Harney on Today FM

danniemcq

Just after listening to Today Fm with her being interviewed about cervical cancer and that the vaccination that was supposed to be given to all 12 year old girls next year has ben put off with no other date set as 10 million out of a budger of 1.6 billion can't be found.

Mary on behalf of the nation thanks for giving god knows how many women a death sentance I hope it doesn't keep you awake at night the way other famlies will be up mourning their mothers, sisters, aunts, friends or daughters.

I have added a poll to see if there is a difference in opinions in the sexes. It is a private vote so don't worry about your privacy

Mint Sauce

not defending harney on this, think its mad what shes doing, but found it hard to get a balanced aguement from it, darcy didn't really give her a chance

Biggins

Well seeing as they spend 90 million every year on consultants, maybe with a few cuts there going to be made, the vaccination's can be re-introduced - but then again, that would involve Harness Harney using her brain as well as her cold heart!

90 Million Consultant fees: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/government-forking-out-836417m-each--week-on-consultants-1530974.html

Guru Maith Agut

irish-stew wrote: »

darcy didn't really give her a chance

He couldn't, he gets too emotive about the topics that he ends up talking to people about and just likes to hear himself rant about it! Should have left it to Jooooooeeeee Duffyyyyyyyy. Good afternoon to you Mary Harney.

Pat Mustard

I am not saying Harney is right, but there are plenty of parents who could afford to pay for their daughters to be vaccinated.

http://www.irishhealth.com/index.html?level=4&id=13692. The cost is given as being €390 for a 3-injection course. I assume that that would reflect the cost per patient for the government, so maybe it would be more for parents to pay individually.

In any case, do people think that parents who can afford to pay - should?

danniemcq

The Mustard wrote: »

I am not saying Harney is right, but there are plenty of parents who could afford to pay for their daughters to be vaccinated.

http://www.irishhealth.com/index.html?level=4&id=13692. The cost is given as being €390 for a 3-injection course. I assume that that would reflect the cost per patient for the government, so maybe it would be more for parents to pay individually.

In any case, do people think that parents who can afford to pay - should?

so what happens the ones that can't? you can't put a price on life i know but people still won't be able to afford it. Look at A&E any day of the week, it was 55 or something a pop or so before the budget (it's gone up now hasn't it?) and the medical cards paid for how many of these visits that people couldn't afford otherwise

Yes it is true that those who can afford it may do it themselves but surely it is in the goverments best interests if the immunise now to save money in the future. what is it they say for every euro spent now saves twenty in the future

Jip

There's been a few comments on this posted in the massive Lost the Plot thread in the Radio forum.

javaboy

danniemcq wrote: »

Mary on behalf of the nation thanks for giving god knows how many women a death sentance I hope it doesn't keep you awake at night the way other famlies will be up mourning their mothers, sisters, aunts, friends or daughters.

That's a bit hysterical isn't it? A few months ago there was no prospect of the vaccine anyway.
Has she given god knows how many women a death sentence by not making breast check available free to all ages? Has she given a death sentence to god knows how many fat people by not distributing free defibrillators to all homes?

Personally I think rolling back on the vaccine is a huge mistake. At the very least it's a bad political decision. But still using language like "death sentence" puts you firmly in the "won't somebody please think of the children" category and doesn't really help the cause.

Trev M

Save money in the future ? Mmmm The future is now my friend , and unless YOU PAY you will not get the benefit of a decent / top class health service depending on how you want to look at it.

You cant put a price on life , but they are gonna damn well put a price on decent health care and YOU WILL PAY IT or you wont get it in this country.

As disgusting as this whole thing is , its how Ireland Inc. is run and as a society we're getting exactly what we deserve I fear.

We dont tax the wealthy in this country, we bury the working/middle class earners. We cut back on essential services to the vulnerable, provision Health, Education, Care of the elderly and continue to spend bloated budgets on expanding quangos and vested interests... its been well debated over the course of recent weeks through the budget debate... the Ceptic Tiger in all its glory ..behold!

Guru Maith Agut

javaboy wrote: »

That's a bit hysterical isn't it?

Yeah exactly!!

...and what's a cervical anyway. :rolleyes:

sorrywhat

I heard the whole interview.

