Would you recommend a career in teaching, given the current economic climate?

Powerhouse

MissHoneyBun wrote: »

I don't want to sound smart arsed here but I am increasingly amused at the amount of people at the moment who think "Ah i'll go do teaching, it's a safe handy number" I'm sorry but that's just not how it works, not in relation to primary teaching anyway. Teaching is by and large a vocation -you're either cut out for it or you're not, so lately to hear all and sundry waffle about "considering teaching" as though it's a recessionary free for all just leaves me bewildered. As anyone who has gone through the system will readily agree, qualifying as a teacher is an intense and challenging process, not to be taken lightly. So to suggest that people should simply "consider a career in teaching" due to the "current economic climate" only serves to undermine the profession and highlight the naiviety of the unprecedented masses now considering this route.

Despite the cynicism, boards of management are obliged to restrict entry to B.Ed courses not for economic reasons but as a duty of care to the thousands of children who are indebted to the services of the teachers produced by these colleges. Therefore the entry process alone rightly involves numerous written applications, interviews, aptitude tests and orals and even then pends the approval of strict Garda vetting. I won't get in to the intricacies of the B.Ed course, suffice to say that even those from the 600 points stable have crumbled under the pressure and not made it to graduation day.

I guess my point is that teaching is a difficult job, one that presents unforeseen challenges all the way from TP to retirement. I often hear mums and dads comment on the difficulties of looking after children -well multiply that by thirty and include their formal education and you have some idea of what it is to teach children every day. Please give that responsibility the respect it deserves.

In fairness, this quite misrepresents Tom Dunne's initial post. He did not 'suggest that people should simply "consider a career in teaching" due to the "current economic climate"'.

What he asked was in fact the opposite, as I understand it. He was asking if people would consider a career in teaching despite the current economic climate where teaching prospects are taking a direct hit.

And, yes, it is true that that there is a disconcertingly high number of people who appear to suddenly decide "I'd like to do teaching" - but what's the harm in that? Not everybody is certain at 17 years of age what they want to do. The difficulty for people who decide later is that they often don't seem to consider employment prospects.

As for people not realising it's a vocation - people go into all sorts of jobs for the wrong reasons. Most 17 year olds probably become doctors because they or their parents like the money potential. Others become journalists because they want to change the world and think that the glamour attached to 0.0000001% of journalists is the norm. These may not be suited to their job, but they go in there and teaching is hardly immune from this reality.

Fast_Mover

Qualified last May with my B.Ed. Got a temporary job in the September. My school is losing a teacher due to increased class numbers, so as I was last in I'm out there in June! Going to be a bundle of fun sending out all those C.V's/S.A.E's looking for another job during the summer..and I'v my Dip to do aswell! Alot of my friends are in the same boat (minus the previous sentence as they're in the middle of theirs) The Girls school in the area should of been gaining a teacher but not now due to class numbers increase again.
Personally I wouldn't recommend anyone a job in teaching when there's not even jobs out there for the qualified people!!

Rodar08

I have to say the point above regarding people 'considering teaching' and not realising it is a vocation is not too accurate. I 'considered' it and I didn't realise I would be so good. I haven't dreamed from the age of 7 that I was going to be a mary poppins/secondary school amazment, no i did not! BUT one day I thought 'hm! Maybe I could try teaching!' So I did and realised that I love it. Anybody can decide to change career or just one day 'consider teaching'. I'm not permanent, far from it. I'm subbing - hence my next rant ............

So on a different note - it is not a job I would consider now - I am almost qualified and if I had known what I know now - I probably wouldn't have done the PGDE. I am now planning on going into another field (when I say another field I mean possibly selling sweets on a market stall - nothing too glitzy but more chance of earning a living than with teaching !) but am glad I will have the qualification to hopefully come back to teaching if things ever pick up and a job ever becomes available in it.

.................... the real reason I wanted to post was this .............some of you might not believe me and some of you may be familiar with this sort of 'behaviour' is all I can think to call it but ............

