The reason apple need to go off and DIE!!

Patricide

First of all let me start by saying that i cant stand itunes, the whole not having free controll of my music is a feature that annoyed me to the point where i use anapod explorer as an alternitive. Anyway onwards to the story.

I connected my Ipod up to my computer today(totally forgetting i had installed itunes to restore the girlfreinds ipod earlier) and it automaticly(without so much as a bit of notice) synched up with my own ipod. Now i have an almost full 80 gb ipod with a good 60% of the tracks mislabled(4 different names for albums, different spellings, loss of track sequences all that kinda deal).

Worse still i found that random songs have been deleted off my ipod, for instance my alice in chains unplugged only has tracks 1 3 and 5, the rest of the album is missing and it doesnt appear to be labled under anything else either.

THIS IS ****ING RETARDED APPLE!!! I dunno if you can tell but im thoughrally pissed off to say the very least. I have the majority of this music backed up but as far as i know a lot of my backup is mistagged aswell so its gonna be a MAJOR pain in the ass and its gonna take AGES to sort out.

Ok rant over. On another note, does anyone know if theres a way to restore an ipod to earlier on this evening, if such a programme exists id even be willing to pay for the thing. I just dont want to have to go through my entire ipod with a fine tooth comb to get it sorted again. EDIT, And i dont think this sort of thing should happen in the FUC....no im gonna calm down. First place.

joenailface

This might seem like a wildly left field idea but how about you buy another mp3 player oooooooor stop whining about something that was clearly your own fault.

seanybiker

get a creative zen. Proper stuff. Isod is a load of dicky

Kid Nothing

Don't wanna sound like a dick, but i fail to see how it's Apple's fault that the majority of your music isn't tagged properly.

laoisfan

google MediaMonkey...fairly good for tagging music....i use it a lot...no issues so far....


p.s. bought myself a 16Gb Apple iPod Touch for christmas.... lol

merry christmas!!

Patricide

My music on my ipod WAS tagged properly, the music on my harddrive backup wasnt.

True that it is partially my own fault but i didnt synch my player myself. It automaticly did this without even asking my permission, and why did it go about deleteing random tracks, and mislabling tracks. Itunes is such an idiotic backwards system.

And believe me i would use another media player its just that apple pretty much have a monopoly going on, besides that i cant exactly afford to splash out on a new mp3 player when one thing pisses me off about one.

nice1franko

I agree with the OP. It's absolute bollox. I can't understand how anyone uses it. I've messed up my ipod by accident with it syncing on the sly as well. Off with iTunes, on with MediaMonkey - haven't looked back.

Patricide

Trying media monkey out now, can you freely transfer your music on and off your ipod without having to have it saved onto your computer.

I dunno how you itunes people do it. If i put all 80 gigs of music on my laptops hard drive id have only 40 gigs left. Kinda totally dimishes the point of of an mp3 player imo.

ntlbell

Patricide wrote: »

Trying media monkey out now, can you freely transfer your music on and off your ipod without having to have it saved onto your computer.

I dunno how you itunes people do it. If i put all 80 gigs of music on my laptops hard drive id have only 40 gigs left. Kinda totally dimishes the point of of an mp3 player imo.

You seem a little confused?

The job of an MP3 player is to play mp3's

the Ipod and any other mp3 player doesn't give a f*ck what you do after that...

Patricide

No offence but your putting that a bit oversimplified. Those mp3's need a way to get onto the player and apple or any other company for that matter should have ergonomicly designed software which allows you 100% controll over your music.

If ive spent my hard earned cash on music then i shouldnt have to worry if its still on my computer if i want it to stay on my ipod. The whole idea is idiotic yet everyone puts up with it because the ipod is the "number 1" mp3 player on the market, I dont get why.

I know for a fact im not the only one who is agrivated to the point of insanity by itunes, it seems to just be fanboys and people who dont know any better who seem to like itunes.

ntlbell

Patricide wrote: »

No offence but your putting that a bit oversimplified. Those mp3's need a way to get onto the player and apple or any other company for that matter should have ergonomicly designed software which allows you 100% controll over your music.

If ive spent my hard earned cash on music then i shouldnt have to worry if its still on my computer if i want it to stay on my ipod. The whole idea is idiotic yet everyone puts up with it because the ipod is the "number 1" mp3 player on the market, I dont get why.

