so, who's going to be celebrating the birth of christ this year?

vibe666

This is my first xmas as a proper Atheist (as opposed to a highly skeptical agnostic) and it has just occured to me that we shouldn't really be having any kind of crimbo celebrations if we're supposed to be atheists.

Jews don't celebrate Christmas since they don't believe Jebus was the son of their God, so should we have any celebrations considering we don't believe any of it?

OR we could take it like any other holiday such as Halloween and just have it as an excuse for a bit of a good ol' knees up and a good time to give people pressies for no apparent reason.

Seems like it might be a legitimate excuse considering Christians are supposed to have robbed it off the Pagans anyway.

so what's on the top of your christmas 'holiday' tree?

achtungbarry

vibe666 wrote: »

OR we could take it like any other holiday such as Halloween and just have it as an excuse for a bit of a good ol' knees up and a good time to give people pressies for no apparent reason.

That is as good a reason as any.

There is nothing wrong with having a bit of fun every now and then.


For me I celebrate the non christian bits of christmas ie

the tree and decorations
the nice meal
the obligatory family row
presents
listen to Slade and Wizard
Santa for the younger members of the family
etc etc

I take part in these things for one very simple reason.......

It's fun !

No other reason than that. It's a nice way to end the year with family and friends, show some appreciation, watch kids get excited about Santa etc.

Personally I don't care that many people see christmas as a purely christian festival. For me, most of the christian aspect has been lost anyway. People who celebrate the christian aspect are entitled to do just that in the same way I am entitled to take part in the non christian aspects.

Some people spend too much time worrying about what other people are doing or believing/not believing.

Chill, relax and as long as you're not harming anybody............ enjoy life !

It's the only one we have ( I believe anyway )



Get ready for some very over serious posts !

Dades

I shall be celebrating from the Winter Solstice* to the dawning of the New Year...

If Christmas happens to coincide with my ongoing celebrations, so be it.


* Being webcast live from the Heritage Ireland site here.

diverdriver

Like Dades I will be celebrating the Winter Solstice. The time of the year when the days begin to get longer again and Spring is on it's way. The 'true meaning of Christmas' before it was hijacked by those pesky Christians.

Ciaran500

Personally I celebrate any religious or national holiday that gives me an excuse to eat more, meet with friends, get free stuff or drink.

rockbeer

The midwinter festival predates christ by, oh, I don't know, several tens of millenia at least. Even the tree is a pagan symbol for the return of the light. I've no problem with celebrating that.

As others have said, those christians get their claws into everything. Almost everything about christmas has been stolen from an older tradition, recycled and repackaged.

pH

All the above plus:

Only Catholics should be "celebrating" Christ-mass - A Catholic mass is traditionally celebrated on the 25th December*, as an atheist you're expected not to attend such a service (Special dispensation to attend may be sought in advance by writing to Richard Dawkins if attendance is 100% necessary, though you'll be expected to keep your fingers crossed for the entire service).

Santa Claus is a pseudo deity with supernatural powers, and as such belief and worship should be avoided by strict atheists. Agnostics as usual are free to believe whatever the hell they want (just not that strongly).

Christians are explicitly forbidden from having decorated trees in their houses:

Jeremiah 10:2 KJV Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3* For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4* They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

Most Christians appreciate this being pointed out to them at this time of year, as a newly converted atheist you might want to tell some of your Christian friends and family.

If you're that worried about the theological implications of wearing a paper hat and eating turkey on the 25th of December, may I suggest you instead wrap yourself up warmly and wander the streets shouting at people. I believe the traditional phrase is "Bah Humbug".


* today a lot of Catholics find even this far too much bother.

Mr. Incognito

Christmas has nothing to do with religion anymore.

Its a commercial feast. Like Valentines, you never hear mention of St. valentines day any more it's "Happy Valentines Day".

Embrase X-Mas.

Malari

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Christmas has nothing to do with religion anymore.

