Campaign to say NO to govt compensation over pork problem

ven0m

Pork slaughter houses & production factories have laid off approx. 2,000 staff now across Ireland temporarily, & refuse to resume production until the Irish Government agrees to a compensation package for them. Farmers Associations have made the same claims for 100,00 pigs they say they have to destroy that they cannot sell. This comes at a time when the exchequer is in trouble, & yet again we have another group of people claiming compensation & payment from the tax payer for problems the tax payer did not cause.

Now before you dismiss this , think about this. The NCA (National Consumers Association) says all pork products bought since September 1st (3 months ago - THREE MONTHS of contamination & it only comes to light in December publicly!!!!) are entitled to be returned by consumers to stores along with a receipt/proof of purchase for a refund under the claim 'not fit for purpose/damaged goods'.

All the retails agree on this also. Now, here's where it gets interesting. Why the **** are farmers & pork slaughter houses asking the tax payer to foot the bill, when the chain of events should be:

* retails claiming refunds from meat suppliers
* meat suppliers then claiming refunds from farmers
* farmers claiming refunds & compensation from feed suppliers

I mean, surely that makes far more sense than adding further burden to the public coffers, & needless compensation where it is not due from the public tax payer.

I advise everyone & anyone out there who takes part on radio shows, or otherwise to ensure this point is raised; the producers & farmers need to be made go back to claim THEIR REFUNDS FROM THEIR RESPECTIVE suppliers & not place this burden onto an already en-burdened taxpayer, & tax system that is already under incredible pressure due to overly greedy banks who were badly managed & regulated, as well as a government who mis-managed public funds & who themselves should be facing a PAC over the eVoting machines, & why we neer sought refunds & costs from the suppliers for EQUIPMENT THAT DID NOT WORK.

Everyone please ensure you add your 2 cents to the media & radio where & when you can on this - do NOT have your already tight tax money wasted or given to people who should be following the advice they issue in conjunction with the NCA!

Danbo!

ven0m wrote: »

yet again we have another group of people claiming compensation & payment from the tax payer for problems the tax payer did not cause.

This is as far as I got. If every tax payer only paid for problems they caused, the country would be in a much bigger mess than it is today.

Darragh29

I can kind of see the point here. On the face of it, it looks like another vested interest paying the stronger hand at the moment, betting on the government having to give in if 1,000 people are laid off with every day that this continues.

I'd gladly do without Christmas ham however if in 6 days time, the government have still not sorted it all out, and 6,000 people are out of work and the government falls on the issue. That would make my Christmas...

Highsider

ven0m wrote: »

Pork slaughter houses & production factories have laid off approx. 2,000 staff now across Ireland temporarily, & refuse to resume production until the Irish Government agrees to a compensation package for them. Farmers Associations have made the same claims for 100,00 pigs they say they have to destroy that they cannot sell. This comes at a time when the exchequer is in trouble, & yet again we have another group of people claiming compensation & payment from the tax payer for problems the tax payer did not cause.

Now before you dismiss this , think about this. The NCA (National Consumers Association) says all pork products bought since September 1st (3 months ago - THREE MONTHS of contamination & it only comes to light in December publicly!!!!) are entitled to be returned by consumers to stores along with a receipt/proof of purchase for a refund under the claim 'not fit for purpose/damaged goods'.

All the retails agree on this also. Now, here's where it gets interesting. Why the **** are farmers & pork slaughter houses asking the tax payer to foot the bill, when the chain of events should be:

* retails claiming refunds from meat suppliers
* meat suppliers then claiming refunds from farmers
* farmers claiming refunds & compensation from feed suppliers

I mean, surely that makes far more sense than adding further burden to the public coffers, & needless compensation where it is not due from the public tax payer.

I advise everyone & anyone out there who takes part on radio shows, or otherwise to ensure this point is raised; the producers & farmers need to be made go back to claim THEIR REFUNDS FROM THEIR RESPECTIVE suppliers & not place this burden onto an already en-burdened taxpayer, & tax system that is already under incredible pressure due to overly greedy banks who were badly managed & regulated, as well as a government who mis-managed public funds & who themselves should be facing a PAC over the eVoting machines, & why we neer sought refunds & costs from the suppliers for EQUIPMENT THAT DID NOT WORK.

