Do Green Flashing Lights Do the Same as Blue?

Random

those car ambulance things we see more and more now with the green flashing lights. Do these guys have the same immunity to traffic laws that regular blue flashing light ambulances have?

I just seen a garda car doing what appeared to be escorting one, so this jeans me toward a no. But interested to know for sure.

Thanks

maglite

Its a knock off from brittish practice, I'm not aware of them having any power here

BeardyGit

There's absolutely no provision for a green beacon in the statute book, except under the provision to prosecute for display of a flashing light that's not otherwise listed/approved etc. etc....words to that effect anyway.

Anyone who heeds one does so out of courtesy, and nothing more. Unfortunately.

enda1

Gil_Dub wrote: »

There's absolutely no provision for a green beacon in the statute book, except under the provision to prosecute for display of a flashing light that's not otherwise listed/approved etc. etc....words to that effect anyway.

Anyone who heeds one does so out of courtesy, and nothing more. Unfortunately.

Why unfortunately?

hobochris

enda1 wrote: »

Why unfortunately?

because they are normally used by doctors rushing to help someone. I think in the uk it gives them right of way at non signaled junctions, but that's about it.

Really they should send these doctors off on an advanced driving course and give them a blue cherry light. so they can act like an ambulance.

enda1

hobochris wrote: »

because they are normally used by doctors rushing to help someone. I think in the uk it gives them right of way at non signaled junctions, but that's about it.

Really they should send these doctors off on an advanced driving course and give them a blue cherry light. so they can act like an ambulance.

Just kinda reminds me og Homer's "Its OK, I'm a teacher". Lots of people have important jobs, but not all are giving flashing lights. If someone is in enough need for emergency services then I guess they can ring an ambulance.

dredre

enda1 wrote: »

Just kinda reminds me og Homer's "Its OK, I'm a teacher". Lots of people have important jobs, but not all are giving flashing lights. If someone is in enough need for emergency services then I guess they can ring an ambulance.

I agree, however, there are times when a Dr will also be needed and increasingly it is the Dr who is first on scene, especially in rural areas.

deadwood

I see SouthDoc, NoWDoc and others have these lights. As one of the posters above said, they are a courtesy. In time, people will recognise them as medical responders, andcallow them pass etc.

They employ drivers who receive no specefic training though I may be corrected on this.

andrewh5

hobochris wrote: »

because they are normally used by doctors rushing to help someone. I think in the uk it gives them right of way at non signaled junctions, but that's about it.

Really they should send these doctors off on an advanced driving course and give them a blue cherry light. so they can act like an ambulance.

In the UK they have to complete the Police Class 1 traffic course before they are allowed to have the light.

Most garda drivers here couldn't even complete the basic UK police drivers course.

hobochris

enda1 wrote: »

Just kinda reminds me og Homer's "Its OK, I'm a teacher". Lots of people have important jobs, but not all are giving flashing lights. If someone is in enough need for emergency services then I guess they can ring an ambulance.

But it would be far better to have a doctor their then a paramedic(that is taking orders over the phone/radio from a doctor).I think what should happen is they are all trained and given a light but they should have to radio/phone in to get permission from the emergency control center to use it so that it is not abused.

Also I herd(not sure if this is true or not) that large number of gard's driving garda vehicles have had no advanced driving training(I.e. just have standard B licences) and a sargent in their station signs a waiver to allow them to take a garda vehicle out on their shift without prior special training. Can anyone in the gard's shed some light on this rumour?

BeardyGit

enda1 wrote: »

Just kinda reminds me og Homer's "Its OK, I'm a teacher". Lots of people have important jobs, but not all are giving flashing lights. If someone is in enough need for emergency services then I guess they can ring an ambulance.

I'm guessing you live in an urban setting Enda. Could be wrong of course, but I've based that guess on your likely perception of how long it takes to get an ambulance.... I've waited an hour for an ambulance to arrive at an accident up in Wicklow. Now, if a doctor could travel from somewhere closer by and start about the business of looking after whoever's hurt, would it not be a good idea to give them a means to identify themselves on the road as they go?

