Top Up Courses

No6

I have a level 7 ordinary degree from the early nineties, I am now finding an academic bar being imposed on me for certain roles I am interested in, Part Time lecturing and comercial energy assessments registration for example. Has anybody come accross any distance learning courses that can get me up to a level 8 honors degree standard, with the current downturn I may have too much time on my hands but cannot go back to college full time due to location and family comittments. Just throwing it out there, I wonder will there be grants going for upskilling

smashey

No6,

You should post this in the Mature Student forum as well. Myth will know exactly what you need.

I'd be happy to let it run in both fora.

No6

Thanks smashey, I've done that

pseudo-tech

No. 6. I was in a similar position to you, but applied for and completed an MSc. My experience was taken into account. I am now doing my second Masters to fill in the time next year. You should not allow the fact that you only qualified with a level 7 stop you from raising the bar further. There has been a lot of poor information given out about glass ceilings by people who should know better.

No6

What and where are you studying Pseudo-tech and is it full time part time or distance. Details please!!!PM if you prefer.

pseudo-tech

Parrt-time for both. Most post-grad courses will accept your level 7 (if you have adequate experience). I was able to do this without a level 8 degree. If you need details i will pm you.

No6

Please do!!:D

topcatcbr

pseudo-tech wrote: »

Parrt-time for both. Most post-grad courses will accept your level 7 (if you have adequate experience). I was able to do this without a level 8 degree. If you need details i will pm you.

Will you PM me too please

topcatcbr

Has anyone tried the distance masters from University of Northumbria
MSc Surveying and Construction or Leeds Met Uni.

I am looking into doing the Masters in Building Surveying. As it appears to be one of the qualifications accepted from financial institutions for interim cert payments and also BER non domestic.

Any Ideas

pseudo-tech

No. However, the MSc in Construction project Management in WIT will get you an interview with the CIOB (who are also accepted). If you gain membership of the CIOB you will get automatic membership of the CIAT (two for the price of one).

archtech

pseudo-tech wrote: »

No. However, the MSc in Construction project Management in WIT will get you an interview with the CIOB (who are also accepted). If you gain membership of the CIOB you will get automatic membership of the CIAT (two for the price of one).

Are you sure about that one, I do know that you do get reduced membership fees,if a member of both, but I think (could be wrong) that you have to still do you POP record.

The cost of WIT's MSc in Construction Project Management at €13900 for the 2 years would be a very expensive way of attaining membership of CIAT , if that was ones sole reason for doing the course.
It is a course I would consider doing myself, as in the future I can see openings, acting as "qualified" project management consultants for the small "local" builders tendering for funded projects, in addition to administration of building contracts. Timing this year just didn't work out.

topcatcbr

archtech wrote: »

Are you sure about that one, I do know that you do get reduced membership fees,if a member of both, but I think (could be wrong) that you have to still do you POP record.
The cost of WIT's MSc in Construction Project Management at €13900 for the 2 years would be a very expensive way of attaining membership of CIAT , if that was ones sole reason for doing the course.
It is a course I would consider doing myself, as in the future I can see openings, acting as "qualified" project management consultants for the small "local" builders tendering for funded projects, in addition to administration of building contracts. Timing this year just didn't work out.

This is right Membership of the CIOB does not automatically grant membership of CIAT.

Currently there are no accredited courses for CIAT in the republic at any level

No6

topcatcbr wrote: »

Currently there are no accredited courses for CIAT in the republic at any level

And along with the fact that only two have RIAI accreditation is a shocking indictment of the courses themselves. Do they have any regard for their students and graduates. Personally I think all the courses should have both RIAI and CIAT recognition, in this day and age professional recgonition and high standrads in education are vital!!!

I found a few courses in england I could do by distance learning I'll dig them out and post them here too!! Please post the details of the courses in Leeds Topcatcbr There's also a few in the north.

topcatcbr

No6 wrote: »

And along with the fact that only two have RIAI accreditation is a shocking indictment of the courses themselves. Do they have any regard for their students and graduates. Personally I think all the courses should have both RIAI and CIAT recognition, in this day and age professional recgonition and high standrads in education are vital!!!

I found a few courses in england I could do by distance learning I'll dig them out and post them here too!! Please post the details of the courses in Leeds Topcatcbr There's also a few in the north.

See link below
http://prospectus.leedsmet.ac.uk/main/detail.htm?p=62&ban=MSCBS&attendance=3

some courses start in feb

pseudo-tech

There have been many false promises from Colleges in relation to top up courses. Is there an incentive for colleges to provide these courses or does it pay them better to rule over populated under-grad programmes?

If you had a choice and the colleges ear. What courses would you like to see run and where?

topcatcbr

I got approved in principle fot masters in Arch Tech Napier but im still waiting for word back on Building surveying Masters.