I know for a fact im not the only one who is agrivated to the point of insanity by itunes, it seems to just be fanboys and people who dont know any better who seem to like itunes.

again, you still seem very confused.

.

I have complete control over all my music.

I have a zen and an Ipod.

I don't understand what you're talking about why does your ipod care where your music is after you place the mp3 on the ipod? mine doesn't.

I don't put up with it, I've never had that problem.

I don't particularly like Itunes but for many different reasons, but you're free to choose plenty of other software if you're not happy with Itunes.

Maybe if you figured out how to setup Itunes properly in the first place?

art

Patricide wrote: »

My music on my ipod WAS tagged properly, the music on my harddrive backup wasnt.

True that it is partially my own fault but i didnt synch my player myself. It automaticly did this without even asking my permission, and why did it go about deleteing random tracks, and mislabling tracks. Itunes is such an idiotic backwards system.

And believe me i would use another media player its just that apple pretty much have a monopoly going on, besides that i cant exactly afford to splash out on a new mp3 player when one thing pisses me off about one.

iTunes doesn't sync automatically unless you have set it up to sync automatically. And then, that is only with a known device. When you connect a new iPod product, it does not go and sync automatically but will ask you what you want to do and does warn that the act of sync-ing will delete tracks. I've no idea what you did though I expect your tale is a fairly creative juggling of events - either you never had iTunes on the PC and it did not sync immediately at all or you did not just install it today as claimed but have sync-ed at some stage before and now you are mainly angry with yourself for forgetting that fact...?

Goodshape

art wrote: »

iTunes doesn't sync automatically unless you have set it up to sync automatically.

In my experience iTunes syncs automatically unless you tell it not to do so.

Although not, afair, when plugging in a "new" device.

I agree with the OP though -- the way iTunes and iPods handles music is horribly restrictive. If you transfer music to your iPod then remove it from your computer, you can't ever sync the iPod again without loosing those songs completely. Correct me if I'm wrong -- seriously! I'd love to know the way around this!

Also, songs I put on my iPod are locked on that iPod... either I have a "backup" somewhere or that's it. Can't get them off.

I have an iPhone but I'll be damned if I'm going to let it take control of my music. ****e music player anyway... I stick to my iRiver iHP140 -- best mp3 player I've ever come across, and it lets me do what I want with the media I own, when I want. Drag+drop on, drag+drop off. No software, no nonsense.

ntlbell

Goodshape wrote: »

In my experience iTunes syncs automatically unless you tell it not to do so.

Although not, afair, when plugging in a "new" device.

I agree with the OP though -- the way iTunes and iPods handles music is horribly restrictive. If you transfer music to your iPod then remove it from your computer, you can't ever sync the iPod again without loosing those songs completely. Correct me if I'm wrong -- seriously! I'd love to know the way around this!

Also, songs I put on my iPod are locked on that iPod... either I have a "backup" somewhere or that's it. Can't get them off.

I have an iPhone but I'll be damned if I'm going to let it take control of my music. ****e music player anyway... I stick to my iRiver iHP140 -- best mp3 player I've ever come across, and it lets me do what I want with the media I own, when I want. Drag+drop on, drag+drop off. No software, no nonsense.

When I used to use Itunes it asked did I want to synch....

The majority of my Ipod's music is not physically on the computer and never had a problem syncing after removing the music physically from the pc...I don't recall ever doing anything special for this to work like that...

not sure what you mean by locked, I put my music on any device be it an ipod or any other mp3 player without issue..

not sure what your all up to

art

Goodshape wrote: »

In my experience iTunes syncs automatically unless you tell it not to do so.

Although not, afair, when plugging in a "new" device.

I agree with the OP though -- the way iTunes and iPods handles music is horribly restrictive. If you transfer music to your iPod then remove it from your computer, you can't ever sync the iPod again without loosing those songs completely. Correct me if I'm wrong -- seriously! I'd love to know the way around this!

Also, songs I put on my iPod are locked on that iPod... either I have a "backup" somewhere or that's it. Can't get them off.

I have an iPhone but I'll be damned if I'm going to let it take control of my music. ****e music player anyway... I stick to my iRiver iHP140 -- best mp3 player I've ever come across, and it lets me do what I want with the media I own, when I want. Drag+drop on, drag+drop off. No software, no nonsense.

