Pamela Enitan Izevbekhai

blackiebest

Pamela today lost her last hope to stay in Sligo, barring some unforseen intervention she and her two beatuiful kids will be deported. Anyone who has had the privilage of spending some time in her company will know how much of a loss to Sligo she will be and the very probable horrors her Sligo reared kids could suffer. There is a vigil at Lady Erin statue tonight at 6pm. Anyone who can go should, really I am ashamed to be Irish after this decision. Should you wish to know more; http://www.letthemstay.org/

Big_Mac

Fair judgement IMO.
The law is there for a reason, and it has been followed. I think that the fact a website has been set up for this is a disgrace really. Seems to me that things are getting a bit like the x factor. Whoever has the biggest sob story wins and gets to stay, next thing you know, every refugee in the country is going to have the biggest sob story you can imagine and their'll be uproar if the law decides to be objective rather than subjective.

Seriously, if someone was being sentenced to life in prison for rape and murder, would you set up a website and demand they be set free if they had a big sad story about how bad their life was and how they had no choice but to do it?

Methinks not.

Not trying to ruffle feathers here, just my opinion

Anyway, rant over

2qk4u

If you are ashamed to be Irish why dont you meet her at the airport and head off to wherever with her... Why dont people get their priorities right and worry about our own problems instead of the problems of others.I suppose you realy care about travellers too ? You cant expect the country to have imagration laws and not stand by them..

takola

2qk4u wrote: »

I suppose you realy care about travellers too ?

I'm sorry but what has that got to do with anything? I don't understand what that has to do with the topic you're posting in?

Iompair

Bloody hell, thats a bit harsh. Its not like the lady is doing any one any harm by living here. And there seems to be genuine concerns about what will happen to her daughters when she's sent home.

I'm over in Bristol at the minute, but I'd attend the vigil if I was still in Sligo.

TequilaMockingBird

This is a terrible outcome. Pamela and her lovely girls have been nothing but a welcome addition to Sligo. My little girl is very sad going to bed tonight that her friend that she has gone to school with for years, has to go to a back to a country where she could be hurt, where her sister was killed. When this little girl made her communion alongside my daughter this year, we were all delighted that they were there to share such a special day.

It is terribly sad and I sincerely hope for some miracle to allow them to stay.

TequilaMockingBird

Big_Mac wrote: »

Seriously, if someone was being sentenced to life in prison for rape and murder, would you set up a website and demand they be set free if they had a big sad story about how bad their life was and how they had no choice but to do it?

What? What has that got to do with this?

Like the X Factor? Not quite, Big Mac.

magnumlady

I hope she is allowed to stay.
Its horrific what they do to girls in Nigeria and the poor woman already lost a daughter through it.

ParkRunner

Why not let everyone who fears FGM stay?

Mint Sauce

tbh, this is the first i have heard of this persons campaign

and it seems she will be allowed to stay a little longer, but no disrespect to the lady, it does sound quite like a horrfic ordeal, but unfortunatly, some of our goverment departments do have to make difficult decisions, our goverment cant afford to look after or nor does it have the resourses to look after every person that seeks asylem,

i am sure that there are many genuine people like pamela, trying to escape conflict and touture, but there are also many others just trying to get a meal ticket, its up to our authorites to view each case indivauly according to the law and to try and make the best decision without being influenced by sentiment, it sounds harsh, but for the good of everyone, unfortunatly, thats the way it has to be

slapbangwhallop

magnumlady wrote: »

I hope she is allowed to stay.
Its horrific what they do to girls in Nigeria and the poor woman already lost a daughter through it.

So Irish people are now standing in moral judgement of the costume of Nigeria are they?

IMO she is a system player just like a lot - if not the majority of refugees in Ireland

Big_Mac

sueme wrote: »

What? What has that got to do with this?

Like the X Factor? Not quite, Big Mac.

I used a crude analogy, but basically what irks me is that with this campaign nonsense her deportation seems to have very little to do with the laws in this country and more to do with the sob story that is being told to everyone.

If we make an exception in this case, we should abandon the laws that we hold in this country and run everything on a 'woe is me' basis.

T runner

slapbangwhallop wrote: »

So Irish people are now standing in moral judgement of the costume of Nigeria are they?

