Walkin it like you talk it ....

PaulBrewer

There are lots of fruity opinions on boards, some of them well balanced and researched and some not.

But ultimately music production doesn't happen here but in the studios.

Do any of us here actually make music anyone cares about? And when I say cares I mean outside of the bands/artists immediate circle.

An obvious (but not the only) way to measure that is sales.


Do any of us make recordings that sell ???

Are we just a bunch of Tin Roofers on the Net?

seannash

sell or sell well

PaulBrewer

seannash wrote: »

sell or sell well

As I said, outside of a band's immediate circle.

Lets not get into exact numbers but certainly more than a few hundred a band might expect to get rid of once the grannies and aunties are roped in.

DamagedTrax

yup. damaged trax label is quite well respected on the techno scene.. if that actually means anything

progsound

I agree about there being an awfull lot of talk on this board and not much music floating about.

But paul i wouldent get to hung up on sales as an indicater of ones ability to do a good mix. I mean there are a lot of productions about that sell well and are popular but imo have had a terrible mix/master done to them. Metalica most recent release is a good example of course ones opionion of what is a good mix is subjective which has to be taken into account. Same goes for the other side of the fence too, lots of really well produced records that would not be popular or sell well.

Would it be possible to set up a sub fourm here for a "rate my mix" section where people can post mixes they are working on & people can offer advise and opinions? A couple of other fourms i hang out on have this and its pretty good.

Neurojazz

I've sold, charted well *in the past*, which means nothing to me - i still wake up and work like a dog to get the next paycheque

I think the taste of sucess gave me more drive to sort things a lot more - like the label/distro thing, that was my personal demon for about 4 years. I hope i can learn some new cool stuff in this area and earn something from it at the same time.

I care for my music, but might sound like crap to others - I just half listen to my inner critic these days and get on with it

PaulBrewer

progsound wrote: »

I

But paul i wouldent get to hung up on sales as an indicater of ones ability to do a good mix.

That's not what I said .....

"Do any of us here actually make music anyone cares about?"

That's the question - if people buy it it is an indicator that they 'care' enough to want and own it.

ZV Yoda

progsound wrote: »

...
Would it be possible to set up a sub fourm here for a "rate my mix" section where people can post mixes they are working on & people can offer advise and opinions? A couple of other fourms i hang out on have this and its pretty good...

That's a great idea progsound... especially for home studio virgins like me (speaking personally, I know very little about any of the technical stuff... and 95% of the little I do know I picked up from the folks on this very forum )

It would be great to get independent views of a mix (I'm sure we all have lots of opinions on music being good bad or indifferent... but from what I've picked up, there are some general guidelines when it comes to the technicalities of music mixing/production - and that's what I'd be really interested in)

progsound

PaulBrewer wrote: »

That's not what I said .....

"Do any of us here actually make music anyone cares about?"

That's the question - if people buy it it is an indicator that they 'care' enough to want and own it.

It is certainly an indicator and as far as i know of the only quantifiable indicator of peoples interest in a certain music production. What i was getting at was (which was a little far removed from your original question granted ) even if people dont buy your music it doesent mean it isent great or very well produced. Marketing plays a big part in sales as im sure you already know. Take for example a band you knew was a real donkey like pure muck but put a realy great marketting campaign behind them and i bet they sell more than hard working bands putting out good quality stuff but with a poor marketting campaign.

Anyways i know thats not what you were asking but thought id rant about it anyways

Neurojazz

I think a site called gearslutz has a nice forum for getting your mixes torun to peices by professionals (with good advice and linkage to tutorials), i know boards is awesome, but the population density of elite engineers is far greater there

jtsuited

yup i sell records.

Quite a few of my last one (probably because a few superstar DJ's were supporting it).

When I started out with this, I knew nobody in dance music, and my friends still don't like dance music. So that benevolent circle of friends and relatives (that most bands have) doesn't exist for me.

PaulBrewer

Neurojazz wrote: »

I but the population density of elite engineers is far greater there

Or so they think!

frobisher

I don't like the question. I think I get the point but I don't think that not selling music equates to being a tin roofer on the net.

The words "music" and "business" put together form something that is very different to the words "music" and "creating" put together. The former quantifies success through sales and/or acclaim. The latter should have a different barometer that is personal and individual to each person. Although I reckon that many music makers don't see the difference. As far as I'm concerned making music is one of the greatest things a human can do with their time alive. Sales or not. Although I do think that the two combined are what makes the best music.