Its a commercial feast. Like Valentines, you never hear mention of St. valentines day any more it's "Happy Valentines Day".

Embrase X-Mas.

Exactly, you never hear people complain about not celebrating the "true meaning" of Valentine's day or paddy's day or whatever. It's a public holiday, celebrate it whichever way you see fit...may I suggest liberal amounts of good food, fine drink and little flashy lights :pac:

rainbow kirby

Ciaran500 wrote: »

Personally I celebrate any religious or national holiday that gives me an excuse to eat more, meet with friends, get free stuff or drink.

+1

Ate a huge Thanksgiving dinner at an American friend's house last month

Quint

Yeah, it's just an excuse for a pissup even for most "catholics". The same "Catholics" that don't go to mass every week and use contraception!

Tim Robbins

vibe666 wrote: »

so what's on the top of your christmas 'holiday' tree?

I'll be celebrating. And I'll be offering my services to go to Mass with my Mum if she wants someone to go with her.

pH

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I'll be celebrating. And I'll be offering my services to go to Mass with my Mum if she wants someone to go with her.

Right that's it! Your name is going on the list of uncommitted, fair-weather atheists, we'll see what Richard Dawkins has to say about you.

rockbeer

vibe666 wrote: »

so what's on the top of your christmas 'holiday' tree?

I'm just off to sacrifice a goat

Rev Hellfire

I'll be doing the whole hog, bar the mass/service.

There's lots of things I do which I don't believe in but the nippers get a kick out of ie. tooth fairy, santa etc.

Don't see any reason why this should be any different.

Malari

Quint wrote: »

Yeah, it's just an excuse for a pissup even for most "catholics". The same "Catholics" that don't go to mass every week and use contraception!

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I'll be celebrating. And I'll be offering my services to go to Mass with my Mum if she wants someone to go with her.

These type of athiests who don't go to mass all year and think just because they go on christmas day it's all ok! He probably doesn't even use contraceptives!

Zamboni

The usual.
Drink, eat and be merry.
Compain that I can't go to the pub on the 25th because of a bunch of idiots.
Get bored between the 27th and New Years Eve.
Drink, eat and be merry.
Go back to work a stone heavier

Tim Robbins

pH wrote: »

Right that's it! Your name is going on the list of uncommitted, fair-weather atheists, we'll see what Richard Dawkins has to say about you.

I'm sure he wishes he was going. He only goes on about it so much because he misses it so much.

Handsome Bob

Ciaran500 wrote: »

Personally I celebrate any religious or national holiday that gives me an excuse to eat more, meet with friends, get free stuff or drink.

Straight to the point, I commend your for that sir. No procrastinating or "christians stole if off pagans" or any other way to "reason" your celebration of a religious holiday. It's the same reason why I'll be celebrating (at the same time respecting my mothers beliefs0.:)

PDN

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I'm sure he wishes he was going. He only goes on about it so much because he misses it so much.

If they're singing any carols then you might see him there! Last year Dawkins did an interview with the BBC in which he said he likes to sing Christmas carols.

This was also the interview in which he described himself as "a cultural Christian".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7136682.stm

--amadeus--

I have a load of xmas carols on my iPod. Sad and tragic but I love all that "Silent Night" stuff

gramlab

Will be "getting dinner ready" while the rest attend mass. I will take part in everything else though.

What I wouldn't give to be 7 yrs old again at this time of year:)

Zamboni

PDN wrote: »

If they're singing any carols then you might see him there! Last year Dawkins did an interview with the BBC in which he said he likes to sing Christmas carols.

This was also the interview in which he described himself as "a cultural Christian".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7136682.stm

Fup.
It's only xmas to me when I hear The First Noel.
Awesome choon despite the content.
Nout wrong with atheists enjoying art that was inspired by religion.

robindch

PDN wrote: »

Last year Dawkins did an interview with the BBC in which he said he likes to sing Christmas carols.

Nothing wrong with that. Wasn't it Luther who said that the Devil has all the best tunes? Shoe's on the other foot now, of course.