IMO she is a system player just like a lot - if not the majority of refugees in Ireland

Just to clarify, Pamela Izevbekhai ia an asylum seeker not a refugee. (A refugee is someone who has successfully being granted asylum). As an asylum seeker she is entitled to the full 19.60 euro per week plus 9 euro per child.
This hardly makes her a system player does it?
Dont know her myself but anyone ive heard who actually knows her (including some on this thread) feels she is very genuine and thats good enough for me.
I hope the intervention of the European Court of Human Rights will force a reversal of the deportation decision.

If your going to make sweeping derogatory generalisations about refugees it might be a good idea to actually find out what a refugee is. Heres a good place to start.





.

TequilaMockingBird

Pamelas little girl is back in school at the moment, all the kids are thrilled, most of them have lots of questions as to why they were on the news etc. Its hard to explain it to them. Everytime there is a court case they have to pack up everything they own, say goodbye to all their friends and be ready to leave the country immediately. This is going on for years, I really don't know how Pamela does it.

pinder

laws are there for a reason,whats the point of having immigration laws if when theyr broken people just say 'let her stay'.why are the laws there if this is going to happen?i wasnt racist there t runner,was i?????im sure youll try something else to silence people who are willing to speak their mind about this.nobodies allowed to say anything.WHY ARE THE LAWS THERE IF WE ARE NOT GOING TO STICK TO THEM???????

seanybiker

its about bloody time she got sent home. Who gives two s$ts if she was sound. Thats no reason to get away with entering a country illegally.

elshambo

dont know the woman
dont know her case

Dont like Kevin Myers; but he wrote ths piece which makes a lot of sence
(he thinks she should probably be allowed to stay btw)

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/our-western-values-are-not-just-a-black-and-white-issue-1326485.html

Seeing as little boys are being illegally circumcised in this country AND the person(s) are getting away with it, the precedent is set in Irish law so she probably had/has to go:(

And no i dont believe Myers thinks she should stay bit either

walshb

This woman went thru an exhaustive legal process paid for by the State and she was found to NOT be eligible to stay. What is so hard to understand about this. She had her day in court and the law decided her fate after hearing all sides. The only winners here are the GREEDY lawyers who are making a mint out of these asylum cases. An absolute MINT.

If some folks had their way, every Tom, Dick and Harry would be allowed stay; without even considering how they would be cared for or the cost and burden to the State. You know why? Because these folks pushing and pushing
and blocking any decsion etc, probably don't have to pay a cent to keep
asylum seekers here

Whether one likes it or NOT, the whole process of asylum is a business and folks are making a fortune from it!

BTW, isn't she awaiting a European ruling? And how quick Europe are to act.
I bet if this was some other issue, you would be waiting years for a court date!

If this is overruled, it sets a real dangerous precedent for future cases and the country
will be overflowing with any OLD case!

T runner

This is probably one for the politics thread. But there has been a few attacks on this Sligo family in this thread and its only right that they are defended here.

walshb wrote: »

This woman went thru an exhaustive legal process paid for by the State and she was found to NOT be eligible to stay. .

Only 19 out of 1500 Nigerian Asylum have been found eligible for refugee status an unbelievable low ratioo. The reason is thats Nigeria has signed up to human rights treaties, anti-violence against women protocols etc. giving European governments the excuse to say "Nigeria has adequate protections against torture..."
The only effort Nigerian authorities have used in enforcing these "protections" is in signing these documents to get them off the hook. They have done nothing to change things on the ground.

So when people like The Izevbekhai's come along and say "protect us from Female Genital Mutilation, Weve lost a sister and daughter to torture, it will be the same if were forced back". The Refugee Commisioners say: "youre wrong, look at the protocols they have signed. Nigeria has adequate protections against..."
Acording to the law it could be looked on as correct but in truth it is false.
The legal process doesnt always do justice. You have a right to fight hard especially as youd expect when the lives of your children are involved.

If some folks had their way, every Tom, Dick and Harry would be allowed stay; without even considering how they would be cared for or the cost and burden to the State.

The break through similar case in the UK in FGM was in 2006 when an 18 year old girl called Hornat from Somalia. She was given refugee status. Since then the UK has had only 3 appeals for asylum for FGM one granted one turned down one still being looked at. So no more scaremongering about flood gates opening if The Izevbekhai's get justice, please.

