Lack of 'Real Ale' in Irish Pubs

LordSutch

London Pride, Abbott Ale, Spitfire, Old Thumper, Bombardier, Reverend James, Bishops Finger, Bishops Tipple, Widows peg, Youngs Premium, Old Speckled Hen, Bulldog, Adnams, Marstons, Hogs back, Hobgoblin, Badger, Directors, Tanglefoot, Ruddles, Green King IPA, TEA, Golden Glory, Betty Stoggs, Cornish Knocker, Holy Grail, Old leg Over, Wonkey Donkey, Old Hooky, These are Real Ale's and the list goes on & on ....

Oh for a freshly drawn Pint of any of the above in Ireland, or even just in Dublin.

Simon201

Nearest I've found in Dublin recently is the bottles of Shepherd Neame available in some off licences and cafes - mmmm..... pretty pretty good!
We used to drive for miles with the CAMRA guide to find a good pint of Greene King Abbott ale when I lived in Cambridgeshire in the 80's! Funny how there are 'Irish Pubs' in every city in the world but Dublin doesn't have anything like an 'English' style pub serving real ale... groan!

jdivision

BeerNut wrote: »

I doubt there was any deal. They would have looked at the cost of buying licences and property.

They bought a building on Capel Street to open it, decided against it (rumour mill at the time said Diageo refused to supply them) and then sold the building at a heavy loss. A licence costs about E130k, it's not that much albeit it'd be a lot better if those cafe style premises had been introduced.

fatboypee

I would 'hope' it wasn't just because diageo refused to supply them as Tara's speciality beer house (my local) does extremely well and Guinness supply them too, even tho they sell alot of 'foreign' beers....

FBP..

BeerNut

jdivision wrote: »

They bought a building on Capel Street to open it, decided against it (rumour mill at the time said Diageo refused to supply them) and then sold the building at a heavy loss. A licence costs about E130k, it's not that much albeit it'd be a lot better if those cafe style premises had been introduced.

Last I heard it was closer to €180k, but I take your point and that's very interesting to know. It does seem weird that Diageo would have the power to scupper them. It suggests strongly that JDW never had any intention of selling the sort of beers they sell in the UK, but just Guinness, Bud, Carlsberg and the other kegged stuff that Irish drinkers enjoy.

The café-bar licence scheme was definitely a major step towards better variety in the Irish on-trade beer market as it would have made licence-holders much less risk-averse. That the publicans saw it off quickly behind the scenes shows that they have very little interest in giving the drinkers what they want. And every pint of Diageo or Heineken beer sold further enforces their anti-choice agenda.

fatboypee wrote:

I would 'hope' it wasn't just because diageo refused to supply them as Tara's speciality beer house (my local) does extremely well and Guinness supply them too, even tho they sell alot of 'foreign' beers....

I know another pub with a good beer selection which has an uneasy relationship with Diageo, but the big boys keep supplying them. I don't think they can afford to be fussy these days.

rubadub

BeerNut wrote: »

Concerned drinkers need to boycott the pubs and breweries that don't sell the beers they want or things will never get better.

If you have to drink Guinness, ensure the barman knows you're doing it under protest

And ask in the pub for a bottle of pint of whatever you wish they did sell, and act surprised when they say they don't have it, then ask for another and another, and eventually sigh and go "ah well, I suppose I will have to have a whatever slop they have"

Obviously would have more effect on the owner or head barman if you can find them. People have to show there is an interest in these beers, and publicans might then realise there is money to be made too. Better still you could walk out when they say they don't have what you want, would work well these days of half empty pubs, go in with a gang of thirsty looking lads who are going to spend a potential fortune and then leave!

fatboypee

BeerNut wrote: »

Last I heard it was closer to €180k, but I take your point and that's very interesting to know. It does seem weird that Diageo would have the power to scupper them. It suggests strongly that JDW never had any intention of selling the sort of beers they sell in the UK, but just Guinness, Bud, Carlsberg and the other kegged stuff that Irish drinkers enjoy.

The café-bar licence scheme was definitely a major step towards better variety in the Irish on-trade beer market as it would have made licence-holders much less risk-averse. That the publicans saw it off quickly behind the scenes shows that they have very little interest in giving the drinkers what they want. And every pint of Diageo or Heineken beer sold further enforces their anti-choice agenda.

I know another pub with a good beer selection which has an uneasy relationship with Diageo, but the big boys keep supplying them. I don't think they can afford to be fussy these days.

I reckon its getting close to enough demand for places to sell other beers that they don't need to rely on Guinness..


imagine, a JD style place (as it used to be, with its own set of craft beers)...
here...

