slope-plan.html

To be fair to the IDA, they have a point. There's no point in putting this thing in place unless there are good acces points that won't infringe on the local community. Plus I personally think it would ruin the experience if it took you an hour to get in and out of the place! Its great to see actual thought going into the Irish planning process Hope they find some compromise though, it'd be a great facility to have.

Snowie

found this on face book

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/snowtopia/index.html