Zeitgeist

6th

jackiebrown wrote: »

I wouldn't be so arrogant as to tell you what to do.

I wouldnt take it as being arrogant, I'm simply asking for pointers as to what way you think I (and others like me) can make a difference.

jackiebrown

6th wrote: »

I wouldnt take it as being arrogant, I'm simply asking for pointers as to what way you think I (and others like me) can make a difference.

Well its seems that you're quite happy with the situation at the moment so any move from the staus quo may not be of benefit to you.

6th

Its not about benefitting me, its about changing the world?

Veni Vedi Vici

6th wrote: »

Its not about benefitting me, its about changing the world?

Gemeinshaft, gesellschaft.

6th

Veni Vedi Vici wrote: »

Gemeinshaft, gesellschaft.

You could have fleshed that out a bit but I get what you mean.

Veni Vedi Vici

Just a fleating sociological reference to the individual versus collectivity. I felt it was relevant.

More info here...

jackiebrown

6th wrote: »

Its not about benefitting me, its about changing the world?

Ok 6th, here goes for what its worth <inhales>

We live in a world full of inequality, where through a mere coincidence i.e place of birth, religious background, race etc groups of people suffer proportionally more than they need to, simply because of greed. This is what I see, I can't wear rose tinted specticles and just pretend everythings fine cause that would be a lie. Do I have answers? Not one 6th and believe me I wish I did. Maybe I'm just not smart enough.

I see a world based on divisions, simple things, unimportant things yet they seem to dominate our existance. "That person is also a christian but has statues of Jesus which he prays to. Lets kill him." And vice versa. "That person is Pakistani and that person is indian", dangerously different. These differences are supported by people in power because as we know, power corrupts and any meeting of minds on any matter with result in dissolving of that power which will be contested at all costs, no matter how many lives are destroyed doing it.

Now the only way we can do this is to:

1. Power to the people (Why not have a government run like boards. All sections and threads relative to the running of the country, if your intrested then comment, if not dont complain and if when you dont like the outcome then tough cause you actually DID have a chance to input, polls could be attached to every thread)

2. Remove money (tricky I grant you) Its possibly the biggest prob we have. We have to stop judging our self worth on how much we bring home each week. First question you hear when out "So what do you do for a living". I'm employed and dont earn very much but I live OK and not embarrased by what I do but some people would be. Why? A doctor will still be a doctor, a sculpter will still sculpt.

3. Restrict religious laws from society: Make believe should not be taught in schools. Only facts.

4. Education: 8hrs a day, five days a week stuck in a dingy classroom when you 5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 years old is a disgrace. There should be outside activities as much as classed based i.e sculpture, carpentry, fishing, farming etc. Not every person is suited to being idle at that age.

5. Emphasise similarities: Your not born a racist, you're grown.

6. Make a peace pact with the rest of the world.

There's prob more but I'm under time pressure here. Do you think any of this is achieveable or just a dream? What are you willing to sacrafice?

Veni Vedi Vici

Great post jackiebrown.

6th wrote: »

I look around and i see love, a sense of community (very evident here on Boards.ie), maybe I'm just lucky? I have a wife who I fell in love with when I was 15, I have 2 beautiful kids, I have a home, a job (for now ) I have my family around me? I have my health, I have good friends .... is all that an illusion? I made my life what it is and I'm happy with it. Maybe if things went wrong for me or I was lazy then I'd blame others for my situation?

I have a problem however with this post (the post, not the poster. 6th after all is my new favorite mod).

You see a 'love' and a 'sense of community' that is confined to your locus. I think its very subjective and a prime example of psychological compartmentalization. What does the starving disease ridden Africans of the third world see? What do the massacred, tortured and oppressed individuals of Burma and Tibet see? What do sentient animals gathered to be culled as foodstuffs see?

Your post implies (and I'm sure you didn't actually mean this) that the anthiseses of the 'love' you described is only an issue when it affects you. This comes across as selfish (the post, not you).

The post also implies that the reprimanding (or 'blaming' as you put it) is indicative of a person who is lazy. Since when did caring become synonymous with apathy?

To answer your question: no, its not illusory but it suggests extreme subjectivity.

uncleoswald

jackiebrown wrote: »

We live in a world full of inequality, where through a mere coincidence i.e place of birth, religious background, race etc groups of people suffer proportionally more than they need to, simply because of greed.

Not simply because of greed because that is, er, overly simplistic. Its also because like you already said place of birth, and background, and dumb luck, and incompetence.