Galvasean

robindch wrote: »

Nothing wrong with that. Wasn't it Luther who said that the Devil has all the best tunes? Shoe's on the other foot now, of course.

"Kindly deeds,
done for free.."

20goto10

Yule-tide came first.

ChocolateSauce

If I were wealthy enough to actually buy anything, I might be celebrating the greatest event of the capitalist calender, but I'm not, so I can sum up Christmas with "meh" and with, "whoo hoo! No more exams!"

seanybiker

Ciaran500 wrote: »

Personally I celebrate any religious or national holiday that gives me an excuse to eat more, meet with friends, get free stuff or drink.

oh good thinking. Im doing that aswell. :cool:

pH

A cautionary tale (for Christians) on the obvious perils of lying to your children about Santa Claus.



Read the comic

PDN

And a cautionary tale about what happpens if you tell the truth about Santa:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/article5326005.ece

A supply teacher has been told not to return to one primary school after she told a class of seven-year-olds that Santa Claus did not exist.

Children at Blackshaw Lane Primary School in Oldham were talking about Christmas when the teacher came out with the news.

Father Christmas was not responsible for delivering their presents on Christmas Eve, the pupils were taught. The teacher, who had been drafted in for just the day, has now been told not to come back.

Parents complained to the school after their children returned home to recount what they had learnt in lessons that day.

Amanda Robertson, a parent of one pupil, said that her daughter had been very upset. “The whole family were outraged that a teacher took it upon herself to say this,” she wrote on an internet forum. But she added: “One of the permanent teachers did a very good job of telling the children that this was a mistake and ‘of course’ Santa is real.”

One father said that his daughter was confused by what the teacher had said and that she couldn’t stop thinking about it. “It should be down to parents, not teachers, to deal with this sort of thing. And 7 or 8 is no age to be told that,” he said.

Mrs Roberston wrote that what the teacher had done “would be like telling someone religious that God doesn’t exist”.

Angela McCormick, the head teacher, contacted the supply agency — which still employs the teacher — to tell them not to send her again.

In a letter to parents, Mrs McCormick offered her “profuse apologies” and said that the children had continued to learn about Christmas and had written letters to Santa since the incident last week. “The children are unscathed and are back on track thanks to the ‘magic’ of our resident staff and the lovely snow we have all appreciated this week,” she wrote.

Another parent said, however, that he had had to spend hours convincing his daughter that the teacher was wrong. He said: “I’ve told her she must have been confused. All kids at that age are excited at this time of year, so for someone to say something like that puts a dampener on it all.”

Galvasean

PDN wrote: »

And a cautionary tale about what happpens if you tell the truth about Santa:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/article5326005.ece

:eek: Harsh.

robindch

PDN wrote: »

And a cautionary tale about what happens if you tell the truth about Santa:

And here's what happens in the US if you even seem to tell the truth about christianity:

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/30/dole.ad/index.html#cnnSTCText

Didn't turn out all that bad though. Dole, the christian who tried to smear her opponent, Hagan, by pretending that the latter was was an atheist, lost.

Húrin

You should because it was originally pagan, then Christian, and now it has been appropriated by Capitalism.

SoulReaperDan1

I think its the pagans turn again....

Red Hand

pH wrote: »

Jeremiah 10:2 KJV Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3* For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4* They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

I must have been off my face on acid that day, I can tell you!

Yes, I will celebrate this Christmas...not in honour of anything but because it's there.

vibe666

Malari wrote: »

These type of atheists who don't go to mass all year and think just because they go on christmas day it's all ok! He probably doesn't even use contraceptives!

i always use contraception when I go to mass.

seriously, look what happened to yer one Mary after she got all up close and personal with that God fella. up the duff an all. you just can't be too careful.

pH

vibe666 wrote:

so, who's going to be celebrating the birth of christ this year?

Apparently not many British people:

BBC wrote:

Most 'do not believe in nativity'

In total, 30% of respondents believed the nativity story re-enacted in schools

The majority of Britons do not believe the Biblical story of the birth of Jesus, a survey has suggested.