But in direct response to the question. Do I have fans outside my friends? Absolutely. Have I sold anything? I don't have anything to sell so that answers that. But I will soon and ye all will be the first to know about.;)

I think the real question is how do pro-audio dealers who spend all their time on the net manage to sell anything :pac::pac::pac::pac:

jtsuited

frobisher wrote: »

I think the real question is how do pro-audio dealers who spend all their time on the net manage to sell anything :pac::pac::pac::pac:

hahaha, classic.

yeah how does your boss feel about you using work time for internets messing?

PaulBrewer

frobisher wrote: »

But in direct response to the question. Do I have fans outside my friends? Absolutely. Have I sold anything? I don't have anything to sell so that answers that. But I will soon and ye all will be the first to know about.;)

I think the real question is how do pro-audio dealers who spend all their time on the net manage to sell anything :pac::pac::pac::pac:

Ah Frobizzle, is the tongue in the cheek not obvious? There's no need to be like that

I see what you're saying about the personal angle and agree, but my core question is entirely music based.

Do the guys here make music that (some) people love i.e. their only direct link is the music.

I agree also sales are an imperfect measurement tool but nevertheless if you sell 5000 , 5000 people are keen enough to own your shizit which in itself is a measurement.

To your last question , not too much at the moment!

jtsuited

i'm gonna agree with the sales thing. nobody cares about your music until they're buying it. or playing it (in the case of radio dj's etc.)

edit: but I also agree with frobisher's points about making music being one of the best ways to spend your life, regardless of whether anyone else gives a feck about it.

jtsuited

progsound wrote: »

I agree about there being an awfull lot of talk on this board and not much music floating about.

if y'all set up soundcloud accounts I'll give you private access to all my new stuff (and my lord there's a lot of it).

I can't really go putting it up on the interwebs nilly willy as most of it is signed and scheduled for release.

dav nagle

Personally speaking it's not what you sell but what you achieve. I make a few euros a month off my concept electronic album but then again I don't promote it. One sale in America or Germany makes me excited and makes me feel important. If one cow will graze the rest will too it's really just down to good PR at the end of the day. Electronic music is not the road that I live for like many other super talented musicians and DJ's who do. I can say I have an album on iTunes + based on the concept of the hidden agenda of NASA. That to me is as a complete product selling online in various different online shops. I checked today and a couple of songs sold in the US, big deal just 2 songs but it's songs I wrote, mixed and got mastered off my own back without any PR. Some people like myself don't want to be doing the band thing anymore, I have played in 3 bands, each for 3 years and although I loved it back then now I don't.

So answer your question at least 2 people care so far as they bought the songs, so whether it's 2 or your pushing for 2,000 who cares if you are making music and getting it out there one way or another.

PaulBrewer

dav nagle wrote: »

If one cow will graze the rest will too

You're selling to COWS? ...

frobisher

dav nagle wrote: »

If one cow will graze the rest will too

That's my favourite Dav'ism so far :pac:

PaulBrewer

frobisher wrote: »

That's my favourite Dav'ism so far :pac:

It's only Thursday, mind ...

seannash

jtsuited wrote: »

if y'all set up soundcloud accounts I'll give you private access to all my new stuff (and my lord there's a lot of it).

I can't really go putting it up on the interwebs nilly willy as most of it is signed and scheduled for release.

god someone else sign up so i dont have to archive it all

PaulBrewer

Anyone care to drop numbers?

jtsuited

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Anyone care to drop numbers?

My one main release so far sold a good few hundred in the first week. I won't know until December 31st how it's done since then.

I tend to only licence my new stuff to labels I know will sell at least 500. I'm in a completely different world though (dance music as opposed to rock/pop/indie etc.)

seannash

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Anyone care to drop numbers?

well i made 30 dollars from my first ep ha ha:o

DamagedTrax

Anyone care to drop numbers?

usually enough to pay the artists a few quid and get the next release sorted. no profit, thats for sure.

helps with getting gigs though and that brings money in.

Neurojazz

I'm still getting 400e (inital sales excluding income from publishing or licenses) a month for a track from about 10 years ago - initially it sold shedloads - i think it even made it into guiness book of hit singles

iTunes is greatest point of sale at the moment.