I'm always utterly amazed that people think drag and drop is so majorly worthwhile or that clicking on "My Documents"... " My Music"... "Abba" ... "Abba's Greatest Hits", clicking on a song and diligently dragging it across to ... Oh, hang on, I forgot to open My Computer and open the ... etc is so much better than plugging in the iPod, waiting a few seconds, then unplugging it. And I'd love to hear how exactly you copy all your tracks from 2008 in one click using Drag and Drop, or all those tracks you've rated five or four stars etc?

Anyhow the first time you plug in a particular iPod it asks you about syncing. Of course it does not ask you again after that, I'm pretty sure there would be howls of complaints if it did always ask. You have to go untick the box after that. It's hardly the most dastardly thing having to go tell the device that you've changed your mind now is it?

Goodshape

ntlbell wrote: »

When I used to use Itunes it asked did I want to synch....

The majority of my Ipod's music is not physically on the computer and never had a problem syncing after removing the music physically from the pc...I don't recall ever doing anything special for this to work like that...

not sure what you mean by locked, I put my music on any device be it an ipod or any other mp3 player without issue..

not sure what your all up to

Honestly, that's not been my experience or the experience of other people I know.

Not that I have extensive experience with the software... got burnt once and didn't go back. Like I said, I don't like the iPhone as an MP3 player anyway. Too much flash, too little substance.

Maybe there's a "don't be an asshole" button in iTunes that I forgot to press.

ntlbell

Goodshape wrote: »

Honestly, that's not been my experience or the experience of other people I know.

Not that I have extensive experience with the software... got burnt once and didn't go back. Like I said, I don't like the iPhone as an MP3 player anyway. Too much flash, too little substance.

Maybe there's a "don't be an asshole" button in iTunes that I forgot to press.

This is the only thing i ever changed

Configure iPod or iPhone for manual management
If you have iTunes 7* or later follow these instructions.

1. Connect iPod or iPhone to your computer.
2. Open iTunes.
3. Select iPod or iPhone in the Devices list.
4. Click the Summary tab and select "Manually manage music and videos."
5. Click Apply.
6. When manual management is enabled, you can still sync some content automatically. Select any content tab such as Video to enable automatic syncing for that type of content.

Goodshape

art wrote: »

I'm always utterly amazed that people think drag and drop is so majorly worthwhile or that clicking on "My Documents"... " My Music"... "Abba" ... "Abba's Greatest Hits", clicking on a song and diligently dragging it across to ... Oh, hang on, I forgot to open My Computer and open the ... etc is so much better than plugging in the iPod, waiting a few seconds, then unplugging it. And I'd love to hear how exactly you copy all your tracks from 2008 in one click using Drag and Drop, or all those tracks you've rated five or four stars etc?

Horses for courses. I've never felt the need to "star" rate my music... I already know what I like. I also use multiple computers, operating systems (windows/os-x/linux) and thus audio software on a near enough daily basis.

I'm always utterly amazed at how people can goto the trouble of tagging, categorizing and rating all their music in one single piece of software and then what? do it all again for the next piece of software you decide to use?

A good directory file structure and id3 tagging FTW.

Goodshape

ntlbell wrote: »

This is the only thing i ever changed

Nice one

I'll be sure to mention that to my friends who are still stuck using iTunes

ntlbell

[quote=Goodshape;58292980
I'm always utterly amazed at how people can goto the trouble of tagging, categorizing and rating all their music[/quote]

I'm utterly amazed he used "ABBA" as his example....:D

Keith186

Patricide wrote: »

The whole idea is idiotic yet everyone puts up with it because the ipod is the "number 1" mp3 player on the market, I dont get why.
.

Marketing, my friend.

I tried itunes out before I had the chance to buy an ipod and it just put me off it altogether. I think itunes is a shambles and totally awkward.
Feck getting used to it, just make it right in the first place.

I use WMP 11 for tunes and MP classic, by no means perfect but I just don't hate them as much (yet).

No.1 reason I wouldn't get an ipod is bacause of itunes.

No.2 reason is because tonnes of my stuff is in wmp, if itunes wasn't so poxy it wouldn't bother me to convert it though.

art

Goodshape wrote: »

Horses for courses. I've never felt the need to "star" rate my music... I already know what I like. I also use multiple computers, operating systems (windows/os-x/linux) and thus audio software on a near enough daily basis.