Everyone please ensure you add your 2 cents to the media & radio where & when you can on this - do NOT have your already tight tax money wasted or given to people who should be following the advice they issue in conjunction with the NCA!

+1

bottletops

ven0m wrote: »

* farmers claiming refunds & compensation from feed suppliers

Tell me where the feed suppliers get refunds from.... I mean the suppliers not involved in any way in this mess? The pig farming industry is only just recovering from some of its toughest times yet. Not so long ago farmers were LOSING €6 per pig. This was due to crazy feed prices driven by high prices on world markets. Most Pig farmers are still up to their eyes in debt and are getting no more help from the banks. Feed companies themselves are against the wall as they have many farmers with a lot of outstanding credit. They have been operating on tight margins to try to keep the industry alive as it is.

The thing is though, that the industry was just turning the corner and starting to come good again. What option is there but to help it out. Isn't it better to inject money so people can keep working, paying their taxes and not be joining the end of already too long dole queues? Where else will the money come from?

ven0m

noblestee wrote: »

This is as far as I got. If every tax payer only paid for problems they caused, the country would be in a much bigger mess than it is today.

Be that as it may I can't help but feel what you said is an atypical response from an atypical irish person who couldn't care less - it is this kind of apathy that has the country in the crap it is in - because the politicians in all parties know how apathetic the populous is to anything, they continue to screw us, abuse us, & generally not do their part of 'for the people, by the people', abuse money we pay in every day into the tax system, without any accountability & then later penalise us when they waste it.

Gordon Brown may be an arse, but at least he will talk the talk, unlike our shower of gits who go unchallenged.

If you pay for something, which you do through your tax - you have a right to complain, & not exercising that complaint when it is warranted is borderline criminal.

ejmaztec

The tax-payer will have to stump up because we all owe these people a living because they look after us so much and go out of their way to make certain that we don't get poisoned. :rolleyes:

ven0m

bottletops wrote: »

Tell me where the feed suppliers get refunds from.... I mean the suppliers not involved in any way in this mess? The pig farming industry is only just recovering from some of its toughest times yet. No so long ago farmers were LOSING €6 per pig. This was due to crazy feed prices driven by high prices on world markets. Most Pig farmers are still up to their eyes in debt and are getting no more help from the banks. Feed companies themselves are against the wall as they have many farmers on with a lot of outstanding credit.

The thing is though, that the industry was just turning the corner and starting to come good again. What option is there but to help it out. Isn't it better to inject money so people can keep working, paying their taxes and not be joining the end of already too long dole queues? Where else will the money come from?

Feed suppliers if they have caused the problem, well that's tough ****. If I produce a product that's dodgy & sell it on, especially where public health & safety is concerned - well then why should I be compensated??

Farmers should be taking claims against feed suppliers for damages, & EPA fines should be heavily mitagated against the feed suppliers, which should also go into a fund to help farmers obtain fair damages.

The tax payer should NOT be taking this hit, & to suggest otherwise you may as well be Roddy Molloy.

Blazer

It's the typical farmer mentality..someone somewhere has to compensate them..fair enough in this case but definitely not the taxpayers job to.

bottletops

ven0m wrote: »

Feed suppliers if they have caused the problem, well that's tough ****.

Re-ready my post..... I'm not talking about the 1 supplier who has caused this. I'm talking about the many others who have done nothing wrong.

Darragh29

An update on this just in....

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1209/pork.html

ven0m

bottletops wrote: »

Re-ready my post..... I'm not talking about the 1 supplier who has caused this. I'm talking about the many others who have done nothing wrong.

Those feed suppliers who have done nothing wrong, it is still business as usual - pigs still need feeding.

Feed suppliers aren't asking for hands out - farmers & pork slaughter houses/processing plants are, so your point is null & void with respect to feed suppliers.

ven0m

Darragh29 wrote: »

An update on this just in....

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1209/pork.html

The ONE time the EU actually works .........

But still, NO government funding should go to farmers who had contaminated feed. They should be claiming back their refunds for faulty products under NCA guidelines, which are also part of European guidelines.

Biggins

ven0m wrote: »

The ONE time the EU actually works .........

