Buying clubs in the North

anonymous08

Has anyone any recent experience of buying golf clubs in the North & are there much savings to be made with sterling being weaker?

kingshankly

anonymous08 wrote: »

Has anyone any recent experience of buying golf clubs in the North & are there much savings to be made with sterling being weaker?

try a few golf websites from the uk I would reccomend onlinegolf they provide a good service with great postage prices

Swinging Looney

The savings you can make are just ridiculous. I recently bought two Wilson Staff woods (FY & 3W) from onlinegolf and it cost me 160 euro including shipping. One club here was selling for about 130 euro at the time. Arrived on my doorstep 4 days later. Their stock changes pretty rapidly so if you can't find what you're looking for then leave it a week and look again.

Generally speaking we get terrible value here in Ireland.I'm looking for a couple of Vokeys at the moment. They sell for around 130-140 euro each here. I can get them up North or aver the sea for 68 Sterling. Works out at 80 euro at the current exchange rate.

Recently read an article about McGuirks in which they stated "We are the cheapest golf shop in Europe". Unfortunately that is very, very far from true....

Mister Sifter

Swinging Looney wrote: »

The savings you can make are just ridiculous. I recently bought two Wilson Staff woods (FY & 3W) from onlinegolf and it cost me 160 euro including shipping. One club here was selling for about 130 euro at the time. Arrived on my doorstep 4 days later. Their stock changes pretty rapidly so if you can't find what you're looking for then leave it a week and look again.

Generally speaking we get terrible value here in Ireland.I'm looking for a couple of Vokeys at the moment. They sell for around 130-140 euro each here. I can get them up North or aver the sea for 68 Sterling. Works out at 80 euro at the current exchange rate.

Recently read an article about McGuirks in which they stated "We are the cheapest golf shop in Europe". Unfortunately that is very, very far from true....

Check out Direct Golf also Looney, they often do a 2 vokeys for 130 pounds deal. Your absolutely right, the mark up shops here have is obviously huge.

McGuirks may be cheap compared to other Irish shops, but the savings to be had online are massive.

ImDave

Graeme1982 wrote: »

Your absolutely right, the mark up shops here have is obviously huge.

I sincerely wish that was the case.

Mister Sifter

ImDave wrote: »

I sincerely wish that was the case.

So Direct Golf can afford to charge just 65 pounds for a Vokey wedge, but a shop here needs to charge 130 euro? Even with bulk buying discounts i find that very hard to stomach.

In fact, scrap that about using an online UK site as an example. My local pro shop back home in Scotland charges 69 pounds for a Vokey. And he'd hardly be buying bucket loads of the things.

fullstop

Graeme1982 wrote: »

So Direct Golf can afford to charge just 65 pounds for a Vokey wedge, but a shop here needs to charge 130 euro? Even with bulk buying discounts i find that very hard to stomach.

In fact, scrap that about using an online UK site as an example. My local pro shop back home in Scotland charges 69 pounds for a Vokey. And he'd hardly be buying bucket loads of the things.

Hard as it may be to stomach, it's true.

Swinging Looney

ImDave wrote: »

I sincerely wish that was the case.

I'm a cynic at heart and always have been, but I really would like to believe that what you are hinting at was true.

Yet:

Let's just say golf shops have a 10% margin on their stock. The percentage is pretty irrelevant but it'll make my point for me.

UK crowd sell a Vokey wedge for the equivalent of 80 euro . Less the 10% means they are getting the club for about 72 euro.

Irish crowd selling it for 139 euro (McGuirks price). Less the 10% makes 126 euro. I really just cannot believe that it could cost an Irish store 54 euro more to get their hands on the same stock. So the only possible explanation is that the Irish Stores are running a massively greater margin than UK stores.

Fair enough, I haven't allowed for the VAT difference which will add another 8 or 9 euro maybe, and I accept that overheads may be greater in Ireland than elsewhere, but they would need to be in the region of 65% greater to explain the difference. That I just can't believe.

There is a general attitude within retailers in this country that drives them to increase profits (or minimise losses as the case may be) simply by increasing prices rather than by trying increasing the number of units sold. So few seem to realise that 10 clubs sold at 120 euro is better than 3 sold at 200 euro.

C.O.Y.B.I.B

I'm looking for a CallawayX 3 Wood. It's 159e in McGuirks and 99stg in JJB Lisburn . I have 125e vouchers for McGuirks but it's killing me to buy it from them.....It'll cost me 34e out of my pocket to buy it here , but if my vouchers were for JJB they'd be giving me change !!!
Sorry rant over .

Online golf are very good and reasonable shipping charge , also nevadabobs in belfast and jjb in Lisburn are both good value compared to here if you want Bricks and Mortar

ImDave

Swinging Looney wrote: »

I'm a cynic at heart and always have been, but I really would like to believe that what you are hinting at was true.