You know why? Because these folks pushing and pushing
and blocking any decsion etc, probably don't have to pay a cent to keep
asylum seekers here

This is ridiculous. Everyone who pays taxes is contributing towards Asylum Seekers getting the chance of refugee status. I will be a proud contributor should my few cents keep these girls from harm.

BTW, isn't she awaiting a European ruling? And how quick Europe are to act.
I bet if this was some other issue, you would be waiting years for a court date!

The European Court of Human Rights have to intervene before a deportation. No point otherwise.

If this is overruled, it sets a real dangerous precedent for future cases and the country
will be overflowing with any OLD case!

Didnt set a dangerous precedent in the UK. Only 3 cases since 2006, only 1 accepted

pinder wrote: »

laws are there for a reason,whats the point of having immigration laws if when theyr broken people just say 'let her stay'.why are the laws there if this is going to happen?i wasnt racist there t runner,was i?????im sure youll try something else to silence people who are willing to speak their mind about this.nobodies allowed to say anything.WHY ARE THE LAWS THERE IF WE ARE NOT GOING TO STICK TO THEM???????

The Law is not always enforced correctly and I dont believe I have called anyone a racist on this thread as you have implied.

seanybiker wrote: »

its about bloody time she got sent home. Who gives two s$ts if she was sound. Thats no reason to get away with entering a country illegally.

Did she enter the country illegally???????? Where did you get this from? The courts didnt have a problem with how she entered the country. An asylum seeker must apply for asylum at the first immigration port and she did this.
She is being turned down for asylum because even though her daughter died as a result of FGM the Refugee Commisioner decided there was no longer any danger. In my opinion this decision had no basis in fact and was only taken because Nigeria has made a load of empty promises by signing protocols they have no intention of acting on. So for someone like Pamela to suceed she must prove that the Nigerian government is full of s***. An impossible thing to do especially when the refugee commisioners dont want you to prove it.
There is a full thread on the politics forum about this case HERE with over 650 posts

I know people have genuine concerns about some asylum seekers who are here due only to poverty.

Hopefully Ive answered doubts above about the Izevbekhai's genuineness.
This family have lived in Sligo for some time now and we should support our own. This case is about whether two little Sligo girls should be subjected to torture or not. Lets show compassion and support them.

T runner

elshambo wrote: »

dont know the woman
dont know her case

Dont like Kevin Myers; but he wrote ths piece which makes a lot of sence
(he thinks she should probably be allowed to stay btw)

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/our-western-values-are-not-just-a-black-and-white-issue-1326485.html

Seeing as little boys are being illegally circumcised in this country AND the person(s) are getting away with it, the precedent is set in Irish law so she probably had/has to go:(

And no i dont believe Myers thinks she should stay bit either

A few quotes and facts about Kevin Myers:

n July 2008, Myers wrote an article arguing that providing aid to Africa only results in increasing its population. As aresult the Immigrant Council of Ireland made an official complaint to the Garda Síochána alleging incitement to hatred

"How many girls - and we’re largely talking about teenagers here - consciously embark upon a career of mothering bastards because it seems a good way of getting money and accommodation from the State?" Kevin Myers, Irishmans Diary Irish Times.

"....and why the term "bitchiness" accurately describes how women often behave towards one other __ in precisely the same way that female dogs do: they are riven and driven by social insecurity."
An article by Kevin Myers about females on "the apprentice" on British TV.

You get the picture?

To put it mildly, females and Africans are not on this guys favourites list.

In this article he tries to compare this unfortunate young boys case with that of the Izenbayai girls.
They are not like for like and he knows it.
This boy died as a result of a botched male circumcission which resulted in his genitals being mutilated.
Every single female circumcission results in genital mutilation.
The first case was for manslaughter I guess. The second was an Asylum case. Myers knows this.

Myers also casts doubt on whether Elizabeth Izenbayai really died of FGM forteen years ago. The Irish courts have absolutely no doubts about this. Myers also knows this.

Myers blames "mothers" for FGM in Africa. Yet he would surely also know that FGM is internationaly accepted as a form of male violence / torture against women.

He casts doubt on the Izenbayais:
"What if a baseless threat of circumcision is being falsely used to enable the Izevbekhais to stay?

