M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

brianc89

Not sure why people assume there would be next to no people needing a Tuam rail link. This would connect Tuam with Dublin as well as Galway.

It would be a quick journey from Tuam to Athenry, combined with double track to Athenry, the journey to Galway would be quick. A P&R near Annagh Hill would also offer rail access to significant populations along the N63.

The Limerick to Galway line is very poor as the line is long, winding and slow. It's not a good comparison to opening Tuam.

WRC also offers freight opportunities which the government have recently placed more focus on.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120200560#Comment_120200560

Well that got personal very fast.

Which bit was personal?

From a category mod no less.

I'm not a CMod!

Plus as far as the Roads forum is concerned, I'm not a mod!

Says a hell of a lot as to why the Galway ring road thread is the only one that descends into a general “reasons to ditch the car” discussion as opposed to all the other road threads, and gets locked as a result.

Who said what you are claiming?

Also this thread is not locked.

“The national anti-roadbuilding movement...

There's a national anti-roadbuilding movement??? What do they call themselves? Have they a website?

...has focussed on Galway. My guess is because it is that movement’s greatest success.

What other successes has this organisation managed to get?

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120200636#Comment_120200636

Tuam to Galway via direct Google crow measure is 30 km, but via Athenry is 45 km. The rail link, if re-established is currently single track, and unlikely to be double tracked all the way any time soon. How frequent a service for Tuam to Galway would you envisage? Apart from end to end, where do you expect to gather passengers?

I do not see it as competition to a well resourced bus service - now or ever.

If we’re on about rail links, hear me out…

1. get the WRC line up and running, with eyes on that becoming part of a North-South spinal route, connect to a new-build connection from Sligo to Derry via Donegal (might be part of a reunification project after Border Poll up there). The chances of that project happening are beyond the scope of this thread, but if it’s on the cards it’s a compelling reason to get & keep the North-South line open.
2. Open a passing curve the far side of the motorway from Athenry, straight across from junction 17. Place a station with a park & Ride & call the station Galway Junction.

But back to National focus on a local issue.

Seth, between my last post & this the Category Mod posted an opinion. The ring road is held up by a national political movement against it. Not a sizable one, but one with a sympathetic legal system and ties to a global issue that can be leant on for ideological support. You are the Politics mod.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120200809#Comment_120200809

Seth, between my last post & this the Category Mod posted an opinion.

You quoted my post and claimed that I got personal

The ring road is held up by a national political movement against it. Not a sizable one, but one with a sympathetic legal system and ties to a global issue that can be leant on for ideological support.

You're now posting paranoid conspiracy theory nonsense. There is no national political movement that is anti-roads (even the greens aren't against roads!)

People are objecting to this because the entire plan is set to fail. Even the council admit that traffic will worsen and that itnwill increase our carbon emissions. There are no definite plans for improvements to public transport or active travel. It is a proposal to repeat the mistakes made in the past and increase the car dependency in Galway.

It will provide pretty much nothing of value to the place but will cost about a billion euro. Is that good value in your eyes?

You are the Politics mod.

...and what?

TnxM17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120200560#Comment_120200560

Hi Enoch.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120200725#Comment_120200725

It would be an awful shame to lose any chance of a WRC from Cork to Derry. Sure, existing sections of this are very slow but they could be gradually improved in the next 50-100years, as the western regional cities develop.

The idea that Tuam has no point or demand having a train station is extremely poor future planning. The comfort of trains will never be matched by buses.

brianc89

MODS, can some ground rules be set for this thread before it descends again to point of closure?

• people have very valid concerns on both sides of 'build or not'

• can people engage on middle ground solutions that tick boxes for everyone - the current stand alone road plan isn't happening.

• sarcastic comments, mud slinging and ideas that some green world order are conspiring against roads should be deleted

AnRothar

There's a national anti-roadbuilding movement??? What do they call themselves? Have they a website?