Yet:

Let's just say golf shops have a 10% margin on their stock. The percentage is pretty irrelevant but it'll make my point for me.

UK crowd sell a Vokey wedge for the equivalent of 80 euro . Less the 10% means they are getting the club for about 72 euro.

Irish crowd selling it for 139 euro (McGuirks price). Less the 10% makes 126 euro. I really just cannot believe that it could cost an Irish store 54 euro more to get their hands on the same stock. So the only possible explanation is that the Irish Stores are running a massively greater margin than UK stores.

Fair enough, I haven't allowed for the VAT difference which will add another 8 or 9 euro maybe, and I accept that overheads may be greater in Ireland than elsewhere, but they would need to be in the region of 65% greater to explain the difference. That I just can't believe.

There is a general attitude within retailers in this country that drives them to increase profits (or minimise losses as the case may be) simply by increasing prices rather than by trying increasing the number of units sold. So few seem to realise that 10 clubs sold at 120 euro is better than 3 sold at 200 euro.

I wish I could explain why a shop in the North could sell a current model (we will assume it is a Vokey Spin Milled Wedge, standard spec.) for well under the cost price. I'm not sure if cost price varies significantly between Ireland and the UK, but I know for a fact that Ping, TaylorMade and Mizuno all charge identical prices in the UK and NI as they do in Ireland. I can say that there is honestly nowhere near €54 to be made on a wedge such as that.

If the cost price is the same up North as it is here, they are selling as a loss, and that is a fact. If it was another manufacturer e.g. Cobra (despite they are both part of the Acushnet group of companies) I might believe it, as many companies offer good discount and rebate during the year as well as line discounts. Titleist offer no discount of any type on their hardware, just accessories. Another example is the Ping G10 driver. If people were to hear how much mark-up was available on a G10 at the going retail price of €279 or so, they would never believe it.

I wish I could offer a proper explanation as to the retail differences between the UK and Ireland, but I really don't know how they were doing it. If our store was to match all UK prices, we would be out of business within a matter of months, as we would be in a complete negative cash flow situation.

copacetic

ImDave wrote: »

I, but I know for a fact that Ping, TaylorMade and Mizuno all charge identical prices in the UK and NI as they do in Ireland. I can say that there is honestly nowhere near €54 to be made on a wedge such as that.

I don't believe this is true at all, if it was they would be adjusting their prices constantly for exchange rates, which they don't.

eg TaylorMade r7 CGB MAX Driver
299rrp in uK according to americangolf (65 off at the moment so 234)


379rrp in Mcguirks

299GBP is currently €340 so rrps are currently €40 different.

Same club on onlinegolf.co.uk for 195GBP = €222

Basically at current exchange rates rrps are MUCH more here than UK and also
the UK shops discount a lot more also. Hard for shops here to compete.

In the past on newer stuff I've found McGuirks to be as cheap as online, have got
my last 2 drivers and irons there. However the exchange rate has changed that
now..

Mister Sifter

ImDave wrote: »

I wish I could offer a proper explanation as to the retail differences between the UK and Ireland, but I really don't know how they were doing it. If our store was to match all UK prices, we would be out of business within a matter of months, as we would be in a complete negative cash flow situation.

That's very interesting. I know it has been mentioned on here before that shops make their profits from clothing and accessories, and not really from clubs. I've seen McGuirks' accounts and i know they make a tidy profit so they're obviously making it from somewhere.

It's a baffling situation - even more so when someone within the industry can't explain it. Is it a case then that Irish golf retailers are being ripped off when it comes to buying stock?

It's crazy that a multi-million euro golf chain in Ireland has to charge 139 euro for a club which a very small pro shop in the arse end of Scotland only charges 80 euro.

Something, somewhere has to be wrong!

Goodluck2me

fullstop wrote: »

Hard as it may be to stomach, it's true.

Got my vokey in LK, in boyces, seller knocked €25 off pricetag with little-no haggle, obviously huge mark up.

Swinging Looney

I wish I could explain why a shop in the North could sell a current model (we will assume it is a Vokey Spin Milled Wedge, standard spec.) for well under the cost price.

Firstly, if McGuirks and others are genuinely making a small amount over and above the cost price of a club - and up North and across the UK, various different retailers are selling at a loss, then why in Gods name wouldn't McGuirks or any other Irish retailer also be buying cheap clubs in the UK and selling them to us at a slightly inflated price instead of the ridiculously high prices you'll see in any store here?

Secondly, I can not believe (doesn't mean it's not true of course) that such a large number of stores are selling vast amounts of the same clubs at a significant loss. The discussion above would suggest that onlinegolf and others are losing perhaps 30 or 40 euro on the sale of a Vokey wedge. I say absolutely not. How could any store sustain that kind of loss? As for the little pro shop in Scotland - not a chance.