And even if it's not, are we to be the refuge for every single Nigerian or Somalia or Chadean or Kuwaiti woman who wants to avoid genital mutilation?"

No where in his article has he shown that the threat of circumcission to the Izevbekhais is "baseless". The Irish courts have accepted that Pamela Izevbekhai genuinely believes the threat to be real. Again Myers knows this.

As for the Floodgates threat of "every single Nigerian or Somalia or Chadean or Kuwaiti woman who wants to avoid genital mutilation", surely a prominent report who does his research would know of the precedent in the UK (1 case in 3 years). Again you would imagine he would know this. The only thing "baseless" are Kevin Myers' nutter arguments.

And who does he blame?

Nigerian Mothers for FGM
Pamela Izevbekhai for being dodgy: Did her daughter really die from FGM? etc
Immigrants for male circumcission and threatening to overrun the country.
And females groups.

No surprises there I guess,
females and Africans.

Violence against women isnt confined to Africa BTW.

Just to show the worth of Sligo female groups against violence to women.

The Domestic Violence Advocacy Service for Sligo, Leitrim and West Cavan is taking part in this year's 16 Days International Campaign against violence towards women. http://ireland16days.blogspot.com/search/label/Sligo

Their campaign this year is 'Help Her to Tell'.

pinder

i hope she gets kicked outta a the country and id hazard a guess the majority of the country feel the same.were sick of these asylum seekers and their endless bogus claims.no wonder nobody believes her.few crocodile tears and people like you,the people systematically trying to ruin this country by trying to let anyone who wants in, stupidly believe what shes saying.and you know what i mean about the racism thing,its the reason theres one less person in the politics forum that can disagree with your idiotic ways,ill be back in a month dont worry

pinder

and how do you know nigeria has done nothing,who are you to say that.are you nigerian actually?i wouldnt be surprised

takola

pinder wrote: »

and how do you know nigeria has done nothing,who are you to say that.are you nigerian actually?i wouldnt be surprised

Tone down your attitude. Seriously.

pinder

i havent said anythin racist,anything of offense.im sorry but its quite obvious whats going on here.i was silenced once already for speaking my mind on this.not going to let it happen,im finished,let t runner say whatever,shut up anyone who calls into question their idiotic ideas.opinions only allowed as long as yee agree with it

takola

pinder wrote: »

i havent said anythin racist,anything of offense.im sorry but its quite obvious whats going on here.i was silenced once already for speaking my mind on this.not going to let it happen,im finished,let t runner say whatever,shut up anyone who calls into question their idiotic ideas.opinions only allowed as long as yee agree with it

I personally don't have an opinion and have not been involved in any discussion on this topic. T Runner posted his opinions, backing them up with links and asked questions.

You on the other hand decided ranting was the right way to go about expressing your opinion. You do not speak for the irish nation. People are entitled to disagree with you.

If you would like to discuss this you're welcome to but I suggest you do so in a mature and calm manner rather than ranting. I'm not interested in how/why you've been silenced anywhere else either. You haven't been silenced here. I'm telling you to tone down your attitude. Perhaps reading the forum charter would be a good idea also.

Also, T Runner has nothing to do with the reason I've commented in this thread. He/she hasn't shut anyone up and calling his/her ideas idiotic isn't on. You seem to have a problem with him/her but I suggest you take that to PM.

pinder

i even saw a polish guy on tv saying there were too many immigrants here,horses mouth.when the poles are finding it hard to get work you know we have problems.then again,at least they work

pinder

you deleted my message,this is like east germany before the wall came down

Sully

pinder wrote: »

you deleted my message,this is like east germany before the wall came down

They had forums back in those days? :O

takola

Pinder banned. Sully, take yourself out of my forum you trouble-maker!

This can get back on topic now.

blackiebest

Wow, missed all that, good moderation!

So people, Pamela will be back in Sligo for the Christmas:D:D
Spread a bit of Christmas smile if you see her about, it means a lot

trailerparkboy

She has cost the irish taxpayer millions , time to dport her and her children back to where they came from, hopefully she will be deported by the end of january:D

Xiney

Her two beautiful little girls (saw the eldest at her communion last summer) don't deserve this. And they certainly don't deserve what's waiting for them in Nigeria.

I don't understand this world, or certain people. Humanity. Crock of ****, that.

