Pamela Enitan Izevbekhai

TequilaMockingBird

Gerry Ryan put it well on his show yesterday I thought. He said that the little girls are Irish now. They won't remember Nigeria, they only know Sligo, and an Irish way of life. At this stage in their lives, it is the same as shipping my daughter off to Nigeria to deal with a family who are determined to find her and mutilate her.

Makes me feel sick.

In this case it has gone on too long, the children are settled, it is too cruel to remove them from their lives here. It has gone on so long because Pamela has been given options to take case after case to court, as I, and any other mother fearing for the safety of her daughter would do. It is our countrys failing that the system is so long drawn out, we must in this case, let them continue their childhoods as they know them, and if the law needs to be changed for the future, then do it. We can't use these children as an example to other asylum seekers.

tuppence

Cases like this are a true resolve of our ideals as a nation. What concerns me that in the time of plenty there was already backlash to our immigrant population. Now with scarce resources and rationing more people might start to look around for scapegoats. This woman has rights that we need to honour and the costs of these need to be met. It would be nice if governement showed its humanity with leniency in this situation.

Surely we have to be mindful in all of this not to let a mob mentality prevail. We can learn our lessons from our European neighbours and the rise of groups like the BNP, Combat 18, (the irish been targeted by them) and Jean Marie le pen. Their membership thrives in times like this.

It is going to be tough for us all. We need to pull together. Is it not a measure of our development as a nation if we can uphold our ideals(and build on them), and the rights of our most vulnerable in bad times as well as good?

sorella

This thread has shocked me as I had no idea there was so much racism in Ireland.

Blessings to you who see the truth and have compassion.

Drummerboy08

Hey look, im not racist by any means, and i apologise if i come across that way.

It just angers me to see the taxpayers money being thrown around the courts system when people are struggling to pay bills, rent, loans, whatever it may be. And that is exactly what is happening. There is a lot of uncertainty about jobs at the minute, and on top of the tax we already pay, we have now to pay an extra 1% and in some cases a 200 euro parking levy.

The money that this case has cost will amount up to a massive figure, something that isnt to be laughed at in these hard times. You may say money isnt everything, especially in this case, well tell that to all those who have lost their jobs recently.

It also annoys me to see someone try to undermine the courts system and Irish law by trying to gather a massive public support via websites, meetings, etc. If i murdered someone, but got the whole of my home county to support me, and demand i was let out, how would you feel? I know it is not quite the same thing, but the law is the law, whether you murder someone, or whether a court orders you out of the country.

I really feel sorry for the woman, i do. Something else that i have thought about, why does she have to go back home? Why does she not try a different country, that has a different outlook on these issues?

Again, i do wish her the best of luck, but i believe it is in the best interests of the state to deport her. Otherwise we would have half of Africa knocking on our door. In these times, this country cannot afford to embark on such a humanitarian undertaking.

Xiney

Giving people asylum is never done for the best interest of the state, at least not economically.

It's done for the best interest of the state in terms of morality and humanity.



Saying that too much money has been wasted on the case does nothing to sway me - because I don't feel she should have been made to fight so hard to avoid the torture of her daughters in the first place. THAT would have saved the money.

sorella

Amen.

Incidentally, this was a practice in the UK in Victorian times. Thankfully it was outlawed.

Xiney wrote: »

Giving people asylum is never done for the best interest of the state, at least not economically.

It's done for the best interest of the state in terms of morality and humanity.



Saying that too much money has been wasted on the case does nothing to sway me - because I don't feel she should have been made to fight so hard to avoid the torture of her daughters in the first place. THAT would have saved the money.

sorella

Please, would you tell Pamela that the Sisters are praying for her and the children?

You can reach me through the web site in my CP settings.

Blessings and thanks

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

Gerry Ryan put it well on his show yesterday I thought. He said that the little girls are Irish now. They won't remember Nigeria, they only know Sligo, and an Irish way of life. At this stage in their lives, it is the same as shipping my daughter off to Nigeria to deal with a family who are determined to find her and mutilate her.

