Over 1,200 licensed guns stolen in five years

Rew

ART6 wrote: »

I haven't read all of the posts in this thread but a casual visit to the shooting forum recently suggested that 1,200 weapons is about the total licenced guns in civilian hands (as far as I recall - the figures for some incomprehensible reason seem to be unclear). So are we to believe that everyone had their guns stolen in the period of the statistic, or is this another of our government's massaging of the statistics to justify their initiatives? Let's face it, they have been caught at that enough times for it to become an insult to the people's intelligence.

You have it bit messed up. 230,000 is the total number of licened firearms. 1200 in the last 5 years is the number of stolen/lost firearms (thats all stolen/lost firearms not just licenced ones). 27 is the number of stolen/lost handguns in the last 5 years (thats all stolen/lost handguns not just licenced ones). That makes for a 0.1% theft/loss rate per year.

I think if proper storage was required for all firearms that rate would drop way way down.

Rew

Its funny but think the attitude to firearms is the same one that has kept tasers, CS Gas, stab vests, rigid cuffs, extendable battons out of the Gardai's hands for so long. They generate the same "What if" responses from alot of people. It turned my stomach to see the pictures inthe latest Garda Review (I know getting OT).

eroo

Rew wrote: »

Its funny but think the attitude to firearms is the same one that has kept tasers, CS Gas, stab vests, rigid cuffs, extendable battons out of the Gardai's hands for so long. They generate the same "What if" responses from alot of people.

Couldn't disagree more! I'm all for AGS getting TASERs and pepper spray.

Eru

Rew wrote: »

1200 in the last 5 years is the number of stolen/lost firearms (thats all stolen/lost firearms not just licenced ones). 27 is the number of stolen/lost handguns in the last 5 years (thats all stolen/lost handguns not just licenced ones).

How many illegal firearms were reported lost by criminals?

hk

I think he is suggesting that some may have wandered from garda custody, and in fairness there is a point to be examined, the minister stated that 7 or 8 handguns were stolen in 2003, but there were no licienced handguns in the country for sporting purposes at that time. he was asked the other day how many have been stolen, gone missing etc from the gardi, he said he needs more time to get those stats, however the minister for defence was able to account for how many weapons have gone missing from DF custody, all of which have gone missing/stolen on operational duty outside the state, they even know where a rifle lost overboard from a ship is, its just to deep to get back!

Rew

eroo wrote: »

Couldn't disagree more! I'm all for AGS getting TASERs and pepper spray.

I wasn't directing the comment at you more a general comment on Irish attitudes to such things.

Rew

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

How many illegal firearms were reported lost by criminals?

LOL, not many i'd imagine, but the 1200 stat as hk says inclueds alot of things and even guns stolen from museums that no longer work.

Eru

Rew wrote: »

LOL, not many i'd imagine, but the 1200 stat as hk says inclueds alot of things and even guns stolen from museums that no longer work.

Yeah I know, I just thought it was funny.

deadwood

Rew wrote: »

LOL, not many i'd imagine, but the 1200 stat as hk says inclueds alot of things and even guns stolen from museums that no longer work.

Those pirates in the Indian Ocean must have got a hold of a few of these babies.


Aaaarrhh. Hand over the tanker, or i'll blast ye.

Rew

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Yeah I know, I just thought it was funny.

I've heard of crims doing some really stupid things though!

eroo

http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhsnmhgbsnmh/

09/01/2009 - 09:02:24
Gardaí are investigating the theft of up to 30 guns from a licensed firearms dealership in Co Tipperary early this morning.

The owners of the dealership in the Cregg area of Carrick-on-Suir returned home from a night to find four men waiting outside the premises.

At least one of the men was carrying a firearm.

The couple were taken into the house and the gang proceeded to steal an assortment of guns, including pistols and rifles, before fleeing in the family car.

No shots were fired during the robbery and nobody was injured.