Thirdly, if they really are selling at a loss and managing to survive just fine regardless - I assume by attracting ancilliary sales after customers were lured in by the cheap club - then why would Irish stores not cop on and realise that they could be doing the same thing?? Why don't Mcguirks sell Vokeys at even just 99 euro and hope to talk the customer into buying a Driver, Trolley, Pro-V1's, a wooly hat and some tees while they're there? It goes back to what I said earlier; Irish stores have tunnel vision when it comes to sales. And I have no sympathy for them as a result.

My own opinion is that Irish Retailers in general have simply become greedy over the past decade or two and have a mental block against selling anything at discounted or heaven forbid below cost price. They have become used to large margins and don't want to let them go. Years and years (and years!) ago, my father worked in a clothing store in the US. The margin they used at the time was one single percent. They used clever selling tactics and promotions to make their money over a period of time. Today retailers want it all in one sale. Look at groceries which stores are/were not able to sell below cost by law. Then you see them with a 75% off meat or whatever sale. So even with 75% off it still can not be below cost. It's sickening I tells ya! :mad:

Swinging Looney

Oh, also jut want to dispel the myth that it is simply the exchange rate that causes the difference.

While the current exchange rate has never been better from our point of view, even allowing for the rate as it was say 3 years ago; about .67 £/Euro; there is still about a 40 euro difference in the price of Vokeys and other similar clubs...

fullstop

goodluck2me wrote: »

Got my vokey in LK, in boyces, seller knocked €25 off pricetag with little-no haggle, obviously huge mark up.

Retail price of the vokey's is around €95 if i remember correctly so there is not a big mark up as they usually sell for around €120-130

And you should be buying it somewhere else!

Mister Sifter

fullstop wrote: »

Retail price of the vokey's is around €95 if i remember correctly so there is not a big mark up as they usually sell for around €120-130

So you're telling us that a golf shop in Ireland is charged 95 euro (or thereabouts) for every vokey wedge it buys from Titleist? McGuirks today is selling same wedge for 139 euro. Thats a 46% premium!

At your RRP, a UK shop would be buying it at say 80 pounds (i'm being generous with the exchange rate here, bearing in mind what's happened in recent weeks/months). So, the shop that i quote above is selling the wedge at a 13% reduction to the RRP!

It doesn't stack up!

fullstop

Graeme1982 wrote: »

So you're telling us that a golf shop in Ireland is charged 95 euro (or thereabouts) for every vokey wedge it buys from Titleist? McGuirks today is selling same wedge for 139 euro. Thats a 46% premium!

At your RRP, a UK shop would be buying it at say 80 pounds (i'm being generous with the exchange rate here, bearing in mind what's happened in recent weeks/months). So, the shop that i quote above is selling the wedge at a 13% reduction to the RRP!

It doesn't stack up!

It's between €95-100 anyway i'm pretty sure. Retail most places is 130. That is a 30% mark up. How the hell do you expect golf shops to survive otherwise? A member of my family owns a golf shop and McGuirks have regularly sold Pro V1's for less than the wholesale price from Titleist. the smaller shops just can't compete with that

slumped

Can I offer some insight?

Retailers will expect to mark up clubs by around 15-20%, the real money for golf retailers is in clothing which is generally 30-40% mark up while golf balls are poor returns, around 5-10%

A Vokey Wedge has a RRP in Ireland of €139.

The cost price (including VAT) to retailers is around €95.

The mark up is not as big as we think.

A new driver, take any of the leading models - will retail at €400.

The cost price on this is around €320 - which when marked up is around 20%


The MAJOR problems are:

1. Sterling has weakened considerably, from 0.69 pence to 0.88 pence
2. At the same time, there has been a 3% VAT swing in favour of STG.
3. Interest rates in UK are lower than here, and will remain so as the UK economy sinks further into recession (part of Euro zone is not in recession....yet!)
4. Manufacturers are not passing on the changes in STG to Euro Customers

Shop around - if you find a bargain then go for it. McGuirks, I believe, don't get the HUGE discounts some people think they get - they make their big money on clothing.

S

neckedit

as I have said in previous posts/threads i've worked in the golf retail business all my working life, and I take it that some of the posters here also work in the trade,and i never understand the problem people have with any shop making a profit! it is a very tight business, margin wise, to try to make a living and with the recent surge in internet selling it getting tougher. I'm a consumer and i shop alot, but never in my wildest dreams would i haggle over the price.lets say I see a pair off jeans i like, I try them on and they look good, the price tag says €100, thats what i pay, if i can't afford them i simply put them back on the hanger and come back on pay day and pick them up, I don't go hame and moan about the retailer making 50% margin on the jeans, and I wouldn't embarras myself asking for discount, The high street store all you guys buy your every day clothes make margins that would make a golf retailer dizzy at the thoughts! The store I work at sells the vokey wedge for €100 and we make a profit on that (thats the whole idea of running a business), my store has staff, insurance, rent, electricity, rates, shipping costs, the last 4 overly inflated in this country in comparison to our UK and on-line counterparts. If we were to sell at the prices people think they should pay we'd be out of business in the morning.:cool:

fullstop

slumped wrote: »

Can I offer some insight?

