How come kids in low socio-economic groups are more likely to be skangers?

Donald-Duck

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Scum breeding scum, nothing new there. The only difference is we are now three or four generations into this situation. Time to legalise abortion me thinks.

More like make it compulsory in some cases.

brianthebard

SpookyDoll wrote: »

Thats true. Im working class and it was never in a million years contemplated that any of us would go to college, its just not thought of.
(I did end up going but organised and financed it myself)

Wheras middle class kids and parents expect the kids to go to college.
Its assumed to be an automatic next step after secondary school, the parents even start saving for it when the kids are small and then pay for it for them too. Even stupid middle class kids expect a place in college.

Working classes just dont have that expectation.

I'm working class and it was always thought I would go to uni, even before there was such a thing as free fees. Omg personal experiences can prove or disprove anything!

The_Minister

brianthebard wrote: »

I'm working class and it was always thought I would go to uni, even before there was such a thing as free fees. Omg personal experiences can prove or disprove anything!

In this context, most people are referring to working class when they (we) really
mean workless class (thank you Tories).
If your parents were employed hard-working working class people, then you aren't who anyone is talking about.
If your parents sit at home on benefits all day, then I you are.

Prof.Badass

deleriumtremens wrote: »

In this case, by bad genes I mean "genes that code for a nervous system with underdeveloped frontal lobes (which predisposes somebody towards commiting crime as the frontal lobes are responsible for forethought) and/or other brain feature commensurate with being antisocial"
People underestimate the contribution genetics makes to the personality of person and, in my opinion, the main reason scumbags are the way they are in because of the saturation of bad genes amongst the lower classes.
In fairness, if you ever watch jeremy kyle you will remark at how ever one of the people "looks like a scumbag" in terms of facial features (and i'm not talking about things like clothes or earings, thats a trend thing)

This has nothing to do with genes. I have known many intelligent "skangers" just as i have known D4-heads who are as thick as 2 planks.

Your brain is incredibly flexible when you're young (particularly from 0-4).It loses this flexibility at around 16. The more you use it as a child the more intelligent you'll be as an adult. If genes had such a huge infleunce then why are people with microcephaly nowhere near as retarded as you'd think?

Comments like yours sicken me. Going back 2 or 3 generations most of the irish middle class have working class roots. In fact our english overlords probably made the exact same idiotic statements about us that you are making against "lower class" people.

Terry

Terry wrote: »

Ahh. I see.

The point?

SpookyDoll

brianthebard wrote: »

I'm working class and it was always thought I would go to uni, even before there was such a thing as free fees. Omg personal experiences can prove or disprove anything!

Yeh, I was suprised reading Slipps quote there on the previous page:

My family would have been considered working class when I was growing up, we lived in a working class area and I went to a working class school in what most people that weren't from there would say was a very rough area. I have 3 siblings, we all went to college, it was expected of us and a reasonable amount of expectation was put on us that it was what was expected of us.

So evidently different experiences for different people, maybe its generational or something.

I think the point being your class doesn't matter, its more your outlook. Some people are content to accept what comes their way and moan about it but do nothing (cursing the darkness rather than lighting a candle) and others will break their balls trying to better themselves.

Thats the difference between good people and scumbags, personal responsibility.

Scumbags will blame everyone and everything for the way they are, good people will get off their asses and try to better themselves, behave decently and refuse to be scum.

stovelid

Never in the field of social classes were so many explained by so few not actually from that class.

Fighting Irish

their parents

simple

Gyalist

ShagNastii wrote: »

Sorry to be blunt but this post has merit. Every scummer I've met is a thick as sh1t

That's untrue. There are many that are very intelligent but the education system fails them. Teachers expect them to fail and so they do. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Cuddlesworth

stovelid wrote: »

Never in the field of social classes were so many explained by so few not actually from that class.

I started my life in lower class areas. Funny, since my parents managed to save up enough money to get the fcuk out of dodge with three kids. I had good parenting and didn't end up like some of the people I knew when I was younger. Their parents weren't interested in going anywhere, it was grand for them.