TequilaMockingBird

I was talking to her today, her manner and graciousness alone would improve our community vastly.

trailerparkboy

No its not harsh she is illegal in this country and she has cost taxpayers millions at a time when we are nearly bankurpt, most irish people are sick of bogus asylum seekers.

blackiebest

trailerparkboy wrote: »

No its not harsh she is illegal in this country and she has cost taxpayers millions at a time when we are nearly bankurpt, most irish people are sick of bogus asylum seekers.

Really well chosen handle, suits you

Big_Mac

sueme wrote: »

I was talking to her today, her manner and graciousness alone would improve our community vastly.

So we should let her stay because she's nice?

Xiney wrote: »

Her two beautiful little girls (saw the eldest at her communion last summer) don't deserve this. And they certainly don't deserve what's waiting for them in Nigeria.

I don't understand this world, or certain people. Humanity. Crock of ****, that.

I don't get this, do you know categorically what exactly is waiting for her in Nigeria?? Methinks not. Her government have said that they would be safe, but oh no, that has to be lies doesnt it?. So what, we are taking every word of what she says as gospel, despite the fact that a lot of this may be wholly exaggerated to pull on heart strings so people can get on a bandwagon and say she should stay? She has come over here and painted a picture of poor little me and the big bad meanie government over there. So lets just believe her, because she's 'nice' and we can all live happily ever after instead of looking at the truth.

We have enough problems in this country that we need to be campaigning about, never mind some refugee spouting about the state of their country. Go home and sort out your own problems with your own country, we have enough to do here. For god sake, this debacle has cost the country a huge amount of money. That's public money that is badly needed everywhere else in this country, but no, lets spend it on this, because we like her.

This person (and many others) are here at a cost to the tax payer. Look around, we are in the depths of depression, and the state can hardly even manage to look after its own population never mind any refugees. Laws are there for a reason people. To be enforced!

Rant over.

Melion

Why has nobody clicked that she is probably being nice etc just to get a bit of sympathy in the hope it will help her be allowed to stay in the country? Get them out i say and help a single irish mother and her 2 kids instead.

TequilaMockingBird

Big_Mac wrote: »

So we should let her stay because she's nice?

No, because she is a mother of two little girls who have been reared alongside my own, who play the same games in the yard, who have the same friends, who do the same school nativity play, who are looking forward to Santa, and all the other aspects of a childs life here, and have done for the majority of their lives. If there is any doubt (and there is plenty) that the girls are at risk then simply let them stay and continue their lives here. The fact that Pamela herself is a lovely person, and would undoubtedly be a bonus to Sligo is not a reason to let them stay, but risk to those little girls, who are identical to my own is.

Big_Mac

No Offence Sueme, but what has any of that got to do with the laws of this country? She is still an Asylum seeker.

Like I said, laws are there for a reason. Should they just be thrown out the window because she has a few friends here and has her kids in school?

May as well bin the drink driving laws then, since most people don't cause accidents......

darealtulip

I think most asylem seekers have friends, that's not an issue within the law. As hard as it sounds the law doesnt care if somebody is nice or not. You can or can not agree with the law ofcourse but for the law every body should be the same, exept people who can afford a good lawyer are a bit more equal then others. I dont have anything against anybody but do understand you cant help everybody. And coming from a land the size of Munster with 17 million people in it I know what busy is. Saying that I would not want to be the one who makes the dicision who can stay and who not. I see both sides and cant say who's right or wrong. There are a lot of fake sylem seeker who fcuked it up for the real ones. In holland the minister somtimes let people stay because a lot of people are in favour of them (mostly during ellection years) Its nice for he people that can stay but i's really not fair on the other ones, is it?

blackiebest

Dear Minister Ahern

I'm writing to you today, two days before the 60th anniversary of the signing of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, with a certain amount of misgiving but also with enormous pride, because I know that it is more than likely that you will read this letter. I cherish the fact that I live in a liberal democracy, where our politicians are known to us, where we can call them by their first names without causing offence, where even their nicknames are badges of affection. I love the fact that my children are growing up in this country, a place which is a bigger version of their home - a warm, loving, funny, challenging place. I remember reading a short article by a friend of mine, Chinedu Onyejelem, in which he described how moved he was to see Bertie Ahern, still our Taoiseach at the time, walking up the steps of the church in Cabra, on his way into mass. I remember feeling great pride in my country that such a thing, our country's leader mixing with other people, was possible, and that we had organised ourselves in such a way that we could take this simple act for granted.