Retailers will expect to mark up clubs by around 15-20%, the real money for golf retailers is in clothing which is generally 30-40% mark up while golf balls are poor returns, around 5-10%

A Vokey Wedge has a RRP in Ireland of €139.

The cost price (including VAT) to retailers is around €95.

The mark up is not as big as we think.

A new driver, take any of the leading models - will retail at €400.

The cost price on this is around €320 - which when marked up is around 20%


The MAJOR problems are:

1. Sterling has weakened considerably, from 0.69 pence to 0.88 pence
2. At the same time, there has been a 3% VAT swing in favour of STG.
3. Interest rates in UK are lower than here, and will remain so as the UK economy sinks further into recession (part of Euro zone is not in recession....yet!)
4. Manufacturers are not passing on the changes in STG to Euro Customers

Shop around - if you find a bargain then go for it. McGuirks, I believe, don't get the HUGE discounts some people think they get - they make their big money on clothing.

S

You can indeed You've pretty much backed up what i said re the vokey wedges which i used as an example and you are 100% correct on all other points.

Good post

Swinging Looney

The mark-up that a retailer adds to any item of stock must allow for operating costs and overheads. After these costs have been covered, the remainder becomes his profit margin. I wish retailers here would look at their margins on certain items and think like a consumer for once.

neckedit wrote: »

The store I work at sells the vokey wedge for €100 and we make a profit on that (thats the whole idea of running a business)

You see this is kind of what I'm talking about I suppose. First of all I accept that I am simply taking your quote out of context and I don't intend this to be a challenge to you directly. But:

Running a business is about making a profit overall, not on every single item you sell in the shop. Why is the concept of loss leaders apparently lost on Irish stores? Sell popular things at cost or close to it or even below cost so that you get people in your store which is carefully designed to entice them to buy something else. It is entirely unnecessary to make a profit on every single thing. Understanding consumer psychology is the most important thing in business. Look at Ryanair for God's sake! They make little or nothing on actual fares. It is all ancillary revenue that makes them ridiculous money every year.

If we were to sell at the prices people think they should pay we'd be out of business in the morning.:cool:

Again I feel this is typical of most Irish businesses. Just the thought of selling something below cost is enough to make them queasy.

neckedit

Loss leaders in the golf trade these days are a certain golf ball! in the past it used to be a brand of driver, but why would you invest €250 plus and use it as a loss leader! the main point everybody here is missing, is Service, when you walk into my store you will get fully trained professional staff who know the golf industry inside out and will endevour to get the right equipment in your hands not just the best margin product! that, you don't get online and you deffinitly don't get it from our compitition.

PhilipMarlowe

There is no way on earth that the state should make more of a 'margin' on a product being sold in a store than the business that goes to the effort of selling that product.
The business pays the rates, the prsi, the taxes, takes all the risk, etc etc etc.
Expecting a retailer to accept a 5% margin across the board or something is so unrealistic... what do you think a 'johnny average' golf shop's turnover is and of this turnover what percentage of it would you be happy living off?

Swinging Looney

Every single Golf Shop I've walked into have stacks and stacks of golf balls at the tills. I can't believe that shops would put loss making products at the tills where most impulsive purchases are made. If you are correct (which I assume you are given that you say you work in the industry) then where do you put most of your golf balls on display?

Given the number of stores in Ireland, using Golf Balls as loss leaders seems crazy. I won't drive miles out of my way to save a few euro on balls. I'll just go to my local shop and buy them there for a couple of quid. You can't entice me to your store by offering me a tiny saving.

Now if I could save 20 euro by travelling to your store down the road instead of my local one around the corner, then keep me there with wonderful service and a feeling that my 50 euro purchase is more important to you than the previous guys 1,000 euro sale then you are getting somewhere. I'll probably go back to you next time too.

Having good service is all well and good but it means absolutely nothing if you can't get me into your shop in the first place.

Ah look, we're (meaning me and my ego ) getting way off topic here. I suppose that Irish business drives me mad, not just Golf shops. The online stores work so well because I think "Sure as long as I'm buying this club and paying for shipping, I might as well see what else they have while I'm here." Next thing you know I've bought a brolly, a putter and a new battery for my trolley and spent twice what I planned to. Why oh why is it so difficult for actual stores built from bricks to think the same way?

Expecting a retailer to accept a 5% margin across the board or something is so unrealistic...