I'm always utterly amazed at how people can goto the trouble of tagging, categorizing and rating all their music in one single piece of software and then what? do it all again for the next piece of software you decide to use?

A good directory file structure and id3 tagging FTW.

iTunes will automatically create a good directory structure for you. If you wish. Or it won't, if you don't. Plus I was earlier referring to ID tags essentially, iTunes (as does other software of course) makes it easy to transfer music based on tagging - and the tagging done in iTunes isn't limited to the one PC, not sure where you get that idea? So, going back to simple drag and drop, how do you drag and drop all those songs in your collection that have an ID tag that says they were published in 2008?

The thing is you get options with iTunes - you can manually manage music or automatically manage it, do clever things with tags or don't, manage playlists or don't.. and so on. Options, for me, are healthy things to have. Ultimately, the idea that iTunes is restrictive is in fact, in itself, a very limited an idea.

Goodshape

art wrote: »

So, going back to simple drag and drop, how do you drag and drop all those songs in your collection that have an ID tag that says they were published in 2008?

In Linux I use Amarok which is an awesome piece of software and will do this for me -- and it's compatible with pretty much every MP3 player except newer iPods/iPhones... because Apple says no.

Not that I've ever wanted to do that


Anyways, horses for courses, like I said. It seems from comments here that iTunes can be configured in such a way asto be reasonable with your files and media. Most people I know with iPods obviously aren't tech savvy enough to figure this out... that's why they bought iPods . Me? I'll stick with software and tools that respect the media I own "out of the box", rather than trying to sell me more restrictive media at every turn.


(and maybe buying music in your media player is handy for you? Yeah, Amarok does that too... with a choice of around 5 different stores - just not iTunes store... because Apple, of course, says no.)

mayordenis

what I did to avoid this exact problem was I didn't buy an Ipod I bought an mp3 player that I wanted to own, not something I hate.
I recommend you do likewise

pleasant Co.

art wrote: »

So, going back to simple drag and drop, how do you drag and drop all those songs in your collection that have an ID tag that says they were published in 2008?

The thing is you get options with iTunes - you can manually manage music or automatically manage it, do clever things with tags or don't, manage playlists or don't.. and so on. Options, for me, are healthy things to have. Ultimately, the idea that iTunes is restrictive is in fact, in itself, a very limited an idea.

This is what I love about MSC - DAP's, I can use them with just about anything, I do not have to use itunes if I do not want to. I love drag and drop, it's dead handy...BUT with that I also have the OPTION (something i'd like to highlight here) to use software if I need to but I am not forced to use that software if I do not need to, this is something you seem to be missing art (based on your question, in italics above), just because a DAP doesn't need software doesn't mean it can't be used with software....so if I needed to put all tracks from 08 onto my DAP I could do so easily...of course I would never have a reason to do something as ridiculous as that

art

Goodshape wrote: »

In Linux I use Amarok which is an awesome piece of software and will do this for me ... Me? I'll stick with software and tools that respect the media I own "out of the box", rather than trying to sell me more restrictive media at every turn.

That was my whole point in a nutshell, you started off saying

...Drag+drop on, drag+drop off. No software, no nonsense.

but now you admit you actually do not use "drag and drop" after all, you use software to handle transfers.

I've no idea why you think iTunes does not respect media, I have lots of Mp3s on my PC which I still use iTunes to organise, even though I've actually a Sony player now (in addition to an iPod). iTunes doesn't change my files or do anything with them - in what way is it not respecting my media??? I buy music wherever I want, nothing forces me to do anything here. Lost as to where you are coming from with this conspiracy theory stuff.

art

Mactard wrote: »

...of course I would never have a reason to do something as ridiculous as that

I literally just did that the other week when trying to write up a brief article on albums of 2008 and needing to remember what music was relevant, so you never know...

On the other thing, I just think that beating things over the head over "drag and drop" functions is a bit nerdy really - it's a clumsy, time laborious way of organising music with the only benefit I can see being avoiding a software install. But given just about everyone has Media Player or iTunes automatically installed on their respective PCs, that too is hardly viable. It reminds me very much of the old arguments about using DOS instead of Windows in order to "stay in control". "Drag and Drop" is more trouble than it is worth.

pleasant Co.