Although I dont agree with what harney is doing she really didnt get to get her point across cos darcy kept speaking over her.

The whole point of a debate is to hear the 2 sides.

I dont think there was any benefit to having her on the darcy show as mentioned above he does get way to emotional about some of the guests he has on.

Ms Harney will need go and think about this whole mess though becuase she has left a lot of people out raged.

But the interview was crap cos it was just 2 people talking over each other.

Trev M

Guru Maith Agut wrote: »

Yeah exactly!!

...and what's a cervical anyway. :rolleyes:

I think its something you use to kill old people who cost tax payers money .... its either that or some kinda corporate grinding machine that uses old people as raw material to feed the plebs...ala Soylent Green :pac:

faceman

sorrywhat wrote: »

I heard the whole interview.

Although I dont agree with what harney is doing she really didnt get to get her point across cos darcy kept speaking over her.

The whole point of a debate is to hear the 2 sides.

I dont think there was any benefit to having her on the darcy show as mentioned above he does get way to emotional about some of the guests he has on.

Ms Harney will need go and think about this whole mess though becuase she has left a lot of people out raged.

But the interview was crap cos it was just 2 people talking over each other.

I agree, i was really annoyed at D'arcy correcting her facts just because he claimed to have done "his research" and he read it somewhere that his facts were right.

The nasty comments about her were out of place too. Granted its a backward thinking decision in my opinion but Im not a doctor. As much as I dont like Harney I dont believe for a second that she willfully thinks its acceptable for people to die just because they are from disadvantaged areas, as Darcy put it.

The main point Darcy should have focussed on was that by spending dosh on preventing cancer, you are saving in the long term by not having to treat those patients etc. After all it costs alot more than €390 to cure cancer!

Turd Ferguson

I've got something that can be given to all 12 year old girls


She needs the monies for moar pies

Guru Maith Agut

Trev M wrote: »

grinding machine

:eek:

Trev M

faceman wrote: »

The main point Darcy should have focussed on was that by spending dosh on preventing cancer, you are saving in the long term by not having to treat those patients etc. After all it costs alot more than €390 to cure cancer!

Looks like we have ourselevs a thinker here - {Release the hounds}

danniemcq

javaboy wrote: »

That's a bit hysterical isn't it? A few months ago there was no prospect of the vaccine anyway.
Has she given god knows how many women a death sentence by not making breast check available free to all ages? Has she given a death sentence to god knows how many fat people by not distributing free defibrillators to all homes?

the fact is this isn't a check or a test or anything like that. it is a vaccine in the same way that smallpox was destroyed by vaccinations, cervical cancer could be too. Yes if breast checks were free and defibtillators were in every house it would save lives but it couldn't be done as it would cost to much. The point is there is right now a simple, effective and relativley cheap way to prevent this and it's not happening and it makes me sick.

Guru Maith Agut

Turd Ferguson wrote: »

She needs the monies for moar pies

That was LoL

Turd Ferguson wrote: »

I've got something that can be given to all 12 year old girls

That's just sick!

SheroN

faceman wrote: »

I agree, i was really annoyed at D'arcy correcting her facts just because he claimed to have done "his research" and he read it somewhere that his facts were right.

The nasty comments about her were out of place too. Granted its a backward thinking decision in my opinion but Im not a doctor. As much as I dont like Harney I dont believe for a second that she willfully thinks its acceptable for people to die just because they are from disadvantaged areas, as Darcy put it.

The main point Darcy should have focussed on was that by spending dosh on preventing cancer, you are saving in the long term by not having to treat those patients etc. After all it costs alot more than €390 to cure cancer!

Is there a copy of the interview anywhere on line?

Jip

sorrywhat wrote: »

IBut the interview was crap cos it was just 2 people talking over each other.

It was crap alright but wasn't because there were 2 people taking over each other, there was only one person talking over the other and that was Darcy. Way to try win a debate Mr "Won't someone think of the children, no wait, won't someone think of my daughter" Darcy.

javaboy

danniemcq wrote: »

the fact is this isn't a check or a test or anything like that. it is a vaccine in the same way that smallpox was destroyed by vaccinations, cervical cancer could be too. Yes if breast checks were free and defibtillators were in every house it would save lives but it couldn't be done as it would cost to much. The point is there is right now a simple, effective and relativley cheap way to prevent this and it's not happening and it makes me sick.