Across the board is not what I'm saying. I mean merely on certain popular items to get people in store. Also, just because your margins are low does not mean your profits are low. 1% of a lot of money is still better than 75% of almost nothing. You have summed up my argument: There are two ways of increasing profits. 1- up your prices 2- sell more stuff. Most shops only ever think of 1.

neckedit

I edited my post and said a certain ball not all balls! We sell from 7euro to 22euro per dozen cheaper(before people jump on this, yes Pro v's are sold for 65euro in some pro shops in the greater dublin area). in my shop you come for the service and you'll be amazed at the price! too many shops sell themselves only on price! We offer you both!

Swinging Looney

neckedit,

Just for what it's worth, I admire a store that puts an emphasis on service. It is becoming ever more rare to find a place that actually wants to be friendly and helpful rather than just say they are.

Royal Seahawk

The Slazanger K1 speed driver is £50 in JJB in Lisburn. How much would that cost down here?

anonymous08

Thanks for your replies on this guys.

ImDave

Swinging Looney wrote: »

Again I feel this is typical of most Irish businesses. Just the thought of selling something below cost is enough to make them queasy.

I would actually agree with you there in the general context.

However, I feel it necessary to highlight the fact that the likes of Vokey wedges at about 45% is an painting an inaccurate picture of the real situation. The markup on Titleist equipment is pretty good for the industry, particurally if you stick close enough to the retail price. If you take the Ping G10, at current market price, you would be making 16%, not nearly as high as people would imagine, and that is before you take the few quid that 4/5 customers insisting on haggling over. Margins are very tight, but margins are tight in almost all industries, particularly in current economic conditions, considering that golf is a luxury, it will suffer along with many others.

Swinging Looney

ImDave wrote: »

I would actually agree with you there in the general context.

However, I feel it necessary to highlight the fact that the likes of Vokey wedges at about 45% is an painting an inaccurate picture of the real situation. The markup on Titleist equipment is pretty good for the industry, particurally if you stick close enough to the retail price. If you take the Ping G10, at current market price, you would be making 16%, not nearly as high as people would imagine, and that is before you take the few quid that 4/5 customers insisting on haggling over. Margins are very tight, but margins are tight in almost all industries, particularly in current economic conditions, considering that golf is a luxury, it will suffer along with many others.

Fair enough. I suppose I am picking Vokeys simply because I have been looking at them in a lot of places recently.

I agree that golf may be in for a rough time in the near future. I am also afraid that it will die off rapidly if retailers choose to push up the prices across the board in an attempt to offset the reducing sales. Although the cost of playing golf will likely be the main factor rather than the cost of equipment. As long as clubs keep bringing green fees and memberships down then golf shops will have a chance if they manage themselves properly. But they may well have to take on the online and UK stores if they are to survive.

kingshankly

It has to and has been said we pay dearer here not just in golf but everything.
There's no man likes a bargain more than me but on the subject of vokeys you won't get one cheaper than £75 including postage which equates to €85-90 depending on markets and if neckit says he can sell you one for a hundred well surely the peace of mind that you can bring it back locally if faulty is worth a tenner . I would totally agree in what neckit says.
Its unfair to compare the Internet and your local shop as like for like

stockdam

I live in Northern Ireland and the point about the exchange rate and VAT is nonsense.........prices in NI were always cheaper even when Sterling was strong and before the VAT cuts.

JJB in Lisburn don't have a big range and if they were making a loss on clubs then I would suggest that the section would be closed down........not many people buy golf stuff in JJB - JJB make most of their money in sports clothes and if the golf section was loosing money then it wouldn't be there.

If you are going to SPrucefield then call in at Lisburn Golf Club which is on the left just before the 2nd roundabout (the first is at Hillsborough, the 2nd is at Sainsburys and the third is at M&S/McD's).

Nevadabob's in Belfast (and Bangor) have a good range and have been around for years. They usually have a sale in January (I think) which has good discounts. Ring them and ask them when the sale is and what they are likely to have. They also do very good prices on drivers when they want to clear out stock.

If you want good personal service then try The Golf Spot (Colm Murphy) in Bangor or Fortwilliam Golf Club (Peter Hannah). Peter has a good range of 2nd hand clubs too.

As I said, even though I'm in Dublin every week, I've never bought down south.....that also goes for food, drink etc........other than petrol (and even that is about the same now).

If anyone wants me to pop into Nevadabobs or JJB etc. then let me know.

Mister Sifter

slumped wrote: »

The MAJOR problems are:

1. Sterling has weakened considerably, from 0.69 pence to 0.88 pence
2. At the same time, there has been a 3% VAT swing in favour of STG.
3. Interest rates in UK are lower than here, and will remain so as the UK economy sinks further into recession (part of Euro zone is not in recession....yet!)
4. Manufacturers are not passing on the changes in STG to Euro Customers
S

Good insight and all that, but the problems you highlight are all relatively recent phenomena. The problem of golf products being more expensive to buy in the republic as opposed to the UK isn't recent. It's been a problem since as long as i've been here - well before the word recession was being mentioned.

Mister Sifter

kingshankly wrote: »

surely the peace of mind that you can bring it back locally if faulty is worth a tenner.