Aye, they worked themselves up to say "No". :rolleyes:

Dyr

bottletops wrote: »

Tell me where the feed suppliers get refunds from.... I mean the suppliers not involved in any way in this mess? The pig farming industry is only just recovering from some of its toughest times yet. Not so long ago farmers were LOSING €6 per pig. This was due to crazy feed prices driven by high prices on world markets. Most Pig farmers are still up to their eyes in debt and are getting no more help from the banks. Feed companies themselves are against the wall as they have many farmers with a lot of outstanding credit. They have been operating on tight margins to try to keep the industry alive as it is.

The thing is though, that the industry was just turning the corner and starting to come good again. What option is there but to help it out. Isn't it better to inject money so people can keep working, paying their taxes and not be joining the end of already too long dole queues? Where else will the money come from?

Why is it that farming sector think they're the only ones to whom the state has a sacred responsibilty to keep in a job no matter what?

Bottom line is that the people who introduced the contamination into the food chain are to blame..let them pay. I'm not subsidising the farmers again.

Darragh29

ven0m wrote: »

The ONE time the EU actually works .........

But still, NO government funding should go to farmers who had contaminated feed. They should be claiming back their refunds for faulty products under NCA guidelines, which are also part of European guidelines.

Given the loss here or before this happened, the opportuity for loss, do feed manufacturers not have to have insurance to cover this type of an eventuality?

ven0m

Darragh29 wrote: »

Given the loss here or before this happened, the opportuity for loss, do feed manufacturers not have to have insurance to cover this type of an eventuality?

Sure why would they do that when they know you, me & every other tax payer is there to be tapped whenever they like by a government who sees us as their own private personal cash cow herd. :rolleyes:


Actually, it is also worth pointing out that the workers being laid off by the grab assing whores are going to be funded by the tax payer - I'm sorry, but the companies involved should again be making the relevant claims, & not again passing the buck to the taxpayer.

Darragh29

ven0m wrote: »

Sure why would they do that when they know you, me & every other tax payer is there to be tapped whenever they like by a government who sees us as their own private personal cash cow herd. :rolleyes:

Yeah but surely they HAVE to have their own insurance to deal with this type of an event?

ven0m

Darragh29 wrote: »

Yeah but surely they HAVE to have their own insurance to deal with this type of an event?

When the taxpayer is available to tap like your own in-house personal whore, why would you get insurance? For too long farming has been hailed as a sacred cow in Ireland, when it simply does not provide the most employment, tax revenue or otherwise. Saying it must be protected at all times, is as idiotic as those three morons in the US from GM, Chrysler & Ford who have their begging cups out because they couldn't run with a pair of Nike on, let alone the companies they are charged with.

Iago

Regardless of whether the government, and by extension the rest of us, bend over here the amounts being discussed make no sense.

We have a Pork business in Ireland that's estimated to be worth, at most, around €750m a year. That includes all exports and pig meat sold for a full calendar year to every possible destination in the world.

So the processors want €1Bn from the government for their losses over one 6 week period of the year. I don't care how busy the xmas period is, they're taking the piss completely if they think they can get away with it.

Add in every company that's using this as an excuse to lay off staff and avoid paying them a bonus over the xmas period and it all leaves a sour taste in the mouth. Rather like eating their products really.

faceman

Im for a level for compensation for those effected. Not all parties impacted by the issue were privy to the problem, which was caused by one company in Carlow. The money needs to be invested in getting things back on track rather than lining people's pockets.

2,000 people have already lost their jobs. 6,000 in total are employed by the industry.

There is a bigger issue here. Money will need to be invested to promote ALL irish food exports after this event. Its not as simple as a batch of animals getting sick. its about an unlicenses company acting in a fashion that went unnoticed for months.

ven0m

faceman wrote: »

Im for a level for compensation for those effected. Not all parties impacted by the issue were privy to the problem, which was caused by one company in Carlow. The money needs to be invested in getting things back on track rather than lining people's pockets.

It's a problem that was known about for 3 months in the industry & kept hush hush til the media broke the story

faceman wrote: »

2,000 people have already lost their jobs. 6,000 in total are employed by the industry.