I travel to and fro on rural roads every day where there are opportunities for vehicles to pull in and let others pass by safely. Trucks in particular move very slowly and lead to measurable delays in my journey time. That's fine of course, as I'm usually not in a hurry. But if I were a medical professional (I'm not talking about amateurs/first aiders) on my way to an incident, wouldn't it be great if I had the means to let those travelling in front of me in their slow moving vehicles know this?

It doesn't mean those driving with greens would become wreckless, speeding around and overtaking anything they had half a chance of passing out. It would simply serve as an indicator to the rest of us that it's a medical pro going to someones aid.... Leave the same laws to apply to their driving as anyone else, but allow the rest of us to make a decision to move out of their way when it's convenient, instead of holding them up in a traffic queue as if it's just another Joe on his way home from the office....

Could be that there's a defib and a responder in the car behind you, and that you *could* let them pass if you knew they were waiting to....and that *could* make a difference and save a life.

Hence the "unfortunately".

deadwood

andrewh5 wrote: »

Most garda drivers here couldn't even complete the basic UK police drivers course.

Qualify this remark. You're obviously an expert.

hobochris wrote: »

Also I herd(not sure if this is true or not) that large number of gard's driving garda vehicles have had no advanced driving training(I.e. just have standard B licences) and a sargent in their station signs a waiver to allow them to take a garda vehicle out on their shift without prior special training. Can anyone in the gard's shed some light on this rumour?

This is the barstool version.

You're right to an extent, though. Gardai can get permission from a Divisional Officer (Chief Superintendent) to drive cars up to a certain engine size. There is a long waiting list for driving courses. This matter has been discussed several times before.

Sierra Oscar

I am guessing they only have the lights, no siren?

petergfiffin

If the purpose of having a flashing light is to get them to emergencies quicker and will allow them to go through red lights, go over the speed limit etc then why not just be done with it and give them a blue light & siren?? Lets just keep it simple, if it's blue and flashing get out of the way, anything else just treat it the same as any other

Obviously there should be a register of vehicles & drivers who are allowed do it and the driver should be qualified as an advanced driver (or whatever the equivolen its) and if that means they (or their company) have to pay to do a course in England or wherever then so be it.

Just out of interest I'd wonder what their insurance company would have to say about these lights if it means the person is more likely to be driving at high speed

Finally....surely if there's that much of a backlog for Garda driving courses (which I don't doubt) there's a serious business opportunity for a couple of ex-Garda/Police drivers to provide out-sourced courses to the GS??

deadwood

petergfiffin wrote: »

Finally....surely if there's that much of a backlog for Garda driving courses (which I don't doubt) there's a serious business opportunity for a couple of ex-Garda/Police drivers to provide out-sourced courses to the GS??

There are private companies doing this sort of driving course.
There would be a legal and road safety nightmare, though, to allow these people to exceed speed limits.

Good defensive driving is enough in most circumstances. If other road users give E.S. vehicles a bit of room, this is usually enough to get you to scene quickly and safely. All-out, uninterrupted speed will only make up time over long distances really.

Eru

deadwood wrote: »

There are private companies doing this sort of driving course.
There would be a legal and road safety nightmare, though, to allow these people to exceed speed limits.

Good defensive driving is enough in most circumstances. If other road users give E.S. vehicles a bit of room, this is usually enough to get you to scene quickly and safely. All-out, uninterrupted speed will only make up time over long distances really.

But my chips will get cold

deadwood

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

But my chips will get cold

I said "in most circumstances", Karl!

Tango Alpha 51

city4life wrote: »

i wouldnt mind an aul job there on rest days driving a doctor around....for emergencies like....i see in county cork alone two doctors have their own vehicles fitted with blue lights and sirens....a discovery and volvo...another marked passat around too. they have been told they are not emergency vehicles and have to obey the rta but we'r to give them as much assistance as possisble....

with regard to southdoc and their green lights, they are windy about using them anyway. very rarely turn them on, even i was escorting one in the van one day, giving it socks and yer man wouldn't turn on his lights even for the traffic...made it a bit dangerous really

You sure about the marked passat?. The only reason i ask is that it has hse markings on it, the radio was supplied by the NAS & the car is dispatched by ambulance control in cork city. The Disco & Volvo whilst technically unmarked are also equipped with comms equipment supplied by the NAS & are also dispatched by ambulance control

Relevant

Don't the "private ambulances" have the green lights too?