Well...my point is that with MSC style DAP's you have plenty of choice, you can drag and drop your music/files regardless of the system you use and as you also most likely have all your music databased in some sort of a media player the chances are that you will be able to sync with a MSC DAP, if you need to...that was really my only point.

As for that "Drag and Drop is more trouble than it is worth comment", well, that's your opinion but that doesn't make you correct I think that being limitted to software transfer only is more trouble than it is worth, as I like choice and I like a bit more freedom with how I use my DAP.

As a media player, I do not like itunes to be honest, it simply does not fit my needs, but being a mac user my choice is limited. If I could use mediamonkey on OSX I certainly would, but for now I am using songbird to play my collection (in a non-ipod/itunes supported codec) and because I have to use itunes to transfer my ipod music it still gets used, but only to add a couple of albums every now and again.

Dodge

I currently have a creatize zen and usually use mediamonkey for all my organising needs.

I think someone is getting me an ipod touch for xmas.

Just to confirm, media monkey can be used to transfer music to an ipod? Are other software used for bringing videos/pictures onto it?

Apologies for the innocence of the question

art

Mactard wrote: »

As for that "Drag and Drop is more trouble than it is worth comment", well, that's your opinion but that doesn't make you correct I think that being limitted to software transfer only is more trouble than it is worth, as I like choice and I like a bit more freedom with how I use my DAP.

Ah, of course, I agree, it is only my opinion but I just cannot conceive of any argument in support of "drag and drop" over a software interface: What freedom do you get from doing everything at the OS level that you fail to get when using an application (any such application) specifically designed to assist in music management?

art

Dodge wrote: »

Just to confirm, media monkey can be used to transfer music to an ipod?

Yes

Dodge wrote: »

Are other software used for bringing videos/pictures onto it?

Well iTunes will do that for a start, not sure if MediaMonkey handles videos

Goodshape

art wrote: »

That was my whole point in a nutshell, you started off saying

but now you admit you actually do not use "drag and drop" after all, you use software to handle transfers.

I do use drag and drop, as is my preference.

In Linux I use Amarok to listen to my music (the latest version is actually available for Windows and Mac now too... not tried the newer one yet though) and if I ever actually wanted to do something like "copy all songs from 2008", Amarok makes that sort of thing very easy. But I've never wanted to that.

Lost as to where you are coming from with this conspiracy theory stuff.

I'll admit I may be over critical of the software but my (brief) experiences with it, and what I've gathered from other peoples experience, hasn't been good. And I think you're being overly defensive, btw :P

I know people who've lost their entire music collection because their tunes weren't "backed up" on the computer they synced with. Advanced options be damned, that shouldn't happen. The lowest common denominator buy iPods... these people don't know squat about advanced options.

And the new 'Genius' option.. you need your credit card for that? wa da feck? Amarok (and others) does essentially the same thing by connecting to Last.fm ....you don't even need a last.fm account, never mind CC details.

It baffles me slightly why anyone would choose to use it, and annoys me that people have to use it for their iPods. Very large part of the reason why I don't use the damn things.

fwiw, I tried the Sony software once. Even worse! ....and don't get me started on the old Creative software! These systems are restrictive because they don't let you choose.

Goodshape

art wrote: »

What freedom do you get from doing everything at the OS level that you fail to get when using an application

I get the freedom to use it on any machine I plug into, regardless of what software is installed.

And if software is installed then grand -- I can take that option if I want.

Freedom.

art

Goodshape wrote: »

I'll admit I may be over critical of the software but my (brief) experiences with it, and what I've gathered from other peoples experience, hasn't been good. And I think you're being overly defensive, btw :P

Just trying to bring a bit of balance here and put some facts into play. A lot of what you are saying is wrong, including the above statement that you need a credit card to use Genius - you need an iTunes store account. Given that the function is based on other people's accounts, that makes it perfectly logical. And to oppose this kind of "my mate's mate once had all his stuff deleted". You cannot delete all your stuff unless you click the option which clearly says "this will delete all my stuff". That's not "advanced" at all, it is a prompt that shows up on screen when you plug in a new device.

Goodshape

art wrote: »

Just trying to bring a bit of balance here and put some facts into play. A lot of what you are saying is wrong, including the above statement that you need a credit card to use Genius - you need an iTunes store account. Given that the function is based on other people's accounts, that makes it perfectly logical. And to oppose this kind of "my mate's mate once had all his stuff deleted". You cannot delete all your stuff unless you click the option which clearly says "this will delete all my stuff". That's not "advanced" at all, it is a prompt that shows up on screen when you plug in a new device.

