Harney on Today FM

anonymous_joe

I do and I don't agree.

I don;t doubt that the health service's budget is horrendously overstretched (and probably not as well used as could be) but I do think the government should be able to find the money for this.

Then again, I wonder how many people who could afford to pay for this treatment themselves have it. I've honestly got no idea.

Ginny

The Mustard wrote: »

I am not saying Harney is right, but there are plenty of parents who could afford to pay for their daughters to be vaccinated.

http://www.irishhealth.com/index.html?level=4&id=13692. The cost is given as being €390 for a 3-injection course. I assume that that would reflect the cost per patient for the government, so maybe it would be more for parents to pay individually.

In any case, do people think that parents who can afford to pay - should?

AFAIK its €600 each.

faceman

Ginny wrote: »

AFAIK its €600 each.

The cost of treating a person for cervical cancer could pay for more than just a few vaccines even at €600.

stevoman

holy crap look at the poll results. do any women actually use boards????? Feck this im off to match.com

mumhaabu

I'd love if someone like Michael O'Leary or Tony O'Reilly stood up and said I'll fund the €10million plus free flights to each receptive patient it would really throw some muck in both Harneys and the Governments face. Why not cut a few thousand off the dole or deport a share of asylum seekers to pay for it. These cuts are madness the cuts they should make is sack at least 50,000 useless civil servants who are a massive waste of space.

Turd Ferguson

Michael O Leary? Yeah, he'd be selling the vaccine on the cheap.
Fuck it, everyone getting it will share needles and you need to bring your own plaster.

mikemac

mumhaabu wrote: »

These cuts are madness the cuts they should make is sack at least 50,000 useless civil servants who are a massive waste of space.

50,000 you say?
Could be difficult since there are only 35,000 civil servants in Ireland. And are all of them useless in your opinion?

The Civil Service...... employing over 35,000 people in over thirty different departments/Offices.

stevoman

mumhaabu wrote: »

These cuts are madness the cuts they should make is sack at least 50,000 useless civil servants who are a massive waste of space.

Sorry but i have to lauph. Firstly the is nowhere near 50000 civil servants in the country. secondly they prob make the smallest wages out of all public servents and thirdely i havent heard a peep out of the private sector when times were so good, but as soon as times get bad the linch mobs surface and go looking for civil service blood.

mickoneill30

stevoman wrote: »

i havent heard a peep out of the private sector when times were so good, but as soon as times get bad the linch mobs surface and go looking for civil service blood.

You never hear a peep out of the private sectore. Our jobs aren't safe. It was the public sector that wanted parity when times were good. Now that times are bad paritys not important anymore.

stevoman

mickoneill30 wrote: »

You never hear a peep out of the private sectore. Our jobs aren't safe. It was the public sector that wanted parity when times were good. Now that times are bad paritys not important anymore.

there were plenty of open competitions going for civil service jobs when times were good. anyone who chose that career knew exactly that were taking a job that didnt have the best of pay, but compenstated with job security.

i know a civil servant who had been lauphed at by all his friends during the celtic tiger about how his wages were crap and they made so much more money than he did. he didnt let it get to him because he had the hindsight to realise that the arse was eventually going to fall out of the country at some stage and he's be glad of his job. now that time as come and just as he predicted the arse has fallen out. now its paid off, instead of leaving the civil service and looking for a higher paid job.

Ponster

danniemcq wrote: »

it is a vaccine in the same way that smallpox was destroyed by vaccinations, cervical cancer could be too. The point is there is right now a simple, effective and relativley cheap way to prevent this and it's not happening and it makes me sick.

