Walkin it like you talk it ....

PaulBrewer · 11-12-2008 12:59am #1

There are lots of fruity opinions on boards, some of them well balanced and researched and some not.

But ultimately music production doesn't happen here but in the studios.

Do any of us here actually make music anyone cares about? And when I say cares I mean outside of the bands/artists immediate circle.

An obvious (but not the only) way to measure that is sales.

Do any of us make recordings that sell ???

Are we just a bunch of Tin Roofers on the Net?

seannash · 11-12-2008 1:04am

sell or sell well

PaulBrewer · 11-12-2008 1:22am

seannash wrote: »

sell or sell well

As I said, outside of a band's immediate circle.

Lets not get into exact numbers but certainly more than a few hundred a band might expect to get rid of once the grannies and aunties are roped in.

DamagedTrax · 11-12-2008 6:48am

yup. damaged trax label is quite well respected on the techno scene.. if that actually means anything

progsound · 11-12-2008 9:45am

I agree about there being an awfull lot of talk on this board and not much music floating about.

But paul i wouldent get to hung up on sales as an indicater of ones ability to do a good mix. I mean there are a lot of productions about that sell well and are popular but imo have had a terrible mix/master done to them. Metalica most recent release is a good example of course ones opionion of what is a good mix is subjective which has to be taken into account. Same goes for the other side of the fence too, lots of really well produced records that would not be popular or sell well.

Would it be possible to set up a sub fourm here for a "rate my mix" section where people can post mixes they are working on & people can offer advise and opinions? A couple of other fourms i hang out on have this and its pretty good.

Neurojazz · 11-12-2008 10:10am

I've sold, charted well *in the past*, which means nothing to me - i still wake up and work like a dog to get the next paycheque

I think the taste of sucess gave me more drive to sort things a lot more - like the label/distro thing, that was my personal demon for about 4 years. I hope i can learn some new cool stuff in this area and earn something from it at the same time.

I care for my music, but might sound like crap to others - I just half listen to my inner critic these days and get on with it

PaulBrewer · 11-12-2008 10:37am

progsound wrote: »

I

But paul i wouldent get to hung up on sales as an indicater of ones ability to do a good mix.

That's not what I said .....

"Do any of us here actually make music anyone cares about?"

That's the question - if people buy it it is an indicator that they 'care' enough to want and own it.

ZV Yoda · 11-12-2008 10:58am

progsound wrote: »

...
Would it be possible to set up a sub fourm here for a "rate my mix" section where people can post mixes they are working on & people can offer advise and opinions? A couple of other fourms i hang out on have this and its pretty good...

That's a great idea progsound... especially for home studio virgins like me (speaking personally, I know very little about any of the technical stuff... and 95% of the little I do know I picked up from the folks on this very forum )

It would be great to get independent views of a mix (I'm sure we all have lots of opinions on music being good bad or indifferent... but from what I've picked up, there are some general guidelines when it comes to the technicalities of music mixing/production - and that's what I'd be really interested in)

progsound · 11-12-2008 11:15am

PaulBrewer wrote: »

That's not what I said .....

"Do any of us here actually make music anyone cares about?"

That's the question - if people buy it it is an indicator that they 'care' enough to want and own it.

It is certainly an indicator and as far as i know of the only quantifiable indicator of peoples interest in a certain music production. What i was getting at was (which was a little far removed from your original question granted

) even if people dont buy your music it doesent mean it isent great or very well produced. Marketing plays a big part in sales as im sure you already know. Take for example a band you knew was a real donkey like pure muck but put a realy great marketting campaign behind them and i bet they sell more than hard working bands putting out good quality stuff but with a poor marketting campaign.

Anyways i know thats not what you were asking but thought id rant about it anyways

Neurojazz · 11-12-2008 11:35am

I think a site called gearslutz has a nice forum for getting your mixes torun to peices by professionals (with good advice and linkage to tutorials), i know boards is awesome, but the population density of elite engineers is far greater there

jtsuited · 11-12-2008 11:43am

yup i sell records.

Quite a few of my last one (probably because a few superstar DJ's were supporting it).