Any shop here that is a Titleist (or any other brand for that matter) dealer will take the faulty club in and send it off for repair, regardless of where you bought it.

Swinging Looney

kingshankly wrote: »

It has to and has been said we pay dearer here not just in golf but everything......on the subject of vokeys you won't get one cheaper than £75 including postage......Its unfair to compare the Internet and your local shop as like for like

As Stockdam says - I was in JJB Sports in Lisburn just two days ago looking at Vokeys. They have a golf section on the sort of balcony at the back of the store. They sell all sorts of golf stuff including clubs, balls, brollys, training aids, etc. Not the biggest selection by any stretch of the imagination but they have good prices.

Vokeys there were £69. There were the same price when I was there 6 weeks ago too so it's not a recent sale price or anything like that. They didn't have the loft I was after in the end though.

Almost every shop anywhere in my area - I live in east Meath - sell Vokeys for 139 euro. A local shop recently had them reduced to 129 euro so I don't think it's just a tenner we're talking about.

ImDave

I guess another issue at play here is competition within Ireland. I know smaller stores, and even large stores like us, use McGuirks prices as the bench mark. There is an attitude within the industry that McGuirks will always be the cheapest, so why try to beat him. This is something which over the last few years we have avoided, as McGuirks prices are often fair from competitive, but there is no one for him to compete with as such. The concept of bulk buying doesn't really apply to golf in the general context (it does to a small degree), however the likes of McGuirks can operate an economies of scale type model, making less on more. To do this you need to be of substantial size, and it has become possible for us to do this in recent years. We are actually cheaper than McGuirks for about 20-30 leading products of the top of my head.

As Swinging Looney said, the Irish golf industry will have to start taking on the UK market. This will happen, however it will take time for retailers to realize that it is necessary to keep business happening. McGuirk is the most capable chain to start this, and it is most likely that they will be the instigator in this transition. I still can't say that it would be possible for us to match the prices of some equipment in the UK (e.g. Ping G10 driver and Vokey wedges being good examples), but we could come close enough to bridge the gap between price difference and the hassle of sourcing it elsewhere.

Swinging Looney

ImDave wrote: »

I know smaller stores, and even large stores like us, use McGuirks prices as the bench mark. There is an attitude within the industry that McGuirks will always be the cheapest, so why try to beat him.

No disrespect meant at all but that is absolutely ridiculous. Surely you set the price of your stock according to your acquisition costs plus overheads and then decide what profit you want to make or what deal you want to offer your customers? You can not be serious that you look at McGuirks and just pick their prices and stick them on your stuff? If you do this then you really are ripping off the consumer because you are saying "If you are happy paying XXXX euro to McGuirks, you won't have a problem paying me the same amount."

(I note you say you have avoided this for the past few years so take the above as a general statement.)

McGuirks prices are often far from competitive, but there is no one for him to compete with as such

Why not? There's you for a start? Look at Halpennys website as a reason why no one is taking McGuirks on. You can go online and select a club for delivery. Sounds good so far. But for the majority of stock you can not select the option you want. I can pick a driver I like, but I can't tell them which loft I want or whether it is right or left handed before it get's added to my basket. I can tell them I want a Vokey wedge for a right hander but I can't tell them which loft or bounce I want. Ridiculous! And utterly useless as a method of sale.

Also if it's not in stock there is a little red note at the bottom of the shopping basket telling you that you can order it anyway and wait for it to come in. How many people miss that note and then get upset afterwards? Where is the customer service in that? It seems they just want to sell the item rather than worry about happy customers.

I wouldn't mind only Halpennys are actually very friendly and very good to deal with. But the website would put you off going into their shops.

ImDave

Swinging Looney wrote: »

No disrespect meant at all but that is absolutely ridiculous. Surely you set the price of your stock according to your acquisition costs plus overheads and then decide what profit you want to make or what deal you want to offer your customers? You can not be serious that you look at McGuirks and just pick their prices and stick them on your stuff? If you do this then you really are ripping off the consumer because you are saying "If you are happy paying XXXX euro to McGuirks, you won't have a problem paying me the same amount."

I have to absolutely disagree with you here. McGuirks is used as a benchmark as they are in the most dominant market position. The most simple rule of microeconomics, price is dictated by supply and demand. Are you telling me that car dealerships for example don't engage in price analysis of their nearest competitor to gauge pricing? It is the same in so many other lines of business. I have a friend who is assistant manager in a leading music/dvd chain store, and they are constantly watching prices in competitors, and combining what they see prices doing there with what figures they are doing themselves and implement price adjustments from there.

