[US] DollHouse [** Spoilers **] (Renewed!)

fugazied

basquille wrote: »

Eliza looks "teh sex" in that.. yummy! :eek:

But after seeing the trailer, does it remind anyone else slightly of 'My Own Worst Enemy'? The new drama starring Christian Slater, currently airing on NBC.

Still, very much looking forward to this.

Thankfully it doesn't have much in common with My Own Worst Enemy, that show was simply awful. I have high hopes for dollhouse, I think it has room to grow and become more interesting as a show.

lostexpectation

you missed out drive eamon, you're not a real fan

Basq

Sorry, I didn't think much of the Dollhouse pilot either.

It sounds odd to say but it was just poorly written for the most part ("you ever try and clean a slate?" :rolleyes:), characters were largely uninteresting, Dushku's acting seems to have gotten worse (someone should tell her confidence != good acting).

I know I read somewhere that the pilot for this had a similar faith as Firefly.. this was actually more the second episode of the series (which Fox wanted to show first, reminiscent of Fox showing Firefly's second episode 'The Train Job' first instead of the pilot).

But for a pilot, we needed to see more of the Dollhouse. More of Echo's backstory and past - maybe we'll get this in the second episode but it was just seemed like a thrown-together pilot.

Definitely the poorest thing Joss has been involved with.. let's hope it improves before Fox sends it the way of many Tim Minear series before it!

On the upside, he is working on more Dr Horrible.

J-blk

Isn't going ahead and complaining how crap the pilot was or that it the "worst thing ever" Joss Whedon has ever done based on one episode, exactly what we all don't want American audiences and subsequently FOX to do? Most shows easily take 3-5 episodes to hit their stride and with Whedon's stories it can sometimes be almost an entire season before his shows really get going. Of course in today's TV landscape, that's very bad, as in most cases your show is screwed if it doesn't wow people from the pilot but I think it's a bit unfair to be judging if the show should live on or not based on the pilot (which was never meant to be the pilot too...).

Basq

J-blk wrote: »

Isn't going ahead and complaining how crap the pilot was or that it the "worst thing ever" Joss Whedon has ever done based on one episode, exactly what we all don't want American audiences and subsequently FOX to do? Most shows easily take 3-5 episodes to hit their stride and with Whedon's stories it can sometimes be almost an entire season before his shows really get going. Of course in today's TV landscape, that's very bad, as in most cases your show is screwed if it doesn't wow people from the pilot but I think it's a bit unfair to be judging if the show should live on or not based on the pilot (which was never meant to be the pilot too...).

Well, I'm a firm believer that a poor pilot is enough to turn most audiences away from regular viewing. I'll keep watching but American audiences aren't as patient. If Fox wanted to keep American audiences, they should have respected Joss's wishes to keep the initial pilot.

Regarding the poor pilot scenerio, of course it can become a great show. A prime example of this being 'True Blood' - probably the worst pilot of last year turned into my fabourite show. And yet the 'True Blood' thread here had maybe 3 - 4 regular contributors. It's a shame!

It's not unheard of.. I loathed the 'Heroes' pilot too and that changed my mind (well, for the first season anyways).

I probably was a bit cruel in my first post above.. it could be great but I don't know whether to blame Joss or Fox for that piss-poor first episode. It could have been great - where was the Dollhouse backstory? What exactly is Olivia Williams character in the whole thing? How did Echo end up there? Christ, there's 1000 other questions that should have been at least addressed. But yet it was a kidnapping story that served zero fecking purpose.

As I've said, the pilot was disappointing to me. But I have a feeling the viewership will drop even more next week.. and I'm not sure who's to blame in the grand scheme of things.

ixoy

I had lowered my expectations for this, based on weak reviews here. Well unfortunately the pilot still didn't meet my lowered expectations. Basquille sums up a fair bit of what's wrong - the whole thing felt flat and there was none of the wit or smart one-liners that we watch JW's shows for. All the character were quite dull and the premise, which is reasonably interesting, didn't come across all that well. If I hadn't known it in advance, I'd have felt it was poorly explained to the audience.
To be honest but for the fact I knew better, I'd never have believed Whedon wrote this. It had none of the qualities I associate with him. I will watch the next few episodes of course, but for once I couldn't be angry with US audiences if they looked at this and found it severely lacking and didn't bother tuning in the following weeks.