That isn't actually true. smallpox vaccine protected 100% of the people. Once you got the vaccine you went on with your life as normal. Even with the existing cervical cancer vaccine every women will still have to undergo repeated smear-tests as the vaccine doesn't work 100% of the time.

panda100

faceman wrote: »

As much as I dont like Harney I dont believe for a second that she willfully thinks its acceptable for people to die just because they are from disadvantaged areas,

Well by creating a two tier health service where If you have money you get the best treatment possible and no money gets you a long waiting list in a cramped-MRSA ridden hospital, Harney and Fianna Fail have created a system that its alright for people to die If there from disadvantaged areas.


As I've said before there are many ways for the health service to get money, but It means trampelling on the toes of Fianna Fail party doners.
They gave tax breaks to allow property developers and millionare's to build private hospitals on public land.
They allow private health insurance companies a tax relief which costs the state €94 million a year.
The top HSE executives are on €370,000 a year on top of a €40,000 relocation allowance,pension provision of 25%, with an added bonus this year of €80,000
the list goes on and on.......

I dont really buy this we have no money line. Its a bit of a kick in the teeth really.Only a few weeks ago the goverment made available €400 billion to copperfasten the bonuses and salarys of the banking elite. Yet now the goverment have 'no money' to secure the lives of thousands of women in years to come.

mumhaabu wrote: »

I'd love if someone like Michael O'Leary or Tony O'Reilly stood up and said I'll fund the €10million plus free flights to each receptive patient it would really throw some muck in both Harneys and the Governments face.

What was the name of that millionare who bailed out the FAI last year? O'Brien? Maybe the billionare tax exiles can fund this vaccination programme instead of buying italian soccer managers?

javaboy

panda100 wrote: »

Well by creating a two tier health service where If you have money you get the best treatment possible and no money gets you a long waiting list in a cramped-MRSA ridden hospital, Harney and Fianna Fail have created a system that its alright for people to die If there from disadvantaged areas.

Show me a country without a two tier health system. If you have millions in the bank, you're entitled to spend it on the best care. So there will always be tiers.

Only a few weeks ago the goverment made available €400 billion to copperfasten the bonuses and salarys of the banking elite. Yet now the goverment have 'no money' to secure the lives of thousands of women in years to come.

They don't have that €400 billion and they haven't "made it available". It's a worst case scenario fund in the event of the collapse of an Irish bank. In fact part of that deal was that the banks would stump up money now to add liquidity to the state.

What was the name of that millionare who bailed out the FAI last year? O'Brien?

Yep Denis O'Brien. He didn't bail the FAI out. He just paid a huge chunk of the salary for a top manager.

Maybe the billionare tax exiles can fund this vaccination programme instead of buying italian soccer managers?

Maybe so. There was a letter in the Irish Times on Saturday I think to that effect.

gerrycollins

faceman wrote: »

I agree, i was really annoyed at D'arcy correcting her facts just because he claimed to have done "his research" and he read it somewhere that his facts were right.

I agree, for whats its worth I'm totally against the route she has taken, even thought she has a fair point I think its madness not to run both programmes together.

Darcy on the other hand was a total idiot. Apart from questioning her on the obvious he never had a good argument, he tried to make her tie herself up but his research on one or two points was mentioned by mary herself only a min before and agreeded on by her it was near comical apart from the seriousness of the issue been discussed.

thebman

stevoman wrote: »

holy crap look at the poll results. do any women actually use boards????? Feck this im off to match.com

Clearly there are at least 12 :rolleyes:

Although maybe they found the poll confusing or they are just confused

faceman

gerrycollins wrote: »

I agree, for whats its worth I'm totally against the route she has taken, even thought she has a fair point I think its madness not to run both programmes together.

Darcy on the other hand was a total idiot. Apart from questioning her on the obvious he never had a good argument, he tried to make her tie herself up but his research on one or two points was mentioned by mary herself only a min before and agreeded on by her it was near comical apart from the seriousness of the issue been discussed.

It did seem like he was trying to catch her out on a technicality rather than fundamentals.

