Proposed Eastern Bridge at the Riverside (mod warning, #137)

redarmyblues

The planning hearing on this project has reopened today in the Clarion. The residents group in the area won a judical review to have the process reopened to examine the implications of noise generated by the road on the local environment.

I think it is obvious the bridge design is ludicrous, the plan for the southern approach ridiculous, the effect on the community disastrous, that if this project is built it will be an act of unforgivable vandalism to the the most attractive area in Sligo by a self serving, unelected coterie of technocrats. It is ironic that these sensitive souls who are unable to attend Corpo meetings lest they face criticism form Councillors are themselves so insensitive to other people and the environment

If there must be an eastern river crossing I believe that this area of town is so very much worth preserving that it ought to take the form of a tunnel. Until that happens reopen O Connell St

If you ask yourself why this bridge at this location, then examine the plans, I think the roundabout without exits on the northern side goes a long way to answering that question.

dardevle

you would think that there would have been some lessons
learned from the hughes bridge/inner relief road mess!. where some one
would stand up and say -hold on we made a mess of the last bridge
and road system lets have some vision and forethought on this
project- but no its the same sh**e over again... we'll locate the
bridge between two residential areas with ageing populations and
direct upwards of 20,000 vehicles into these areas because its the least expensive option(so they say), and what of the future?when development leads to the need for a motorway and it has to link up with the only bridge on the eastern side of town. what will that lead to?
an eastern inner relief road!!!

the option that locates the bridge further to the east is the better one imo, it would serve an eastern bypass much better and also have a large
element of futureproofing in its placement. the only thing it won't have is a select few speculators that will benefit from cpo's and the rising value of a small island of development land that will be served by this bridge.

Mint Sauce

redarmyblues wrote: »

If you ask yourself why this bridge at this location, then examine the plans, I think the roundabout without exits on the northern side goes a long way to answering that question.

any links to these plans

redarmyblues

There was a link to the EIS on the Corpos and/or Councils site. These seem to have been removed. In fact there is little or no obvious information on the project on either site, another example of the complete contempt local officials have for the citizens they purport to serve.
The last news is for the CPOs
http://www.sligoborough.ie/News/Name,8159,en.html

Some interesting names on this cpo list for Rathquarter just north of the river where the bridge will land including well known and erm..... influential local developers.

6980 1012-08 Rathquarter Sligo North Land Raymond T & Eileen Monahan,
“Rossaville”,
Ballincar,
Co. Sligo. None Owner

6 15570 1012-08 Rathquarter Sligo North Land Kevinsfort Limited,
1, O’Connell Street,
Sligo,
Co. Sligo. None

dardevle

anybody know the names behind "aselle ltd"?

searched but can't find much info.

redarmyblues

dardevle wrote: »

anybody know the names behind "aselle ltd"?

searched but can't find much info.[/quot

Given the address I would suspect that it might be Tom Ford and Shane Flanagan of GHQ, but it as just as likely that is one of GHQs clients. Hubert McMenamin is probably from Mcmenamin Homes.

The lands owned by the parties above will not be served to my knowledge by the mysterious roundabout at Rathquarter.

I am taken aback at the lack of interest in the biggest infra structural project now proposed for Sligo. I should have called it 'Major English Supermarket comes to Sligo"

TequilaMockingBird

A supermarket you say...?

darealtulip

so they building the bridge so when can go quicker to that supermarket?

dardevle

[I am taken aback at the lack of interest in the biggest infra structural project now proposed for Sligo. I should have called it 'Major English Supermarket comes to Sligo"[/quote]


most people would rather have a good moan about it
after the fact, ala"who voted for this shower-the country is fcuked
did'nt they see the recession coming like EVERYONE else..if i'd only known before hand i would never have...blah....blah

the importance of this construction/destruction should be
realised by all...it will only be done once,the people of sligo
deserve that it be done right,not cheaply nor quickly or convieniently
just to pander to a few, as we all will have to live with the
consequences in the future.

redarmyblues

dardevle wrote: »

[I am taken aback at the lack of interest in the biggest infra structural project now proposed for Sligo. I should have called it 'Major English Supermarket comes to Sligo"

most people would rather have a good moan about it
after the fact, ala"who voted for this shower-the country is fcuked
did'nt they see the recession coming like EVERYONE else..if i'd only known before hand i would never have...blah....blah

the importance of this construction/destruction should be
realised by all...it will only be done once,the people of sligo
deserve that it be done right,not cheaply nor quickly or convieniently
just to pander to a few, as we all will have to live with the
consequences in the future.[/quote]

Hear Hear.