The Gardaí say they are particularly keen to locate the stolen car, a beige or champagne-coloured Honda Civic Saloon with the registration 03 WX 5048.

That and a licensed handgun stolen in a Limerick suburb(reported in local press) means 31 licensed firearms have been stolen already in 09. Gardai have said regarding the handgun in Limerick, they fear it will be used in crime in the future.

Rew

The Sig in Limerick seems to have not been locked up which is shocking but the details are limited so far. I still stand by what i've said abd Paul Willaims (who was refered to earlier in the tread) was on the Last Word Yesterday sating that going after licenced guns will have no effect, he was actually very positive about licened shooters.

Nothing cant prevent these stye or robberies.

eroo

Rew wrote: »

The Sig in Limerick seems to have not been locked up which is shocking but the details are limited so far. I still stand by what i've said abd Paul Willaims (who was refered to earlier in the tread) was on the Last Word Yesterday sating that going after licenced guns will have no effect, he was actually very positive about licened shooters.

Nothing cant prevent these stye or robberies.

Well regarding the Sig, if it had been stored in a Garda Station(theory previously mentioned) it would not now be in criminal hands.

Rew

eroo wrote: »

Well regarding the Sig, if it had been stored in a Garda Station(theory previously mentioned) it would not now be in criminal hands.

That was done to death already and you certainly can't say that for sure (see the link I posted to the 2 pistols that made there way from a Garda Station to a criminals appartment).

eroo

Rew wrote: »

That was done to death already and you certainly can't say that for sure (see the link I posted to the 2 pistols that made there way from a Garda Station to a criminals appartment).

Well they seem to be making there way from private hands into criminals hands more often than they would if they were in Garda Stations.

Eru

Rew wrote: »

Nothing cant prevent these stye or robberies.

Are you serious? You see no way to stop legal firearms from being stolen from a firearm dealer? If they were not available for sale and not available to legally own they could not have been stolen. Its fairly simple.

And this blows the theory concerning theft V smuggling out of the water.

Rew

Re-read the thread. the senario that happend was well covered and there is no easy way to combat it. It's well used against banks and other cash rich business for a while now. Also the figures for stolen firearms are listed earlier its not a big secret thats been busted now.

The theory is far from blown, its a fact that lots of guns come in in the drug shipments (something Paul Williams went on about the other day). How many firearms dealers are robbed each week versus how many drug shipments are landing in? We have a 0.1% legal firearm theft rate hardly epidemic.

No legal firearms doesnt not equate to no criminals haveing guns. The criminals need to be delt with to stop the crime.

eroo

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/raid-gun-haul-likely-to-end-up-in-hands-of-feud-gangs-1597815.html

Last month, it was revealed that 31 handguns had been stolen by criminals since the law was relaxed four years ago. These included a variety of pistols and revolvers taken from the owners' homes.

Granted it is not an epidemic, it is still 31 handguns in the possession of scrotes. 31 too many imo.

TheNog

Heres a simple idea that could be implemented quite easily for firearms dealers:

Have their premises alarm monitored in such a way that if the alarm is deactivated within a certain time frame say between 5.30pm to 8.30am the next day, the alarm company calls Gardai right away. Would go a long way to prevent this type of MO.

Rew

Yeah I was thinking about something similar alright. Would make the premisis the time locked like a bank. This guy was pretty remote by the sounds of it so I would say they would wait till 9am and do it anyway. His setup sounds like he ran some sort of shooting busniess like clays etc on site and also acted as a dealer. Its quite a common setup here. I've mentioned duress codes before as well, but as you said whould sombody use a duress code with peoples lives at stake.

Rew

eroo wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/raid-gun-haul-likely-to-end-up-in-hands-of-feud-gangs-1597815.html

Granted it is not an epidemic, it is still 31 handguns in the possession of scrotes. 31 too many imo.