Here you go https://www.greenparty.ie/

TnxM17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120201337#Comment_120201337

While I think the discourse could be better, I think you’re entering dangerous territory with some comments above.

I no longer favour the present GCRR and don’t expect it to go ahead in its current form, but wouldn’t go as far as to say it’s definitely not happening. Even mentioning that could be inflammatory to those with an opposing view.

Also, there are some elements within the Green movements who are anti roads. This is a forum so debate and exchanges are part of it, the difference is if someone makes claim as opposed to an opinion, then they should back it up.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120200636#Comment_120200636

Tuam to Dublin would be outside the scope of the conversation in terms of access to Galway. Maybe its a conversation worth having, but it has no bearing in terms of Galway City and the alternatives to the GCRR

Same for freight. The volumes for rail freight in the west are tiny and there's still loads of capacity on the existing line. There's, I think, 3 freight customers on that line? Hardly justification for an additional line but either way, also outside the scope.

The only part of the WRC that has any bearing on this thread is the Limerick-Athenry section and the potential (maybe) for Tuam - Athenry. Even then, any Tuam line would take twice as long as a bus alternative once bus lanes are put in place

There's a WRC thread on the C&T forum where a lot of this has been covered previously

Not shutting you down, just highlighting that we're talking about alternatives to the GCRR and your points don't relate to that but they are valid points in relation to the WRC.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120201425#Comment_120201425

Can you point out where out their website they claim that they are against roads.

I'm not a member of them (or any other party) but I dont understand the vehement hatred for the greens when much of what people claim is untrue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120201686#Comment_120201686

It also doesn't stack up when you consider the support for bypassing of small towns

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/we-will-build-bypasses-instead-of-motorways-from-now-on-to-save-dying-irish-towns-eamon-ryan-40579975.html

https://www.leitrimobserver.ie/news/home/1017709/eamon-ryan-says-carrick-on-shannon-bypass-should-be-prioritised.html

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41062319.html

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/local-news/956876/sod-turned-on-44m-killaloe-bypass-investment.html

and so on

That being said, the one thing lacking from a lot of these bypass plans (as far as I've seen, though admittedly not all) is how space will be reallocated once the bypasses open. Building a bypass but not reallocating space is just fudging stoopid

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120201597#Comment_120201597

Yeah agreed the WRC is definitely outside of this. I'll respond to a few of your points above in the WRC thread.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120201441#Comment_120201441

I think "anti-road prioritization" is a fairer assessment. This country has prioritised roads over public transport forever and, yes, the Greens are definitely pushing for a new balance.

This stand alone road has too much opposition. If it wants approval, it has to be packaged directly with public transport provision.

Yikes, leave it behind to get into nature for the day and get back to this muck.

Anyways lads, I don’t think there’s any kind of organised “society for the prevention of roadbuilding”, with membership and politicians on puppet strings and brown envelopes and blah blah blah.

I’m just saying there’s three decades of interest from the wider Green movement (inside & outside the official party) in “the protection of Galway’s unique natural habitat” that isn’t replicated in other road projects. It’s hard to ignore the “vehicle hostile” environment that the current road network favours, and it makes sense to me that the wider movement would have an interest in keeping the status quo as a deterrent to growth in vehicle usage, and as a pressure point to push for their solutions to be implemented exclusively “or else”.

The anger this has riled up surprises & dismays me. And I have to wonder why you all take it so personal when I talk about the apparent (to me) need for the National Movememnt to deter this road, its predecessors, and I expect its successors, above all others.

DaCor, respectfully this-

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/we-will-build-bypasses-instead-of-motorways-from-now-on-to-save-dying-irish-towns-eamon-ryan-40579975.html

refers to a step-back of all roadbuilding. Bypasses are only accepted as a justification for culling hated motorways.

