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M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,286 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Free public transport attracts people who would otherwise walk or cycle but rarely people who would otherwise drive. The price of bus fare is too small to be a factor. Stopping cars crossing the corrib other than by qcb, removing parking and taking space from cars and giving it to sustainable modes is what will result in modal shift. Park and ride is also of little value. Parking is already abundant and mostly free outside the city, once you're in your car there's very little in the way of incentives that can get you out of it to complete your journey.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭KrisW1001



    Park-and-ride is the answer in Galway. There’s no way you can serve such a dispersed population as you see to the West of the city, with one house every 2-3 acres all the way along the coast. People living here will always need to drive, but driving is not a problem here: the problem is continuing to drive into the more densely-populated city suburbs. So, provide free parking every km or so along a high-frequency bus-rapid-transport corridor in and out of Galway.

    People don’t use buses because our bus services, with only the partial exception of Dublin, are inadequate: too few routes, no time-accuracy and low frequency.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,890 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    I remember back in 2010 that a Bus Lane and Cycle facilities length of Western Distributor Road WDR costed at €10 million (similar to the Seamus Quirke / Bishop O Donnell Road -> Galway City Council document for a Smarter Regional City bid; 13 years later the suburb with the densest Square km of people living in Galway City (a 500meter radius around Knockknacarra chuch) is still is without any dedicated public transport infrastructure.

    Galway City Council and Galway County continue with all there might to manufacturer the car traffic problem when the sit on simple / very cheap solutions like putting in Bus Lanes and Cycle Paths the length of Western Distributor Road WDR



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,890 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    This is a County Wide problem not just West of the City. We have the same issue but the no's are even greater for North, South and East Galway as well. The P&R needs to be a County towns at this point rather than dedicated P&R facilities at the edge of the City



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,679 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Also for a country that rains so fuking always the lack of shelters is appalling. Don't know what it's like in Galway but in Limerick most stops don't even have signs throughout the city and in the county your stop will be "outside Johnnys shed" or some shte.

    I know it's a bigger city but Cork also has a green leap zone for the commuter towns which could very easily be done for Limerick and Galway.

    As for free PT Tallinn tried that and as mentioned above it reduced walking not cars.

    The big problem isn't held up buses it's the fully cancelled ones which there is no system to advise customers of the cancellation.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭TnxM17


    Where there are shelters, they are ok, but very sporadic. I would be walking away from city to passfind my nearest

    Incidentally, I just got a notification from Leap that you can travel 2 for the price of one over this bank holiday weekend. And even though I posted earlier that price is low on many people's priorities in comparison to frequency & consistency it is a great incentive for people, and I will probably avail of it too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,856 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Its all the answer lads, but if you think it will all be enabled without the Ring Road too, you're mistaken.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    A ring road, maybe. This ring road? No.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The ring road is at least a decade away, and probably much longer than that.

    Probably more likely is the improvement of the existing N6 - Bothar na d'Treabh - with free flow junctions replacing roundabouts and traffic lights, with the addition of bus and cycle lanes. Terryland needs thought, and the Corrib needs a few bridges.

    A light rail tram system would be great.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,679 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    That 2 for 1 is all leap fares so that includes coaches (excluding Expressway) and commuter rail which is a big saving.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭TnxM17


    You know what, I do actually.

    And I have read your answers to why you believe the GCRR will go ahead and its mainly on political and environmental reasons. The chances of any acts or the environmental requirements being watered down is exceedingly slim. And while I think the Greens may not have as strong numbers in the next government, they aren't holding up this project, that will come from local levels through various legal interventions.

    The people of Galway won't keep taking the long delays and will seek more timely alternatives. The main politician's will fall in behind local sentiment.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,029 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    erm, there is the L52 bus that goes from Adamstown sation to Blanch SC that crosses the Liffey in Lucan. There is also the 139 Naas-Maynooth-Blanch route that travels over the canal in Leixlip.

    Currently, it is almost a difficult choice to decide to use a bus. Why would you? By making the bus a no-brainer coimpared to driving will serve to encourage anyone who does not need their car to switch.

    So you keep telling us!

    So, when exactly do you forsee ABP and/or the government saying how this road can in fact go ahead (despite the climate plan) and do you not envisage various legal challenges tieing it up subsequently? The road will not get built in thois or any similar plan. It is an idiotic idea buried in 1980's logic which is not fit for where we are now. That the councils are still stamping their feet for this without seeing the bigger picture shows that there are massive issues within these bodies.

    Do you not think that the councils are being facetious by not introducing serious PT & AT measures regardless of the GCRR?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't think we'll ever see free flow junctions on BnT for the following reasons.