When I started out with this, I knew nobody in dance music, and my friends still don't like dance music. So that benevolent circle of friends and relatives (that most bands have) doesn't exist for me.

PaulBrewer · 11-12-2008 12:06pm

Neurojazz wrote: »

I but the population density of elite engineers is far greater there

Or so they think!

frobisher · 11-12-2008 1:41pm

I don't like the question. I think I get the point but I don't think that not selling music equates to being a tin roofer on the net.

The words "music" and "business" put together form something that is very different to the words "music" and "creating" put together. The former quantifies success through sales and/or acclaim. The latter should have a different barometer that is personal and individual to each person. Although I reckon that many music makers don't see the difference. As far as I'm concerned making music is one of the greatest things a human can do with their time alive. Sales or not. Although I do think that the two combined are what makes the best music.

But in direct response to the question. Do I have fans outside my friends? Absolutely. Have I sold anything? I don't have anything to sell so that answers that. But I will soon and ye all will be the first to know about.;)

I think the real question is how do pro-audio dealers who spend all their time on the net manage to sell anything :pac::pac::pac::pac:

jtsuited · 11-12-2008 1:43pm

frobisher wrote: »

I think the real question is how do pro-audio dealers who spend all their time on the net manage to sell anything :pac::pac::pac::pac:

hahaha, classic.

yeah how does your boss feel about you using work time for internets messing?

PaulBrewer · 11-12-2008 1:51pm

frobisher wrote: »

But in direct response to the question. Do I have fans outside my friends? Absolutely. Have I sold anything? I don't have anything to sell so that answers that. But I will soon and ye all will be the first to know about.;)

I think the real question is how do pro-audio dealers who spend all their time on the net manage to sell anything :pac::pac::pac::pac:

Ah Frobizzle, is the tongue in the cheek not obvious? There's no need to be like that

I see what you're saying about the personal angle and agree, but my core question is entirely music based.

Do the guys here make music that (some) people love i.e. their only direct link is the music.

I agree also sales are an imperfect measurement tool but nevertheless if you sell 5000 , 5000 people are keen enough to own your shizit which in itself is a measurement.

To your last question , not too much at the moment!

jtsuited · 11-12-2008 1:54pm

i'm gonna agree with the sales thing. nobody cares about your music until they're buying it. or playing it (in the case of radio dj's etc.)

edit: but I also agree with frobisher's points about making music being one of the best ways to spend your life, regardless of whether anyone else gives a feck about it.

jtsuited · 11-12-2008 1:58pm

progsound wrote: »

I agree about there being an awfull lot of talk on this board and not much music floating about.

if y'all set up soundcloud accounts I'll give you private access to all my new stuff (and my lord there's a lot of it).

I can't really go putting it up on the interwebs nilly willy as most of it is signed and scheduled for release.

dav nagle · 11-12-2008 2:15pm

Personally speaking it's not what you sell but what you achieve. I make a few euros a month off my concept electronic album but then again I don't promote it. One sale in America or Germany makes me excited and makes me feel important. If one cow will graze the rest will too it's really just down to good PR at the end of the day. Electronic music is not the road that I live for like many other super talented musicians and DJ's who do. I can say I have an album on iTunes + based on the concept of the hidden agenda of NASA. That to me is as a complete product selling online in various different online shops. I checked today and a couple of songs sold in the US, big deal just 2 songs but it's songs I wrote, mixed and got mastered off my own back without any PR. Some people like myself don't want to be doing the band thing anymore, I have played in 3 bands, each for 3 years and although I loved it back then now I don't.

So answer your question at least 2 people care so far as they bought the songs, so whether it's 2 or your pushing for 2,000 who cares if you are making music and getting it out there one way or another.

PaulBrewer · 11-12-2008 2:18pm

dav nagle wrote: »

If one cow will graze the rest will too

You're selling to COWS? ...

frobisher · 11-12-2008 2:34pm

dav nagle wrote: »

If one cow will graze the rest will too

That's my favourite Dav'ism so far :pac:

PaulBrewer · 11-12-2008 2:42pm

frobisher wrote: »

That's my favourite Dav'ism so far :pac:

It's only Thursday, mind ...

seannash · 11-12-2008 2:53pm

jtsuited wrote: »

if y'all set up soundcloud accounts I'll give you private access to all my new stuff (and my lord there's a lot of it).