No6

Are they both distance courses topcatcbr?, I looked at napier some time ago but didn't find the masters in Arch Tech,Have you got a link please??, Personally I would like to see a distance learning option from Irish colleges for a straight forward Level 8 degree firstly followed by mevel 9 Masters and level 10 doctorate's. I believe that they should recognise prior learning, which seems to be the case for a lot of other courses at varoiuus level being provided for mature students!!, The colleges should take a good look at the current situation in the country and realise that the numbers applying are going to drop big time from next september. It could be intheir interests to arrange courses that some of us old hands could take up if we are not so busy next year!!:eek:

archtech

I would say this is the course topcatcbr is on about.

topcatcbr

archtech wrote: »

I would say this is the course topcatcbr is on about.

That the one

I am still waiting for word back from the building surveying masters.

If i get offered both i am not sure which one to do. I think the building surveying might be the right one as it gives a second qualification where the Arch Tech only improves the one I already have. What do you think?

Retro-Fit

There's an immediate need for research into building performance and improvement, this coincides with a demand from arch tech graduates for a meaningful qualification. The green party forced the government to pump money into R+D, Cowen will be making an announcement soon. Rather than have people studying in Oxford, CAT, Napier and South Bank in the UK perhaps SEI could partner with an Irish college to produce a course that would also undertake a lot of building research.

Our career was a highly regarded but unrewarded discipline within the architectural profession untill recently. The disipline was ignored in legislation for registration of the title 'Architect' and is suffering unduely from the effects of the credit splurge. I heard it said that Architectural technology has had its day as a career, with 5 architecture courses in Ireland churning out cheap staff why would you hire a technician. the CAD advantage is gone and the detailing needed for high performance building is quite specialist. The hi-tech aspect of construction is in energy and environment and this is no longer part of the DIT course for instance. I think Wexford have a 4th year add on focusing on building energy. Unfortunatly with no representative body, lobby group or union technicians have no voice. The oppertunity to set up an organisation is lost and it never gained momentum when times were good. It was always unclear as to weither it was a organisation for technicians in architectural practices or those who wished to operate as Architects. It now seems that the BER association is set to become the representative body for a significant number of technicians. The market is forcing us in this direction.

There's a missed oppertunity to develop skills and provide expertise in the energy efficiency and indoor air quality where it is sorely needed. Some of the best experts in this field come from an Architectural Technology Background. We are now in a transition phase and need to adapt to de-growth following the failure of chicago school economics to deliver a sustainable development model. To develope into an economy focused on delivery of quality of life rather than vague indicators like productivity growth, we need to re-tool disciplines that are dynamic. Architectural technologists have nothing to lose at this stage.

No6

topcatcbr wrote: »

That the one

I am still waiting for word back from the building surveying masters.

If i get offered both i am not sure which one to do. I think the building surveying might be the right one as it gives a second qualification where the Arch Tech only improves the one I already have. What do you think?

You could be right topcatcbr, and if it has professional recognition you could be a registered surveyor.

Retro-fit, while I agree with you on the R&D side of things I think you may be slightly incorrect on the representation side of things. There are two professional bodies which represent technicians and one being set up, Take your pick, join one, two or three of them and if they move to slow get involved. I know a lot of the people involved in all three bodies and they are working very hard for very little thanks and yes progress is painfully slow and the lack of information is killing interest, so I do share your frustration there, The BER association will represent BER assessors in regard to BER issues not Architectural technicians in relation to our many architectural issues although we may be members.

topcatcbr

Agreed No 6. i dont think the BER assessors association is the right body to represent Arch Techs. Personally I think we are a little higher regarded as a profession than BER Assessors.

pseudo-tech

It's a pity at this stage that we even have to mention the BER Assessors association as a representative body for Arch. Techs. However, we do need some joined up thinking between the colleges and the current representing bodies (R.I.A.I. & C.I.A.T) in order for graduates to be properly recognised.

There should be simple top up courses available at this stage for those that want to trade up and that these courses should be properly recognised by the R.I.A.I. and the C.I.A.T.

topcatcbr

pseudo-tech wrote: »

It's a pity at this stage that we even have to mention the BER Assessors association as a representative body for Arch. Techs. However, we do need some joined up thinking between the colleges and the current representing bodies (R.I.A.I. & C.I.A.T) in order for graduates to be properly recognised.

There should be simple top up courses available at this stage for those that want to trade up and that these courses should be properly recognised by the R.I.A.I. and the C.I.A.T.

I cant fault you there

RKQ

pseudo-tech wrote: »

It's a pity at this stage that we even have to mention the BER Assessors association as a representative body for Arch. Techs. However, we do need some joined up thinking between the colleges and the current representing bodies (R.I.A.I. & C.I.A.T) in order for graduates to be properly recognised.

There should be simple top up courses available at this stage for those that want to trade up and that these courses should be properly recognised by the R.I.A.I. and the C.I.A.T.

I agree. A BER Assessors Association - BERAA- should be easy to set up with the help of SEI, a Government body, with its own Graduates. No professional snobbery, or "Royal Charter" required.... lots of qualified members.

Main merit would be joint approved PI insurance - so a reduction could be negiotated! Regular refresher courses and a network of professionals for self help and maintaining professional standards.

Maybe a small membership fee could be tacked on to SEI Registration fee?
Simple.... go for it lads & ladies!