    • It wouldn't solve any problems
    • They literally just finished replacing the RAB's on it in Jul 21. Actually, on the N6, they still have 1 left to do, Browne, behind the hospital
    • You would only do free flow if the priority is cars. Thats no longer the case
    • Space, for 4 arm free flow junctions you would be looking at ridiculous space requirements for infrastructure that wouldn't solve any problems.
    • They would be hostile in relation to walking & cycling. This was one of the main justifications behind the RAB replacements, that they were so hostile to walking/cycling


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Galway City Council put roundabouts everywhere - they were aiming to have twelve so they could name them after the tribes. Now they are going round replacing them with traffic light junctions. They can add that waste of money to all their other mistakes.

    By free-flow I do not mean spaghetti junctions, but more a way of getting rid of stopping on the main road - the way the French do it.

    I do not see pedestrians on BnT, but cyclists would be OK, particular if they were given proper treatment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭Unrealistic


    I used to cycle BnT twice a day when I worked that side of town. The scary part was the roundabout at the Menlo Park Hotel. The raised separated path on the stretch from there to the entrance to Glenburren Park was fine. But then you'd get gob$h!te$ who think they'll be able to get to the left turn on the Tuam Road more quickly if they move across to the curb and completely block the bike lane, while also still blocking the lane they should be in because more than half the width of their car is still in that lane. It's selfish and achieves absolutely nothing except antagonising fellow road users.

    There were people walking BnT every day and it would be very wrong to try to prevent that. If someone lives in Tirellan Heights and works in Ballybane they can walk it in a little over 20 minutes. You'd be making their journey take at least 50% longer if you prevented them from walking BnT. Then there are those who work in the Mervue direction who actually cross BnT in the middle (near the river crossing). It's dangerous but I can understand why they do it. It's 800m from Ballinfoyle Church to the Mervue industrial estate as the crow flies. If you follow paths and cross BnT you can do it in 1.4km. But if you avoid BnT it will be more than 2km. There really should be an underpass or overpass there to facilitate that crossing and open up the route to everyone, not just the brave/foolish.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There are loads walking BnT every day of the week

    By free-flow I do not mean spaghetti junctions, but more a way of getting rid of stopping on the main road - the way the French do it.

    I genuinely have no idea what you're referring to here. Do you have some youtube videos or something that can illustrate what you're talking about. I'm just struggling to see how multiple 4 arm junctions can be free flow without major infrastructure



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,856 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    All roundabouts are hostile to walking and cycling.

    For good or ill, the DMURS retrofit of roundabouts to signal junctions with narrow radii and bus priority is going to continue apace in urban areas, make no mistake. Which will slow up general traffic and make more of a case for a ring road than anything else!



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    It is a long time since I was regularly in Galway and in my recent visits I have struggled to find my way around with the confusion of roads going everywhere with junctions and traffic lights.

    My comments regarding pedestrians on BnT are just the thought of how they are not catered for and I just think it would be dangerous for them. If they are provided for then that should be OK.

    What I mean by free flow would be to remove all traffic lights on BnT and all right turns. An example in Dublin is the Newlands Cross flyover. It fixed one of the worst bottlenecks on the N7. The idea would be to make BnT a through road with no delay. It would need a few bridges, either for BnT or the crossing roads. [Just an idea to get the current traffic moving.]



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What I mean by free flow would be to remove all traffic lights on BnT and all right turns

    Cheers for the clarification



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    There are only about 5 junctions from Coolagh to Terryland. If those were dealt with, there is plenty of free space either side of the road for bus and cycle lanes, and even pedestrians.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,029 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    What I mean by free flow would be to remove all traffic lights on BnT and all right turns.

    Actually, in most cities, banning right turns (at least during busy periods) would do a good bit to help traffic flow at those junctions.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm wondering how I'm going to cross the road in your scenario though given there are no controlled junctions.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There's a few already in Galway. Not free flow though, but at Moneennagisha and Knocknacarra/BOD junction.

    Actually come to think of it, right turns are not permitted on 2 arms, not all 4, at those junctions



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You only build those if motor traffic is the priority. Might have been an option in the past but not anymore.

    Besides, given the existing network has maxed out capacity, I feel like the uncontrolled junctions would be completely blocked during peak times as this is what happened with the RAB's and was another reason why the junctions needed to be controlled.

    Want to see it in practice, head over to the Browne RAB or Cemetery Cross during peak times. All blocked with folks blocking each other and wondering why the junction is blocked.

    Measures to speed up traffic or increase the rate of flow will just lead to more traffic.

    You may see a gain in the short term, but you won't get a decade out of it.

    Just look at the M6 Coolagh junction. Literally 5-6 kilometers of tailbacks in the mornings and that's a brand spanking new motorway, opened in 2009,which did nothing to improve the traffic on the Tuam rd, Monivea rd, or old N6, all of which are just as congested as before. There wasn't even 6/7 years of a benefit from that road opening in terms of alleviating peak traffic into the city.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There’s that “induced demand” again.