I just found out today that the school that I have been subbing at now for a long while, due to bad weather last week when a few teachers were off, actually took 6th year girls out of their classes to supervise other classes!! I JUST CAN NOT BELIEVE THIS!!!!!!!!!! I needn't even bother to explain why I can't believe this. A 3rd year I spoke to said she had a 6th year girl supervise 3 of her classes that day. Outrageous.:eek:

Powerhouse

Rodar08 wrote: »

I have to say the point above regarding people 'considering teaching' and not realising it is a vocation is not too accurate. I 'considered' it and I didn't realise I would be so good. I haven't dreamed from the age of 7 that I was going to be a mary poppins/secondary school amazment, no i did not! BUT one day I thought 'hm! Maybe I could try teaching!' So I did and realised that I love it. Anybody can decide to change career or just one day 'consider teaching'. I'm not permanent, far from it. I'm subbing - hence my next rant ............

So on a different note - it is not a job I would consider now - I am almost qualified and if I had known what I know now - I probably wouldn't have done the PGDE. I am now planning on going into another field (when I say another field I mean possibly selling sweets on a market stall - nothing too glitzy but more chance of earning a living than with teaching !) but am glad I will have the qualification to hopefully come back to teaching if things ever pick up and a job ever becomes available in it.

I would have to agree with your point on the vocation aspect of it. I thought the other poster gilded that particular lily a bit too much, but I didn't want to contradict every point that was made. There are plenty of people who would probably be very good teachers and who don't get the 'tip on the shoulder' from destiny, while we all have come across teachers who would make you wonder about destiny's judgement in these matters.

As for teaching not being a good choice employment-wise - the good news is that within twelve months it'll be seen to have better prospects than most jobs in that it will at least employ somebody.

With the banks having no money we are heading into a dark place where we could have up to 20% unemployment for at least a decade. Don't expect things to pick up in the traditional sense of that term for a generation. We might claw our way from economic oblivion to mere catastrophe but it would be folly to expect better.

Dudess

janeybabe wrote: »

worries me that I hear of so many people who are planning on going into teaching having lost jobs (or who have the threat of losing their jobs hanging over them) because they believe that it is a secure job to have during the recession.

It would indicate a serious lack of research first and foremost, because there do not seem to be the jobs in secondary teaching. Even four or five years ago - height of the boom, pre-education cuts - I knew people qualified to teach subjects like English and history who had to move to the UK to get a job. I have a relation who is a vice principal and he says it's next to impossible.
But as I was asking, primary teaching - is it as difficult on the jobs front as secondary?

BoozyBabe

I'm slightly annoyed at MissHoneyBun's post. Well, annoyed is probably too strong a word, but I don't like that big brush she's tarring everyone with!!

So, I come on here & I say, 'oh, I'm going to become a teacher' & there she is in the background rolling her eyes up to Heaven saying 'here we go, another one looking for an easy number'.

So yes, the recession is here & it just so happens this is the exact same time that I start my HDip with Hibernia. Is this the reason why I'm starting the course? Absolutely not. In fact it's bad luck for me that the recession has hit now, when it's going to be very hard for me to get a job in 18months due to all the cutbacks & qualified teachers looking for jobs.

Truth is, my Irish wasn't great, so I was told to move down from Honours after 1st year. When it came to filling my CAO I didn't have the option of going for teaching, though I'd have liked to. So, I followed a career in IT. I considered it after my degree, but again I let the Irish qualification put me off. I worked in IT for a few years. Decided to leave my job, & thought again of my desire to teach, but I couldn't go to the UK & again I didn't think I'd a chance of getting the Irish qualification. I changed jobs, worked for another 2 years & again realised IT was not the career for me & again I'd a calling for teaching.

That was over 2 years ago! Long before the recession hit. I put everything I had into learning Irish from scratch, getting myself up to a standard good enough to repeat my Hons Irish LC exam. Travelling a 4hour round trip every Sat to do so, going to the Gaeltacht, doing conversational classes, & studying every night after a hard days work. I got my Irish qualification last Aug. I then applied to Hibernia & my Irish was good enough to be offered a place.

