so, who's going to be celebrating the birth of christ this year?

robindch

PDN wrote: »

And a cautionary tale about what happens if you tell the truth about Santa:

And here's what happens in the US if you even seem to tell the truth about christianity:

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/30/dole.ad/index.html#cnnSTCText

Didn't turn out all that bad though. Dole, the christian who tried to smear her opponent, Hagan, by pretending that the latter was was an atheist, lost.

Húrin

You should because it was originally pagan, then Christian, and now it has been appropriated by Capitalism.

SoulReaperDan1

I think its the pagans turn again....

Red Hand

pH wrote: »

Jeremiah 10:2 KJV Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3* For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4* They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

I must have been off my face on acid that day, I can tell you!

Yes, I will celebrate this Christmas...not in honour of anything but because it's there.

vibe666

Malari wrote: »

These type of atheists who don't go to mass all year and think just because they go on christmas day it's all ok! He probably doesn't even use contraceptives!

i always use contraception when I go to mass.

seriously, look what happened to yer one Mary after she got all up close and personal with that God fella. up the duff an all. you just can't be too careful.

pH

vibe666 wrote:

so, who's going to be celebrating the birth of christ this year?

Apparently not many British people:

BBC wrote:

Most 'do not believe in nativity'

In total, 30% of respondents believed the nativity story re-enacted in schools

The majority of Britons do not believe the Biblical story of the birth of Jesus, a survey has suggested.

Of 1,000 people questioned, 70% doubted the account, according to the British Market Research Bureau.

Almost a quarter of people who described themselves as Christians shared their scepticism.

More (BBC)

And here we see a common trend, turns out it's not about faith after all - but evidence!

Simon Gathercole, a new testament scholar at Cambridge University, said people were sceptical because they were not aware the origins of Christianity were anchored in real history.

"Jesus was born while Augustus was emperor of Rome just before Herod died... we're talking about events that are anchored in real history not in ancient Greek myths."

Which would be fine if we only read Matthew, Herod died in 4BCE or 5BCE, which means that Luke is wrong when he says he was born during the the Census of Quirinius in 6 CE, which means Luke is wrong on this important details, and given much of the "Nativity" story comes from Luke you've got to ask what else he got wrong, proving once again that faith is the way to go.

r3nu4l

I listened to Jarvis Cocker interview Richard Dawkins this morning on BBC Radio 4 (Today programme).

Dawkins said that he celebrates Christmas, wishes people a 'Happy Christmas' and also sings Christmas carols.

Now if the most senior clergyman in the church of atheism can do it (I'd say he chuckles at the irony of that) then why do some atheists seem to choke on the use of the word 'Good' because it comes from the word 'God'?

Fair play to Dawkins say I!
He also pointed out that in the USA, the main body of people trying to downgrade Christmas are not the atheists but rather other non-Christian religious groups.

pH

Priest 'ruins Christmas' for kids
A Catholic priest has been criticised by parents in a city in northern Italy for telling their children that Father Christmas does not really exist.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7798480.stm

Dades

pH wrote: »

Priest 'ruins Christmas' for kids
A Catholic priest has been criticised by parents in a city in northern Italy for telling their children that Father Christmas does not really exist.

I wonder if they'd be as upset if someone told them Jesus doesn't really exist? :pac:

vibe666

Dades wrote: »

I wonder if they'd be as upset if someone told them Jesus doesn't really exist? :pac:

to be fair, it's quite probable that he DID exist, given that jews and muslims also believe he was a real person. it's more his origin than his existence that is in question.

Dades

Hence my use of the term "doesn't".

pH

vibe666 wrote: »

to be fair, it's quite probable that he DID exist, given that jews and muslims also believe he was a real person. it's more his origin than his existence that is in question.

For someone to say that Jesus "did exist" surely that encompasses the whole package, life and works etc. To reduce it to the very technical "there was at least one person called Jesus living around 30AD in the middle east" seems pretty pointless.

Take Shakespeare, say we discovered that his works were not by him, but by another, would it still be sound to say that he existed? Take it a little further, say there actually was a person called Shakespeare, but he was an uninspired playwright and didn't pen any of the works attributed to him, is it still correct to say that "Shakespeare existed"?

A reasonable person would read into the phrase "Jesus existed", the meaning "Jesus as commonly understood and described in the bible existed"

Now I agree this is not black and white, say we found that one play currently attributed to the bard was not his, then it would still be correct to say "Shakespeare existed", the same with Jesus, if some of the minor details are wrong then the statement would still be fair.

But to try and reduce this argument to "technically, there may have been someone around at the time with that name about whom people made up stuff later therefore ... HE EXISTED", seems a waste of time to me, who knows there may well have been someone called Robin living in a wood in England once!

the_syco

Jesus SANTA's BIRTHDAY!!!!!!

The season of goodwill, gift giving, turkey eating.... f**k it, I may even go and laugh at the sheep in the local barn.

condra

I listened to Jarvis Cocker interview Richard Dawkins this morning on BBC Radio 4 (Today programme).

Dude thanks so much for this! I hadn't heard about it.

I'm a huge fan of Jarvis Cocker and to hear him interview Dawkins was a very special treat for me.

If anyone else is interested, it's here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7797000/7797077.stm