Tango Alpha 51

Know the two doctors in question personally. The gp with the Disco used to have a volvo esate before he changed. The idea behind the marked passat is to clearly identify it as a doctor as opposed to the laguna & the jeeps we have in the service. Very valuable resources to have at the scene of a bad call.

Check out www.mobetronics.com & go into their gallery page. You'll see some of the cars that they've done lately as I can't seem to get the hang of posting pictures

andrewh5

deadwood wrote: »

Qualify this remark. You're obviously an expert.

As someone who was taught to drive by a UK Class 1 Police driver I can safely say that the majority of gardai wouldn't pass the UK class 1 test. I have seen atrocious driving standards displayed by garda drivers.

Mind you, I expect nothing less really, given that the general standard of driving here is appalling. I have driven in many countries and none have been as bad as here.

timmywex

In fairness, some garda drivers are very high standard, some have done van/car/pusuit/motorcycle training for no real reason, while others seem to have nothing but the ordinary b license!

deadwood

andrewh5 wrote: »

As someone who was taught to drive by a UK Class 1 Police driver I can safely say that the majority of gardai wouldn't pass the UK class 1 test. I have seen atrocious driving standards displayed by garda drivers.

My mother taught me to drive, and she was a doctor. I'm no expert in medicine, though!

Eru

andrewh5 wrote: »

As someone who was taught to drive by a UK Class 1 Police driver I can safely say that the majority of gardai wouldn't pass the UK class 1 test. I have seen atrocious driving standards displayed by garda drivers.

Mind you, I expect nothing less really, given that the general standard of driving here is appalling. I have driven in many countries and none have been as bad as here.

Ah here, where have you driven? My partners a dirty foreigner and she cant believe how good the Irish are.

Also as stated, who cares what your teacher did. Are we supposed to believe he showed you police driving to pass your basic driving test? come on Thats a crazy statement to make, juding other peoples driving because "I know a guy who...."

donvito99

There was a Mercedes Vito private ambo with green lights at that murder scene in Blanch. It was using them.

Not in any emergency though, just the fact that its a Merc.

donvito99

andrewh5 wrote: »

As someone who was taught to drive by a UK Class 1 Police driver I can safely say that the majority of gardai wouldn't pass the UK class 1 test. I have seen atrocious driving standards displayed by garda drivers.

Mind you, I expect nothing less really, given that the general standard of driving here is appalling. I have driven in many countries and none have been as bad as here.

Ever been to Turkey, Spain, Italy, Egypt, France, Portugal, Morocco, Cork... (Dis regard the last one)

maglite

bring ti a step closer france?

Are you talking about the merc thats used for the dead people?

donvito99

maglite wrote: »

bring ti a step closer france?

Are you talking about the merc thats used for the dead people?

Would they not use them as LIVING patient transport aswell?

angelfire9

andrewh5 wrote: »

As someone who was taught to drive by a UK Class 1 Police driver I can safely say that the majority of gardai wouldn't pass the UK class 1 test. I have seen atrocious driving standards displayed by garda drivers.

Mind you, I expect nothing less really, given that the general standard of driving here is appalling. I have driven in many countries and none have been as bad as here.

I have to say i've driven in Paris, Frankfurt and Rome and their driving is 100 times worse than the Irish
Having said that i have done a good few driving courses, the Hibernian Ignition course (to reduce insurance costs), advance defensive driving (to reduce company insurance costs) and an Irish School of Motoring Advanced course (which i have to say i only did to annoy people!) see links below:

http://www.ism.ie/My_Driver_Training/Become_An_Advanced_Driver.htm
http://www.advanceddefensivedriving.ie/index-page3.html

djtechnics1210

andrewh5 wrote: »

As someone who was taught to drive by a UK Class 1 Police driver I can safely say that the majority of gardai wouldn't pass the UK class 1 test. I have seen atrocious driving standards displayed by garda drivers.

Mind you, I expect nothing less really, given that the general standard of driving here is appalling. I have driven in many countries and none have been as bad as here.