However the primary reason for mentioning McGuirks is the fact that they are the most publicised and well known retailer in the land. When you have (and I would say about 60-70% of) customers coming in saying "Well McGuirk is selling it for €xx", simply because they saw it in the newspaper, you are left with little choice but to use them as the benchmark. As I stated, we no longer do, but the majority of small retailers do, and that is a fact. I know this through a couple of different methods. Firstly, company reps for the leading manufacturers come in-store a couple of times per year and advice on what the going market price is for their main product lines. And they almost always reference McGuirks, simply for the reason I outlined earlier in this post. Another reason I know this happens, is we wholesale to about 5/6 smaller golf stores around the country, and they are constantly discussing what price is being charged in the large chains.

I never said that we charge the same as what McGuirks charge, although I am sure that some do. We simply use McGuirks as an instrument to gauge pricing and market conditions as they are the most suitable example given their turnover in comparison to smaller stores.

If golf shops followed your principle, the market would be fair less competitive as it is now (and that's not saying a whole lot).

Swinging Looney

Lookit, of course shops look at other stores prices, that is not what I meant. You seemed to imply that stores look at McGuirks and take that as the lowest feasible selling price. So if they could actually manage to sell something for less, they will keep the McGuirks price anyway. If that is not what you meant then take no offence but I wager that is what happens in a lot of places. It is based on an age old Irish tradition of limited choice. We are a small country and have limited options as a result.

Car dealerships are a special case because the industry is protected by VRT, upcoming new NCT rules for imports, etc, which makes it less attractive to buy cheaper cars abroad. Other sections of various industries are feeling the force of the new era of shopping because they stick to the age old Irish way of doing business. Internet shopping gives immediate access to cheaper goods from elsewhere. Irish stores are inexplicably reluctant to go head to head with these. Offer discounts, sell some things at a loss, use high quality marketing, have state of the art websites, the list goes on, but it's the unerring lethargy of Ireland that drives me mad.

I find it impossible to accept excuses from those in the business about why their arms are tied and they can't do anything about prices. How can you when almost no retailer in this country has stepped up to the plate and said "Screw this, I'm getting more people in that door and I'll do whatever I have to to do it."

ImDave, you say you sell 20 or 30 things cheaper than McGuirks, but how come I don't know who you are? How come I don't know what things you're talking about? Where's your advertising? How come your website doesn't come up when I search "cheap golf Ireland"? (Assuming it doesn't of course!) Oh my God, there is so much that Irish stores could do, but as long as they settle for "average" numbers of customers and as long as they are content with making some money but not as much as they could with a bit of effort, then places like the UK and websites will always be cheaper than here.

McGuirks say they are the cheapest golf shop in Europe. They're not. So the best they could come up with was a lie. We'll have to do better than I think.

stockdam

Firstly I would like to say that people should buy locally - they probably would like to but if they can get something for 25% cheaper elsewhere then they probably will buy there.

All the prices in N.I. are not cheaper than the ROI. Nevadabob's are a big chain and they can buy in bulk. They can also sell off old stock very cheaply. Directgolf in the UK is similar.

However if I went to a small shop in NI then the prices would be much more expensive. The small pro shops can't compete and have stopped selling clubs.

It is difficult for the smaller chains to compete head to head with the big shops with their buying power.

Lastly.....Ireland is supposedly the fourth most expensive country in the world.........why?????

kingshankly

Graeme1982 wrote: »

Any shop here that is a Titleist (or any other brand for that matter) dealer will take the faulty club in and send it off for repair, regardless of where you bought it.

im comparing internet purchases where you have to pay for postage again to return the club

kingshankly

Swinging Looney wrote: »

As Stockdam says - I was in JJB Sports in Lisburn just two days ago looking at Vokeys. They have a golf section on the sort of balcony at the back of the store. They sell all sorts of golf stuff including clubs, balls, brollys, training aids, etc. Not the biggest selection by any stretch of the imagination but they have good prices.

Vokeys there were £69. There were the same price when I was there 6 weeks ago too so it's not a recent sale price or anything like that. They didn't have the loft I was after in the end though.

Almost every shop anywhere in my area - I live in east Meath - sell Vokeys for 139 euro. A local shop recently had them reduced to 129 euro so I don't think it's just a tenner we're talking about.

did neckit not say he sells them for€100

DonkeyPokerTour

Can anyone tell me if its worth my while to get Ping G10's in the north. I live in Co. Wicklow so it would be a fair trek but if its a good saving it may be worth it. How much do they retail for Up North?

Regards
Ian

stockdam

DonkeyPokerTour wrote: »

Can anyone tell me if its worth my while to get Ping G10's in the north. I live in Co. Wicklow so it would be a fair trek but if its a good saving it may be worth it. How much do they retail for Up North?

Regards
Ian

Ring Nevadabob's in Belfast and let us know their price.

Sandwich

Swinging Looney wrote: »

No disrespect meant at all but that is absolutely ridiculous. Surely you set the price of your stock according to your acquisition costs plus overheads and then decide what profit you want to make or what deal you want to offer your customers?