Later on I worked solely in Council housing in Clondalkin and Ballyfermet. I met loads of nice people, good parents and hard workers. You know the difference between them and the scum?

They looked after their children and they had aspirations to leave the area. the scum didn't. They were lazy, ungrateful and didn't care about anything but the TV and some tins.

Calibos

deleriumtremens wrote: »

I'm sure you will agree that people from lower class backgrounds will generally only tend to marry other people from lower class backgrounds..(because people from higher socio-economic classes are obviously going to try to get the best "deal" they can get and, put frankly, that isnt going to be somebody content to live off benefits and drink their heads off and be abusive).

As a result of this, bad genes will be mixing with bad genes. In this case, by bad genes I mean "genes that code for a nervous system with underdeveloped frontal lobes (which predisposes somebody towards commiting crime as the frontal lobes are responsible for forethought) and/or other brain feature commensurate with being antisocial"
People underestimate the contribution genetics makes to the personality of person and, in my opinion, the main reason scumbags are the way they are in because of the saturation of bad genes amongst the lower classes.
In fairness, if you ever watch jeremy kyle you will remark at how ever one of the people "looks like a scumbag" in terms of facial features (and i'm not talking about things like clothes or earings, thats a trend thing)

Hmmm. I've often said something similar too. Its not a hard and fast rule but it seems to have some merit. There is a particular 'look' to a lot of skanger. Bottom of the barrel genes tbh. At the risk of sounding even more like an uber menschen its just a simple fact that some groups of people have better more healthy gene combinations than others. I don't look down at people with lesser genes assuming they are decent people. I may have genes that make for a healthier body with better immune system, higher intelligence, greater fitness etc but that does not make me better in a human sense but certainly 'better' in a genetic sense. I don't go round conciously thinking, "I'm genetically better than him, him, her....." but sometimes it does occur to me for one reason or another, "unlucky sod, a bit thick and he catches every bug going and now riddled with cancer" I am not a better person, maybe a worse 'person' but it is a simple fact that I am better genetically.

Often reminded of this when you see the poor folks protesting about a mobile phone transmitter tower supposedly causing a load of cancers in the area. Its funny how there are never these cancer hotspots around transmitters located in more affluent areas. You see the photo of the protesters and I am sorry but it is painfully obvious that these poor people just aren't of healthy genetic stock and are more prone to cancer and their socio-economic group is a lot less likey eat healthily and more likely to drink like fish and smoke like chimneys.

So I am not a nazi believer in the unter menschen but I'm sorry, its just a simple fact that some people are genetically better than others though not necessarily better 'people'.

Terry

vinylmesh wrote: »

Middle class kids have the advantage immediately as their parents get them learning before they start school (i could read at 3) and help them out with school ect.

This leaves the lower class kids at the bottom of the class, and they lose interest in school very quickly (it should be common knowledge that people are not going to keep up an interest if their sh!te at something).

Those that do keep an interest in school are then faced with secondary school. In secondary school (particularly 3rd and 6th year) you're expected to do an inhumane amount of work. If you grow up in an enviroment where everyone is doing this work then it's easier to do it yourself. If you grow up in an enviroment where no-one is doing this work/supporting you with it, then it's a hell of a lot harder.

So that would make me middle class.
Awesome. I'm middle class because I could read when I was three.

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I started my life in lower class areas. Funny, since my parents managed to save up enough money to get the fcuk out of dodge with three kids. I had good parenting and didn't end up like some of the people I knew when I was younger. Their parents weren't interested in going anywhere, it was grand for them.

Later on I worked solely in Council housing in Clondalkin and Ballyfermet. I met loads of nice people, good parents and hard workers. You know the difference between them and the scum?

They looked after their children and they had aspirations to leave the area. the scum didn't. They were lazy, ungrateful and didn't care about anything but the TV and some tins.