Yeah and I agree with all that but saying she is signing the death sentences of god knows how many women makes it sound like she's committing genocide which isn't true or fair.

Trev M

Turd Ferguson wrote: »

She needs the monies for moar pies

Well Im laughin here

sorrywhat

SheroN wrote: »

Is there a copy of the interview anywhere on line?

im sure darcy will put it up on his website. i think he has a pod cast. may be wrong now.

nouveau_4.0

It was a ridiculous interview. I for one, would have been interested in what Harney had to say, if it was not for Ray D'Arcy shouting her down whenever she started to explain.

He reminded me of one Bill O Reilly, shouting down the interviewee and repeating the same emotive line over and over again. Ray really just wanted to shout at her and it was pitiful.

Harney kept her cool and answered all his questions when she got the chance.
She doesn't have unlimited funds in the health service so priorities have to be made, its the same in every health service in the world.

And D'Arcys story about the bus driver at the end was a cheap attempt to rescue a losing argument.

D'Arcy, leave the serious topics to Matt Cooper and go back to talking about how great it is to be a father and how you're so great for cycling to work.

danniemcq

javaboy wrote: »

Yeah and I agree with all that but saying she is signing the death sentences of god knows how many women makes it sound like she's committing genocide which isn't true or fair.

I understand your point but put bluntly well there is no other way to put it. i know it is a hard choice to make but the way she says if she introduces this it takes money from others but that doesn't have to be the case she has other options (see biggins post) and she has made her choice now

sorrywhat wrote: »

im sure darcy will put it up on his website. i think he has a pod cast. may be wrong now.

yeah there is a podcast but it is rarely updated maybe twice a month

Trev M

Whatever about Ray Darcy ... I think the outrage is in the context of cost , the actual practical life saving nature of it and ultimately teh fact that in a cost benefit analysis its a no brainer....

For me personally , when I look at other areas of government spending you can only shake your head and wonder WTF? I hold the minister accountable, teh government IS RESPONSIBLE... and until we start to hold them responsible , decisions like this will continue to be made "in the current climate". The government is responsible for all the people of this nation, they run a society not an enterprise...they are not cheilf executives they are public representatives , they work for us .....not as they seem to think the other way around. Vaccinate the kids NOW is my view!

thebman

Our health service desperately requires reform IMO.

I think Harney wanted to do this when she took the job, she genuinely seemed to want to sort out the mess but has lost the will to do this since because of all the objections from within the service.

I think its time she left and we got someone with enough motivation to do it to go through with it.

arybvtcw0eolkf

For something this important I'm not waiting on government funding.

I'm making an appointment to have my daughter vaccinated (and micro-chipped) tomorrow.

SV

What a load of bollocks.

mickoneill30

brim4brim wrote: »

Our health service desperately requires reform IMO.

I think Harney wanted to do this when she took the job, she genuinely seemed to want to sort out the mess but has lost the will to do this since because of all the objections from within the service.

I think its time she left and we got someone with enough motivation to do it to go through with it.

I agree with you there but who in their right mind could fix the health service. I'd say it's the kiss of death to anybodys career now.

Wurly

Well i just read yesterday that the tax payer forks out 1.2 million a week on consultancy fees.

They can't find the money, my hole!

I hope I never ever get sick in this country...

anonymous_joe

I do and I don't agree.

I don;t doubt that the health service's budget is horrendously overstretched (and probably not as well used as could be) but I do think the government should be able to find the money for this.

Then again, I wonder how many people who could afford to pay for this treatment themselves have it. I've honestly got no idea.

Ginny

The Mustard wrote: »

I am not saying Harney is right, but there are plenty of parents who could afford to pay for their daughters to be vaccinated.

http://www.irishhealth.com/index.html?level=4&id=13692. The cost is given as being €390 for a 3-injection course. I assume that that would reflect the cost per patient for the government, so maybe it would be more for parents to pay individually.

In any case, do people think that parents who can afford to pay - should?

AFAIK its €600 each.

faceman

Ginny wrote: »

AFAIK its €600 each.