PR costs from about 40e to 500e dependant on areas/type - i think people should spend a little bit on PR to at least let them know you exists - without advertizing nothing happens, and even though making music is a good thing personally - you'll STARVE if your'e not careful and make at least some money ;P

dav nagle

Neurojazz wrote: »

I'm still getting 400e (inital sales excluding income from publishing or licenses) a month for a track from about 10 years ago - initially it sold shedloads - i think it even made it into guiness book of hit singles

iTunes is greatest point of sale at the moment.

PR costs from about 40e to 500e dependant on areas/type - i think people should spend a little bit on PR to at least let them know you exists - without advertizing nothing happens, and even though making music is a good thing personally - you'll STARVE if your'e not careful and make at least some money ;P

Could you go through some means of promoting an album using a small amount of cash between say €150 - €1000, PR wise? What is the best route?

seannash

DamagedTrax wrote: »

helps with getting gigs though and that brings money in.

i think thats where most producer make there money these days,its almost essential that you can dj if you make dance music so as to capitlaise on stuff like that.
plus its fun and nice to get paid for that

Neurojazz

For some obvious reasons, i can't give contacts out like that , my advice would be to get a manager - they delegate out the various jobs that need doing like PR etc... for the artists.

I do admin pretty much fulltime now and remixes - hardly anytime for writing, but this gets better as the workload gets outsourced.

You can try and hunt via google to find companies that do these services, but rarely cheap - some quotes i've been given very massively.

For artists that i'd sign i'd be paying about 40e for the basic press releases (to radio stations and magazines) - my investment in them pays off later as i'd be taking 10% of their net profit.

As an artist, some of this you can do yourself, but eats time and requires full focused buniess head (well that's me f**cked then

As a general rule, i tend to misread all the posts on the web - i have bad eyes and can hardly read - even misread this op.

dav nagle

Neurojazz wrote: »

For some obvious reasons, i can't give contacts out like that , my advice would be to get a manager - they delegate out the various jobs that need doing like PR etc... for the artists.

I do admin pretty much fulltime now and remixes - hardly anytime for writing, but this gets better as the workload gets outsourced.

You can try and hunt via google to find companies that do these services, but rarely cheap - some quotes i've been given very massively.

For artists that i'd sign i'd be paying about 40e for the basic press releases (to radio stations and magazines) - my investment in them pays off later as i'd be taking 10% of their net profit.

As an artist, some of this you can do yourself, but eats time and requires full focused buniess head (well that's me f**cked then

As a general rule, i tend to misread all the posts on the web - i have bad eyes and can hardly read - even misread this op.

You have a very knowledgeable head about you :rolleyes:

seannash

Neurojazz wrote: »

For some obvious reasons, i can't give contacts out like that , my advice would be to get a manager - they delegate out the various jobs that need doing like PR etc... for the artists.

I do admin pretty much fulltime now and remixes - hardly anytime for writing, but this gets better as the workload gets outsourced.

You can try and hunt via google to find companies that do these services, but rarely cheap - some quotes i've been given very massively.

For artists that i'd sign i'd be paying about 40e for the basic press releases (to radio stations and magazines) - my investment in them pays off later as i'd be taking 10% of their net profit.

As an artist, some of this you can do yourself, but eats time and requires full focused buniess head (well that's me f**cked then

As a general rule, i tend to misread all the posts on the web - i have bad eyes and can hardly read - even misread this op.

now im not really questioning this method more so how does it apply to the guys who are making tracks in there bedrooms and still getting them signed.
in dance music is it really necessary to have a manager(bar for gigs i guess)but everything else like pr is that not handled by the label you sign your tracks with,they promote the track and send out the promos etc.
anyone i know whos doing dance music is doing it this way bar people who are established already,so for the regular producer who releases tracks is it a bit ott?