Nail on the head there.

See those women dropping their kids to school in something resembling a truck? Most of them don't work. They actually have those vehicles because their husbands have good jobs.
They sit at home most of the day too.
Is that a good impression to give to a child?
One where you can sit on your arse all day and still be comfortable because one person in the house has a good job?

There are lazy people in all walks of life and there are scummy people in all walks of life.
Until most of the general population actually realise that and stop pointing fingers as those less fortunate, we will stay at the current impasse.

Prof.Badass

Terry wrote: »

So that would make me middle class.
Awesome. I'm middle class because I could read when I was three.

It wouldn't automatically make you middle class. There are other obstacles to overcome.
If you consider yourself middle class now but grew up in a working class family, then I'm sure it helped..... a lot.

What with the not being behind at school ect. I'm sure you found school a lot easier than most of your peers, thus making you a lot more likely to succed in formal education.

Also i'm sure it positively affected your intelligence in a big way making you more likely to succeed in life even if you didn't do well in formal education.

Terry

vinylmesh wrote: »

It wouldn't automatically make you middle class. There are other obstacles to overcome.
If you consider yourself middle class now but grew up in a working class family, then I'm sure it helped..... a lot.

What with the not being behind at school ect. I'm sure you found school a lot easier than most of your peers, thus making you a lot more likely to succed in formal education.

I did succeed, until I got bored and became a smart arse. Then I failed.

stovelid

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I started my life in lower class areas. Funny, since my parents managed to save up enough money to get the fcuk out of dodge with three kids. I had good parenting and didn't end up like some of the people I knew when I was younger. Their parents weren't interested in going anywhere, it was grand for them.

I'd agree with most of what you say except that not everybody that works hard
(and does the right thing) "gets the fcuk out of dodge". Some parents are still there (like mine) because they sacrificed a lot to make sure that their kids got a better chance than they did.

I'm also think a lot of people's perception of skangers is not to do with crime, lack of hard work, or an anti-social life. For some, talking or dressing a certain way, or not 'having the wherewithal' to move out, means they are worthy of derision. What is unfair about this is that from my time in Uni (and knowing many of my fellow students years later), I have no doubt that a large number of middle-class kids are as unthinking a product of their environment as your average 'skanger' and would just as easily have turned out as junkies or criminals as they did professionals or academics, if their upbringings were reversed.

Tha Gopher

How many IBTL`s would you get pre lock on a thread entitled "how come people in the travelling community are more likely to be unemployed criminals" (btw the stats back it up if anyone really wants to get pissy about it, as Im sure one or two would)

Cuddlesworth

stovelid wrote: »

I'd agree with most of what you say except that not everybody that works hard
(and does the right thing) "gets the fcuk out of dodge". Some parents are still there (like mine) because they sacrificed a lot to make sure that their kids got a better chance than they did.

Fair enough. I did say the difference was the aspiration to leave, not the actual leaving. I see it as the awareness that there is something inheritantly wrong with the people around them(scumbags) and that usually passes on the the kids.

phenomenon

Already I can see this turning into the classic nature Vs nurture debate, with some people blaming genes as the reason why kids grow up to be skangers and others blaming the parents :rolleyes:

News just in: its a combo of both. A kid can come from the biggest knacker estate in the country and have junkies as parents and siblings in jail, but this may only make him more determined to break the senseless cycle of poverty and get a college education and a good job.

Likewise a rich kid may look at his parents' wealth and take comfort in the fact that its all waiting for him when he gets older, and so he won't give two shats about school. You've all heard stories of those kids who go to the institute at the expense of their parents for a few grand and waste the year selling drugs or whatever.

I have a lot more respect for the working class kid in uni. He had to overcome many more obstacles then the middle class kid, who was always expected to go and given every aid along the way, be it grinds classes, private tutuors etc.