I know of a garda member that was in police in England before joining AGS and had the police advanced driving course done in England and then completed the standard AGS driving course here. I have been in car with him and with a member of AGS that has AGS advanced car course done. I felt the AGS advanced driver was much better than the member with the English Advanced car course done. Just my opinion

metman

andrewh5 wrote: »

As someone who was taught to drive by a UK Class 1 Police driver I can safely say that the majority of gardai wouldn't pass the UK class 1 test. I have seen atrocious driving standards displayed by garda drivers.

I take it your training was as a civilian doing an IAM course? If this is the case then I suggest you wind your neck in. IAM courses fall far below class 1 training, despite your trainer being 'ex-class 1'. As someone who is a serving officer doing response work (with initial pursuit liability) I can attest that your 'ex-class 1 instructor' is just that, ex. What might surprise you is that the Garda advanced driver training is the same as UK Police driver training.

andrewh5

metman wrote: »

I take it your training was as a civilian doing an IAM course? If this is the case then I suggest you wind your neck in. IAM courses fall far below class 1 training, despite your trainer being 'ex-class 1'. As someone who is a serving officer doing response work (with initial pursuit liability) I can attest that your 'ex-class 1 instructor' is just that, ex. What might surprise you is that the Garda advanced driver training is the same as UK Police driver training.

Any numpty that suggests Gardai wouldn't pass UK driving assessments is just that, a numpty.

No it wasn't. He was a serving class 1 driver.
Well, the gardai I have seen driving around are bloody atrocious drivers so either they haven't done advanced training the failed it. Given that it is highly rare to see a Traffic Corps member one has to judge ordinary gardai.

andrewh5

donvito99 wrote: »

Ever been to Turkey, Spain, Italy, Egypt, France, Portugal, Morocco, Cork... (Dis regard the last one)

Germany (East and West as was), France, Belgium, Holland, Italy, Spain, Cyprus (north & south) USA.

I stand by what I have said. The general standard of driving here is appalling:

• Taking ages to pull off from lights when at the front of the queue.
• Not signalling at roundabouts.
• Going all the way around roundabouts in the left hand lane.
• Accelerating away from a standstill at less than walking pace.
• Failure to indicate generally.
• Using front fog lights all the time (totally illegal).

There are more such as no lane discipline on dual carriageways & motorways and failure to make progress on the above.

Eru

andrewh5 wrote: »

Germany (East and West as was), France, Belgium, Holland, Italy, Spain, Cyprus (north & south) USA.

I stand by what I have said. The general standard of driving here is appalling:

• Taking ages to pull off from lights when at the front of the queue.
• Not signalling at roundabouts.
• Going all the way around roundabouts in the left hand lane.
• Accelerating away from a standstill at less than walking pace.
• Failure to indicate generally.
• Using front fog lights all the time (totally illegal).

There are more such as no lane discipline on dual carriageways & motorways and failure to make progress on the above.

Yep only the Irish do these things all right. Never in my life have I driven abroad and had someone fail to indicate or use a roundabout properly. Mind you when im in Spain my in laws hand me the keys so they dont share your view. Also in Italy, they dont understand parking, lights and ignore the police. Cyprus? I believe they were ranked one of the worst in the world.

However in relation to taking off, thats annoying but people drive vehicles will less power than you possible and not taking off like a jet fighter is not bad driving, its careful and theres a lot of people driving in Ireland that arent actually on Irish licenses.

You also need to stop refering to your instructor. Its an incredible stupid comment. My kickboxing teacher is a 4 time world champion, but guess what? I aint getting close to that.

Evidently your perfect.

deadwood

andrewh5 wrote: »

Germany (East and West as was), France, Belgium, Holland, Italy, Spain, Cyprus (north & south) USA.


I stand by what I have said. The general standard of driving here is appalling:

• Taking ages to pull off from lights when at the front of the queue.
• Not signalling at roundabouts.
• Going all the way around roundabouts in the left hand lane.
• Accelerating away from a standstill at less than walking pace.
• Failure to indicate generally.
• Using front fog lights all the time (totally illegal).

There are more such as no lane discipline on dual carriageways & motorways and failure to make progress on the above.

Isn't there a nice shiny Motors Forum where these startling new observations would be discussed in objective and original ways?

donvito99

I was in a small town called Cesme in Turkey once and they do not obey traffic lights, indicate, use headlights, drive on he correct side, have up to 9 people in a five seater, crazy stuff.