It's not my fault that my start date just happens to be during the recession where people around me are losing their jobs.

To say that all these people are only considering a teaching career now due to the recession is hurtful to me personally, due to the amount of work I've done to get here, & the amount of work I'm going to have to do to come out the other side a qualified teacher.
It was not a decision I made lightly, to give up a career I've spent the last 10 years building up for myself to start back at the beginning again in unknown surroundings.

Rant over.

To the op. I might live to regret it, but teaching has been on my mind for way too long for me to ignore it now due to the current economy.
I'd to pay €8k just after Xmas, & it was worrying enough to do that, as I don't know if I'll be able to stay in my job, or if I'll be out of work trying to find non-existant subbing, but I HAVE to go for it. I've been given a chance I've always wanted, & I just have to take it.

Looking at it another way, when I come out the otherside qualified, I'll have two qualifications to use in order to find employment. If I can't get teaching to begin with, I could still get IT, possibly

Anyway, I've rambled on enough now.
All the best,
BB

Tom Dunne

Powerhouse wrote: »

In fairness, this quite misrepresents Tom Dunne's initial post. He did not 'suggest that people should simply "consider a career in teaching" due to the "current economic climate"'.

What he asked was in fact the opposite, as I understand it. He was asking if people would consider a career in teaching despite the current economic climate where teaching prospects are taking a direct hit..

Absolutely. Thank you for clarifying.

I am not for a moment suggesting teaching is the refuge of the redundant, I am asking if people who do see it as a vocation and are of the calibre for it should be dissuaded from considering a career in teaching, giving the severe lack of jobs.

Dudess

Rodar08 wrote: »

one day I thought 'hm! Maybe I could try teaching!' So I did and realised that I love it. Anybody can decide to change career or just one day 'consider teaching'.

Yeah I had that lightbulb moment last summer - teaching seems pretty logical for me when I take into consideration what I'm good at/my passion for education. Wish I'd realised it earlier. :mad:
There is a possibility I'll be out of work later this year - if so, I'll definitely try to get some subbing with a view to going for Hibernia. I know there are bugger all jobs though...

I just found out today that the school that I have been subbing at now for a long while, due to bad weather last week when a few teachers were off, actually took 6th year girls out of their classes to supervise other classes!! I JUST CAN NOT BELIEVE THIS!!!!!!!!!! I needn't even bother to explain why I can't believe this. A 3rd year I spoke to said she had a 6th year girl supervise 3 of her classes that day. Outrageous.:eek:

Aw, what? Certainly seems to contradict the stories I hear of all these qualified secondary teachers unable to get a job. Ridiculous.

malpas

Interesting and informative forum.. I'm not a teacher but my daughter is interested in it as her career. Any opinions on retired teachers going back teaching in their old school?..I know of two instances but have no idea if this is the general norm in schools. If such is the case it seems unfair to all young teachers trying to get hours/a job in these difficult times.

Dudess

Good point. My friend's mum does it. I suppose though, it's more desirable to have someone you know doing it - plus with plenty of experience. Makes life easier for the principal or whomever has to sort out the fill-in.

TheDriver

The reason retired people do subbing is because they are allowed under their pension agreement to do some subbing and also because they can only do a small bit, they are usually available at last minute whereas most "young" people aren't interested in last minute one day subbing and if one is, it would generally be difficult to get the same person again on another occasion

spurious

The 'available at the last minute' factor is one of the most important in our school.

When I was doing my part-time years (80s), myself and the other part-time teachers would come in every morning for ten to nine to see if there was any work available. Some days you went home with nothing and some days you got a full day. There is nobody does the same in my present school, yet most days there is work available.

The school that had children supervising younger children should be reported.

Dudess

spurious wrote: »

The 'available at the last minute' factor is one of the most important in our school.

When I was doing my part-time years (80s), myself and the other part-time teachers would come in every morning for ten to nine to see if there was any work available. Some days you went home with nothing and some days you got a full day. There is nobody does the same in my present school, yet most days there is work available.