This was elective by the company, not a necessity & it is conveniently just before Christmas & the hold-up in taking people back to work is the suits in charge grab-assing! I'll bet the directors still took their company cars & used them, & are still engaged in 'expensed-lunches'. Cry me a river. It's the same as the three morons from Chrysler, Ford & GM who flew on private jets & transferred by private limo with their 'begging cups in hand', with their fat bonus's still intact before Senate committees in the US.

faceman wrote: »

There is a bigger issue here. Money will need to be invested to promote ALL irish food exports after this event. Its not as simple as a batch of animals getting sick. its about an unlicenses company acting in a fashion that went unnoticed for months.

And no fines will be handed down, no directors excluded from directorships, & not even an apology to the public who have been ingesting poisons for three months which were at up to 200 times suggested 'tolerable' amounts.

Yes sure, let's yet again protect another industry which takes public health & & safety as a joke. If this was a restaurant in dublin causing 200 people food poisoning, it'd be shut down. Millions of people across europe ingested possible pork products from meats processed there. Maths at that brief level of explanation are themselves self explanitory, as is the correct & proper courses of action with all involved & allegedly 'affected'.

faceman

ven0m wrote: »

It's a problem that was known about for 3 months in the industry & kept hush hush til the media broke the story

says who? Show me evidence that suggests everyone involved kept it hush hush.

wrote:

This was elective by the company, not a necessity & it is conveniently just before Christmas & the hold-up in taking people back to work is the suits in charge grab-assing!

i dont follow your sentence here but im presuming that you mean that it was excuse to lay off people? Again, where is the evidence of this?

wrote:

And no fines will be handed down, no directors excluded from directorships, & not even an apology to the public who have been ingesting poisons for three months which were at up to 200 times suggested 'tolerable' amounts.

We will have to wait and see what comes out of the garda investigation on this one. But i agree, heads should roll.

wrote:

Yes sure, let's yet again protect another industry which takes public health & & safety as a joke. If this was a restaurant in dublin causing 200 people food poisoning, it'd be shut down. Millions of people across europe ingested possible pork products from meats processed there. Maths at that brief level of explanation are themselves self explanitory, as is the correct & proper courses of action with all involved & allegedly 'affected'.

Um, how is the money going to be used to protect the industry if its going to be invested in putting things back on track?

aidan_walsh

ven0m wrote: »

Be that as it may I can't help but feel what you said is an atypical response from an atypical irish person who couldn't care less - it is this kind of apathy that has the country in the crap it is in - because the politicians in all parties know how apathetic the populous is to anything, they continue to screw us, abuse us, & generally not do their part of 'for the people, by the people', abuse money we pay in every day into the tax system, without any accountability & then later penalise us when they waste it.

Gordon Brown may be an arse, but at least he will talk the talk, unlike our shower of gits who go unchallenged.

If you pay for something, which you do through your tax - you have a right to complain, & not exercising that complaint when it is warranted is borderline criminal.

I don't think atypical means what you think it means...

grahamo

Compo for farmers and meat processors? They should think themselves lucky that after poisoning Joe Public He isn't suing their arses off!!!
P.S. I think they should be at least apologising to the public.

ven0m

faceman wrote: »

says who? Show me evidence that suggests everyone involved kept it hush hush.

It has been known about for three months by the EPA & others, including the dept. of agriculture. What else would you can call that, please tell me you're not THAT stupid!

faceman wrote: »

i dont follow your sentence here but im presuming that you mean that it was excuse to lay off people? Again, where is the evidence of this?

Their first actions when it gets media attention - lay staff off, then with-hold taking staff back til they get a government hand out, at a time when unemployment is a hot-topic ..... how interesting.....

faceman wrote: »

We will have to wait and see what comes out of the garda investigation on this one. But i agree, heads should roll.

Amen

faceman wrote: »

Um, how is the money going to be used to protect the industry if its going to be invested in putting things back on track?

Because government handouts in this country to troubled industry is almost always abused & misappropriated, has the Fas scenario not taught you anything? Or previous 'aid' to farming organisations, where not long after hand-outs loads of farmers 'sold off' land to developers .... the correct action here is firstly heads rolling; accountability & culpability. And there's LOTS.


sheeesh, some people have very VERY short memories......

ven0m

aidan_walsh wrote: »

I don't think atypical means what you think it means...