Mr E

After all the negative sentiment above (and from glass-half-full people who normally see glimmers of promise), I think this show is screwed.

I should have known it was doomed when I saw Tim Minear's name in the credits.

J-blk

basquille wrote: »

Well, I'm a firm believer that a poor pilot is enough to turn most audiences away from regular viewing. I'll keep watching but American audiences aren't as patient. If Fox wanted to keep American audiences, they should have respected Joss's wishes to keep the initial pilot.

I definitely agree with that point - scripted shows can get canceled very quickly and American audiences are hugely inpatient but my point was that a lot of people here seem to be falling into the same way of thinking, judging the entire show on one episode. Of course, at the end of the day, our opinions here don't really matter for the fate of the show, since we don't have any effect on the ratings (not that most American households do but that's a rant for another time )...

The "pilot" definitely is not helping the show's case and it really wasn't a proper pilot episode (in trying to combine sort of setting up the premise but also incorporating a "story of the week" thread, it failed at both) so I'd give this at least another couple of episodes to see where it goes.

Is the initial pilot meant to air as one of the season 1 episodes (kinda like they did with Firefly) or has it been scrapped completely?

Mr E wrote: »

I should have known it was doomed when I saw Tim Minear's name in the credits.

Now all that remains to be seen if it can beat "Drive" as fastest-canceled show Minear was involved in (axed after 3 episodes!).

User45701

basquille wrote: »

Well, I'm a firm believer that a poor pilot is enough to turn most audiences away from regular viewing. I'll keep watching but American audiences aren't as patient. If Fox wanted to keep American audiences, they should have respected Joss's wishes to keep the initial pilot.

Regarding the poor pilot scenerio, of course it can become a great show. A prime example of this being 'True Blood' - probably the worst pilot of last year turned into my fabourite show. And yet the 'True Blood' thread here had maybe 3 - 4 regular contributors. It's a shame!

It's not unheard of.. I loathed the 'Heroes' pilot too and that changed my mind (well, for the first season anyways).

I probably was a bit cruel in my first post above.. it could be great but I don't know whether to blame Joss or Fox for that piss-poor first episode. It could have been great - where was the Dollhouse backstory? What exactly is Olivia Williams character in the whole thing? How did Echo end up there? Christ, there's 1000 other questions that should have been at least addressed. But yet it was a kidnapping story that served zero fecking purpose.

As I've said, the pilot was disappointing to me. But I have a feeling the viewership will drop even more next week.. and I'm not sure who's to blame in the grand scheme of things.

J-blk wrote: »

Isn't going ahead and complaining how crap the pilot was or that it the "worst thing ever" Joss Whedon has ever done based on one episode, exactly what we all don't want American audiences and subsequently FOX to do? Most shows easily take 3-5 episodes to hit their stride and with Whedon's stories it can sometimes be almost an entire season before his shows really get going. Of course in today's TV landscape, that's very bad, as in most cases your show is screwed if it doesn't wow people from the pilot but I think it's a bit unfair to be judging if the show should live on or not based on the pilot (which was never meant to be the pilot too...).

With the firefly pilot FOX wanted it re-written because it was too compicated and they wanted to see more of what the show would be like week on week.

Im guessing this is the same here, we know he had to rewrite the pilot elthough if i am right we where not told exectly why?

I assume this episode we saw was Joss's attempt to show fox the show on a week to week basis and yes im sure it was rushed so i think there will be an improvement.

My way to save this show would be to leak the next 3 or 4 episodes online because when that happens people download and watch back to back and its the back to back watching will get people wanting another episode and tuning in for ep 5 as well as spreading the show via word of mouth (ala weeds season 2 - first 4 episode where leaked a month before and the ratings where higher than they ever had been in season 1)

lostexpectation

(someone should tell her confidence != good acting)

amen to that she's in love with herself, and then her director is in love with her too big trouble.

Linku

lostexpectation wrote: »

(someone should tell her confidence != good acting)

amen to that she's in love with herself, and then her director is in love with her too big trouble.

She has a vanity exec producer title as well. This show won't last long.

bobbbb

I watched this.
Had high hopes for it.
But i dont think im gonna bother with any more of them. Muck.