I'd say we could be seeing a return of that...

malpas

TheDriver wrote: »

The reason retired people do subbing is because they are allowed under their pension agreement to do some subbing and also because they can only do a small bit, they are usually available at last minute whereas most "young" people aren't interested in last minute one day subbing and if one is, it would generally be difficult to get the same person again on another occasion

Surprised at this since in most jobs once you retire it's goodbye for good. In one case last year I recall that a retired teacher was teaching daily for months...I can appreciate it may make school management a bit easier but would be concerned if it deprived young teachers of critical experience and job/earning opportunities in a difficult employment environment.

Alessandra

I really resent the people who go into teaching because it is a "safe job". These are people who take the jobs from the "real" teachers and spend their lifetime moaning in the stafftoom with no real interest in what they are teaching or the individuals they teach. These people make it hard for those passionate about teaching to find a position.

Saying that if you are good enough there are positions out there for you. Some subjects like English and History have an over-supply of teachers. Others such as irish and home-ecoonomics are very much in demand. A number of my friends have secured temporary contracts for up to a year without a HDIP(they are returning to complete HDIP). They enjoy what they do. Their students will undoubtedly benefit from their passion for their subject and teaching in general. This is cliched, but if it is what you really feel you are born to do then go for it. Don't be put off by the jobs situation because teachers will always be needed and if you are good enough and explore enough avenues you'll find work.

williamsrk

your kidding my wife trained for 5 years done temp work here and there for 3 years because she couldnt find perminant job 2 years ago found full time went on contract this year told yesterday no job come september due to cut backs 7 teachers being let go reducing pupils from 400 down to 250 most students in there first year this year wiil not be able to continue next year due to this and best of all mary hannifin on today tonight last night said thenurses drs and gardi are to take pay cuts but will all have jobs to go to do not do teaching as a carreer

Rodar08

williamsrk wrote: »

your kidding my wife trained for 5 years done temp work here and there for 3 years because she couldnt find perminant job 2 years ago found full time went on contract this year told yesterday no job come september due to cut backs 7 teachers being let go reducing pupils from 400 down to 250 most students in there first year this year wiil not be able to continue next year due to this and best of all mary hannifin on today tonight last night said thenurses drs and gardi are to take pay cuts but will all have jobs to go to do not do teaching as a carreer

Oh my god that's awful :eek:. Yeah teachers are getting let go in the school I'm in too but as far as I know they don't know much yet as to who or how many. The government have been and are continuing to ruin us all. Its getting so scary. That story - if you had made it up this time last year would have been laughed at. Who thought things would ever come to this? What about the 1st years that won't be able to continue next year.

J***s what a complete mess of a situation. The principals in a lot of schools get a lot of flack from staff and I'm not exactly sticking up for them - a huge amount of them are making matters worse and feeding into the governments hands just because they want to keep their numbers up and keep the parents happy by not closing for a day when teachers are not available - as mentioned above - bringing in 6th year girls to supervise classes - that said they do have to come along after and try to piece together this disaster that the govenment are leaving behind. A teacher should never 'wing it' of course but I'd say there are not many principals who can follow a precendent for this scenario. Unbelievable.

rainbowtrout

williamsrk wrote: »

your kidding my wife trained for 5 years done temp work here and there for 3 years because she couldnt find perminant job 2 years ago found full time went on contract this year told yesterday no job come september due to cut backs 7 teachers being let go reducing pupils from 400 down to 250 most students in there first year this year wiil not be able to continue next year due to this and best of all mary hannifin on today tonight last night said thenurses drs and gardi are to take pay cuts but will all have jobs to go to do not do teaching as a carreer

that's pretty bad, but i can't understand why students would be told there is no place for them in the school, surely a school can't do that and it's pupil numbers that keep teachers there anyway. it doesn't make sense

Toto Wolfcastle

I agree, it doesn't make much sense to drop the numbers of students. I know we're increasing the numbers of first years for the coming school year so that we'll be back on quota for the following year. It may cause havoc for practical exams but desperate times etc.