Am with ImDave on this one SwingingLooney. The flaw in your thinking is the 'decide what profit you want to make' bit. You want to make as much as possible! So if you think you can achieve that by matching a high profile player in the market, who has a big influence on people's perception of market price, and has a reputation for competitiveness (justified or not), then that is what you will do. Until the market as a whole starts to loose significant market share to foreign markets then it is maximising its profits and so doing the right thing.
While we all hear of good deals in Nevada Bobs or look the prices in the online sellers, what proportion of your bag was bought outside 26 counties? Accross Ireland not a lot Ill bet. Until we start to see Mcguirk or other golf shops shutting down due to being overwhelmed by cheaper imports you wont see prices fall.
The occasional buyer from GolfDirect, Ebay, or day tripper to Belfast wont really do that.

(BTW for all you folks stocking up on grog in Newry this Christmas, there is a serious golf store in the retail estate on the Warrenpoint Rd. Forget the name but good stock.)

ImDave

Swinging Looney wrote: »

Offer discounts, sell some things at a loss, use high quality marketing, have state of the art websites, the list goes on, but it's the unerring lethargy of Ireland that drives me mad.

Agreed. I've worked part-time (but as good as full-time) in golf for the last 8 years, and only finished recently as I am coming up to my final year of my degree. I have to say that as someone studying business and working in the industry for years I have noticed this and have pushed for marketing program's but to no avail.

Swinging Looney wrote: »

ImDave, you say you sell 20 or 30 things cheaper than McGuirks, but how come I don't know who you are? How come I don't know what things you're talking about? Where's your advertising? How come your website doesn't come up when I search "cheap golf Ireland"? (Assuming it doesn't of course!)

I'd like to be able to tell you, but I am not, particurally as I have given away considerably detailed information about the running of the business, and have no right to do so. I will say that we are not in Dublin, or indeed any of the major cities. You won't find us by searching for cheap golf Ireland or whatever, as we make a strict point of not going after that market. Despite the fact that we beat McGuirks on prices where possible, and most often is, we are a customer service orientated business, and custom fitting is what we are interested in, as our most of our customers, not "cheap golf".

I also have to say that, as a golfer/custom fitter rather than the salesperson you will buy clubs off in McGuirks, JJB etc. that at the end of the day, if you as a customer are happy with the price, and you get outstanding customer service, i.e. leaving the shop with no doubt that you have bought the correct club, I would say that represents good value any day.

Swinging Looney

Sandwich wrote: »

Until the market as a whole starts to loose significant market share to foreign markets then it is maximising its profits and so doing the right thing.
While we all hear of good deals in Nevada Bobs or look the prices in the online sellers, what proportion of your bag was bought outside 26 counties? Accross Ireland not a lot Ill bet. Until we start to see Mcguirk or other golf shops shutting down due to being overwhelmed by cheaper imports you wont see prices fall.
The occasional buyer from GolfDirect, Ebay, or day tripper to Belfast wont really do that.

Fair point. And your right, all but three clubs in my bag (possibly to become 5 shortly) were bought here. Mind you I made a concious decision to go with non brand name custom fit clubs when I bought my irons and driver because I hate the extra price to be paid for a Titleist or Ping logo on a club. No more than with clothes or anything else of course.

You point about market share is well made. I suppose maybe there isn't as much incentive out there as I thought for anything to change dramatically at the moment. Sigh . Been getting carried away I suppose on some issues with Irish business in general which may not be completely applicable to the Golf industry. God knows of all the industries in this country, golf is the one I would like to see survive the downturn.

Swinging Looney

ImDave wrote: »

...at the end of the day, if you as a customer are happy with the price, and you get outstanding customer service, i.e. leaving the shop with no doubt that you have bought the correct club, I would say that represents good value any day.

Can't argue with that Dave! You may well have summed up the whole thread in one go with that quote!!

neckedit

Graeme1982 wrote: »

Any shop here that is a Titleist (or any other brand for that matter) dealer will take the faulty club in and send it off for repair, regardless of where you bought it.

Because of Internet selling, Retailers are now generally asking the where the item was bought, and asking for Valid reciepts, this is the main problem with net purchasing, you have no direct contact should a problem arise, yet you expect the retailer to take care of you when it wasn't bought of him and he has no contract of sale at all with you, :cool:

stockdam

ImDave wrote: »

You won't find us by searching for cheap golf Ireland or whatever, as we make a strict point of not going after that market. Despite the fact that we beat McGuirks on prices where possible, and most often is, we are a customer service orientated business, and custom fitting is what we are interested in, as our most of our customers, not "cheap golf".

And that is a very good answer as you are therefore not trying to compete against the volume discount shops who are there to sell at competitive prices.

You are offering custom fitting which is a different market completely. You are trying to add value through advice and experience. You offer a more personal service and quite rightly are not trying to compete on price alone.

That's a lesson for a lot of businesses......if you aren't the cheapest then you need to offer something else that people will pay for.