DamagedTrax

seannash wrote: »

now im not really questioning this method more so how does it apply to the guys who are making tracks in there bedrooms and still getting them signed.
in dance music is it really necessary to have a manager(bar for gigs i guess)but everything else like pr is that not handled by the label you sign your tracks with,they promote the track and send out the promos etc.
anyone i know whos doing dance music is doing it this way bar people who are established already,so for the regular producer who releases tracks is it a bit ott?

it all depends on the scene. techno scene for instance has none of the management lark going on (unless you're talking commercial artists - hawtin, leibing etc)

its a very very underground scene and hugely proud of it to boot. generally anyone trying to break in with management behind them will be pretty much shunned (unless they are bringing something amazing to the table).

if you are good you will sell to the hardcore fans (cause they're the only ones buying these days :mad:) and get gigs. its as simple as that really.

other scenes would be totally differant but as a general rule, the more commercial the music the more a management team makes sense.

seannash

DamagedTrax wrote: »

it all depends on the scene. techno scene for instance has none of the management lark going on (unless you're talking commercial artists - hawtin, leibing etc)

its a very very underground scene and hugely proud of it to boot. generally anyone trying to break in with management behind them will be pretty much shunned (unless they are bringing something amazing to the table).

if you are good you will sell to the hardcore fans (cause they're the only ones buying these days :mad:) and get gigs. its as simple as that really.

other scenes would be totally differant but as a general rule, the more commercial the music the more a management team makes sense.

no idefinitely agree,i dont think its confined to the techno scene though,bar some commercial remix projects most forms of dance music would be taking that approach i imagine.but i know neurojazz is involved in dance music so i was just kinda thrown by his approach.im not saying its wrong its just an approach that doesnt seem all that common in dance music to be honest.it could work though.
to me its seemed a bit ott b ut maybe he was talking about a band type situation

jimi_t

seannash wrote: »

i think thats where most producer make there money these days,its almost essential that you can appear to dj if you make dance music so as to capitlaise on stuff like that.
plus its fun and nice to get paid for that

Fixed that

DamagedTrax

seannash wrote: »

no idefinitely agree,i dont think its confined to the techno scene though,bar some commercial remix projects most forms of dance music would be taking that approach i imagine.but i know neurojazz is involved in dance music so i was just kinda thrown by his approach.im not saying its wrong its just an approach that doesnt seem all that common in dance music to be honest.it could work though.
to me its seemed a bit ott b ut maybe he was talking about a band type situation

im not too aware of what type of dance music neurojazz does. but if his stuff is getting played in the likes of tripod its probably the more commercial end of things so his approach may suit that scene.

Neurojazz

I'm just giving an overview - but here's an angle i rarely hear talked about on boards.

That situation of a 'bedroom producer' - sure they could get tracks out via a label and never need a manager... but i'd take them and turn them into a live PA and use the both the DJ plays out and them doing gigs to get publicity... back that up with a press campaign and your cooking.

I'm pretty much a 'bedroom producer', i create at home and try to get music out there - it's just years down the line i've stumbled upon different ways of doing things. PR and some form of focus (which bedroom producers may not have) really do catapult things off the ground...

Every musician is unique - so all the manager can do is evaluate each situation for what to do and how to grow things - (i've no intention of doing a half arsed job), and if a musician is looking for a manager then they are usually ready to commit to the busy life ahead.

Another angle i might do is listen to a songwriter and get their music to a publisher for use by another artist - they may never have to gig ever... so many scenarios - depends on the music/capital available

DamagedTrax

Neurojazz wrote: »

I'm just giving an overview - but here's an angle i rarely hear talked about on boards.

That situation of a 'bedroom producer' - sure they could get tracks out via a label and never need a manager... but i'd take them and turn them into a live PA and use the both the DJ plays out and them doing gigs to get publicity... back that up with a press campaign and your cooking.

I'm pretty much a 'bedroom producer', i create at home and try to get music out there - it's just years down the line i've stumbled upon different ways of doing things. PR and some form of focus (which bedroom producers may not have) really do catapult things off the ground...

Every musician is unique - so all the manager can do is evaluate each situation for what to do and how to grow things - (i've no intention of doing a half arsed job), and if a musician is looking for a manager then they are usually ready to commit to the busy life ahead.

Another angle i might do is listen to a songwriter and get their music to a publisher for use by another artist - they may never have to gig ever... so many scenarios - depends on the music/capital available

i think its a differant approach in the dance scene and if its working for you (or artists that you represent) then good on you. anything to help new talent can only be a good thing.

seannash

DamagedTrax wrote: »

im not too aware of what type of dance music neurojazz does. but if his stuff is getting played in the likes of tripod its probably the more commercial end of things so his approach may suit that scene.

well I know jtsuited is playing tripod these days and he's making some real nice techno/minimal.he's signed to a few nice labels,aciitone being one and they run alot of nights.
I think think techno isn't that underground anymore,its pretty much dominating the beatport charts these days.
even if your making electrohouse(commercial) I dont think a manager is necessary.again I've very little experience but from my small experience and from talking to people it seems its not necessary