The cost of treating a person for cervical cancer could pay for more than just a few vaccines even at €600.

stevoman

holy crap look at the poll results. do any women actually use boards????? Feck this im off to match.com

mumhaabu

I'd love if someone like Michael O'Leary or Tony O'Reilly stood up and said I'll fund the €10million plus free flights to each receptive patient it would really throw some muck in both Harneys and the Governments face. Why not cut a few thousand off the dole or deport a share of asylum seekers to pay for it. These cuts are madness the cuts they should make is sack at least 50,000 useless civil servants who are a massive waste of space.

Turd Ferguson

Michael O Leary? Yeah, he'd be selling the vaccine on the cheap.
Fuck it, everyone getting it will share needles and you need to bring your own plaster.

mikemac

mumhaabu wrote: »

These cuts are madness the cuts they should make is sack at least 50,000 useless civil servants who are a massive waste of space.

50,000 you say?
Could be difficult since there are only 35,000 civil servants in Ireland. And are all of them useless in your opinion?

The Civil Service...... employing over 35,000 people in over thirty different departments/Offices.

stevoman

mumhaabu wrote: »

These cuts are madness the cuts they should make is sack at least 50,000 useless civil servants who are a massive waste of space.

Sorry but i have to lauph. Firstly the is nowhere near 50000 civil servants in the country. secondly they prob make the smallest wages out of all public servents and thirdely i havent heard a peep out of the private sector when times were so good, but as soon as times get bad the linch mobs surface and go looking for civil service blood.

mickoneill30

stevoman wrote: »

i havent heard a peep out of the private sector when times were so good, but as soon as times get bad the linch mobs surface and go looking for civil service blood.

You never hear a peep out of the private sectore. Our jobs aren't safe. It was the public sector that wanted parity when times were good. Now that times are bad paritys not important anymore.

stevoman

mickoneill30 wrote: »

You never hear a peep out of the private sectore. Our jobs aren't safe. It was the public sector that wanted parity when times were good. Now that times are bad paritys not important anymore.

there were plenty of open competitions going for civil service jobs when times were good. anyone who chose that career knew exactly that were taking a job that didnt have the best of pay, but compenstated with job security.

i know a civil servant who had been lauphed at by all his friends during the celtic tiger about how his wages were crap and they made so much more money than he did. he didnt let it get to him because he had the hindsight to realise that the arse was eventually going to fall out of the country at some stage and he's be glad of his job. now that time as come and just as he predicted the arse has fallen out. now its paid off, instead of leaving the civil service and looking for a higher paid job.

Ponster

danniemcq wrote: »

it is a vaccine in the same way that smallpox was destroyed by vaccinations, cervical cancer could be too. The point is there is right now a simple, effective and relativley cheap way to prevent this and it's not happening and it makes me sick.

That isn't actually true. smallpox vaccine protected 100% of the people. Once you got the vaccine you went on with your life as normal. Even with the existing cervical cancer vaccine every women will still have to undergo repeated smear-tests as the vaccine doesn't work 100% of the time.

panda100

faceman wrote: »

As much as I dont like Harney I dont believe for a second that she willfully thinks its acceptable for people to die just because they are from disadvantaged areas,

Well by creating a two tier health service where If you have money you get the best treatment possible and no money gets you a long waiting list in a cramped-MRSA ridden hospital, Harney and Fianna Fail have created a system that its alright for people to die If there from disadvantaged areas.


As I've said before there are many ways for the health service to get money, but It means trampelling on the toes of Fianna Fail party doners.
They gave tax breaks to allow property developers and millionare's to build private hospitals on public land.
They allow private health insurance companies a tax relief which costs the state €94 million a year.
The top HSE executives are on €370,000 a year on top of a €40,000 relocation allowance,pension provision of 25%, with an added bonus this year of €80,000
the list goes on and on.......

I dont really buy this we have no money line. Its a bit of a kick in the teeth really.Only a few weeks ago the goverment made available €400 billion to copperfasten the bonuses and salarys of the banking elite. Yet now the goverment have 'no money' to secure the lives of thousands of women in years to come.

mumhaabu wrote: »

I'd love if someone like Michael O'Leary or Tony O'Reilly stood up and said I'll fund the €10million plus free flights to each receptive patient it would really throw some muck in both Harneys and the Governments face.