AckwelFoley

If u want the vaccine u can pay for it.

if i want a tooth removed i pay for it.

if i want an ipod, i pay for it.

everybody wants everything for free nowadays

nouveau_4.0

snyper wrote: »

If u want the vaccine u can pay for it.

if i want a tooth removed i pay for it.

if i want an ipod, i pay for it.

everybody wants everything for free nowadays

Exactly, if I'm not mistaken the vaccine is about €400, which works out at a little under €8 a week, about €1 a day.

To put that in perspective if Mammy or Daddy went without that extra drink down the pub / smoked a pack less of cigarettes once a week / went without their cup of coffee on the way to work they could afford this. With all the talk of squeezing a little more out of the HSE's budget maybe we should look at ourselves first. Although then we won't be able to afford that new flatscreen tv.

And if you can't afford it, wait a year or two and you'll be vaccinated for free.

zxcvbnm1

Ya - D'arcy wasn't great was he?

He thought he was great - but he wasn't.

That story abut the bus driver was ridiculous.

WHat was the point he was trying to make?

I'm sure there are a million stories like that out there for any large induistry.
It's not a perfect science.
It was hardly a knockout punch like he thought it was as he delivered it.

He actually let on he was sorry for bringing it up but then said it was harney who bought the argument down to that level.

I think not ray !

4zn76tysfajdxp

Since when does D'Arcy have government ministers on his fúcking show? It was just an excuse for D'Arcy to play the big interviewer. I think our Health system is a bit out of Fix-it Friday's reach tbh.






Not that I listened to it or anything...

mikemac

nouveau_4.0 wrote: »

And if you can't afford it, wait a year or two and you'll be vaccinated for free.

In a year or two, the government budget will be in even worse of a state then it is now so even less possibility of it being introduced.

Viscosity

Everytime I happen to hear the Ray Darcy show on the radio, I keep thinking that someone has bugged a Peter Marks and broadcast the mindless chatter between the stylists. They should stick to what they know like discussing their favourite colour, the weather and where they're going on holidays.

It's going to be an interesting period in Irish politics, many of the people acting hysterically in the face of cuts in education and health spending don't realise that they're sucking a dying sow.

Micky Dolenz

danniemcq wrote: »

the fact is this isn't a check or a test or anything like that. it is a vaccine in the same way that smallpox was destroyed by vaccinations, cervical cancer could be too. Yes if breast checks were free and defibtillators were in every house it would save lives but it couldn't be done as it would cost to much. The point is there is right now a simple, effective and relativley cheap way to prevent this and it's not happening and it makes me sick.

very well put. no sensible person could argue with that logic.

teafortwo

Biggins wrote: »

Well seeing as they spend 90 million every year on consultants, maybe with a few cuts there going to be made, the vaccination's can be re-introduced - but then again, that would involve Harness Harney using her brain as well as her cold heart!

90 Million Consultant fees: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/government-forking-out-836417m-each--week-on-consultants-1530974.html

I read this article and it's not in reference to medical consultants. it's those people they consult before doing big government projects and things. i think the way some ministers tried to blame budget cuts on doctors was ridiculous and should be an embarrassment for them (the gps in the over 70s medical card debacle).

To get back to the topic at hand. A cure for cancer has become available and Harney has turned it down. This is such an amzing breakthrough and such a simple way to prevent such awful deaths it is shocking and appalling that she would refuse it at all, let alone go back on the government's word after the decision was made to implement a vaccination regime. if nothing is done about this (and knowing our government this is likely), i hope that parents take the initiative and go to their gp to get the vaccine for their child, whatever the cost.

tritium

nouveau_4.0 wrote: »

With all the talk of squeezing a little more out of the HSE's budget maybe we should look at ourselves first. Although then we won't be able to afford that new flatscreen tv.

no, that would involve taking personal responsibility for something, and we don't do that in this country!

We blame the goverment not the people who were dumb enough to be bribed by them at election time.

We blame them for blowing the Celtic Tiger even though we could have called halt at any election we wanted, but instead demanded tax cuts.