On a happier note, one of our regular subs has been offered maternity leave classes and another is doing resource classes.. I'm delighted for them. It really is hard for them because they are such great teachers but there just wasn't any work for them until now.

J.R.

Rodar08 wrote: »

The principals in a lot of schools get a lot of flack from staff and I'm not exactly sticking up for them - a huge amount of them are making matters worse and feeding into the governments hands just because they want to keep their numbers up and keep the parents happy by not closing for a day when teachers are not available - QUOTE]

As far as I know if the principal closes the school for a day the DES will insist that the school remain open a day longer in the year to make up for the closure - how would the teachers feel then if the principal approached staff in May informing them they have to work X number of extra days into holidays to make up for the days he/she closed the school?

rainbowtrout

J.R. wrote: »

As far as I know if the principal closes the school for a day the DES will insist that the school remain open a day longer in the year to make up for the closure - how would the teachers feel then if the principal approached staff in May informing them they have to work X number of extra days into holidays to make up for the days he/she closed the school?

ya we were given that same reason when we asked about the more trivial concern around snow days

Rodar08

J.R. wrote: »

Rodar08 wrote: »

The principals in a lot of schools get a lot of flack from staff and I'm not exactly sticking up for them - a huge amount of them are making matters worse and feeding into the governments hands just because they want to keep their numbers up and keep the parents happy by not closing for a day when teachers are not available - QUOTE]

As far as I know if the principal closes the school for a day the DES will insist that the school remain open a day longer in the year to make up for the closure - how would the teachers feel then if the principal approached staff in May informing them they have to work X number of extra days into holidays to make up for the days he/she closed the school?

Hmm yeah I see what you are saying J.R. but I think the permanent teachers - who ultimately suffer in the end by not being able to get their classes covered - need to realise that maybe this situation needs to get worse before it gets better and in order for that to happen some sacrifices need to be made - like working an extra, say week, into the 3 month holidays to make up for the days lost throughtout this school year.

Isn't it safe to say that if the schools survive, stay open and be 'seen' to funcion as normal during all these cuts that the government will have plenty of room to say 'see, told ya, there is room for all these cuts in teaching jobs and there's certainly no need for all the sub teachers because evidence has proved that schools can function as normal without them.'

Toto Wolfcastle

Rodar08 wrote: »

Isn't it safe to say that if the schools survive, stay open and be 'seen' to funcion as normal during all these cuts that the government will have plenty of room to say 'see, told ya, there is room for all these cuts in teaching jobs and there's certainly no need for all the sub teachers because evidence has proved that schools can function as normal without them.'

Certainly if schools are seen to be functioning as normal there will the an element of 'I told ya so'. Speaking from personal experience though, our school is only functioning as normal because teachers have dragged themselves out of bed when the have been sick and going to the doctor for a cert for 1 or 2 days in case the rota couldn't cover them. They didn't want to burden the vice-principal. People are tiring of this though. Soon teachers will take the sick days they are entitled to without getting a cert, as they always have, and then school will stop functioning as normal.

One day a few weeks ago the vice-principal was supervising 2 classes at a time in the assembly hall because he had no one to cover those classes. Under no circumstances was he to send kids home, even during the last class of the day when he had 2 6th year classes cooped up in the hall.

Good luck to the government when the money runs out.

rainbowtrout

janeybabe wrote: »

Rodar08 wrote: »

Certainly if schools are seen to be functioning as normal there will the an element of 'I told ya so'. Speaking from personal experience though, our school is only functioning as normal because teachers have dragged themselves out of bed when the have been sick and going to the doctor for a cert for 1 or 2 days in case the rota couldn't cover them. They didn't want to burden the vice-principal. People are tiring of this though. Soon teachers will take the sick days they are entitled to without getting a cert, as they always have, and then school will stop functioning as normal.

One day a few weeks ago the vice-principal was supervising 2 classes at a time in the assembly hall because he had no one to cover those classes. Under no circumstances was he to send kids home, even during the last class of the day when he had 2 6th year classes cooped up in the hall.