Seth,

i refer to your moderatorship of Politics because that place is a cesspit of politicos getting riled up which you’ve taken on the task of calming them the f*** down. I would expect you to know how not to post with red mist, like DaCor here. Please chill, I hope my previous post has answered your queries.

I had my blowout when I thought there was a possibility of raising a family in Galway. That’s not happening, both because of this and because of the wider cesspit that politico activists of other causes have created (*coughlandlordfreemarketers*). I’m no longer under that illusion, and I’m off to pastures new in the medium term, toa metropolitan area with decent transit & no emotional ties for me bar what I create when I get there. I’m not riled up, and I don’t post to rile up. I’d hope you recognise sh*tty red mist posting when you see it as a mod & not replicate it when you’re not modding. You’re better than that.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202438#Comment_120202438

I think people hate this road as it is very specifically designed to bring car drivers directly into industrial areas and places of employment.

This approach has not worked in other countries and has led to further congestion.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202469#Comment_120202469

Erm, road traffic. If it was car drivers you’d have disregard for height restrictions like the bridge underpasses in New York in the 60s. And while you talk about “this” road, there was a predecessor which was successfully strangled in the European Courts of Justice.

a link to a thread on indymedia on the previous attempt. (Watch your security, page is old so no certificate)

https://www.indymedia.ie/article/81855?author_name=null&condense_comments=true

Here’s a turnup for the books. 1967 opposition to bypasses in Galway. For pro-business reasons.

https://www.rte.ie/archives/2022/0622/1306241-galway-bypass-opposed/

You see, my point is the “movement” (those who oppose roadbuilding in Galway) would have been there since the previous iteration (as shown on indymedia above) and with the climate crisis have picked up a new generation of anti-roadies. The reasons change, but the opposition remains.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202676#Comment_120202676

There isn't an infrastructure project in the country over the last 40 years that hasn't had objections to it. Many are successful in their challenges, many are not.

Galway is not special in this regard.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202942#Comment_120202942

Can you name any other objection movements that have had the success of Galway’s?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202969#Comment_120202969

I don't deal with conspiracy theories about "movements"

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202969#Comment_120202969

Movements? Would you ever go away with that rubbish?

?Cee?view

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202676#Comment_120202676

For God’s sake, the greatest opponent to development in Galway is now the President. He’s their hero, and he condemned us to decades more sh*t floating in Galway Bay with his opposition to Mutton Island.

TLDR you’re dead right!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202972#Comment_120202972

The word “movement” is just a descriptor of an effort to effect a certain action such as a policy change, legislation or electoral change. No skulduggery meant to be implied.

But I do stand uncorrected by the silence of today’s advocates of the anti road movement. (Being told to “go away” doesn’t count). There may be inference of accuracy, there may not. It’s not for me to say, I’d be expected to say “yes” whether it was true or not.

I’ll state it again, clear as I can, just to ground it so it doesn’t meander. “A national anti-roadbuild movement has given Galway its attention for decades, far more than other roadbuilding projects in the country. It is my personal belief that this is due to the success of efforts in Galway, both now and in the past, to prevent roadbuilding plans from going ahead.”

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202676#Comment_120202676

You're helping your argument by going back to 1960s Ireland.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203271#Comment_120203271

Eh? Look that was about showing what went on as an aside. That’s separate to correcting loaded political terms.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203284#Comment_120203284

Okay sure, it was an aside.

It shouldn't be so hard to believe that a motorway ring-road of Galway (4th largest city) hasn't been built yet. The Dublin Galway motorway wasn't completed until 2009...

You don't need political conspiring theories to explain it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203351#Comment_120203351

Why do you guys keep using the word “conspiracy”? I don’t! It’s an observation that there’s a movement of people who don’t want to see roads built, for the reasons you all have mentioned on this thread, and in the whole country these people have seen the most success for that cause in Galway.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203371#Comment_120203371

What's your point?

Are you hoping the road will magically appear tomorrow morning, if someone here acknowledges the success of not building the GRR