Your points:

1."Power to the people" Would never work. You'd have those that complain the loudest getting what they wanted. The Government would be just like the Joe Duffy show.

2. "Remove money" Ah money, the root of all evil. Except it isn't is it? And I notice you don't put forward another solution. If you ban money then someone will simply give the doctor (who might not be the smartest in the world as where would be the incentive for the brighter people in the world to become doctors when the can just lounge around and sculpt?) a few extra chickens so they get the better treatment. Before money we had bartering and there will always be some way for people to judge the service they provide.

3."Restrict religious laws from society." Well as a firm non believer I sympathies but that is hardly a form of equality. The thing that most confuses me about your arguments is that you say things like "differences are supported by people in power because as we know, power corrupts" but most of the time we hear that the government is tryng to suppress individuality and promote conformity as its easier to control a placid conformed populace. Also, inforcement of this will leads to conflicts with your point number 6.

4. "Education." While I believe there are many flaws in the education system, the competitive result based nature means that at times schools are forced to think more of their own curve rather then what is best for an individual child, I fail to see how teaching fishing is going to improve matters.

5. "Emphasise similarities" But to claim that this isn't been pushed by most governments is ridiculous. And they would do it a lot more except the "PC gone mad" and "nanny state" merchants come out in force whenever it happens.

6. "Make a peace pact with the rest of the world." How nice. Just a little simplistic though no? Take the current developments in Nothern Ireland, huge efforts have been made on both sides, and the British, Irish and American governments to bring peace to the area and then a few mindless idiots go and do that to put it all in danger?

Veni Vedi Vici
I think its very subjective and a prime example of psychological compartmentalization. What does the starving disease ridden Africans of the third world see? What do the massacred, tortured and oppressed individuals of Burma and Tibet see? What do sentient animals gathered to be culled as foodstuffs see?
Your post implies (and I'm sure you didn't actually mean this) that the anthiseses of the 'love' you described is only an issue when it affects you. This comes across as selfish (the post, not you).

But most of this tread has been about the individual so I don't for a second thing its a bad thing for 6th admit to looking around and finding that he is indeed very happy in his life and to see that there is indeed good in the world. He didn't say there was only good, he just choses to take in the good as much as possible. You might think 6th living his life as happily and best he can is an insult to the suffering people of the world but do you really think they would give a rats ass if he removed himself from society and burned his IDs and money? Infact they might see it as a little selfish and self-satisfied no?

The fact is there are far more people living in the "system" doing good around the world then there are living outside the "system" and moaning about everything.

6th

Veni Vedi Vici wrote: »

I have a problem however with this post (the post, not the poster. 6th after all is my new favorite mod).

You see a 'love' and a 'sense of community' that is confined to your locus. I think its very subjective and a prime example of psychological compartmentalization. What does the starving disease ridden Africans of the third world see? What do the massacred, tortured and oppressed individuals of Burma and Tibet see? What do sentient animals gathered to be culled as foodstuffs see?

Your post implies (and I'm sure you didn't actually mean this) that the anthiseses of the 'love' you described is only an issue when it affects you. This comes across as selfish (the post, not you).

The post also implies that the reprimanding (or 'blaming' as you put it) is indicative of a person who is lazy. Since when did caring become synonymous with apathy?

To answer your question: no, its not illusory but it suggests extreme subjectivity.

I am selfish, we all are, so you're right. It appears that no one hear is taking things global. What I am doing is taking care of my direct environment and the people in it. I dont blame everyone who is in a bad way but I do think that so many people can do things about their situations but dont. Those people are the folks who vote in a government and then complain, the people who live above their means and get annoyed when they have to face the consequences. The people who will complain how bad things are and do nothing to make changes.

So far no one on here has said what they are doing to make changes, changes that arent selfish.

On a spiritual level I do more on a larger scale but this isnt the forum for that stuff.

6th

A truely great post jb.

jackiebrown wrote: »

We live in a world full of inequality, where through a mere coincidence i.e place of birth, religious background, race etc groups of people suffer proportionally more than they need to, simply because of greed. This is what I see, I can't wear rose tinted specticles and just pretend everythings fine cause that would be a lie.

Very true. I try to live my life without judging others based on race, religion or social standing. I also teach my kids to do the same.

jackiebrown wrote: »

Do I have answers? Not one 6th and believe me I wish I did. Maybe I'm just not smart enough.