Good luck to the government when the money runs out.

It's much the same story in my school. We haven't been hit badly with sickness but I have noticed that everyone that has been sick since january has been certified, and I said it on another thread, it will probably lead to some teachers taking a minimum of 3 days off instead of just one or two.

Also if teachers are late/ ring in sick at the last minute the principal or vice principal is covering the class or bringing them down to assembly to keep an eye on them. schools are surviving but it can't continue like this indefinitely.

Toto Wolfcastle

rainbowtrout wrote: »

schools are surviving but it can't continue like this indefinitely.

The funny thing is that it's actually costing the government more money now that there is more certified leave with the cost of employing a sub. Having said that, and in keeping with the topic of this thread, I am glad in a way that teachers have certs because it means that subs can be employed. (Although I certainly don't agree with the pressure put on teachers to get a cert.)

rainbowtrout

Rodar08 wrote: »

Hmm yeah I see what you are saying J.R. but I think the permanent teachers - who ultimately suffer in the end by not being able to get their classes covered - need to realise that maybe this situation needs to get worse before it gets better and in order for that to happen some sacrifices need to be made - like working an extra, say week, into the 3 month holidays to make up for the days lost throughtout this school year.

If this is to be the case I can see an awful lot of staff days or inservice ahead. Classes can't go on in schools when the LC/JC exams are taking place. It's just not practical. I'd imagine that principals will send year groups home rather than close the school for the day to prevent this happening.

A letter signed by every principal in Roscommon was sent to all the parents of students in schools in the county in December informing them as such. It also outlined possible (probable) job losses and possible loss of subjects in schools.

Rodar08

janeybabe wrote: »

Certainly if schools are seen to be functioning as normal there will the an element of 'I told ya so'. Speaking from personal experience though, our school is only functioning as normal because teachers have dragged themselves out of bed when the have been sick and going to the doctor for a cert for 1 or 2 days in case the rota couldn't cover them. They didn't want to burden the vice-principal. People are tiring of this though. Soon teachers will take the sick days they are entitled to without getting a cert, as they always have, and then school will stop functioning as normal.

One day a few weeks ago the vice-principal was supervising 2 classes at a time in the assembly hall because he had no one to cover those classes. Under no circumstances was he to send kids home, even during the last class of the day when he had 2 6th year classes cooped up in the hall.

Good luck to the government when the money runs out.

That's exactly how i feel Janeybabe. We're on the same page. They might be functioning for now - but it won't and can't last.

Now ..... any volunteers for a Curriculum & Assessment essay? Education & Society? NO?:eek:. How about Psychology of Education? Oh come on! :pac::D!! Hmm the joys. Any advice on how to write about 10, 000 words inside about 9 days? ok, I'll carry on then so :rolleyes:.

rainbowtrout

janeybabe wrote: »

The funny thing is that it's actually costing the government more money now that there is more certified leave with the cost of employing a sub. Having said that, and in keeping with the topic of this thread, I am glad in a way that teachers have certs because it means that subs can be employed. (Although I certainly don't agree with the pressure put on teachers to get a cert.)

True at least it's generating some work. Government have shot themselves in the foot with that one. I can see the logic of taking a few days too, if you're going to pay €50 to go and see a doctor and get a cert you may as well get value out of it. Not many are going to get a cert for one day's sickness

freire

This was always gonna be the way. Fact is though that some teachers take too many 'mental health' days. Puts the pressure on all other staff with kids hyper and unmotivated to focus when they do get a class that ain't free.

Referring to the title of thread though - as I never tire of repeating; best, most infuriating, gratifying, frustrating, thankless, stimulating and rewarding job in the world.

CraftySue

Fact is though that some teachers take too many 'mental health' days

Is this not a bit of an urban myth. Bat O' Keefe tried to say that the cuts were partly in response a large amount of teacher absenteism. He finally had to admit that on average, teachers take 1 day sick leave per year.