Sorry, meant typical or 'stereoptypical' really ... but thank you teacher on your very very valuable addition to the thread of discussion, where I'm sure my choice of wording (or misuse as the case is) is more important than my tax money being given to greedy bastards in suits who think we owe them a living.

phantom_lord

bottletops wrote: »

Tell me where the feed suppliers get refunds from.... I mean the suppliers not involved in any way in this mess? The pig farming industry is only just recovering from some of its toughest times yet. Not so long ago farmers were LOSING €6 per pig. This was due to crazy feed prices driven by high prices on world markets. Most Pig farmers are still up to their eyes in debt and are getting no more help from the banks. Feed companies themselves are against the wall as they have many farmers with a lot of outstanding credit. They have been operating on tight margins to try to keep the industry alive as it is.

The thing is though, that the industry was just turning the corner and starting to come good again. What option is there but to help it out. Isn't it better to inject money so people can keep working, paying their taxes and not be joining the end of already too long dole queues? Where else will the money come from?

boo hoo. if farming isn't viable then they should go do something else and not expect to be subsidized for running a loss making business.

javaboy

ven0m wrote: »

noblestee wrote: »

This is as far as I got. If every tax payer only paid for problems they caused, the country would be in a much bigger mess than it is today.

Be that as it may I can't help but feel what you said is an atypical response from an atypical irish person who couldn't care less - it is this kind of apathy that has the country in the crap it is in - because the politicians in all parties know how apathetic the populous is to anything, they continue to screw us, abuse us, & generally not do their part of 'for the people, by the people', abuse money we pay in every day into the tax system, without any accountability & then later penalise us when they waste it.

Noblestee is making a good point though. Sometimes the taxpayer has to step in and fix things that the taxpayer didn't break because to do otherwise would be socially/morally irresponsible or would be a case of cutting of your nose to spite your face. e.g. fixing the health service, guaranteeing banks and maybe bailing out the pig farming industry.

It's all well and good to say consumers claim off retailers, retailers claim off suppliers, suppliers claim off feed manafacturers but in reality that won't work. I don't have the receipt for my rashers and sausages and the sliced ham I threw out. I'd say countless people are in the same boat. And you seem to be only considering the produce that had to be scrapped. There are so many other losses involved. Consumer confidence in Irish pork has been eroded here and destroyed abroad.

That has cost jobs already and will cost more. No amount of refunds for discarded meat will be able to compensate for that. And as for suing the feed company at the centre of it all, what will happen there is it will quickly go bankrupt and nobody will get much out of them.

So we'll have a seriously damaged pork industry and the taxpayer will still have to fork out for the dole payments.

ShooterSF

It really is pretty stupid. Taxpayer returns meat to store. Gets refund. Store returns meat to farmer. Gets refund. Refund is taken back off taxpayer to give back to farmer. Farmer and store win.

If the pork industry is worth so much surely farmers can sell their farms to someone with the finances to turn the farm back into profit. Isn't this how capitalism works?

javaboy

ShooterSF wrote: »

It really is pretty stupid. Taxpayer returns meat to store. Gets refund. Store returns meat to farmer. Gets refund. Refund is taken back off taxpayer to give back to farmer. Farmer and store win.

Jobs have already been lost and receipts have already been binned. The idea sounds nice in principle but it wouldn't work.

If the pork industry is worth so much surely farmers can sell their farms to someone with the finances to turn the farm back into profit. Isn't this how capitalism works?

That's a fair point. Unfortunately investors don't have buckets of money floating around at the moment. As Sarah Palin might say, "I feel ill" over any pork industry bailout but I'd rather have a thriving pork industry that got out of jail at the taxpayer's expense once than a devastated pork industry.

ShooterSF

javaboy wrote: »

That's a fair point. Unfortunately investors don't have buckets of money floating around at the moment. As Sarah Palin might say, "I feel ill" over any pork industry bailout but I'd rather have a thriving pork industry that got out of jail at the taxpayer's expense once than a devastated pork industry.

Im sure there are enough opportunists out there to see the chance to get their hands on some underpriced farms. If not I'd be surprised. The other alternative I could think of was the tax payers lending the money but that's rather pointless as it'll just indirectly push up prices.

It'a not nice to have people loosing jobs but that's what happens when an industry hits such a bump.