Everyone can agree with that. BTW 31 guns not handguns, its likely that delear only had 2 or 3 handguns. Dealers generally only bring them in to order so stocks are low.

eroo

According to an article in the Sunday Indo, Gardai think the ''Continuity'' IRA were responsible for the theft, and now those weapons may be used in armed robberies to raise 'funds'

Rew

Very worrying to see these guys active:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gardai-fear-gun-thefts-linked-to-ira-renegades-1598256.html

eroo

Imo, whatever security measures are in place regarding firearms dealers needs to be revised because if the likes of those guys get their hands on more legally held weapons, it may be an unarmed Garda who comes up against them...and loses.

diverdriver

For all the debate the government is going ahead and going to ban handguns and probably some rifles. Of course it won't make the slightest difference to gun crime. When they took the guns off everyone in the 70s in case the IRA got hold of them. That didn't work either.

It's just another case of a lame duck government trying to seen to do something. Blaming law abiding citizens who happen to own guns for something perpetrated by gangsters is yet another low. But what do you expect from those idiots?

The truth of the matter is that it won't save a single life or stop a gun falling into the hands of scumbags.

In fact it's always been relatively easy to your hands on illegal guns if you know the right people. I remember being horrified when I heard of some kids who 'rented' a handgun for the day for a bit of fun. I don't suppose that has changed much. If you want a gun you go to the people who have them, drug dealers. I'm sure they are more than happy to supply you, no worries about licences etc.

In any case most stolen guns are shotguns and that won't change. People are very careless about shotguns. They won't be banned because even this government wouldn't go that far.

sig226

When they took the guns off everyone in the 70s in case the IRA got hold of them

The funny thing is that the North has over 10,000 licensed handguns.

TheNog

Rew wrote: »

Very worrying to see these guys active:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gardai-fear-gun-thefts-linked-to-ira-renegades-1598256.html

These guys will always but active as long there is money to be made from smuggling, drugs, pirate dvds, racketeering etc.

If anyone really thinks they have Ulster or Catholic people in mind are foolish. They only want to line their own pockets

eroo

They are not terrorists, but drug dealing criminals!

Anyways, lets just hope and pray that these guns are recovered and those responsible are arrested.

hk

diverdriver wrote: »

For all the debate the government is going ahead and going to ban handguns and probably some rifles. Of course it won't make the slightest difference to gun crime. When they took the guns off everyone in the 70s in case the IRA got hold of them. That didn't work either.

It's just another case of a lame duck government trying to seen to do something. Blaming law abiding citizens who happen to own guns for something perpetrated by gangsters is yet another low. But what do you expect from those idiots?

The truth of the matter is that it won't save a single life or stop a gun falling into the hands of scumbags.

In fact it's always been relatively easy to your hands on illegal guns if you know the right people. I remember being horrified when I heard of some kids who 'rented' a handgun for the day for a bit of fun. I don't suppose that has changed much. If you want a gun you go to the people who have them, drug dealers. I'm sure they are more than happy to supply you, no worries about licences etc.

In any case most stolen guns are shotguns and that won't change. People are very careless about shotguns. They won't be banned because even this government wouldn't go that far.

here here,
there were figures released reciently as to the break down of the 31 handguns stolen over the 4 year period, there were 4 centerfire/revolvers listed and the figures were stated to also contain, blank firing handguns, museum peices and air pistols. The important one here is museum pieces in my opinion, a few years back there were was a large theft of 'handguns' from kilmainham, which i think probably makes up the bulk of those figures, if anybody is interested in investigating further!!

Eru

hk wrote: »

here here,
there were figures released reciently as to the break down of the 31 handguns stolen over the 4 year period, there were 4 centerfire/revolvers listed and the figures were stated to also contain, blank firing handguns, museum peices and air pistols. The important one here is museum pieces in my opinion, a few years back there were was a large theft of 'handguns' from kilmainham, which i think probably makes up the bulk of those figures, if anybody is interested in investigating further!!

Well your the one making the statement so how about you investigate and report back?