FBP

dreenman

It would be great to get draught real ale - there must be some sort of demand for a wider choice of decent beer. The great Irish Beer Festival in Galway was successfull enough for them to plan another next year - although there was too much continental beer for my taste.

Over here in Galway I remember a few years ago Tigh Neachtain's used to have Biddy Early and D'arcey's on draught. I'm not sure when they stopped but I think it was more to do with the breweries not supplying draught anymore.

Is the problem with draught ale is that its too expensive to bring over from the UK and there are not enough real ale breweries in Ireland?

In the UK there is a reduced duty tax on beer from breweries less than a certain size maybe something like that over here would help in kickstarting a small/regional brewery industry?

r3nu4l

BeerNut wrote: »

And if you keep validating Diageo and its retailers in this way, there never will be.

Concerned drinkers need to boycott the pubs and breweries that don't sell the beers they want or things will never get better.

If you have to drink Guinness, ensure the barman knows you're doing it under protest and for fork's sake don't order a second pint.

1. I always ask if they have real ales (even when I know they don't )
2. I then instigate a chat saying how real ales are my preference and they should look into getting it
3. I then buy a Guinness
4. I drink with my mates, encouraging them to come back to mine for some bottled reall ales.


This has worked on a few occasions but when the lads refuse to leave, I stay and drink the Guinness. I don't get home to Ireland that often and when I do I mostly see family and in-laws, not my mates, so when I do see my mates, I'm forked if I'm going to boycott a pub if they want to stay there

noby

There is a 50% duty rate for microbreweries here, which helps but wouldn't necessarily kickstart the industry. Customers choosing, or looking for, local beers might help a little.

One of the big problems with bringing over casks, or even sourcing local casks, is that you need a cellarman that knows what they are doing. 99% of Irish publicans wouldn't know how to handle a cask. There are a few good guys out there, and the tide might ever-so-slowly turn.
For now there is, as already mentioned, the Porterhouse, Tara's, Franciscan Well (seasonal, I think) and Tigh Bric (sp) in Kerry. One or two others are looking at dipping their toe in the water.
Anyone who likes cask ales, and likes to support the Irish microbreweries should try to get to the Easterfest in Cork, where they usually have by far the widest range of Irish cask ales under the one roof.

LordSutch

I am just wondering if Real Ale 'used' to be available On Tap back in Dublin back in the day (1920s-30s-40s) ?

Maybe Ireland moved away from Real Ales after independence? and to be honest I am really just surmising because there are still many pubs around Dublin with old signs both inside & outside advertising Ale's, Stout, Porter, Spirits available here, which makes me wonder was there a time . . . ?

noby

Right up the late sixties, I would say. Then Guinness started using kegs and nitro, to try to emulate the appearance of cask ale. The convenience to the publican was their big selling point. A similar trend happened in the UK, and from that CAMRA was born. Unfortunately, living on an island with one dominant brewer meant cask pretty much went overnight here.

In the 70s in the UK John Smiths, amongst others, started supplying the pubs with 5 barrel bulk storage tanks, which were filled up by a bulk lorry, similar to the way you get your oil delivered. Thankfully that practice didn't last.

BeerNut

Camelot wrote: »

I am just wondering if Real Ale 'used' to be available On Tap back in Dublin back in the day (1920s-30s-40s) ?

Yes. The early '60s was when the change came: Guinness, now in complete control of the market, invented nitrokegging and stopped producing cask beer. It took another ten or twenty years before the same thing began to happen in Britain, where the market was more diverse. Except there the drinkers organised, stood up and said "No".

Edit: by which I mean: what Noby said.

noby

Mark the day: I beat TBN to a reply.

oblivious

Camelot wrote: »

I am just wondering if Real Ale 'used' to be available On Tap back in Dublin back in the day (1920s-30s-40s) ?

Maybe Ireland moved away from Real Ales after independence? and to be honest I am really just surmising because there are still many pubs around Dublin with old signs both inside & outside advertising Ale's, Stout, Porter, Spirits available here, which makes me wonder was there a time . . . ?

ALSO you are forgeting real ales do not need a hand pump to dispense them, a more practical way is to dispense it by gravity

noby

Ale's, Stout, Porter, Spirits available here

Actually it is funny to see those signs, and a row of 'handpumps' on the bar. There must be a couple of English tourists who get their hopes up, only to be told they're purely decorative.

LordSutch

Very true Noby, I had friends over from England last year & the question came up later in the evening "Where can I get a real Pint mate" to which sadly, we know the answer (in Real Ale terms).

Actually I must inquire in that Pub opposite the Gaiety Theatre (downstairs) would they try London Pride or any other Caske Ale for the duration of this years Six Nations Rugby!