I do agree with them seeking comp from the feed suppliers as they were at fault here.
The question the farming industry has to ask itself then is why did the government feel that the products could not be traced and it was better to wipe out all the stock. There seems to be something going on there.

phantom_lord

javaboy wrote: »

As Sarah Palin might say, "I feel ill" over any pork industry bailout but I'd rather have a thriving pork industry that got out of jail at the taxpayer's expense once than a devastated pork industry.

huh? we're never gonna have such a thing, even if they're bailed out. if the industry is as weak as is suggested in this thread, amd is knocked to it's knees by this then so be it. it's only worth 400m a year to the economy and sounds like it's in dire straits. let it burn imo. we'd be much better off supporting an industry with a future.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Well the fact of the matter is, if the government pays the farmers for their loss of revenue, then them 2000 jobs would have been secured. That is ok with me. What I do not like is the fact that these farmers say they will not produce any more products until they are payed for their loss.

We, the consumer, have a lot of substitutes for this. Chicken, beef, fish etc etc. We can buy differant products. Although I like my pork, I am not going to be held hostage by the farmers. Let them rot if they are going to have attitudes like this. That is the lowest of the low, holding food products ransom for taxpayers money...

ven0m

javaboy wrote: »

Noblestee is making a good point though. Sometimes the taxpayer has to step in and fix things that the taxpayer didn't break because to do otherwise would be socially/morally irresponsible or would be a case of cutting of your nose to spite your face. e.g. fixing the health service, guaranteeing banks and maybe bailing out the pig farming industry.

It's all well and good to say consumers claim off retailers, retailers claim off suppliers, suppliers claim off feed manafacturers but in reality that won't work. I don't have the receipt for my rashers and sausages and the sliced ham I threw out. I'd say countless people are in the same boat. And you seem to be only considering the produce that had to be scrapped. There are so many other losses involved. Consumer confidence in Irish pork has been eroded here and destroyed abroad.

That has cost jobs already and will cost more. No amount of refunds for discarded meat will be able to compensate for that. And as for suing the feed company at the centre of it all, what will happen there is it will quickly go bankrupt and nobody will get much out of them.

So we'll have a seriously damaged pork industry and the taxpayer will still have to fork out for the dole payments.

The Irish taxpayer over the years has not gotten any value for money where it's had to step in & fix things. We're stepping in to help greedy bankers & already there is no value, & they insist on spending lavish amounts on parties, etc, & still no sign of the big 'company cars' being done away with ..... which WE are footing the bill for twice; as customers & tax payers.

There has to come a point where tax-payer value for money comes first, & given the crisis with public coffers, that really needs to be the first question.

ShooterSF

Lucia Melted Meteorology wrote: »

Well the fact of the matter is, if the government pays the farmers for their loss of revenue, then them 2000 jobs would have been secured. That is ok with me. What I do not like is the fact that these farmers say they will not produce any more products until they are payed for their loss.

We, the consumer, have a lot of substitutes for this. Chicken, beef, fish etc etc. We can buy differant products. Although I like my pork, I am not going to be held hostage by the farmers. Let them rot if they are going to have attitudes like this. That is the lowest of the low, holding food products ransom for taxpayers money...

It's simple. Following through the solution here is not that bad. Farmers not making produce run out of money. They have to sell their farms. People buy the land and off them and become farmers 2000 people get new jobs.

Or the farmers sell up. We rezone the land and put in industrial parks, import our produce and export something else. 2000 people get their jobs back.

jhegarty

Your own ford cars. You have done everything correctly and safely.

One other car manufacture makes a dogey car that crashes and possibly hurts someone's leg. No one was died , or is seriously injured.

The government overreacts and recalls all cars from sales , and orders them crushed.

Should you pick up the tab , or the government ?

brianthebard

ven0m wrote: »

Be that as it may I can't help but feel what you said is an atypical response from an atypical irish person who couldn't care less - it is this kind of apathy that has the country in the crap it is in - because the politicians in all parties know how apathetic the populous is to anything, they continue to screw us, abuse us, & generally not do their part of 'for the people, by the people', abuse money we pay in every day into the tax system, without any accountability & then later penalise us when they waste it.

Gordon Brown may be an arse, but at least he will talk the talk, unlike our shower of gits who go unchallenged.

If you pay for something, which you do through your tax - you have a right to complain, & not exercising that complaint when it is warranted is borderline criminal.