I can't really go putting it up on the interwebs nilly willy as most of it is signed and scheduled for release.

god someone else sign up so i dont have to archive it all

PaulBrewer · 11-12-2008 2:59pm

Anyone care to drop numbers?

jtsuited · 11-12-2008 3:17pm

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Anyone care to drop numbers?

My one main release so far sold a good few hundred in the first week. I won't know until December 31st how it's done since then.

I tend to only licence my new stuff to labels I know will sell at least 500. I'm in a completely different world though (dance music as opposed to rock/pop/indie etc.)

seannash · 11-12-2008 3:18pm

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Anyone care to drop numbers?

well i made 30 dollars from my first ep ha ha:o

DamagedTrax · 11-12-2008 3:29pm

Anyone care to drop numbers?

usually enough to pay the artists a few quid and get the next release sorted. no profit, thats for sure.

helps with getting gigs though and that brings money in.

Neurojazz · 11-12-2008 3:36pm

I'm still getting 400e (inital sales excluding income from publishing or licenses) a month for a track from about 10 years ago - initially it sold shedloads - i think it even made it into guiness book of hit singles

iTunes is greatest point of sale at the moment.

PR costs from about 40e to 500e dependant on areas/type - i think people should spend a little bit on PR to at least let them know you exists - without advertizing nothing happens, and even though making music is a good thing personally - you'll STARVE if your'e not careful and make at least some money ;P

dav nagle · 11-12-2008 3:39pm

Neurojazz wrote: »

I'm still getting 400e (inital sales excluding income from publishing or licenses) a month for a track from about 10 years ago - initially it sold shedloads - i think it even made it into guiness book of hit singles

iTunes is greatest point of sale at the moment.

PR costs from about 40e to 500e dependant on areas/type - i think people should spend a little bit on PR to at least let them know you exists - without advertizing nothing happens, and even though making music is a good thing personally - you'll STARVE if your'e not careful and make at least some money ;P

Could you go through some means of promoting an album using a small amount of cash between say €150 - €1000, PR wise? What is the best route?

seannash · 11-12-2008 3:43pm

DamagedTrax wrote: »

helps with getting gigs though and that brings money in.

i think thats where most producer make there money these days,its almost essential that you can dj if you make dance music so as to capitlaise on stuff like that.
plus its fun and nice to get paid for that

Neurojazz · 11-12-2008 3:49pm

For some obvious reasons, i can't give contacts out like that

, my advice would be to get a manager - they delegate out the various jobs that need doing like PR etc... for the artists.

I do admin pretty much fulltime now and remixes - hardly anytime for writing, but this gets better as the workload gets outsourced.

You can try and hunt via google to find companies that do these services, but rarely cheap - some quotes i've been given very massively.

For artists that i'd sign i'd be paying about 40e for the basic press releases (to radio stations and magazines) - my investment in them pays off later as i'd be taking 10% of their net profit.

As an artist, some of this you can do yourself, but eats time and requires full focused buniess head (well that's me f**cked then

As a general rule, i tend to misread all the posts on the web

- i have bad eyes and can hardly read - even misread this op.

dav nagle · 11-12-2008 3:54pm

Neurojazz wrote: »

For some obvious reasons, i can't give contacts out like that , my advice would be to get a manager - they delegate out the various jobs that need doing like PR etc... for the artists.

I do admin pretty much fulltime now and remixes - hardly anytime for writing, but this gets better as the workload gets outsourced.

You can try and hunt via google to find companies that do these services, but rarely cheap - some quotes i've been given very massively.

For artists that i'd sign i'd be paying about 40e for the basic press releases (to radio stations and magazines) - my investment in them pays off later as i'd be taking 10% of their net profit.

As an artist, some of this you can do yourself, but eats time and requires full focused buniess head (well that's me f**cked then

As a general rule, i tend to misread all the posts on the web - i have bad eyes and can hardly read - even misread this op.

You have a very knowledgeable head about you :rolleyes:

Walkin it like you talk it ....

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