Sigh. You need a credit card to open an iTunes account. Or a gift card, I guess. So either give them money straight away, or give them your credit card details. Either way -- that sucks. Why not just use Last.fm? oh right, yeah... because Apple likes to restrict you to Apple.

And it wasn't exactly a "mate's mate"... most recent example was my boyfriend, about two weeks ago. Maybe there was a warning beforehand but regardless, he couldn't (obviously at least) use his iPod with his new laptop without wiping the thing clean. The OP and others (yup, mates and mates of mates) would seem to suggest it's not an isolated incident.


An now I've got an iPhone beside me (LOVE the iPhone btw... just not for music) which I couldn't put any tunes on even if I wanted to, because I choose to use Linux. That sucks.

art

Goodshape wrote: »

Sigh. You need a credit card to open an iTunes account. Or a gift card, I guess. So either give them money straight away, or give them your credit card details. Either way -- that sucks. Why not just use Last.fm? oh right, yeah... because Apple likes to restrict you to Apple.

Think you haven't really accepted the real world here - why on earth would Last.fm allow Apple use its service like that? An Apple software function restricting you to an Apple service makes perfect sense here when the issue involves sharing accounts - I for one would not want anyone free access to my account, I do want some security there. And opening an iTunes account does not give them money straight away, that is just a silly thing to say altogether.

Goodshape

art wrote: »

Think you haven't really accepted the real world here - why on earth would Last.fm allow Apple use its service like that?

Last.fm has APIs that are free to use and free for developers to include in their applications. They don't have to specifically allow Apple to do anything - it's entirely up to Apple to take the initiative here and implement the service. It's simply not in their best interest to do this, when they could instead restrict you to their own services.

I remember the big hullabaloo people were making over Genius -- I couldn't help but think "huh, I've been doing that for years!". For free. And without handing over my personal financial details.

I for one would not want anyone free access to my account, I do want some security there.

Sort of a moot point as nobody is getting "access to your account" through Genius; but are you trying to imply that you'd be happy to grant such access so long as this other person has paid Apple for the privilege(of accessing your account)? Crazy. Like I said, the Last.fm feature doesn't even require an account, paid for or otherwise. It reads of the extensive database of music they already have.

And opening an iTunes account does not give them money straight away, that is just a silly thing to say altogether.

I stated two options you've got when opening an iTunes account, one of which does give them money straight away --- buying a gift card (for minimum €15 in the shops). The other method is to hand over your personal credit card information. For such a throwaway feature that can easily be emulated using a free and open service, this seems like overkill to me.

pleasant Co.

art wrote: »

What freedom do you get from doing everything at the OS level that you fail to get when using an application (any such application) specifically designed to assist in music management?

That isn't the argument I made, I said I have the freedom of CHOICE (to use software or drag and drop) when an MSC DAP is concerned, I am not restricted to only using software which is a choice I like having, because if the software is not programmed to do what I want it to do I most likely will be able to find a work around through the MSC compatibility.

art

As far as I know, Last.fm APIs cannot be used commerically, so Apple could not use them without the consent of Last.fm and I would very much doubt that consent would be "freely" given...

Last FM also has a subscription service. Otherwise it is ad driven which personally I don't like at all. And surely Last.fm does require an account? I'm pretty sure I had to create an account to use it.

What I find different with Genius compared to using Last.fm is that Genius has recommended to me stuff I never heard before whereas Last.fm never did that when I used it before, it's recommendations were quite predicable. I went back to using iTunes because of the addition of Genius and how interesting some of the recommendations proved to be. Though I also use other software depending on my needs and platform.

art

Mactard wrote: »

That isn't the argument I made, I said I have the freedom of CHOICE (to use software or drag and drop) when an MSC DAP is concerned, I am not restricted to only using software which is a choice I like having, because if the software is not programmed to do what I want it to do I most likely will be able to find a work around through the MSC compatibility.

Ah, probably arguing over too fine a point here alright - what I was reacting to was that earlier post by Goodshape that went "Drag+drop on, drag+drop off. No software, no nonsense. " which I found hard to accept as viable given the ease of use most software has over manual navigation and meticulous folder/file structures etc. I agree that it is good to be able to choose your own software but that's something I have done anyhow: I only went back to using iTunes on my main PC when they added in that Genius feature which I find very good (so far).