I'm the same. I can't change things on a large scale but I'll do my best with what I have.

jackiebrown wrote: »

I see a world based on divisions, simple things, unimportant things yet they seem to dominate our existance. "That person is also a christian but has statues of Jesus which he prays to. Lets kill him." And vice versa. "That person is Pakistani and that person is indian", dangerously different. These differences are supported by people in power because as we know, power corrupts and any meeting of minds on any matter with result in dissolving of that power which will be contested at all costs, no matter how many lives are destroyed doing it.

Now the only way we can do this is to:

1. Power to the people (Why not have a government run like boards. All sections and threads relative to the running of the country, if your intrested then comment, if not dont complain and if when you dont like the outcome then tough cause you actually DID have a chance to input, polls could be attached to every thread)

Boards.ie is privately owned. If they decided to to start changing things there is nothing we could do about it. Anyway the problem with Power to the People is largely the people themselves. The majority like to complain and sit on their asses.

2. Remove money (tricky I grant you) Its possibly the biggest prob we have. We have to stop judging our self worth on how much we bring home each week. First question you hear when out "So what do you do for a living". I'm employed and dont earn very much but I live OK and not embarrased by what I do but some people would be. Why? A doctor will still be a doctor, a sculpter will still sculpt.

Asking what someone does for a living is a coomon question and one built into us (when it comes to finding a prospective partner) because we look for security. Its the equivelent of doing for the lion with the largest main.

3. Restrict religious laws from society: Make believe should not be taught in schools. Only facts.

It should be an opinion all right but banning it would do a lot of harm. Despite many religious groups being crap belief itself is one of the most powerful forces in the world. Its a good thing and a bad thing, what people will do in the name of their beliefs is amazing - we should use that to promote acceptance and harmony.

4. Education: 8hrs a day, five days a week stuck in a dingy classroom when you 5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 years old is a disgrace. There should be outside activities as much as classed based i.e sculpture, carpentry, fishing, farming etc. Not every person is suited to being idle at that age.

People can make a difference on a local level with this. I have a daughter in playschool and they get out all the time, rain or shine. We (as parents) chose a school locally where she can walk to school and not spend all day travelling. Its not the best school but it will mean more time with family and her friends will be local - its all about community.

5. Emphasise similarities: Your not born a racist, you're grown.

True. If you have children then raise them right.

6. Make a peace pact with the rest of the world.

A nice idea but so many obsticales. One step at a time I suppose.

There's prob more but I'm under time pressure here. Do you think any of this is achieveable or just a dream? What are you willing to sacrafice?

Going by my answers I dont think I need to sacrifice? They are mostly achievable and only really take alot of people making really small changes.

jackiebrown

uncleoswald wrote: »

1."Power to the people" Would never work. You'd have those that complain the loudest getting what they wanted. The Government would be just like the Joe Duffy show.

You're right its oversimplistic. I didn't think I written a complete thesis on a new society. Maybe I will.

1. Maybe if we just had a complete free for all then we'd have what you imagine. It's more to do with fastracking to a source of change, one which the participant can be directly involved in. There should be guidelines to the use of this resource.

2. "Remove money" Ah money, the root of all evil. Except it isn't is it? And I notice you don't put forward another solution. If you ban money then someone will simply give the doctor (who might not be the smartest in the world as where would be the insentive for the brighter people in the world to become doctors when the can just lounge around and sculpt?) a few extra chickens so they get the better treatment. Before money we had bartering and there will always be some way for people to judge the service they provide.

Money is the source of power. Power is the root of all evil.

3."Restrict religious laws from society." Well as a firm non believer I sympathies but that is hardly a form of equality. The thing that most confuses me about your arguments is that you say things like "differences are supported by people in power because as we know, power corrupts" but most of the time we hear that the government is tryng to suppress individuality and promote conformity as its easier to control a placid conformed populace.

Well you're definately not understanding me here. I said religious laws. Outside of school and in their own time they can follow whichever path in life. I dont want my leader saying that "god" decides his foreign policy. One rule for all, Freedom.

4. "Education." While I believe there are many flaws in the education system, the competitive result based nature means that at times schools are forced to think more of their own curve rather then what is best for an individual child, I fail to see how teaching fishing is going to improve matters.

Do you understand why there are so many disallusioned young people in this country? Do you understand why so much thuggary and crime? Read above quote.

5. "Emphasise similarities" But to claim that this isn't been pushed by most governments is ridiculous. And they would do it a lot more except the "PC gone mad" and "nanny state" merchants come out in force whenever it happens.