Makes me feel sick.

In this case it has gone on too long, the children are settled, it is too cruel to remove them from their lives here. It has gone on so long because Pamela has been given options to take case after case to court, as I, and any other mother fearing for the safety of her daughter would do. It is our countrys failing that the system is so long drawn out, we must in this case, let them continue their childhoods as they know them, and if the law needs to be changed for the future, then do it. We can't use these children as an example to other asylum seekers.

rkeane

Pamela will almost certainly be deported this year.....why? Her story does not add up, she claims to have come via amsterdam .....no record of her ever being there. Yet she had a multi-visit visa for the UK.....how convenient....she came here via the occupied part of the country. Which is why 8 months later, immigration officials intercepted Tony (her husband) travelling in a taxi to Dublin from Belfast.....well why not try if it worked the first time.

She has failed every single stage of the legal process .....I expect her to be out of here asap.

Big_Mac

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

Gerry Ryan put it well on his show yesterday I thought. He said that the little girls are Irish now. They won't remember Nigeria, they only know Sligo, and an Irish way of life. At this stage in their lives, it is the same as shipping my daughter off to Nigeria to deal with a family who are determined to find her and mutilate her.

Gerry Ryan? He's nothing more than an over opinionated crank who could care less about other peoples opinions and uses his oppertunity in the media to futher his own opinions and nothing more

In this case it has gone on too long, the children are settled, it is too cruel to remove them from their lives here. It has gone on so long because Pamela has been given options to take case after case to court, as I, and any other mother fearing for the safety of her daughter would do. It is our countrys failing that the system is so long drawn out, we must in this case, let them continue their childhoods as they know them, and if the law needs to be changed for the future, then do it. We can't use these children as an example to other asylum seekers.

Yes it has gone on too long, and its her own fault. If she accepted the initial ruling in the first place she would have been deported long ago and so her children would not suffer as much upset. Instead she has used them as her barganing chip and continually ignored all rulings that have been made. When she is deported, it will be her own fault that her children will be uprooted from the society that they know.

Xiney wrote: »

Saying that too much money has been wasted on the case does nothing to sway me - because I don't feel she should have been made to fight so hard to avoid the torture of her daughters in the first place. THAT would have saved the money.

Just an opinion though, and devoid of facts or law.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

rkeane

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Exactly....well said

TequilaMockingBird

Big_Mac wrote: »

Gerry Ryan? He's nothing more than an over opinionated crank who could care less about other peoples opinions and uses his oppertunity in the media to futher his own opinions and nothing more

Whatever you think of Gerry Ryan is irrelevant here, the point he made is one I agree with.

Big_Mac wrote: »

Yes it has gone on too long, and its her own fault. If she accepted the initial ruling in the first place she would have been deported long ago and so her children would not suffer as much upset. Instead she has used them as her barganing chip and continually ignored all rulings that have been made. When she is deported, it will be her own fault that her children will be uprooted from the society that they know.

So Big Mac, if you felt your baby was in danger, would you not do everything in your power to make her safe? Of course you would, which is just what Pamela is doing. She has those options, again, why on earth should she be scorned for using them? If you don't like the law, campaign to have it changed, but don't imply she is wrong to avail of it.

ParkRunner

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

So Big Mac, if you felt your baby was in danger, would you not do everything in your power to make her safe? Of course you would, which is just what Pamela is doing. She has those options, again, why on earth should she be scorned for using them? If you don't like the law, campaign to have it changed, but don't imply she is wrong to avail of it.

I don't think anyone has a problem with her taking her appeals as she is entitled to do. Would anyone here be able to afford to take so many high court challenges though?

sorella

This is about the safety of two girl-children.

Whose sister died from what Pamela is striving to keep them safe from.

Which many here seem to conveniently "forget".

We thought Irish people loved children?

Clearly we were wrong?