WE are citizens not consumers.

jimmmy

redarmyblues wrote: »

I think it is obvious the bridge design is ludicrous, the plan for the southern approach ridiculous, the effect on the community disastrous, that if this project is built it will be an act of unforgivable vandalism to the the most attractive area in Sligo by a self serving, unelected coterie of technocrats. It is ironic that these sensitive souls who are unable to attend Corpo meetings lest they face criticism form Councillors are themselves so insensitive to other people and the environment

I agree. Its a very scenic and residential area of the town. The population of the n.w. would be better served probably by a proper bypass around Sligo...I think there are plans for it down through Outfield / Finisklin + out near Cartron. Nothing will get built for a long long time now with the recession I suppose.

GG66

I agree, this area should be treated with more sensitivity .. How would someone get behind and support this campaign if they wanted to?

I Don't mean to hijack your thread but this is related... stay with me.

There is an equally serious environmental disaster in the pipeline for Sligo.

Over a number of years, A few developers have bought all the land between Carraroe Retail Park and Tonaphubble (no need to name anyone). The land traverses right across Cairns Hill.

There are proposals in to develop the whole landscape with multiple housing estates, 1000's of houses. A new road is proposed by the developers to open the land up for development, there is no strategic purpose for the road. Developers will pay for it...

Aside form the fact that this is an elevated site which will be visible from anywhere approaching Sligo from the South (picture the Retail Park from the Sligo approach Road and then picture the whole hillside above it covered in housing estates) there is a more significant issue. For those of you who may not be aware... Cairns Hill, Knocknarae and Carrowmore are all part of the same archaelogical landscape. They have interrelated monuments. Cairns Hill is just as important as the other 2. Who would dream of allowing the other 2 be developedr? Yet Cairns Hill is being ignored ... as this land has been zoned for development..

Okay so it's in the planning process and there is time to object and there will be some objections but nothing on the scale that there should be...

Usually no one wants to get involved unless it directly affects them... People are short of time (me included), disillusioned with the process, feel it won't change anything.

So what does it take to actually get people of Sligo interested or involved in any of the above two mentioned local issues?

Is anyone else sick of Sligo and the surrounding environment being "designed" by developers as opposed to the needs of the community?

Does anyone care?

Or are we to rely on a few posts on Boards that go nowhere...?

This is an open & serious question ... anyone on here want to move these issues into the real world?

dardevle

the first step is always the toughest...nobody wants
to be accused of standing in the way of "progress" so if its not
happening in there own backyard then they think themselves lucky
and keep quiet-this is an attitude that planners and developers
feed on(imo)
like you have stated its a much bigger issue and instead of the
residents of riverside or cairns hill struggling to be heard individually it would be so much better if people with a common purpose stood together so that the planners would have to take notice.(i can recall recent campaigns for the fairgreen and mitchell curley park and the experience that those campaigners could bring to this effort).

for myself i will be in attendance at the hearing in the clarion tomorrow morning in an effort to make elected officials take notice.

redarmyblues

The decision for the eastern bridge was made by and is being implemented by unelected technocrats. None of them as far as I know come from Sligo. The Corpo Councillors have no say in the matter.

Cairns Hill has been despoiled already and I have seen the roads indicated on develpment maps for the area, they scarcely seem credible given its topography and importance in heritage. Consider the development at St Angelas College, it arrived unannounced and remains mostly empty. The people who brought you the mid block route now plan to drive a similar eastern relief road from Carraroe, via Pearse rd, Cemetery rd, the Racecourse, Doorly park , The Iconic Parabola , to Ballinode.

There local planning departments seem to be motivated entirely by a desire to destroy the best in the local environment and they will be relying on the local population remaining complicit by their silence in order to further their vandalism.