I'm talking about equality, not prejudice. If you don't see this as a big problem then I'm sorry, but your wrong

6. "Make a peace pact with the rest of the world." How nice. Just a little simplistic though no? Take the current developments in Nothern Ireland, huge efforts have been made on both sides, and the British, Irish and American governments to bring peace to the area and then a few mindless idiots go and do that to put it all in danger?

"Dear distinguished leaders from across our world. The people of Ireland and I welcome you here for a defining moment in our history. We believe that with the almost universal acceptane of the Global Peace charter, with the unfortunate refusal of Zimbabwe. How'd have thought President Mugabe would still be around at 132 years old. Well Mugabe as the charter says, You dont f*** with us we wont f*** with you". What do you think, too simplistic?

Sofa_King Good

Not having a go but you said you try not to judge people which is good but the problem is that everyone can only see the world through their own eyes and even extremists consider their position rational.

When you said that people only borrow because they are greedy that was a major generalisation and judgement call.

What of the single mother who borrows from the local loan shark to give her children a better christmas?
Or the low-income family who borrow to send their children to a better school? Or provide a sick child with the treatment of the rich. Umpteen different reasons, their not all to upgrade to a sports car they can't afford.

This is not a bitter poverty stricken disassociated rant. I am myself debt free, own my own apartment in Sweden where I am soon to start in the family business.

You sound like you live a good family life and I respect that. Its just that everyone thinks that they don't pass unfair judgement when everyone does, especially me.

uncleoswald

jackiebrown wrote: »

You're right its oversimplistic. I didn't think I written a complete thesis on a new society. Maybe I will.

1. Maybe if we just had a complete free for all then we'd have what you imagine. It's more to do with fastracking to a source of change, one which the participant can be directly involved in. There should be guidelines to the use of this resource.

Yes but that will just get more and more complicated until you have something that looks suspiciously like a democratic government. It ain't perfect but its the best we have. The best we can do is police it and make sure no one has too much power, but enough power to get things done.

Money is the source of power. Power is the root of all evil.

Yes absolute power currupts but surely you are not suggesting that anyone with power wields it like an evil doer from a comic book? So are you suggesting that no one can have any power?

Well you're definately not understanding me here. I said religious laws. Outside of school and in their own time they can follow whichever path in life. I dont want my leader saying that "god" decides his foreign policy. One rule for all, Freedom.

Like I said I agree but just try implementing that. From your own point of view with the upbringing you've had and the secular life you live it may seem easy and you might shudder when you hear Tony Blaire et all speak like that but they are only the tip of the iceberg. In most countries at this time implementation of such laws would lead to violence and maybe even civil war. People would see it as encroaching their freedoms and they would have a god given right/duty to fight for what they believed. Like I said before, that doesn't really fit with your point no 6.

Do you understand why there are so many disallusioned young people in this country? Do you understand why so much thuggary and crime? Read above quote.

Well I think its a number of factors. Are you saying its because they are not fishing enough?

I'm talking about equality, not prejudice. If you don't see this as a big problem then I'm sorry, but your wrong

Of course it is a problem but its a problem thats been worked on. And your original point did seem to be refering to prejudice, not equality. I definitly don't think governments promote racism for their own benift as you seem to suggest here:

These differences are supported by people in power

How would that even work to their benifit?

"Dear distinguished leaders from across our world. The people of Ireland and I welcome you here for a defining moment in our history. We believe that with the almost universal acceptane of the Global Peace charter, with the unfortunate refusal of Zimbabwe. How'd have thought President Mugabe would still be around at 132 years old. Well Mugabe as the charter says, You dont f*** with us we wont f*** with you". What do you think, too simplistic?

Er yeah. I really don't know what you mean here. Are you suggesting we invade Zimbabwe? Thats one way to make a peace pact with the world I guess...

Mahatma coat

may I subscribe to your Blog And/or newsletter good sir

Secularisation of society was a cornerstone of Republics and also one of the first casulties of most nation building exercises

Education is key alright, some of the schools over her also have gardens where the kids lern about farmin animals & growin stuff, they also go to the beach ina lot of the schools and learn about aquaculture, they have science and debting clubs and generally offer a more 'well rounded' education process not all the schools do tho and you can tell which type of school the kid is atending fierce quick in a conversation

Money is not something we can get rid of tho, we just need to re evaluate the concept of value.

jackiebrown

Thanks for the discussion guys. Opened my eyes a bit. KUTGW

Sofa: I'm not sure if you were talking to me in your post. If so, you've misunderstood. If not, I've misunderstood.