They should do a roooooaring trade with the amount of English, Welsh, & Scottish Rugby supporters that drink in that place ............

oblivious

Camelot wrote: »

Actually I must inquire in that Pub opposite the Gaiety Theatre (downstairs) would they try London Pride or any other Caske Ale for the duration of this years Six Nations Rugby!

But keeping real ale is a skill and true cellarmanship is no longer practices here in Ireland and is not really suite to one off servings.

BeerNut

Camelot wrote: »

They should do a roooooaring trade with the amount of English, Welsh, & Scottish Rugby supporters that drink in that place

They come to Dublin to drink Guinness. Remember: Diageo owns this town.

LordSutch

Sadly thats very true BeerNut, it was just wishfull thinking on my part really.

LordSutch

Did somebody mention 'Bass' ?

Is Bass a 'Real Ale' as defined by CAMRA ? I dont think so .................

BeerNut

That's true. It's also true that long threads sometimes veer off topic.

the bolt

Camelot wrote: »

London Pride, Abbott Ale, Spitfire, Old Thumper, Bombardier, Reverend James, Bishops Finger, Bishops Tipple, Widows peg, Youngs Premium, Old Speckled Hen, Bulldog, Adnams, Marstons, Hogs back, Hobgoblin, Badger, Directors, Tanglefoot, Ruddles, Green King IPA, TEA, Golden Glory, Betty Stoggs, Cornish Knocker, Holy Grail, Old leg Over, Wonkey Donkey, Old Hooky, These are Real Ale's and the list goes on & on ....

Oh for a freshly drawn Pint of any of the above in Ireland, or even just in Dublin.

as an ex wychwood employee i say you have named some good ales there but at this minute i dont think the demand is there for most of them ,bearing in mind the skill involved in keeping them in tip top condition.camra dont do them selfs no favours at times,a lot of snobery ,i could tell you a few stories about my local branch(when in trade)

BeerNut

the bolt wrote:

you have named some good ales there but at this minute i dont think the demand is there for most of them ,bearing in mind the skill involved in keeping them in tip top condition

Not to mention the hassle of bringing them through customs. It would be much better, and a little more practical, if Ireland developed a native beer scene that was just as good.

the bolt wrote:

camra dont do them selfs no favours at times,a lot of snobery

A chap I met from one of the small English breweries at the European Beer Festival told me that CAMRA stands for Come And Meet Real Arseholes.

oblivious

BeerNut wrote: »

Not to mention the hassle of bringing them through customs. It would be much better, and a little more practical, if Ireland developed a native beer scene that was just as good.


A chap I met from one of the small English breweries at the European Beer Festival told me that CAMRA stands for Come And Meet Real Arseholes.

with beards and sandals

LordSutch

BeerNut wrote: »

if Ireland developed a native beer scene that was just as good.

Ah, now you're talking .............

Can you imagine going into a Pub any Pub in Dublin & ordering a pint of 'Old Liffey' Real Ale - 'Molly's Barrow' 'Paisleys Tea' 'Carraig Dubh' or even a Pint of 'BeJasus' Real Ale, or any indigenous Irish Real Ale on Tap . . .

It would be Grrrrrrrrrrrreat

BeerNut

There are people out there who are trying to create just that, but it's not easy to break into the market. We can do our bit by showing pubs we're not interested in yet another pint of dull Diageo/Heineken beer.

LordSutch

Indeed ~ I recently looked up the 'The Porterhouse' (Bray) in relation to this Thread, and apparently they sell 'Real Ale' on Tap .....

Or, at least they claimed to do so several weeks ago ~ in reality they dont.

So I rang Porterhouse HQ to confirm either way, and they were very interested to know that there might be a market for 'Real Ale' outside of the City Centre, the woman said that instead of taking the advertisement off the website, she would suggest to the powers that be "that Bray actually sell the stuff" ...............

I must take a wonder down there in the near future.

BeerNut

Camelot wrote: »

So I rang Porterhouse HQ to confirm either way

Nice one. This is how the revolution happens.

fatboypee

the bolt wrote: »

.... i dont think the demand is there for most of them ,bearing in mind the skill involved in keeping them in tip top condition....

I'm not so sure there's no demand, moreover, theres a lack of interest due largely to a lack of awareness / exposure. If we're talking cask ales,then we begin with ales and there has to be an interest in 'ales' due to the sale of that crap called smithwicks... Beginning with maybe a 'better' ale may start the revolution in earnest... (mmmm Rusty might be the best start)....

Agree wholeheartedly re CAMRA, however, one caveat to that, regardless of the anality of the organisation, when they recommend a pub, it gets a good bit of publicity... perhaps we need somethin here like that...(for ales)....

FBP..