If I could sell my house now I would leave Sligo.

dardevle

in my view its too simplistic to say that councillors of the bourough,
who were elected to represent the people,have no say in the matter.
if the full weight(not lip service) of the elected representatives were to fall in behind the campaign, it may make these planners sit up and take notice of what the people want -- not what they want to impose on the people.

GG66

dardevle, good on you for going to that. Post back on how it goes if you can..

I agree that different communities need to come together on common causes, otherwise campaigns can be seen as a "Not in My back Yard attitude". Larger numbers will certainly draw attention to these things and make it more difficult for developers to have their way unopposed.

Councillors are not supposed to have any sway in planning decisions, yet if you look at a lot of individual planning submission you will notice that often Councillor's have made representations on their behalf ... and I know it has helped.

With regard to Cairns Hill in particular, I know that a certain Councillor has attended meetings with developers and planning officials (read into that what you will what his influence is).

redarmyblues, agreed it has been despoiled already and this will be used as a reason to allow further development. i.e the attitude being There are estates there already so whats the problems building more. The retail park at Carraroe also takes significantly from the views from carrowmore to Cairns Hill and vice versa.

To say that development of Cairns hill will hot happen due to its heritage unfortunately isn't holding true. Cairns Hill plans have been in motion for a number of years and land has changed hands for millions in the last few years.

The "proposed" roadway across Cairns Hill was in a previous Environs development plan (SEDP) and the land is zoned for development. A Planning application for the area was previously approved by Sligo Co. Co. and appealed to an Board Pleanala. The inspectors report indicated he could see no objection to it. BP declined to accept his recommendation on the grounds that the road route was not agreed (not all landowners had agreed to it, this is changing). There was no mention of heritage :eek:

A slightly alternative route was proposed and was included in the most recent draft of the SEDP. AFAIK this has yet to be voted on. This is where Councillors have influence.. They have to vote it through....

There will be a local campaign against this... come to the Hazelwood Rooom, Sligo Park on Tuesday at 8PM if interested. Bring friends :-)

jimmmy

GG66 wrote: »

I agree, this area should be treated with more sensitivity .. How would someone get behind and support this campaign if they wanted to?

I Don't mean to hijack your thread but this is related... stay with me.

There is an equally serious environmental disaster in the pipeline for Sligo.

Over a number of years, A few developers have bought all the land between Carraroe Retail Park and Tonaphubble (no need to name anyone). The land traverses right across Cairns Hill.

There are proposals in to develop the whole landscape with multiple housing estates, 1000's of houses. A new road is proposed by the developers to open the land up for development, there is no strategic purpose for the road. Developers will pay for it...

Aside form the fact that this is an elevated site which will be visible from anywhere approaching Sligo from the South (picture the Retail Park from the Sligo approach Road and then picture the whole hillside above it covered in housing estates) there is a more significant issue. For those of you who may not be aware... Cairns Hill, Knocknarae and Carrowmore are all part of the same archaelogical landscape. They have interrelated monuments. Cairns Hill is just as important as the other 2. Who would dream of allowing the other 2 be developedr? Yet Cairns Hill is being ignored ... as this land has been zoned for development..

Okay so it's in the planning process and there is time to object and there will be some objections but nothing on the scale that there should be...

Usually no one wants to get involved unless it directly affects them... People are short of time (me included), disillusioned with the process, feel it won't change anything.

So what does it take to actually get people of Sligo interested or involved in any of the above two mentioned local issues?

Is anyone else sick of Sligo and the surrounding environment being "designed" by developers as opposed to the needs of the community?

Does anyone care?

Or are we to rely on a few posts on Boards that go nowhere...?

This is an open & serious question ... anyone on here want to move these issues into the real world?

I agree 100% with you. Sligo should develop from the centre out ; there are plenty of re-development sites within half a mile or a mile of the town centre, without going 2 or 3 miles out or further. We should all be looking at what is environmentally friendly and sustainable, given the public transport hub for the region ( train/bus station etc ) is in Sligo. It does not make sense to have encouraged people from Sligo to move to commuter villages like Collaney( with section 23 tax incentives etc ) , and then have them using fossil fuel gas guzzlers to get to work / shops / entertainment. As you correctly say however, how do we move these issues into the real world ?