EF wrote: »

I don't think anyone has a problem with her taking her appeals as she is entitled to do. Would anyone here be able to afford to take so many high court challenges though?

rkeane

I'm sorry, we don't all live in your bubble....we live in the real world. Pamela will be deported.....her "case" stinks to high heavens. She has fabricated large elements of her case.....that is why the courts consistently rejected her appeals. I don't have anything personal against her, I just want to see the rule of law imposed.

darealtulip

sorella wrote: »

This thread has shocked me as I had no idea there was so much racism in Ireland.

Blessings to you who see the truth and have compassion.

people are not racist just because they dont want this woman to stay. Most people just dont buy her story, and to be honest the more I hear the more I find her story at least a bit strange. I'm against FGM and think it is time to be less political correct about issue like this (FGM) some cultures are not for equallity between woman and man. Not to question this cultures is racist too. you should be allowed to critsice any culture.

Now this particular case the people who know her say she is nice and sound. This is no ground in law. This doesnt mean its racist. Be very careful with calling people racist because that pushes them in that corner.

People are not racist just because they dont agree with you. in the end of the day you cant help the whole world, especialy not when you come from a small country with no voice in the world politics (like ireland or Holland)

again I'm not for or against her staying, but playing the racist card is a bit out of order here. Have not seen a racist comment on this thread, if there would be the mods would take it off I suppose.

And remember, believing someone or agreeing with someone just because they have a certain skin color is (in my opinion) racist too and just as bad.

darealtulip

sorella wrote: »

This is about the safety of two girl-children.

Whose sister died from what Pamela is striving to keep them safe from.

Which many here seem to conveniently "forget".

We thought Irish people loved children?

Clearly we were wrong?

There is a christian part in Nigiria too, haven't seen 1 argument why she cant move there.

again I'm not against her staying or leaving, i'm just interested in this discussion because I see both sides.

Drummerboy08

+1.

Why cant see move there? Is there any reasons against it? Would that not ensure the safety of her children to a degree? Or why does she have to go back to Nigeria at all?

Again, im not racist by any means, but i simply do not believe her story. And the fact that so much money has been wasted on this case, when it could be put to much better uses really annoys me.

elshambo

Have to agree with the tulip

As previously stated in this thread i dont have an opinion one way or the other on this case, however:

The people on here and in general who go straight for the race card whenever someone doesnt agree with them is a disgrace AND more importantly hurts the case of the person you are fighting for AS
what you say colours people's opinion of the person you are defending!
(and yes i did use the word colours :eek:)

The amount of White Middle Class Straight people over the years who have called me Racist or Sexist or Homophobic based on one statement or one point of view is beyond funny
and has ALWAYS caused much amusement to people Ive lived/worked/hung out with (AKA people who know me!)
who were
not white
or not an Irish national
or not male
or not straight
and/or combinations of the 4.

Truth being told, people who go straight for the "ist" cards when in an arguement TEND to be hiding feelings that they themselves have

I used to be friends with a straight girl who worked on a gay news paper
She felt uncomfortable with how easy myself and 2 of the lads got on with her workmates, slagging them etc and they responded in kind

It was eventually pointed out that she felt uncomfortable due to her own feelings towards her workmates, which she eventually agreed with,
As they were not her "work friends" they were her "Gay work friends" and were treated differently because of this :eek:

WHY does this particular case mean so much to the people involved?
Do they get so involved with poor kids in deprived areas in Ireland?
Irish travelers?
Proving something to themselves?

Stupid questions yes! But not as stupid as calling someone Racist just for disagreeing with you!


To sum up, you might be right, you could however be wrong
if someone disagree's with you, it doesnt make them racist!
AND calling them such harms the very person(s) you claim to be trying to help!

ooh and btw
ive heard this a LOT!

darealtulip wrote: »

Most people just dont buy her story, and to be honest the more I hear the more I find her story at least a bit strange.

and a defence of "if you disagree your racist" will only add to this feeling as it can make it look like your hiding something!


and im afraid this is true

darealtulip wrote: »

Now this particular case the people who know her say she is nice and sound. This is no ground in law. This doesnt mean its racist. Be very careful with calling people racist because that pushes them in that corner.