As for genetics - you may not say it out loud for fear of being labelled a nazi but of course they play a part. There is a saturation of idiot genes among the lower classes. A "genius sperm bank" was even set up in the 80's on this assumption but was shut down in the 90's because it was un-PC (most of the donors accepeted were white). If you want to read more on this here is a starting point

stovelid

phenomenon wrote: »

A "genius sperm bank" was even set up in the 80's on this assumption but was shut down in the 90's because it was un-PC (most of the donors accepeted were white). If you want to read more on this here is a starting point

I see that some of the kids from the sperm bank ended up being 'mediocre' academically.

One can only imagine the loving and supportive parental response that their school report cards must have invoked at home.

Nehaxak

Definitions of a scumbag/skanger...

Anyone with a "mullet" hairstyle (coincidentally, mostly kids from well off backgrounds)

Anyone who hangs around Dr Quirkys, Bray Amusements or other such skanger hangouts (again, an awful lot of kids from well off backgrounds)

Any white person wearing baggy jeans, long t-shirt, listening to loud hardcore rap music and speaking like a black gangster from the "ghetto"...Oh no wait, that's America. Hold on a minute...

book smarts

deleriumtremens wrote: »

I'm sure you will agree that people from lower class backgrounds will generally only tend to marry other people from lower class backgrounds..(because people from higher socio-economic classes are obviously going to try to get the best "deal" they can get and, put frankly, that isnt going to be somebody content to live off benefits and drink their heads off and be abusive).

As a result of this, bad genes will be mixing with bad genes. In this case, by bad genes I mean "genes that code for a nervous system with underdeveloped frontal lobes (which predisposes somebody towards commiting crime as the frontal lobes are responsible for forethought) and/or other brain feature commensurate with being antisocial"
People underestimate the contribution genetics makes to the personality of person and, in my opinion, the main reason scumbags are the way they are in because of the saturation of bad genes amongst the lower classes.
In fairness, if you ever watch jeremy kyle you will remark at how ever one of the people "looks like a scumbag" in terms of facial features (and i'm not talking about things like clothes or earings, thats a trend thing)

Pseudo-scientific nonsense. Eugenics is alive and well!.:rolleyes:

BraziliaNZ

when people say they are rebelling against society and feel like they're not part of it because they're not as educated etc that's rubbish. They think THEY are normal and that people who don't dress like them or have the same haircuts as them or express any individuality are total freaks and deserve a good kicking for looking a bit different or not talking like them etc. It's just that they are really narrow minded and don't want to know anything outside of their own little worlds.

Darragh29

A worthwhile exercise for anyone here on a day off in Dublin is to go down behind the Four Courts and go into the District Courts beside the Bridewell. Take an hour to look at the absolute scum that you'll see walking in laughing and grinning at everyone else in the room, the judge, the solicitors, everyone.

You'll leave the room under absolutely no illusions as to why these people are not worth investing time or resources in. Also, listen to every single solicitor (that your taxes are paying the Free Legal Aid for), get up and become an unbridled apologist for these absolute scumbags, as they get up on their feet as brazen as a prostitute and try to explain away all these events, like stealing cars, wrecking people's homes and lives, beating up innocent people, basically running amok, because according to the solicitor, there is no social worker available or the kids Dad ran off years ago or whatever useless excuse he can dream up. You'll see these skobies laughing as all this is going on!

The laugh is on you folks, 'cos you're paying for every penny of this charade!

Capt'n Midnight

the word bástard is negative. in the past you could take it to refer to the male child of a one parent family with no male role-model. even to day lack of such a role model is not a good thing

anyone can have a kid, but you need a license for a dog

is having kids a right or does it imply a duty of care that the parent must provide ?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Wagon wrote: »

The vast majority of skangers are retarded. The parents are only about 16 themselves, how the feck do you expect them to act like adults?

Generalisation... doesn't matter what age people have kids, age of the parents will not have an major influence on the behaviour of the child, maturity will.

easyontheeye wrote: »

its the parents that make a difference regardless of your class...

Bad-a-bing bad-a-boom... That is one of the influencing factors. Parents.