6th: Your doing more than me, which you guessed anyway. I do think we are moving in the right direction and your right, lots of people making small changes can make a differance. I'd just like to give it a kick up the ass that's all.:D

Uncleswold: No, I'm not suggesting we invade Zimbabwe. It's a dramatisation of possible future events which...........never mind.

Peace.

Veni Vedi Vici

I agree with much of what's been posted thus far since each post is exlempary of the right intentions even we differ by the means. It seems we have distinct schools of thought:

Classes:

1. Those who are not aware or simply do not care.
2. Those who focus on the welfare their immediate but are aware of our shortcomings as a global community.
3. Those who focus on both their immediate, national and global welfare.

6th has asked directly what is it that we do to sustain and expand on this welfare? Its a valid question. I find personally (and I suspect that many of the most you shall too) that I think and discuss far more than I would like to act. These threads rarely lead to action.

Is there any possibility at all, under the revamped modding approach that we can nail down between us a conpiracy that we all agree on. As on online community I feel we have the correct balance of CT'ers and skeptics to isolate a commendable theory and thereafter begin to collaborate and actually take some action.

Bare in mind that our findings would eventually be presented to the public so I suggest that we leave extremist conspiracy theories at the door (no anti-semitics or lizard hunters need apply)

Any suggestions anyone? This may need a poll.

jackiebrown

Me again. Backed out a bit too soon I think. Uncles made some decent points and I'd like to aproach them.

Yes but that will just get more and more complicated until you have something that looks suspiciously like a democratic government. It ain't perfect but its the best we have. The best we can do is police it and make sure no one has too much power, but enough power to get things done.

My Problem is that pretty much everything wrong in society today stems from an abuse of power and bad leadership. Now I've worked in positions of responsibility before in retail management. Ok, it's not running the world but shows that to get the best out of the people around you then you have to lead by example. What has our last government shown us, only how to run at country at 200 miles an hour and breakdown. The amount of money wasted was amazing and corruption unrestrained. I've had enough.

Yes absolute power currupts but surely you are not suggesting that anyone with power wields it like an evil doer from a comic book? So are you suggesting that no one can have any power?

The fact that every problem in society is due to some leader being drunk on power, then yes, idont believe people should have the power. It should be diluted. To test anything new you first need to do it on a small scale. Ireland is perfect. I think we could be a shining example of how to build a society based on ethics.

Like I said I agree but just try implementing that. From your own point of view with the upbringing you've had and the secular life you live it may seem easy and you might shudder when you hear Tony Blaire et all speak like that but they are only the tip of the iceberg. In most countries at this time implementation of such laws would lead to violence and maybe even civil war. People would see it as encroaching their freedoms and they would have a god given right/duty to fight for what they believed. Like I said before, that doesn't really fit with your point no 6.

Well at least we agree on something:D. Seriously I hear ye. The uproar would be incredable. But we agree. A lot of other people agree. We feel it has no place in the classroom. Why should we just accept it then?

Well I think its a number of factors. Are you saying its because they are not fishing enough?

Not every child is suited to sitting in class all the time, and I think that actually learning about things in the real world is better than a textbook. The greatest painter of his generation couldv'e gone through life never touching a paint brush. I think instead of teaching every kid the same, we need to give them a wide veriety of learning scenarios and focus in on their strengths. Only way to do this is computers. Each curiculum has interactive coursework and each child works at their own pace. The stats will be available to the teacher. If someones getting stuck it'll show up on their screen where they can support and encourage. Graphs will show their abilities in all areas. If someone is showing ahead in maths. Fastrack them. If in art, focus in.

How would that even work to their benifit?

Ye I'm all over the place a bit, sorry. What I meant was in other countries i.e middle east, North Korea etc. The differences in these countries (most) are actively promoted by their governmants.

jackiebrown

Veni Vedi Vici wrote: »

I agree with much of what's been posted thus far since each post is exlempary of the right intentions even we differ by the means. It seems we have distinct schools of thought:

Classes:

1. Those who are not aware or simply do not care.
2. Those who focus on the welfare their immediate but are aware of our shortcomings as a global community.
3. Those who focus on both their immediate, national and global welfare.

6th has asked directly what is it that we do to sustain and expand on this welfare? Its a valid question. I find personally (and I suspect that many of the most you shall too) that I think and discuss far more than I would like to act. These threads rarely lead to action.

Is there any possibility at all, under the revamped modding approach that we can nail down between us a conpiracy that we all agree on. As on online community I feel we have the correct balance of CT'ers and skeptics to isolate a commendable theory and thereafter begin to collaborate and actually take some action.