Of 1,000 people questioned, 70% doubted the account, according to the British Market Research Bureau.

Almost a quarter of people who described themselves as Christians shared their scepticism.

More (BBC)

And here we see a common trend, turns out it's not about faith after all - but evidence!

Simon Gathercole, a new testament scholar at Cambridge University, said people were sceptical because they were not aware the origins of Christianity were anchored in real history.

"Jesus was born while Augustus was emperor of Rome just before Herod died... we're talking about events that are anchored in real history not in ancient Greek myths."

Which would be fine if we only read Matthew, Herod died in 4BCE or 5BCE, which means that Luke is wrong when he says he was born during the the Census of Quirinius in 6 CE, which means Luke is wrong on this important details, and given much of the "Nativity" story comes from Luke you've got to ask what else he got wrong, proving once again that faith is the way to go.

r3nu4l

I listened to Jarvis Cocker interview Richard Dawkins this morning on BBC Radio 4 (Today programme).

Dawkins said that he celebrates Christmas, wishes people a 'Happy Christmas' and also sings Christmas carols.

Now if the most senior clergyman in the church of atheism can do it (I'd say he chuckles at the irony of that) then why do some atheists seem to choke on the use of the word 'Good' because it comes from the word 'God'?

Fair play to Dawkins say I!
He also pointed out that in the USA, the main body of people trying to downgrade Christmas are not the atheists but rather other non-Christian religious groups.

pH

Priest 'ruins Christmas' for kids
A Catholic priest has been criticised by parents in a city in northern Italy for telling their children that Father Christmas does not really exist.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7798480.stm

Dades

pH wrote: »

Priest 'ruins Christmas' for kids
A Catholic priest has been criticised by parents in a city in northern Italy for telling their children that Father Christmas does not really exist.

I wonder if they'd be as upset if someone told them Jesus doesn't really exist? :pac:

vibe666

Dades wrote: »

I wonder if they'd be as upset if someone told them Jesus doesn't really exist? :pac:

to be fair, it's quite probable that he DID exist, given that jews and muslims also believe he was a real person. it's more his origin than his existence that is in question.

Dades

Hence my use of the term "doesn't".

pH

vibe666 wrote: »

to be fair, it's quite probable that he DID exist, given that jews and muslims also believe he was a real person. it's more his origin than his existence that is in question.

For someone to say that Jesus "did exist" surely that encompasses the whole package, life and works etc. To reduce it to the very technical "there was at least one person called Jesus living around 30AD in the middle east" seems pretty pointless.

Take Shakespeare, say we discovered that his works were not by him, but by another, would it still be sound to say that he existed? Take it a little further, say there actually was a person called Shakespeare, but he was an uninspired playwright and didn't pen any of the works attributed to him, is it still correct to say that "Shakespeare existed"?

A reasonable person would read into the phrase "Jesus existed", the meaning "Jesus as commonly understood and described in the bible existed"

Now I agree this is not black and white, say we found that one play currently attributed to the bard was not his, then it would still be correct to say "Shakespeare existed", the same with Jesus, if some of the minor details are wrong then the statement would still be fair.

But to try and reduce this argument to "technically, there may have been someone around at the time with that name about whom people made up stuff later therefore ... HE EXISTED", seems a waste of time to me, who knows there may well have been someone called Robin living in a wood in England once!

the_syco

Jesus SANTA's BIRTHDAY!!!!!!

The season of goodwill, gift giving, turkey eating.... f**k it, I may even go and laugh at the sheep in the local barn.

condra

I listened to Jarvis Cocker interview Richard Dawkins this morning on BBC Radio 4 (Today programme).

Dude thanks so much for this! I hadn't heard about it.

I'm a huge fan of Jarvis Cocker and to hear him interview Dawkins was a very special treat for me.

If anyone else is interested, it's here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7797000/7797077.stm