    There was a text on Galway Talks saying essentially “We love to visit Connemara, but the trip through Galway is too difficult” and “I have to commute from Tullamore to Clifden a few times a week for work, I go via Cong now even though that adds so much to the journey.” I’d regard this as two examples of deterred traffic.

    While most of us regard this as an abhorrence which should be remedied, the Greens would high-five each other at the success of the deterrent that a hostile road environment provides.

    Fact is, Galway is the national anti-roads movement’s greatest success and has been for 30 years. They will fight tooth & nail to keep it theirs, the same way US Republicans will fight tooth & nail for the 2nd Amendment. Cost to the rest of us be damned.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,029 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Yeah, we should tarmac the whole feckin county so people can drive wherever they wish! 🙄

    While most of us regard this as an abhorrence which should be remedied, the Greens would high-five each other at the success of the deterrent that a hostile road environment provides.

    This obsession that some people have about the Greens is frankly just weird!



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Yes, there is an element that could be classed as 'induced demand'. However, do not get caught out and lose sight of the perfect being the enemy of the good.

    What I am suggesting is the upgrade of BnT so that includes bus lanes (and possibly trams) and cycle lanes. It would include Coolagh, and should be extended to Newcastle. The Corrib is obviously a problem, and bridges need to be built for PT especially.

    The problem of blockages resulting in backups onto BnT needs to be thought out, but I do not envisage the approach I am suggesting would be carried out as a 'big dig' but as a sequence of small local projects tackling each each node - one at a time, but part of an overall plan. [Plan is not a Galway thing].

    Galway has a history of projects being seen as solutions as being the panacea to non-related problems, like their 'tribal' roundabouts that were installed and then replaced.

    Just look at the Athenry to Tuam rail as a solution to Galway's PT needs. There are next to no people willing to take that route as rail commuters into the places of employment in Galway City. Better to concentrate on the Athenry/Galway rail corridor and get commuter/Dart type of frequent service on that, and after that is successful, extend it. Of course the Athenry to Galway line would need to be double tracked. (And who is thinking about that?)

    Or the M17 being a solution to congestion of the N17 (now called the N83) from Two Mile Ditch into BnT. (I get updated every day from RTE traffic news on this and have been for years - it never changes). The M17 contributes to the Coolagh problem, but not so much, because the potential users now revert back to queueing at Two Mile Ditch.

    Galway local authorities are part of the problem, not part of the solution.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well that got personal very fast. From a category mod no less. Says a hell of a lot as to why the Galway ring road thread is the only one that descends into a general “reasons to ditch the car” discussion as opposed to all the other road threads, and gets locked as a result.

    “The national anti-roadbuilding movement has focussed on Galway. My guess is because it is that movement’s greatest success. “ I’d love to know why that p*sses people off to point out.


    edit: and before someone call me a car…ist, no. If we gotta quit we gotta quit, but that does mean depopulation of rural areas & shoeboxing people.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Just look at the Athenry to Tuam rail as a solution to Galway's PT needs. There are next to no people willing to take that route as rail commuters into the places of employment in Galway City. Better to concentrate on the Athenry/Galway rail corridor and get commuter/Dart type of frequent service on that, and after that is successful, extend it. Of course the Athenry to Galway line would need to be double tracked. (And who is thinking about that?)

    The Galway Athenry line is getting double tracked just at a snails pace.

    First is the second platform and passing loop at Oranmore and after they'll do the double track.

    At the current rate of progress though you're looking at mid to late 2030's. That's just unacceptable if it's to be considered a serious project. It should have a target of 2025-2028 and even that is crap. This is on land IE already own.

    Athenry already acts as a commuter location quite well and the car park there is wedged by 10am daily. Same with Oranmore. They need to expand this greatly and ramp up frequency.

    Commuter rail from Tuam though, that's going to be a woeful option, same as the WRC service from Limerick. That's slower and costs more than other options. Tuam commuter rail would be the same.

    The fastest, most efficient and quickest to implement would be bus lanes from Loughgeorge to Galway city both ways, but that needs a bypass of Claregalway to reach max efficiency otherwise any bus will just get snarled up for 30+ mins in Claregalway.

    That being said, Burke’s buses are operating a lot of buses for commuters already from Tuam. If the lanes were done, followed by a bypass of Claregalway, you'd see a huge modal shift from Tuam as it would be the best and most convenient option.

    Again those bus lanes are on the cards but the time frames for implementation are ludicrous when, realistically they could be done within a few short period of time for the bulk of the route.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


This discussion has been closed.
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