Bare in mind that our findings would eventually be presented to the public so I suggest that we leave extremist conspiracy theories at the door (no anti-semitics or lizard hunters need apply)

Any suggestions anyone? This may need a poll.

Well if you want to e-mail them to death I'm there.:pac: But I think your right that if we can find a common issue then we could make our view heard. It's all about the numbers though.

Veni Vedi Vici

jackiebrown wrote: »

Well if you want to e-mail them to death I'm there.:pac: But I think your right that if we can find a common issue then we could make our view heard. It's all about the numbers though.

Cohesion, solidarity, numbers. Whatever we may call it the premise for progessions exists here. Lone gone are the days of rounding up Paddy's around the food market. An online forum should be more than sufficent for us to gain minimal closure on a topic that satiates all.

It would seem that the last time the Irish people agreed with each other was under the rule of Brian Buru. Now's as good a time as any I say to you.

We need to network and accrue, network and acrue and then some thereafter. So long as we remain in factions our respective destinies are forever crooked.

Apologies for the waxation of the poetic. Three bottles of bargain end wine and a slight excuse for occasion will do that to the best of us (and yet does not drunkeness not represent the apex of Irish charm ). Nonetheless I stand by my convictions. A common ground, a common motive, an common entity for a swift result for each of us all.

meglome

Lads I've yet to hear just how society is worse now than it was in the past. As far as I can see nearly everything you've described was much worse in the past.

Veni Vedi Vici

meglome wrote: »

Lads I've yet to hear just how society is worse now than it was in the past. As far as I can see nearly everything you've described was much worse in the past.

Let's say for arguments sake that a comparison of the discrepancies of the past break dead even with those of the present.

Are we now not more educated and adept to tackle the shortcomings of our global community?

Mahatma coat

meglome wrote: »

Lads I've yet to hear just how society is worse now than it was in the past. As far as I can see nearly everything you've described was much worse in the past.

oooh can I have a go in your time machine so that I too may objectivly judge the past by our standards, and then maybe we could whip forward a thousand years and judge us by their standards.

Seriously anyone livin as a citizen in Rome 2500 years ago was, as far as they were concerned, at the cutteng edge of civilisation, they had 'representative' government, central heating,Indoor plumbing, slaves, schools and daycare, libraries, public baths, bakeries, resturaunts, theaters, GLADIATORS, stable economies, a road network that enabled communication like never before, modern methods of transportation, and a general sense that their way of life would persevere throughout the ages.

So what has changed, besides the acquisition of a few nifty little gadgets to to replace the slaves?

Veni Vedi Vici

Mahatma coat wrote: »

So what has changed, besides the acquisition of a few nifty little gadgets to to replace the slaves?

Heh, besides the sweath shops it's funny because it true.

King Mob

Mahatma coat wrote: »

So what has changed, besides the acquisition of a few nifty little gadgets to to replace the slaves?

Medicine, science, education, philosophy, emancipation, free expression of ideas, uncensored instant communication, abundant crops, safe travel, fair courts, human rights and so on.
I for one particularly enjoy not dying of an infection or having my children die due to disease not being understood.

But other than that I'd love to live in a over simplistic view of the wealthier part of Roman life. I'd hate to be part of the vast majority of people who had no access to to any to the stuff listed. Or worse being a Roman slave.

Veni Vedi Vici

Veni Vedi Vici wrote: »

Let's say for arguments sake that a comparison of the discrepancies of the past break dead even with those of the present.

Are we now not more educated and adept to tackle the shortcomings of our global community?

Directed at KM.

King Mob

Veni Vedi Vici wrote: »

Directed at KM.

Yes, due to better education, free expression, not being ruled by "divine representatives" and mostly living longer due to not dying from curable diseases.

Veni Vedi Vici

King Mob wrote: »

Yes, due to better education, free expression, not being ruled by "divine representatives" and mostly living longer due to not dying from curable diseases.

Granted . And altruistically?

King Mob

Veni Vedi Vici wrote: »

Granted . And altruistically?

Well we actually have social welfare were I think the Roman policy was to let you starve.
Far from perfect but definitely better than what most of the Romans had.

Veni Vedi Vici

King Mob wrote: »

Well we actually have social welfare were I think the Roman policy was to let you starve.
Far from perfect but definitely better than what most of the Romans had.

All accurate as expected but the question is are we not in a position to leverage our global welfare by our acquired altruism as a result of our progression in opposition to our predecessors?

I honestly don't know the answer. I'm just throwing it out there.