GG66

jimmmy wrote: »

I agree 100% with you. Sligo should develop from the centre out ; there are plenty of re-development sites within half a mile or a mile of the town centre, without going 2 or 3 miles out or further. We should all be looking at what is environmentally friendly and sustainable, given the public transport hub for the region ( train/bus station etc ) is in Sligo. It does not make sense to have encouraged people from Sligo to move to commuter villages like Collaney( with section 23 tax incentives etc ) , and then have them using fossil fuel gas guzzlers to get to work / shops / entertainment. As you correctly say however, how do we move these issues into the real world ?

Well it's promising that other people on here have an interest an a desire for positive change..

The Sligo Environs plan seems quite contradictory in places. I'm no expert on it but they do say that they need to encourage people to live in the town centre as the population of the town is decreasing, yet they encourage development outside it, Carraroe (Shane Filan's development that bought off objections from the local school by donating a pittance of €400k.)

They also speak of preserving the green belt. Looking at their maps, the green belt in in actual fact the countryside surrounding the town and they keep pushing it further out with development.

As for bringing it into the real world there are groups who campaign against these issues, but the nature of a campaign is that you are from the beginning fighting something that has momentum and force behind it.

dardevle said he was going to the Clarion this morning in relation to eastern bypass. I myself will be going to a meeting about the Cairns Hill development on Tuesday. So it is possible to get invovled. However we touched on this earlier, these different action groups needs to come together and support each other on common issues.. The larger the numbers, the more voices etc,,

redarmyblues

I was at the Clarion today to witness an impassioned performance by leader of the local residents, Mr. Eugene McGloin. He was highly effective in his presentation which led to moments of high farce when he demonstrated by use of the Borough Councils own Documents that Housing (Hazel View I think) recently built by and owned by Sligo Borough Council do not appear in and are not comprehended by the Environmental Impact Statement. The space where the houses are is shown as a green space in the EIS. These houses appear to be those most vunerable to the proposed development, being located 10m from a roundabout that will carry 20,000 vehicles a day.

You could not make it up, you really couldn't.

The SBC team ducked for cover, pulled shapes, hid under the table, flicked through documents, made notes, huddled together while their weasely Solicitor started to pull out his remaining hair.

You would have to assume that so grave and glaring an omission ought to invalidate the entire EIS in that it would tend to undermine confidence in the rest of the document. What trust would you have in a house survey that neglected to mention a hole in the roof? I suspect that SBC inclinations would be to persevere with the scheme, but that An Bord Pleanala may send them back to the drawing board. The residents have already been successful in the High Court and you would have to suppose that a decision by An Bord Pleanala to allow the scheme would be exposed to further court proceedings.

I was surprised neither An Taisce or an environmental group given the Bridges position in relation to the Lough Gill special Area of Conservation, were represented at the hearing, though I was informed by a cynical individual at the bar that “The Riverside is where An Taisce members bring their Dogs to Sh1t”.

dardevle

came away from todays hearing feeling cautiously
optimistic that the residents have done enough to sway abp
into at least sending the sbc back to the drawing board.


i would agree that the presentation by eugene was the highlight of the proceedings,he was certainly passionate without being overly emotional
(which can sometimes be a drawback in the context of such a structured proceedings)it was fortunate to have someone of his experience to anchor
the cause.it was also good to see the various councillors in attendance(bree,macmanus and mcloughlin for sure maybe others).


The mood from the sbc delegation was bordering on hostile today(imo)
and i can only take it that was because they were rattled by a very strong case being built against their plans.

as eugene mcgloin said in his presentation in relation to the glaring omission that redarmy has alluded to:

if this were a court of law i'm confident that the judge would have no problem in throwing the case out!

GG66

Thank you both for posting back. Couldn't make it myself, too busy putting in a last minute submission on a Cairns Hill development between a hectic day at work.

It does sound farcical that their EIS could be so obviously wrong. And to think that if it wasn't for these residents admirable stance, the whole thing would have gone through unquestioned by everyone else...

What's the next step in this? Are there further presentations?

redarmyblues

The inspector will make his recommendation to An Bord Pleanala, and the Bord will then make a decision accepting or rejecting his report as they see fit.