ShagNastii wrote: »

Sorry to be blunt but this post has merit. Every scummer I've met is a thick as sh1t

Another generalisation. The amount of upper class people I have met that were as thick as ditch water. Studied in trinity and DCU. Your class doesn't determine your IQ. Born to a lower class may hinder your education, that is very true but because you are a scumbag doesn't mean you are thick.

I knew a heroin addict, that guy had more brains than anyone I even knew, he was going for his second degree, computer science. He had an unfortunate life which he just could not handle. Still a scumbag in my eyes though.

meganj wrote: »

It's the entire system. At the end of the day is a fifteen year old skanger starts bothering you and winding you up, if you take a swing at them, your going down for it.

What gives you the right to take a swing at him? He annoyed you? Well you get what you deserve then, don't you? If he hit you then defend yourself... Don't think you are entitled to hit a scumbag if they annoy you.

They think they're absolutely invincible, I mean I only turned 21 recently and I look at the kids hanging around my family home and I just think god your all such skangers, but i'm not a skanger and would never dream of acting the way they do. I mean obviously I drank underage, and did lots of other things that aren't exactly legal but I never attatcked anyone/egged their houses

You were partially a scumbag then? Right, in the eyes of others you were a scumbag too. So was I. I had the peak cap, the runners, the adiddas tracky (Laugh and DIE ) drank underage in fields, robbed orchards. We never attacked anyone either. We didn't egg houses or any of that crap either, but I bet we were intimidating to others. I would never have considered myself a scumbag back then.

Oh and I came from a hole of an estate, drugs everywhere, buses and taxis didn't come to our estate etc etc. We were brought up well, very well I might add, got our education and went on to third level where I got a BA. I think this disproves anybodies argument that "born in a lower class makes you a scumbag".

There were a good few of us that had respect for people and their posessions, we got a good education.

as I saw recently asked a granny to show her.... well... her lady pieces.

Kids will be kids :P

It's the system not the parents!!!

Oh? So regardless of your upbringing it's the "system". People use that term too frequently and loosely. Explain what you mean there, will ya?

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

the word bástard is negative. in the past you could take it to refer to the male child of a one parent family with no male role-model. even to day lack of such a role model is not a good thing

anyone can have a kid, but you need a license for a dog

is having kids a right or does it imply a duty of care that the parent must provide ?

We do have social services, if we licence children then you are going way way too far. Bearing children is a right of anybodies, with it there is a duty of care.



I will say this, scumbags get influences from more than one source. Their families may have a big impact on this, especially their parents and their upbringing. Schools are also a big factor. Influence from your peirs and friends is important. Your area and the people that live around you may also influence your scumbagery.

Notice how I say influence... not automatically makes you a scumbag.

deleriumtremens

Darragh29 wrote: »

A worthwhile exercise for anyone here on a day off in Dublin is to go down behind the Four Courts and go into the District Courts beside the Bridewell. Take an hour to look at the absolute scum that you'll see walking in laughing and grinning at everyone else in the room, the judge, the solicitors, everyone.

You'll leave the room under absolutely no illusions as to why these people are not worth investing time or resources in. Also, listen to every single solicitor (that your taxes are paying the Free Legal Aid for), get up and become an unbridled apologist for these absolute scumbags, as they get up on their feet as brazen as a prostitute and try to explain away all these events, like stealing cars, wrecking people's homes and lives, beating up innocent people, basically running amok, because according to the solicitor, there is no social worker available or the kids Dad ran off years ago or whatever useless excuse he can dream up. You'll see these skobies laughing as all this is going on!

The laugh is on you folks, 'cos you're paying for every penny of this charade!

Exactly. The reality is they are inherently malicious. Their brains are responsible for the actions their bodies do and its obvious their brains are of a different sort then ours. You think they give a fcuk about whether or not we hold them responsible for the way they turned out in life? PC or not Pc, they'l knife you if you even look at them. Inherently malicious.