DamagedTrax

seannash wrote: »

I think think techno isn't that underground anymore,its pretty much dominating the beatport charts these days.

i think you need to diiferentiate between techno and what beatport has tagged as techno. most of which is just tech-house and minimal. certainly not minimal techno. theres a world of differance between plink plonk mnml and real minimal (robert hood etc)

Neurojazz

seannash wrote: »

I dont think a manager is necessary.again I've very little experience but from my small experience and from talking to people it seems its not necessary

The amount of horror stories i hear from artists... having someone to make sure your rights are looked after and that you get paid your dues is essential - unless you know the business and the pitfalls your'e walking into the lions den.

jtsuited

seannash wrote: »

well I know jtsuited is playing tripod these days and he's making some real nice techno/minimal.he's signed to a few nice labels,aciitone being one and they run alot of nights.

yeah but in saying all that, I do have a certain few business acquaintances who are both big fans of me and fairly big hitters in the business side of things.


As far as the real business goes ie the actual music, I go through the same contacts that all the producers go through. I send people my stuff. And when they like it, I send them more. And they tell their other friends in the 'business'.

I'm completely at a loss as to what neurojazz's business actually is though. If he was in my line of business, he would be a superflous middleman.

seannash

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i think you need to diiferentiate between techno and what beatport has tagged as techno. most of which is just tech-house and minimal. certainly not minimal techno. theres a world of differance between plink plonk mnml and real minimal (robert hood etc)

no I agree its a big melting pot and the term has been used for alot of different types of music but even so its brought techno into the forefront.
.more people are into it now more than ever because of this.there is still some forms of it that doesn't appeal to the beatport crowd(I used to play stuff on drumcode,henrik b and early smith and selway stuff on tronic)and that has always been my opinion of techno,buys its definitely changed and incorporated more elements to it.I'm no expert on it but its definitely got more appeal than it has ever had IMO

Neurojazz

jtsuited wrote: »

I'm completely at a loss as to what neurojazz's business actually is though. If he was in my line of business, he would be a superflous middleman.

That's a personal opinion though - if you were an artist that didn't know arse from elbow in the business but wrote heartfelt music then you'd need to be armed to the teeth or get ripped. You've forgotten where you've come from basically.

jtsuited

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i think you need to diiferentiate between techno and what beatport has tagged as techno. most of which is just tech-house and minimal. certainly not minimal techno. theres a world of differance between plink plonk mnml and real minimal (robert hood etc)

ah come on. robert hood is massive. techno is massive. yes he does a far more conventional genre of 'techno'. but that doesn't mean that what 'beatport labels as techno' isn't techno.

The lines have blurred between minimal, tech house, and techno a lot over the past few years. Having a purist mentality about genres is one sure way not to have much fun.

there is the more commercial techno (a la Cocoon, Toolroom, Renaissance etc.) but then there is some huge names doing very very dark 'purer' techno (Some of the stuff on Sci+Tec, some of Shlomi Aber's stuff, etc.).

jtsuited

Neurojazz wrote: »

That's a personal opinion though - if you were an artist that didn't know arse from elbow in the business but wrote heartfelt music then you'd need to be armed to the teeth or get ripped. You've forgotten where you've come from basically.

what? I've forgottone where I've come from?

No I was saying if you were in my line of work (techno/minimal/prog), there would be no need for you.
Even thinking of my rock music days I can't see what you do.

I send off tracks to labels i like. they send me license agreement contracts that i sign (if i agree to the terms).

How would you not be a middleman in that scenario?

seannash

Neurojazz wrote: »

The amount of horror stories i hear from artists... having someone to make sure your rights are looked after and that you get paid your dues is essential - unless you know the business and the pitfalls your'e walking into the lions den.

no ive heard the horror stories but those were all before th digital age really.
these days contracts are sent to the artist and breakdown who gets what.then you get a breakdown of sales every six months and thats it really.you register with ascap for radio royalties and **** but apart from that is there much else we need t worry about if were not breaking into the charts.
there could be so im kinda asking

DamagedTrax

jtsuited wrote: »

ah come on. robert hood is massive. techno is massive. yes he does a far more conventional genre of 'techno'. but that doesn't mean that what 'beatport labels as techno' isn't techno.