Goodshape

art wrote: »

As far as I know, Last.fm APIs cannot be used commerically, so Apple could not use them without the consent of Last.fm and I would very much doubt that consent would be "freely" given...

They can be used commercially and there's not necessarily a cost involved.

http://www.last.fm/api/account

Last.fm API sign-up page wrote:

In most cases we don’t charge for commercial use, but we do reserve the right to start charging fees – we will typically only do this if you are generating substantial revenues or gaining significant commercial advantage by using Last.fm data.

And it's not Apple using their own service for Genius that annoys me, it's the fact it requires an iTunes account, and that that requires your CC details.

Last FM also has a subscription service. Otherwise it is ad driven which personally I don't like at all. And surely Last.fm does require an account? I'm pretty sure I had to create an account to use it.

Depends what you want to do with it.

In the previous version of Amarok (I've not gotten my head around the new version yet, unfortunately) there was an option to automatically and dynamically populate a playlist with tracks you own based on a few tracks you pre-select yourself. It populated the rest of the playlist based on a sort of "those tunes are similar in style and taste to these ones" mechanism, and it got that information from the extensive last.fm database. A Last.fm account is not necessary for this feature.

Isn't that essentially what Genius does?

If you do create a (totally free) last.fm account, you can build a profile of your personal music tastes and get access to your 'personal radio' which will stream tracks you don't necessarily own, but might like, based on what you've listened to and favourited in the past.

No adverts from last.fm or anywhere else appear in Amarok if you choose to use these features. Last.fm are happy because it spreads the word, and spreads their userbase.


BTW, some concern over exactly what Apple are doing with the information they gather about you and the music you "own" via Genius : http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080909212821AA3nDe5

art

Goodshape wrote: »

They can be used commercially and there's not necessarily a cost involved.

http://www.last.fm/api/account

And it's not Apple using their own service for Genius that annoys me, it's the fact it requires an iTunes account, and that that requires your CC details.

Touche: that link states I must have a Last.fm account! Though I think I didn't phrase my earlier remark clearly enough, to use the api you need the consent of last.fm. Apple cannot, as you had suggested, just take the initiative and use last.fm resources. Plus, there's all sorts of conditions there in their "terms of service" that would also prevent Apple using last.fm data, it's very obviously an impossibility if you read through them.

"Unofficially" though, you could add Last.fm to the iTunes radio lists if you really wanted to. I've never tried that so can't comment on it much.

The need for an iTunes store account to use Genius is due to Genius being based on iTunes accounts. That's self explanatory really.

The bottom line is that Genius is just an added feature you can turn on or off. There's no compulsion to use it and it does not in any way impact on the other functions of iTunes. So can't really see the point in arguing against its availability in the product.

Goodshape

art wrote: »

Touche: that link states I must have a Last.fm account!

Not to use the Genius-like feature I was talking about in Amarok you don't.

Though I think I didn't phrase my earlier remark clearly enough, to use the api you need the consent of last.fm. Apple cannot, as you had suggested, just take the initiative and use last.fm resources.

Hmm, perhaps you're right. IANAL.

Which just reinforces the main point of this thread really --- why use iTunes? There's better more capable free software out there.

ooohhh... that's right! It's because iPods (newer ones and particularly iPhones at least) pretty much demand that your do.

pleasant Co.

art wrote: »

Ah, probably arguing over too fine a point here alright - what I was reacting to was that earlier post by Goodshape that went "Drag+drop on, drag+drop off. No software, no nonsense. " which I found hard to accept as viable given the ease of use most software has over manual navigation and meticulous folder/file structures etc. I agree that it is good to be able to choose your own software but that's something I have done anyhow: I only went back to using iTunes on my main PC when they added in that Genius feature which I find very good (so far).

Cool cool, just want to apologise on my tone earlier though, they way I wrote might of come of kinda dickish...didn't mean for it to come off like that...but sorry for that anyway.

art

Mactard wrote: »

Cool cool, just want to apologise on my tone earlier though, they way I wrote might of come of kinda dickish...didn't mean for it to come off like that...but sorry for that anyway.

No worries! - I've seen your posts on the forum here regularly and you've always come across as one of the most unbiased and respectable posters so took no offence!