He talk's what talk? He dithered for ages before nationalising Northern Rock. Same with the election that never happened. Just because this has been happening since September doesn't necessarily mean anyone knew about it-I don't know any farmers who would intentionally poison their livestock and make them worthless. And even if its just for reasons of maintaining the base FF are good at dealing with agricultural issues by and large (F&M)

brianthebard

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

It's the typical farmer mentality..someone somewhere has to compensate them..fair enough in this case but definitely not the taxpayers job to.

You know nothing about farming or the farming sector.

jhegarty

brianthebard wrote: »

You know nothing about farming or the farming sector.

I don't think anyone here does. The prices in the supermarket caused by unsubsidized farming would wake them up pretty quickly

ShooterSF

jhegarty wrote: »

Your own ford cars. You have done everything correctly and safely.

One other car manufacture makes a dogey car that crashes and possibly hurts someone's leg. No one was died , or is seriously injured.

The government overreacts and recalls all cars from sales , and orders them crushed.

Should you pick up the tab , or the government ?

More likely a few manufacturers cars are dodgey due to a company that makes engines sends out a batch of faulty engines.
For some reason no one in the car industry points out that the cars can be traced back to their manufacturers (something there suppose to have in place) for "some" reason and all are crushed.
Now who picks up the tab?
Either The engine maker most likely or to a minor extent those responsible for keeping track of this trace back system.
If the car manufacturers decide then instead of taking legal action against the government if they have a problem they try and blackmail the system then they should be left to rot.

BlindedByGInge

ShooterSF wrote: »

It's simple. Following through the solution here is not that bad. Farmers not making produce run out of money. They have to sell their farms. People buy the land and off them and become farmers 2000 people get new jobs.

Or the farmers sell up. We rezone the land and put in industrial parks, import our produce and export something else. 2000 people get their jobs back.

What kind of solution is this. You are taking the piss i presume.
What 2000 farmers are going to be able to sell their land in these current times. And fyi these 2000 people are from the pork processing industry and they need jobs and have no major assets. If the government dont bail out the pork processers then, not only will we have an even longer dole queue then we will also have way higher pork prices, more foreign pork and a massive collapse in the agricultural sector. Hence even longer dole queues. People are complaining about not having their fry ups in the morning now, what will it be like when you are paying twice the price for it.

Also lets just stop any type of agricultural grant, its not the taxpayers problem!!!! ITS EVERYBODYS PROBLEM. Its on the same basis/theory most people here have about helping out the pork industry. Just wait until fodd prices increase so much that no-one can pay their bills leading to an even bigger depression. I cant wait, can you?

Kershaw.D

Does anyone know when it will be safe for us to eat pork again

ShooterSF

BlindedByGInge wrote: »

What kind of solution is this. You are taking the piss i presume.
What 2000 farmers are going to be able to sell their land in these current times. And fyi these 2000 people are from the pork processing industry and they need jobs and have no major assets. If the government dont bail out the pork processers then, not only will we have an even longer dole queue then we will also have way higher pork prices, more foreign pork and a massive collapse in the agricultural sector. Hence even longer dole queues. People are complaining about not having their fry ups in the morning now, what will it be like when you are paying twice the price for it.

Also lets just stop any type of agricultural grant, its not the taxpayers problem!!!! ITS EVERYBODYS PROBLEM. Its on the same basis/theory most people here have about helping out the pork industry. Just wait until fodd prices increase so much that no-one can pay their bills leading to an even bigger depression. I cant wait, can you?

Well if the farmers believe that the government owe them compensation because of a gross over reaction on their part fair enough let them take it to the courts and we'll have one more reason to boot this ****e government out. However the throwing my rattle out of my pram till I get what I want tactic doesnt wash. Any farmer who could be working now and isn't can take his pork sausages and put them where the sun don't shine tbh.
I have no problem with farmers getting compensation if someone can tell me why those that supplied them with contaminated feed shouldnt pay it and why the government felt they couldnt trace the pork back to their specific farms?
The second question is something Im genuinely interested in. Was it government overreaction? Was the trace back system inadequate, and who's fault would that be? Or were farmers bending rules (don't know why they would but Im sure theres probably some reason) ?

brianthebard

ShooterSF wrote: »