What was the name of that millionare who bailed out the FAI last year? O'Brien? Maybe the billionare tax exiles can fund this vaccination programme instead of buying italian soccer managers?

javaboy

panda100 wrote: »

Well by creating a two tier health service where If you have money you get the best treatment possible and no money gets you a long waiting list in a cramped-MRSA ridden hospital, Harney and Fianna Fail have created a system that its alright for people to die If there from disadvantaged areas.

Show me a country without a two tier health system. If you have millions in the bank, you're entitled to spend it on the best care. So there will always be tiers.

Only a few weeks ago the goverment made available €400 billion to copperfasten the bonuses and salarys of the banking elite. Yet now the goverment have 'no money' to secure the lives of thousands of women in years to come.

They don't have that €400 billion and they haven't "made it available". It's a worst case scenario fund in the event of the collapse of an Irish bank. In fact part of that deal was that the banks would stump up money now to add liquidity to the state.

What was the name of that millionare who bailed out the FAI last year? O'Brien?

Yep Denis O'Brien. He didn't bail the FAI out. He just paid a huge chunk of the salary for a top manager.

Maybe the billionare tax exiles can fund this vaccination programme instead of buying italian soccer managers?

Maybe so. There was a letter in the Irish Times on Saturday I think to that effect.

gerrycollins

faceman wrote: »

I agree, i was really annoyed at D'arcy correcting her facts just because he claimed to have done "his research" and he read it somewhere that his facts were right.

I agree, for whats its worth I'm totally against the route she has taken, even thought she has a fair point I think its madness not to run both programmes together.

Darcy on the other hand was a total idiot. Apart from questioning her on the obvious he never had a good argument, he tried to make her tie herself up but his research on one or two points was mentioned by mary herself only a min before and agreeded on by her it was near comical apart from the seriousness of the issue been discussed.

thebman

stevoman wrote: »

holy crap look at the poll results. do any women actually use boards????? Feck this im off to match.com

Clearly there are at least 12 :rolleyes:

Although maybe they found the poll confusing or they are just confused

faceman

gerrycollins wrote: »

I agree, for whats its worth I'm totally against the route she has taken, even thought she has a fair point I think its madness not to run both programmes together.

Darcy on the other hand was a total idiot. Apart from questioning her on the obvious he never had a good argument, he tried to make her tie herself up but his research on one or two points was mentioned by mary herself only a min before and agreeded on by her it was near comical apart from the seriousness of the issue been discussed.

It did seem like he was trying to catch her out on a technicality rather than fundamentals.

AckwelFoley

If u want the vaccine u can pay for it.

if i want a tooth removed i pay for it.

if i want an ipod, i pay for it.

everybody wants everything for free nowadays

nouveau_4.0

snyper wrote: »

If u want the vaccine u can pay for it.

if i want a tooth removed i pay for it.

if i want an ipod, i pay for it.

everybody wants everything for free nowadays

Exactly, if I'm not mistaken the vaccine is about €400, which works out at a little under €8 a week, about €1 a day.

To put that in perspective if Mammy or Daddy went without that extra drink down the pub / smoked a pack less of cigarettes once a week / went without their cup of coffee on the way to work they could afford this. With all the talk of squeezing a little more out of the HSE's budget maybe we should look at ourselves first. Although then we won't be able to afford that new flatscreen tv.

And if you can't afford it, wait a year or two and you'll be vaccinated for free.

zxcvbnm1

Ya - D'arcy wasn't great was he?

He thought he was great - but he wasn't.

That story abut the bus driver was ridiculous.

WHat was the point he was trying to make?

I'm sure there are a million stories like that out there for any large induistry.
It's not a perfect science.
It was hardly a knockout punch like he thought it was as he delivered it.

He actually let on he was sorry for bringing it up but then said it was harney who bought the argument down to that level.

I think not ray !

4zn76tysfajdxp

Since when does D'Arcy have government ministers on his fúcking show? It was just an excuse for D'Arcy to play the big interviewer. I think our Health system is a bit out of Fix-it Friday's reach tbh.






Not that I listened to it or anything...