We blame the banks for lending even though they never held a gun to anyones head to buy that second or third house.

We blame the HSE even though, for all their flaws, we accepted a low tax regime that guaranteed health would never be free.

We want anyone to pay but ourselves, regardless of whether we can afford it

Bin charges - someone else should fund it!

The health service - someone else should fund it

Education - someone else should fund it

Never mind living in reality and doing the sums, just rally the mob by talking about the millionaires who don't pay tax! God forbid that we should have to shell out for anything

honestly, there are times when this country is sickening....

Viscosity

tritium wrote: »

no, that would involve taking personal responsibility for something, and we don't do that in this country!

We blame the goverment not the people who were dumb enough to be bribed by them at election time.

We blame them for blowing the Celtic Tiger even though we could have called halt at any election we wanted, but instead demanded tax cuts.

We blame the banks for lending even though they never held a gun to anyones head to buy that second or third house.

We blame the HSE even though, for all their flaws, we accepted a low tax regime that guaranteed health would never be free.

We want anyone to pay but ourselves, regardless of whether we can afford it

Bin charges - someone else should fund it!

The health service - someone else should fund it

Education - someone else should fund it

Never mind living in reality and doing the sums, just rally the mob by talking about the millionaires who don't pay tax! God forbid that we should have to shell out for anything

honestly, there are times when this country is sickening....

http://store.theonion.com/i-wish-somebody-would-do-something-about-how-fat-i-am-p-96.html

mickoneill30

teafortwo wrote: »

A cure for cancer has become available and Harney has turned it down.

Or to put it a teeny bit more accurately. A vaccine which is not 100% effective for one particular type of cancer that could have prevented 111 cases in 2004 and killed 93 people (I don't know the numbers for other years) has become available and has been deferred until 2010.

I don't agree with Harneys decision either but you sound like an opposition party member when you talk like that. It's a stupid enough decision without having to resort to exaggeration.

mickoneill30

tritium wrote: »

Never mind living in reality and doing the sums, just rally the mob by talking about the millionaires who don't pay tax! God forbid that we should have to shell out for anything

Ah tritium that's the whole point. If it's always somebody elses fault then we don't have to do anything about it. It's easier (safer) that way.

Boggle

Or to put it a teeny bit more accurately. A vaccine which is not 100% effective for one particular type of cancer that could have prevented 111 cases in 2004 and killed 93 people (I don't know the numbers for other years) has become available and has been deferred until 2010.

No it hasn't. It may or may not become available next year but unless they change the rules so that 13 year olds now get it then they will have to vaccinate 12 and 13 year olds, at twice the cost of this year. So next year, when the economy is in worse shape you believe that she will find 20 million??

As for Darcy's interview, he was a bit abrupt but in fairness I can understand why... Every time a politician is asked a simple answer they always respond with a rehearsed speech instead of answering the question and I'm sick of it - too many of our electorate are stupid people (how else can you explain the most corrupt and incompetent party imaginable getting elected time after time) and stupid people are easily distracted by spin.

Never mind living in reality and doing the sums, just rally the mob by talking about the millionaires who don't pay tax! God forbid that we should have to shell out for anything

honestly, there are times when this country is sickening....

Bottom line here,take the ten million away from the builder bailout and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Cut out the budgets for PR and advertising stupid Quango's even. Take semi-retired Bertie's paycheck off him maybe??
For Christs sake, anyone who doesn't acknowledge that these cuts were avoidable needs to seriously read some newspapers every now and again...

javaboy

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

very well put. no sensible person could argue with that logic.

Of course they could. Smallpox and cervical cancer aren't equivalent. AFAIK cervical cancer is not contagious like smallpox. Smallpox is an infectious disease. If it's wiped out completely via vaccine, it won't come back.

The same thing can't be said about cervical cancer. Vaccinating every single woman in the world against cervical cancer in one go wouldn't eradicate it permanently.