The lines have blurred between minimal, tech house, and techno a lot over the past few years. Having a purist mentality about genres is one sure way not to have much fun.

there is the more commercial techno (a la Cocoon, Toolroom, Renaissance etc.) but then there is some huge names doing very very dark 'purer' techno (Some of the stuff on Sci+Tec, some of Shlomi Aber's stuff, etc.).

yup techno is huge right now isnt it. theres distros going under by the minute and the biggest labels are selling less than the smaller ones were 5 years ago. intec, who were at one stage selling 20,000 units went bust 2 years ago.

as far as pigeon holing goes i have no problem with cross pollunation of genres but it isnt techno. house is house plain and simple. if it was techno it would be techno. beatport cater to the masses and anyone in that position has the ability to lump stuff in whatever genre they want to and the public will swallow it.

dont get me wrong, i love some minimal (ive remixed format b and i think they're very very talented guys), ive loved house for a long time, dj sneak to me is a magician. but lets get things straight. there is minimal techno out there but its not 99% of the tech-house that beatport say it is.

and i have plenty of fun making cross genre stuff myself, i dont limit myself at all BUT im under no illusions as to what it is.

calling some of that stuff techno is like calling take that indie. sure they use guitars now and again and im pretty sure if mtv stuck them in an indie chart the public would buy it but it doesnt make it true.

a lot of that "techno" is commercially viable safe music for mass consumption. techno is machine music that looks to the future. not regurgetated crap using the same wood block sample and grm tools delay.

just my opinion mind you. its a very subjective arguement and comes from nearly 15 years of being heavily involved with the scene.

Neurojazz

Missing point there really.

How many people do you know that have sent tracks off and had problems with the label... across all genres there are problems - you've obviosuly landed on your feet and know about all the agencies or just born with perfect knowledge of how the industry works - there are believe it or not jtsuited, that there are people who don't know, or don't have the time too know.

Labels can be arse, some don't commit fully to releases, some sign music and then shelve it, some contracts don't have cure periods on the signed tracks, some get you to waive rights you shouldn't - then how does the artist find a good publisher for the broadcast collections? - how would they know where too look?

That's just tip of the iceberg.

I lost a lot of money because i didn't have protection or anyone to fight for my rights - got burned for about 100k euros minimum - it does happen, i god hope it doesn't. Another side note... if your making money from your sales, what other revenue streams are there? - new people might not know this and labels are just middlemen of another sort (oh, did i just say that), they serve as a portal to the distributors and other agencies that you let them liase with.

And don't forget YOUR'E the middleman from your soul to the listener :P

Oh, and forgot - as a manager i can also cut out that label in the equation and do everything they do essentially and get accounts direct to the artist...

seannash

DamagedTrax wrote: »

yup techno is huge right now isnt it. theres distros going under by the minute and the biggest labels are selling less than the smaller ones were 5 years ago. intec, who were at one stage selling 20,000 units went bust 2 years ago.

as far as pigeon holing goes i have no problem with cross pollunation of genres but it isnt techno. house is house plain and simple. if it was techno it would be techno. beatport cater to the masses and anyone in that position has the ability to lump stuff in whatever genre they want to and the public will swallow it.

dont get me wrong, i love some minimal (ive remixed format b and i think they're very very talented guys), ive loved house for a long time, dj sneak to me is a magician. but lets get things straight. there is minimal techno out there but its not 99% of the tech-house that beatport say it is.

and i have plenty of fun making cross genre stuff myself, i dont limit myself at all BUT im under no illusions as to what it is.

calling some of that stuff techno is like calling take that indie. sure they use guitars now and again and im pretty sure if mtv stuck them in an indie chart the public would buy it but it doesnt make it true.

a lot of that "techno" is commercially viable safe music for mass consumption. techno is machine music that looks to the future. not regurgetated crap using the same wood block sample and grm tools delay.

just my opinion mind you. its a very subjective arguement and comes from nearly 15 years of being heavily involved with the scene.

distros are going under coz theres nothing to distribute.were in the age of digital downloads,noone is using vinyl(okay some are).i know they do more than that but thats a big part of it

Neurojazz

seannash wrote: »

distros are going under coz theres nothing to distribute.were in the age of digital downloads,noone is using vinyl(okay some are)

I think Intergroove are still going if you need physical releases.