J-blk

Second episode, "The Target" was definitely much better than the pilot. A lot more background on the Dollhouse, Alpha, the relationship between actives and handlers, etc - and the main story of the "engagement" Echo was sent on was a big step up from the whole kidnap plot of last week...

The humor isn't quite there yet, but there was a bit more of an attempt at it than last week. My favorite line was Echo's response to if she knows how to use a gun: "I have four brothers, none of them Democrats" .

There's still room for improvement, but this was more promising than last week...

User45701

*sigh*

Not great either, i was looking forward to this show for such a long time and it is a dissapointment. I liked two parts in this ep.

1: It had your man Ronald lampikin from BSG in it
2: I like the part in the ep when

the handler shot the guy in the legs as soon as he refused to cooperate

The show could be so much more. If it was a tad like outer limits in that different cast (active/handler) every ep would keep the show interesting and also keep costs down IF and i stress that IF it went to a second season. Have some actives reappear but by having different ones every ep it would be very interesting because you dont know if they will survive encounters like this one, i mean did any of you even for one second think that ecco or the handler would die?

It didnt hold my interest and i found myself alt tabing and watching parts in a minimised window while i had a flick around boards. (The overall season story arc looks interesting but the week to week episodes need something more)

4/10

matrim

i liked the second episode. Some good background story put in and a decent main story for the ep.
Plus it felt more like a wheadon show than the first ep.

iguana

User45701 wrote: »

i mean did any of you even for one second think that ecco or the handler would die?

This was a huge problem with this episode. Echo was obviously not going to die so there was zero tension. The dialogue is also very poor, which is strange for a Joss show. As Basquille mentioned; have you ever tried to clean a slate? Actually I have, it's really easy, that's where the blank slate saying comes from.

As I gave the dreadful Bionic woman 5 episodes I guess I'll give this at least that to hook me. Though I don't see this show lasting either.

Ivan

I really liked the second episode.
You either liked it and know why I liked it, or you didnt and my waffling on wont change that. Thats really all I have to say about that.

Lirange

I thought the pilot was tripe. I think the 2nd episode was watchable. It felt like this should have been the pilot. We were provided information that should've been part of last week.

The Alpha mystery has me interested. I wonder if

Echo could in fact be Alpha or have Alpha imprinted? Maybe the geek's been up to some rogue experimenting?

It's clear that Echo is different than the other Actives in some way. How so hasn't become clear yet. I hope that in the next couple episodes Ballard is given more prominence.

abelard

iguana wrote: »

This was a huge problem with this episode. Echo was obviously not going to die so there was zero tension.

Hang on a sec. If you find that a big problem, then do you just not watch the majority of character based shows or films that are released?

For the vast majority of shows, you have to watch with the expectation that the main character won't die.

Lirange

iguana wrote: »

have you ever tried to clean a slate? Actually I have, it's really easy, that's where the blank slate saying comes from.

I agree that series opener was dire but I'm not sure why this line bothers so much. The reply from Echo was that you can still observe traces of what was there before which is obviously foreshadowing.

Richard Dower

OK, so i'll admit i was wrong, the second was MUCH better, better plot and alot of background stuff going on. There were some genuine surprises in this ep., i did not expect her date to go psycho and hunt her, then we find out he's not just a client and other nice little subplots.

So i'll stick out a few more ep., if say by ep. 6 if it keeps my interest or not :-)

fugazied

I think the 2nd episode showed a little more promise, it revealed a few of the longer term plot points. I still think there is some potential for this show, I'm not giving up!

is_that_so

The Sex Pistols spring to mind here. It's all "Pretty Vacant". Very poor dialogue, pretty lead but paper bags could out-act her. The trouble with the premise is that it can quickly turn into the "imprint" of the week. Equally the central focus on Dushku means her needing a presence beyond just a pretty face. Having the likes of Reed Diamond and Olivia Williams just don't seem to help. Found the pilot poor and the 2nd episode was just an excuse for Eliza Dushku to run around and see visions of herself using the same type of pointless vision device of the FBI agent in the first episode. May look at one or two more but the really poor dialogue and the limits of the premise may see this one going quickly as well.

starn

I cant see this show lasting very long. The premise just isnt strong enough.The novalty of Echo beeing smeone different everyweek is going to wear off very quickly. I mean there is only so many hostage negotiator, girlfriend or commando stories they can tell. In reminds me of something that would of been made in the mid 90s.