Good luck to her and her kids wherever they end up!

btw tulip has anyone pointed out to yet what an Irish person calling someone "a tulip" means?:D;)

Big_Mac

sorella wrote: »

This is about the safety of two girl-children.

Whose sister died from what Pamela is striving to keep them safe from.

Which many here seem to conveniently "forget".

We thought Irish people loved children?

Clearly we were wrong?

Sorry, but just because I and others disagree with the fact that she should stay and doubt the credibility of her story does not mean we do not love children. How dare you! and don't think for a second that we have 'forgotten' either, as the whole story of the 'may' face FGM is continually bandied around. I 'may' get knocked down for crossing the road, but guess what? I still do it, I just look where I'm going. Point being there are safe places in Nigeria for her and her kids to stay, they just don't want to go back there. Nothing more.

Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I read on the politics forum her first daughter was voluntarily passed over for FGM. Who's fault is that?

Did I read right donegalfella?

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

Whatever you think of Gerry Ryan is irrelevant here, the point he made is one I agree with.

Fair enough

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

So Big Mac, if you felt your baby was in danger, would you not do everything in your power to make her safe? Of course you would, which is just what Pamela is doing. She has those options, again, why on earth should she be scorned for using them? If you don't like the law, campaign to have it changed, but don't imply she is wrong to avail of it.

Because her story lacks credibility and has more holes in it than a tetley's tea bag. That's why. There are many things about her story that doesn't make sense that have been mentioned before. She seems disengenueous

As I've said before, if someone was on trial for Rape and murder and went through the whole judicial system, would you be happy with that?

sorella

I "dare" because we know what will happen to those girls if ever they set foot in NIgeria.

Your analogy is ridiculous.

This is not a "may"; it is an undoubted fact. You have no idea of the culture and settings over there. The girls would have to be hiidden; no safe place. Constant fear.

So you now take refuge in gossip?

How dare YOU say you love children.

Big_Mac wrote: »

Sorry, but just because I and others disagree with the fact that she should stay and doubt the credibility of her story does not mean we do not love children. How dare you! and don't think for a second that we have 'forgotten' either, as the whole story of the 'may' face FGM is continually bandied around. I 'may' get knocked down for crossing the road, but guess what? I still do it, I just look where I'm going. Point being there are safe places in Nigeria for her and her kids to stay, they just don't want to go back there. Nothing more.

Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I read on the politics forum her first daughter was voluntarily passed over for FGM. Who's fault is that?

Did I read right donegalfella?


Fair enough



Because her story lacks credibility and has more holes in it than a tetley's tea bag. That's why. There are many things about her story that doesn't make sense that have been mentioned before. She seems disengenueous

As I've said before, if someone was on trial for Rape and murder and went through the whole judicial system, would you be happy with that?

ParkRunner

Nigeria is located in Western Africa, and borders the Gulf of Guinea, between Benin on the west and Cameroon on the east. It has a compact area of 923,768 square kilometers (356,376 square miles). The country's land mass extends from the Gulf of Guinea in the south to the Sahel (the shore of the Sahara Desert) in the north. Comparatively, Nigeria is slightly more than twice the size of California, or the size of California, Nevada, and Arizona combined.

Ireland - the total area, including inland water. Ireland’s shores enclose about 33 thousand square miles (or 85 thousand km²).

NIGERIA IS 10 TIMES THE SIZE! Surely she can evade her in-laws somewhere in this vast country?

chickenhawk

Good piece on this topic on the back page of the review section of the Irish Indo today.

darealtulip

sorella wrote: »

I "dare" because we know what will happen to those girls if ever they set foot in NIgeria.

Your analogy is ridiculous.

This is not a "may"; it is an undoubted fact. You have no idea of the culture and settings over there. The girls would have to be hiidden; no safe place. Constant fear.

So you now take refuge in gossip?