Well if the farmers believe that the government owe them compensation because of a gross over reaction on their part fair enough let them take it to the courts and we'll have one more reason to boot this ****e government out. However the throwing my rattle out of my pram till I get what I want tactic doesnt wash. Any farmer who could be working now and isn't can take his pork sausages and put them where the sun don't shine tbh.
I have no problem with farmers getting compensation if someone can tell me why those that supplied them with contaminated feed shouldnt pay it and why the government felt they couldnt trace the pork back to their specific farms?
The second question is something Im genuinely interested in. Was it government overreaction? Was the trace back system inadequate, and who's fault would that be? Or were farmers bending rules (don't know why they would but Im sure theres probably some reason) ?

Which farmers do you feel could be working and aren't? Do you have a list?Why are they not working? Really, I'd love to see you keep digging this hole.

Dyr

jhegarty wrote: »

I don't think anyone here does. The prices in the supermarket caused by unsubsidized farming would wake them up pretty quickly

We'd probably be saving about half the EU's budget if we werent given farmers subsidies.

If we dropped our import tariff's on foreign imports they'd knock the living p*ss out of our homegrown produce on value.

Of course you wouldnt have the peace of mind of knowing that your food is safe with that all foreign stuff.... :pac:

Most workers have spent their life handing over free money to farmers, let 'em go to the wall.

ShooterSF

brianthebard wrote: »

Which farmers do you feel could be working and aren't? Do you have a list?Why are they not working? Really, I'd love to see you keep digging this hole.

First line in the OP's post. Didnt see it disputed in 3 pages either.

paddysdream

Bambi wrote: »

We'd probably be saving about half the EU's budget if we werent given farmers subsidies.

If we dropped our import tariff's on foreign imports they'd knock the living p*ss out of our homegrown produce on value.

Of course you wouldnt have the peace of mind of knowing that your food is safe with that all foreign stuff.... :pac:

Most workers have spent their life handing over free money to farmers, let 'em go to the wall.

unlike most people on here ranting and raving about farming i actually do know it very well and can assure you that most irish food is produced at a loss to the producer and subsidies only compensate for the artifically low prices demanded by supermarkets
if farming was so easy and profitable why dont you try it ?
for an industrial wage you would need approx 250 acres@ say 14000 an acre ,that would need to be mortgaga free by the way
then maybe a seasonal loan of approx 35000 to 60000
sheep: average irish flock about 150ewes thats 250 lambs @ 75=18750 GROSS pre tax profit on those is about 2000 (yes2000)
mine own flock is about 6 times that so profit is about 12000 pre tax
add in subs and i still cant make average industrial wage on a highly productive large scale system with over 2 mil in assets
cattle:a joke at the mo. read any farming publication official or otherwise and it states in black and white ,over 80% of irish cattle die in debt only eu subvention keeps the industry going
tillage: not bad on a large scale ie farms 10 to 15 times national average will give a decent return ie about 30000 to 40000 a year
milk:best of the lot but an almost closed shop ,setup up costs from scratch are beyond belief
pigs:know a few medium to large pig farmers and wouldnt take a cheque from them for a fiver!!
by the way op what "unsubsidised" industry do you work in ?maybe for a large americian corp. with ida grants and low tax
maybe a civil service or gov. job with days in lieu and privelige days
how about the ifsc with its tax breaks
maybe its a bank with its bailout rescue plan
if you can show me an industry or sector that has NEVER been directly or indirectly supported then maybe you have a point

Dyr

dont you worry, my job is reliant on private fee's and subscriptions. And if we loose them what we'll get is the dole not cushy subventions to keep unprofitable businesses going just because the govt is scared we'll drive some tractors up kildare street. :pac:

brianthebard

ShooterSF wrote: »

First line in the OP's post. Didnt see it disputed in 3 pages either.

It wasn't disputed because that line doesn't exist in the OP. You are the first person to suggest there are farmers who aren't working when they could be. The op said there were people in factories temporarily out of work-I suggest you read that first post again.

paddysdream

ah so you have the dole to fall back on
i dont have that despite paying a higher rate of prsi and not having a paye tax allowance!!
so , you can fail in the sure and certain knowledge that my tax will subsidise you

still havent told us what it is you do :could it be because it "might" be supported