I was watching the News on RTE one day last week, and there was an item on Pamela Izevbekhai and her daughters, a civic reception for them in Sligo. And I thought how profoundly upsetting it would be to see these three people being deported from our country, and how ashamed I would feel if this happened. I'm no expert on law and won't pretend to be, but I can think of no moral reason why Ms Izevbekhai and her children should not be allowed to stay here. I wasn't looking at precedents or statistics; I was looking at two little girls in their Sunday dresses, kicking their heels against the legs of the chairs they sat on. I saw the innocence and beauty, and the glimpse of the future, that we all love to see in children. I am a very proud citizen of Ireland but I hate to think how I will feel if I have to witness these two children being hauled out of my country and sent to a place where they might be maimed.

I grew up in a house where the Proclamation of Independence was up on the wall, in the hall, and I don't know how many times I read it or parts of it. I remember once when I was a child counting the number of times the word 'children' appeared in the document. I counted four. I remember thinking that this was amazing, that a document that started with the scary, stirring phrase, 'In the name of God and the dead generations' could also include children, that a call to arms could also be a warm embrace. The Proclamations's call to arms can be consigned to history but, perhaps more than ever before, we need the warm embrace. We are moving into frightening, uncertain times, made more frightening, I think, by much of the commentary and political decisions. Our politicians, I'm afraid, have not, to date, been serving us well. I can well understand that they might feel as uncertain and as frightened about the future as many of us are being made to feel. But I can't think of any other time in my life when acts of generosity and reassurance are so vital. The decision to let Pamela Izevbekhai and her children stay would be such an act. I've never met Ms Izevbekhai and her children but they look like a warm, beautiful family and, at this point in our history, we need all the beauty we can get.

Yours sincerely
Roddy Doyle

Mint Sauce

i am sorry, but we can not let sentement or emotion to control our decisions, i know little about mrs Izevbekhai , her plight, her history or her family, only what i have read here, so this is a totally unbiased arguement,

the goverment has a duty to act and make dicisions on a case by case bases, if they were to allow every person in who seeked asylum, it would be unfair to the people of this country and to the the people being admited, as the goverment would not have the fininaces to look after the people living here already who need it and for the people being admited who need it

these in charge of these decisions have difficult ones to make, there are many different aspects to consider and sentiment can not come into it, if mrs Izevbekhai or any other person has a geniuene case then i would hope that our goverment would do their duty for them, but they need to work with the facts, they need to take into account them and the comunties they are moving to

if what is being said about this lady true, then how can you not feel for her, i hope it works out for her, what ever decision our goverment makes, if she is allowed to stay i hope you all embrace her as a derserving human being and all the other derserving applicants our goverment accepts, if not, we have to accept there desisions and their reasons for it, it would be great if they could allow all in who had a valid aguement, but they cant, unfortunatly, these desisions have to be made, it may sound harsh, unfair, unjust, it would be thesame for any one of us seeking asylum

Big_Mac

blackiebest wrote: »

Dear Minister Ahern

I'm writing to you today, two days before the 60th anniversary of the signing of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, with a certain amount of misgiving but also with enormous pride, because I know that it is more than likely that you will read this letter. I cherish the fact that I live in a liberal democracy, where our politicians are known to us, where we can call them by their first names without causing offence, where even their nicknames are badges of affection. I love the fact that my children are growing up in this country, a place which is a bigger version of their home - a warm, loving, funny, challenging place. I remember reading a short article by a friend of mine, Chinedu Onyejelem, in which he described how moved he was to see Bertie Ahern, still our Taoiseach at the time, walking up the steps of the church in Cabra, on his way into mass. I remember feeling great pride in my country that such a thing, our country's leader mixing with other people, was possible, and that we had organised ourselves in such a way that we could take this simple act for granted.