Also Dusku just dosent have the acting range required, and the dude from BSG has been piss poor in the two episodes.

The show will be lucky if it lasts a season

User45701

starn wrote: »

I cant see this show lasting very long. The premise just isnt strong enough.The novalty of Echo beeing smeone different everyweek is going to wear off very quickly. I mean there is only so many hostage negotiator, girlfriend or commando stories they can tell. In reminds me of something that would of been made in the mid 90s.

Have to disagree with you on that one because every other show has the same thing happening ever week. i mean a show about hostage negotiator will be hostage negotiator every week. A speical forces show like the unit will be the same every week in that they go on a mission. the list goes on.

The new imprint every week is a very strong plot device that will hopefully get allot better because it stops a show from becoming very repetitive.

As i said not too impressed with the first two episodes, the show just needs a litte something more - maybe a bit of humour or tension or something because its not "doing it" for me at the moment.

Ivan wrote: »

I really liked the second episode.
You either liked it and know why I liked it, or you didnt and my waffling on wont change that. Thats really all I have to say about that.

Ivan - do you mind telling us what you did like about the ep? i was dying of a hangover - i might have missed something (but i dont think i did...)

Actually on another point - they stressed how valuable the actives are and the cost of replacing one - that i just dont get. From what we have seen they take people in who want to dissapear but really how many cases of missing persons are there a year? The house lacks ethics so they could replace a lost active without any trouble because the have the man power and resources to do it

Mr E

Second episode was much much better than the first. I think the first episode should have been 90 minutes long, and they should have spliced in some of the background stuff from episode 2, like:

- DeWitts 30 second explanation of the dollhouse in the first scene (badly needed in episode 1),
- Alpha's rampage (I had no idea who that guy at the end of episode 1 was, nor did I care - it would have made more sense to put the episode 1 ending at the end of episode 2)
- The Echo/Langton background stuff.

What I liked about this episode.... the Dollhouse background stuff, the twist about her date, Dominic's resentment towards Echo (in the last scene), the completely fabricated background for the guy in the woods (did Alpha provide it?).

And the last 2 seconds of the last scene showed me where the potential lies.

Viewing figures for Dollhouse are down half a million (4.2m this week vs. 4.7m last week), so my doom and gloom prophesy still stands.

Also Starring LeVar Burton

Episode 2 was much better, but still don't think it's strong enough to keep the Yanks watching. So far, it hasn't had the Buffy/Angel/Firefly feel to it that I was really looking forward to it. I'll watch for another few weeks and hopefully the show can pick up in that time and get a strong following.

lostexpectation

much better second ep, why make such ****ty pilot with so much time wasted on the first bit.

lots of background, filling people in, fair turn on the hunting people story, but wheres the funny

i avoided watching buffy for years cos i thought it was so silly, but then when i started watching it, i was like why didn't someone tell me this was so funny.

i can't really recommend this to my brother who never watched buffy.

GunScope

I have to agree with the majority of posters here the first episode didn't have the hook that a pilot should have and really what got me to keep watching is the fact that its a Joss Whendon show.

Eliza Dushku, while she is the eye candy, can't really act beyond the dark moodiness of the character Faith which she played in Buffy. I'm holding out for a few more episodes.

From watching it so far, just two episodes I can nearly tell what the twist will be .... that Echo herself is Alpha and she has been wiped and rewiped so many times due to her being the "most requested" active that her memories are starting to fade over .... i hope I'm wrong, but thats where I'm thinking they are going

iguana

GunScope wrote: »

From watching it so far, just two episodes I can nearly tell what the twist will be .... that Echo herself is Alpha and she has been wiped and rewiped so many times due to her being the "most requested" active that her memories are starting to fade over .... i hope I'm wrong, but thats where I'm thinking they are going

I was wondering that too although certain things indicate it isn't.

Amy Acker would know that Echo is Alpha and who sent the photo to Agent Helo?

I'm not sure these need to be in spoilers as they are just speculation.