The SBC side seem to hold the residents in complete contempt, the project appears to have been designed in order to maximise the negative effect on the local community. It also emerged they are also in defiance of an instruction from an Bord Pleannala to investigate the option of crossing the river further to the east so that it could form part of a future eastern bypass. The EIS has other flaws in it, for example no sound measurements were made for houses on Garavogue Hill in direct line of sight of the bridge.

GG66

I have no facts to back this up but I expect the crossing point was decided by developers and not for any other reason.. This is how a lot of Sligo Town planning seems to go. Developers own the land and do a deal with the Council... either we'll build a road or we'll swap you this land for land elsewhere.. Did anything such as this come to light during the campaign?

redarmyblues

The Irish planning system is developer led. It is hard to understand the positioning of this bridge in any other terms.

In this case the CPO's name several developers as land owners on the north side of the river. I have provided a link earlier in the thread, the planners have thoughtfully provided a roundabout on the north bank to make the development job easier.

GG66

redarmyblues wrote: »

The Irish planning system is developer led. It is hard to understand the positioning of this bridge in any other terms.

In this case the CPO's name several developers as land owners on the north side of the river. I have provided a link earlier in the thread, the planners have thoughtfully provided a roundabout on the north bank to make the development job easier.

Ok, thanks spotted that.

Are there any proposed alternative routes for an eastern bypass?
Are there any maps available online I can check out?

thanks

redarmyblues

There was a link to the EIS on one or both of the local authority websites. They seem to have been taken down, in line with the policy of keeping the public in the dark as far as possible.

GG66

:rolleyes: it must have been pretty embarrassing then ... looked on the site but nothing

dardevle

GG66-if you could post and let us know how things are going in relation to
development plans and objection campaigns in the cairns hill area it would be appreciated,

at some time in the future the proposed eastern bridge will be linked to an eastern bypass(or eastern inner relief road as the planners would have it),
and since information on these issues always seems to be difficult for the man in the street to come by, anything that can be of benefit should be shared.

GG66

went to the meeting this evening and there will be objections from local residents. This development is massive and goes within 75 metres of one of the Cairns. It contains an outline of the road included in the SEDP and this development is only part of the overall developers plan for Cairns Hill.

You can view the plans online.. are you ready to jump through some hoops?

First you need Internet explorer (firefox doesn't work)

Then you need to download this plugin to view scanned documents http://www.celartem.com/en/download/djvu.asp

Once you have that check out Planning application details ref: 08886 or follow this link to the details http://tinyurl.com/6eypbm

You can view scanned files including maps although its hard to make out from these what the overall scale of things is

If you want to add you name to a submission (objection) PM me or reply here and I'll put you in touch. The more names on it the merrier .

This is another development on the tonnaphubble ( race course) side of Cairns Hill which also has houses planned up the north side. Deadline for submissions has passed but some were submitted.

http://tinyurl.com/6gd9x3

redarmyblues

In relation to GG66s posts I believe the issues to be the same.

Related Link: http://www.sligoweekender.ie/news/story/?trs=mhojaugbmh...=news

It appears to be the opinion of senior Local government Officials that it is a tragedy that a prime piece of land like Sligo Racecourse so close to the the centre of Sligo remains outside of the hands of developers. Obviously there is no shortage of building land around Sligo, the difficultly is that most of this land is owned by private persons who are not particularly disposed to enriching other private individuals at their own expense ,step forward the people of Sligo, who happen to come to own, due to the foresight of the City Fathers in the 1940s a large section of green space in Cleveragh including the Racecourse, which is (stay with me ) to be linked via a brand new road and bridge to other prime development lands north of the river. Meanwhile local builders clap themselves on the back as they anticipate the return of the Tiger next year or the year after that.

The 1.3m unwanted and unneeded footbridge from Connollys pub to the glasshouse is tuppence happenny and sheer genius compared to this racket.

On a brighter note our bungling bureaucrats have apparently briefed their friends in the local meeja that it may take until 2009 to get a decision on the bridge, due to red tape blah blah blah.

The fact is they underestimated the residents and they have been caught cock in hand, eyes closed, trousers down.

The bad news is stupidity never sleeps.

GG66

Thanks for the link .. that was March 08. Know anything more about this or who People First are?