I was watching the News on RTE one day last week, and there was an item on Pamela Izevbekhai and her daughters, a civic reception for them in Sligo. And I thought how profoundly upsetting it would be to see these three people being deported from our country, and how ashamed I would feel if this happened. I'm no expert on law and won't pretend to be, but I can think of no moral reason why Ms Izevbekhai and her children should not be allowed to stay here. I wasn't looking at precedents or statistics; I was looking at two little girls in their Sunday dresses, kicking their heels against the legs of the chairs they sat on. I saw the innocence and beauty, and the glimpse of the future, that we all love to see in children. I am a very proud citizen of Ireland but I hate to think how I will feel if I have to witness these two children being hauled out of my country and sent to a place where they might be maimed.

I grew up in a house where the Proclamation of Independence was up on the wall, in the hall, and I don't know how many times I read it or parts of it. I remember once when I was a child counting the number of times the word 'children' appeared in the document. I counted four. I remember thinking that this was amazing, that a document that started with the scary, stirring phrase, 'In the name of God and the dead generations' could also include children, that a call to arms could also be a warm embrace. The Proclamations's call to arms can be consigned to history but, perhaps more than ever before, we need the warm embrace. We are moving into frightening, uncertain times, made more frightening, I think, by much of the commentary and political decisions. Our politicians, I'm afraid, have not, to date, been serving us well. I can well understand that they might feel as uncertain and as frightened about the future as many of us are being made to feel. But I can't think of any other time in my life when acts of generosity and reassurance are so vital. The decision to let Pamela Izevbekhai and her children stay would be such an act. I've never met Ms Izevbekhai and her children but they look like a warm, beautiful family and, at this point in our history, we need all the beauty we can get.

Yours sincerely
Roddy Doyle

What has this speech got to do with anything?

I can think of no moral reason why Ms Izevbekhai and her children should not be allowed to stay here

I can think of no moral reason either, but that doesn't change the laws. Like Stewie said, its about facts and laws, not about how nice someone is or isn't?

Should we run auditions for people to come into this country instead of having laws?
Should someone be allowed to keep their job because over someone else because they're a nicer person? Same principle. These decisions are made on facts, and not on emotion or feelings. They are done so for a reason

Essexboy

Big_Mac wrote: »

What has this speech got to do with anything?



I can think of no moral reason either, but that doesn't change the laws. Like Stewie said, its about facts and laws, not about how nice someone is or isn't?

Should we run auditions for people to come into this country instead of having laws?
Should someone be allowed to keep their job because over someone else because they're a nicer person? Same principle. These decisions are made on facts, and not on emotion or feelings. They are done so for a reason

These decisions are made on facts, and not on emotion or feelings. NO they are not. They are made by a "secret system" which is "manifestly unfair", not my description but that of the Supreme Court. The Refugee Appeals Tribunal was not only unfair but a gravy train for lawyers who supported FF/PDs.

solarant

So is Sligo to be the new destination for every Muslim who says they or there family is under threat of genital mutilation.

Nigeria has lots of Christians living there and if this woman was sent back to a Christian area she would not be under any threat.

Big_Mac

solarant wrote: »

So is Sligo to be the new destination for every Muslim who says they or there family is under threat of genital mutilation.

Nigeria has lots of Christians living there and if this woman was sent back to a Christian area she would not be under any threat.

Most likely. I am fast getting the impression that the laws of this country are subjective to the people on the 'let her stay' bandwagon and not objective as they should be.

Essexboy, care to elaborate on this 'Secret System'?

solarant

Are you suggesting every girl in Lagos has been genitally mutilated.

Xiney wrote: »

Her two beautiful little girls (saw the eldest at her communion last summer) don't deserve this. And they certainly don't deserve what's waiting for them in Nigeria.

I don't understand this world, or certain people. Humanity. Crock of ****, that.

Xiney

Her eldest died from having undergone the proceedure. I think she's more afraid of her family than of the country.

dardevle

Xiney wrote: »

Her eldest died from having undergone the proceedure. I think she's more afraid of her family than of the country.

from a procedure that occurs in a minority of the population
and only then with parental consent

Big_Mac

Hang on a sec, if she's afraid of her family, she should be turning to the legal system in her own country. Why is ireland getting involved in a family matter that doesn't concern us?

TequilaMockingBird

Does it really matter where the children are from? Nigeria, America, England, Roscommon - they are all just children.

It is her husbands family who killed the elder daughter.

Please read the website www.letthemstay.org, and while ye're at it watch the video at the very end of the page. Then think of your daughters, sisters and nieces.