How dare YOU say you love children.

what about the christain part? What about other parts of Africa or South America? Fact is she chose to go to europe, why not go somewhere where you know you can stay?

I would if my kids future was on the line! I would make damn sure I would go somewhere with a more sure future. It has been her choice to come to europe.

By the sounds of it she wasnt exactly poor in africa, this part I just dont understand.

I must hate childeren too now???

sorella

You are seeing Nigeria through European eyes.

Ireland is safe. Africa is not.

She knew what she was doing.

No I did nto say or mean that you hate children; simply that you are not thinking of them as their mother is.

and no, you do not understand; Pamela does. She knows the culture and what happens there where women and girl children have no say.

So she came here, thinking we would keep her babies safe.

Why do you think the mutilation is done? And not just in Nigeria?

darealtulip wrote: »

what about the christain part? What about other parts of Africa or South America? Fact is she chose to go to europe, why not go somewhere where you know you can stay?

I would if my kids future was on the line! I would make damn sure I would go somewhere with a more sure future. It has been her choice to come to europe.

By the sounds of it she wasnt exactly poor in africa, this part I just dont understand.

I must hate childeren too now???

Big_Mac

sorella wrote: »

I "dare" because we know what will happen to those girls if ever they set foot in NIgeria.

Your analogy is ridiculous.

This is not a "may"; it is an undoubted fact. You have no idea of the culture and settings over there. The girls would have to be hiidden; no safe place. Constant fear.

So you now take refuge in gossip?

How dare YOU say you love children.

Excuse me? You don't even know who I am and you have the gaul to make assumptions about my morality? You have no business in doing so, and I take offence to that. If you don't like what I have to say, thats fine. Attack the post, not the poster.

So tell me, can you conclusively prove to us the undoubted fact that these children will unquestionably face FGM when they are deported to Nigeria. Will there be a Guestappo like force waiting at the airport or something? I'd be interested to know

darealtulip

sorella wrote: »

You are seeing Nigeria through European eyes.

Ireland is safe. Africa is not.

She knew what she was doing.

No I did nto say or mean that you hate children; simply that you are not thinking of them as their mother is.

and no, you do not understand; Pamela does. She knows the culture and what happens there where women and girl children have no say.

So she came here, thinking we would keep her babies safe.

Why do you think the mutilation is done? And not just in Nigeria?

How do you know what I do and dont understand? If you did read my post earlier you would know that FGM was (and maybe is) happening in Holland. A hughe problem.

And yes I am against that but you cannot say that the whole of Africa is unsafe. You look through european eyes to say what's safe and not! The most of the world is more unsafe then Ireland (incl Holland). Africa is the largest continent in the world and you're telling me her childeren wouldn't be safe any where there? I know people who live in Ghana and South Africa. Their childeren are not threatned by FGM.

takola

Guys, we really don't want this thread to turn personal here. Not everyone is going to agree. There's no point to the thread if you all did.

sorella wrote: »

How dare YOU say you love children.

This crosses the line.

Please, make your point without assuming anything about the person you are replying to. You don't know them after all. Only that they don't agree with you.

Big_Mac

sorella wrote: »

Ireland is safe. Africa is not.

By who's standards, yours or Pamela's? Because if its yours, surely you must have some first hand experience of these practises in Nigeria to arrive at this opinion

sorella wrote: »

She knew what she was doing.

Of that much, I have no doubt

sorella wrote: »

So she came here, thinking we would keep her babies safe.

Is it our job to look after her children?

sorella wrote: »

Why do you think the mutilation is done? And not just in Nigeria?

Historical tradition? other than that, no idea. Perhaps you could enlighten me?

T runner

Big_Mac wrote: »

Historical tradition? other than that, no idea. Perhaps you could enlighten me?

Can I but in?

FGM is carried out to stop the woman enjoying sex. The cliterus is cut off. The idea is to keep the woman from "straying". There is talk about religion, culture etc but this is the basic reason. It is one of the worst form of male violence
towards women.