2001 / 2002 / 2003 / 2004 / 2005 / 2006 / 2007 / 2008 (so far)

411 / 376 / 335 / 374 / 396 / 368 / 338 / 261.

The number of people being killed is actually falling due to the gardai being given greater powers/ equipment/ facilities etc and driver behaviour as regard to speeding and dui.

deadwood

donvito99 wrote: »

The number of people being killed is actually falling due to the gardai being given greater powers/ equipment/ facilities etc and driver behaviour as regard to speeding and dui.

The only reason it has worked is because of revenue collecting, shooting fish in a barrell, hiding behind hedges, unmarked gatsos, incorrect road design and speed limits, not going after real criminals and persecuting the working man.

Well if those are the lengths to which the Gardai are willing to go to save lives, I don't know what this country has come to.

djtechnics1210

andrewh5 wrote: »

Germany (East and West as was), France, Belgium, Holland, Italy, Spain, Cyprus (north & south) USA.

I stand by what I have said. The general standard of driving here is appalling:

• Taking ages to pull off from lights when at the front of the queue.
• Not signalling at roundabouts.
• Going all the way around roundabouts in the left hand lane.
• Accelerating away from a standstill at less than walking pace.
• Failure to indicate generally.
• Using front fog lights all the time (totally illegal).

There are more such as no lane discipline on dual carriageways & motorways and failure to make progress on the above.

What in the name of good g*d does this have to do with "Flashing green lights doing the same as blue lights".

And how does that above list have anything to do with Garda drivers. I have never seen a Garda driver do any of the above stuff and i spend every working day in a patrol car or jeep.

Tango Alpha 51

donvito99 wrote: »

Would they not use them as LIVING patient transport aswell?

Nope. The private "ambulance" in question is only used to carry dead people. They are not part of the statutory emergency ambulance service (HSE or DFB). I read somewhere on this board that it is attached to the coroners office or something like that. All statutory emergency ambulances are blue lights.

Tango Alpha 51

andrewh5 wrote: »

Germany (East and West as was), France, Belgium, Holland, Italy, Spain, Cyprus (north & south) USA.

I stand by what I have said. The general standard of driving here is appalling:

• Taking ages to pull off from lights when at the front of the queue.
• Not signalling at roundabouts.
• Going all the way around roundabouts in the left hand lane.
• Accelerating away from a standstill at less than walking pace.
• Failure to indicate generally.
• Using front fog lights all the time (totally illegal).

There are more such as no lane discipline on dual carriageways & motorways and failure to make progress on the above.

Absolutely no relevance to the original topic!!!

Turner

andrewh5 wrote: »

As someone who was taught to drive by a UK Class 1 Police driver I can safely say that the majority of gardai wouldn't pass the UK class 1 test. I have seen atrocious driving standards displayed by garda drivers.

Pasted from the other locked thread but details of what training the gardai receive.

Just to clear a few things up about the standard of driver training in the gardai. The gardai are trained in many styles of driving listed below.

Standard car and motorcycle course
Advanced car and motorcycle course

Both of which are up to the standard of the UK police drivers and is considered to be the best principles of roadcraft and standard of police driver training in the world.

The gardai also comlete
Jeep, personnell carrier (paddywagon) and HGV courses.
Tactical car course (eru and rsu)
Escort car and motorcycle course

However alot are actually driving on Chief Superintendents permission they are not allowed engage in putsuits. Chief Supt's permission only relates to lower powered patrol cars, no motorcycles/vans/jeeps.

The gardai are not trained in putsuits (eg boxing in cars or ramming cars), although it is not recommended individual gardai can make the decision to do this but be it on their own head. If anything goes wrong they are liable to prosecution. Management will not back you but it may be required to save a life.

G_R

deadwood wrote: »

The only reason it has worked is because of revenue collecting, shooting fish in a barrell, hiding behind hedges, unmarked gatsos, incorrect road design and speed limits, not going after real criminals and persecuting the working man.

Well if those are the lengths to which the Gardai are willing to go to save lives, I don't know what this country has come to.

well whatever they're doing they are dramatically reducing road deaths...i say well done and keep up the good work

TheNog

I think this thread has gone way off topic. Can we please get it back on track or else start a new thread to complain about driving courses or lack of.