No6

Its there already RKQ, http://www.berassoc.ie/ its a volunteer group and making a reasonable stab at it so far as I can see. There is another group that I don't know much about too.

well butty

"Main merit would be joint approved PI insurance- so a reduction could be negiotated! "

That already exists. There is an Insurance Broker in Waterford that is providing group insurance for Architectural Technician's in private practice. Anyone want the details PM me.

RKQ

Thanks No6, delighted to hear it. BER Assessors Association looks like a professional website and a professional organisation.

All good things to those that help themselves - I admire them and wish them well.:)

Lets hope they can negiotate PI premiums, maintain profession standards, represent your interests at the highest level and work together in these very uncertain times.

No6

Its a start RKQ, hopefully it will work out ok and speaking of PI now I've got to go an fill in my renewal form!!:eek:

topcatcbr

Just to update this

I got an unconditional offer for the Building surveying MSc in Northumbria University. I was suposed to start in Feb But i Deffered Entry until Sept. Skip Hons degree and gain a Complementry Higher Qualification in the same amount of time.

I hope it works out but like many of you i feel if i could get through AT i can get through almost anything.

See link below for course
http://www.northumbria.ac.uk/?view=CourseDetail&code=DTDSBS6

pseudo-tech

topcatcbr wrote: »

Just to update this

I got an unconditional offer for the Building surveying MSc in Northumbria University. I was suposed to start in Feb But i Deffered Entry until Sept. Skip Hons degree and gain a Complementry Higher Qualification in the same amount of time.

I hope it works out but like many of you i feel if i could get through AT i can get through almost anything.

See link below for course
http://www.northumbria.ac.uk/?view=CourseDetail&code=DTDSBS6

The best of luck with that one topcatcbr. What is the cost for the two years and can you claim any exemptions for modules covered?

topcatcbr

The cost is approx €6000 over two years. They have a payment plan. As far as i know you can claim Tax back on money spent on work related training.
I have not asked yet for any exemptions. I only applied Late November and got the offer 2 weeks ago so this is why i deferred until Autumn. It gives me more time to get funds together and will allow more time to research modules before starting to assess wht i might be exempt. As it is a MSc and i have only a Dip Arch Tech I dont think ill be exempt much. How ever i do think i will be covering odl ground which is an advantage as i will know where to look for info.

From the time i started looking into getting over the hurdle of not having an Hons Degree i have found that their are many collages and institutions (UK) who welcome the likes of us on their courses.I waited for 3 years for the DIT add on and got fed up waiting. There are some Hons degree choices out there but predomnitly it was the masters courses which were most flexible and better reflect our starting point.

I would advise any Arch Tech to research into this option and see if it is suitable for them.

With the amount of Arch Techs posting hours being cut back or being layed off i think now is the time to do somthing to ensure they remain valid into the future. This is why i posted the update as i think others are thinking along the same lines.

pseudo-tech

Thanks for that topcatcbr. Very positive indeed. You are right there are a number of MSc programmes out there that will accept our qualifications and experience. Keep up the good work.

No6

Thanks for the information Topcat and best of luck with the study, keep us posted on how its going!!! Anyone else doing a course or looking at one let us know, we all might have more time for further study in the next few years!:eek:

archtech

looks like a course worth considering topcatcbr. was there many more that you looked at apart from what you posted hear already.

I am seriously giving doing an add-on thought myself, had always intended adding to the diploma but full time isn't an option now.

As for what to do that is the question?

Slevoyre

Just a question for topcatcbr or others (from a long time reader first time poster as they say:)) I am a Arch Tech wit a Diploma from WIT, luckily on returning from traveling last summer i started working with a small rural practice and we're just about hanging in there at the moment, but regardless it's not where i would see myself working for ever, recession or not.
I would like some advice what a guy with my qualifications should be looking for in a top up course to further my current qualification. (P.S. the distance learning course in Napier University looks very intresting would this be worth doing?)

topcatcbr

Slevoyre. This is exactly where i am coming from also.

I am in full time employment also but like yourself i do not see my self working there for too much longer. In fact i see a departure in two years on the cards.

So i was looking for a course which would offer a Hons degree or higher which was also accredited by a professional body. I looked at the AT masters in Napier (I Was given provisional approval without submitting a formal application) and while i liked the subject mater it wasn't accredited by CIAT. I was also of the feeling that it did not qualify me to do anything i could not already do with my Dip Arch Tech. I then looked at other qualifications and similar professions. there are many opportunities for courses from Quantity surveying, Construction Management, Building Services, Fire Safety Etc.

I decided i would like to do Building Surveying. There is a course in Leeds which looks good. I chose the one in Northumbria as it seemed more flexible and was accredited by RICS and CIOB.

I was only interested in distance or Irish based part time courses (Irish very limited).

Supertech

topcatcbr wrote: »

I chose the one in Northumbria as it seemed more flexible and was accredited by RICS and CIOB.

Another advantage of the Building Surveying qualification is that Building Surveyor is a protected title under the Building Control Act, and membership of RICS, SCS and CIOB is recognised by the financial institutions and Law Society for the purposes of offering Opinions on Compliance. This opens up much better prospects for practising on one's own account.

topcatcbr

Supertech wrote: »

Another advantage of the Building Surveying qualification is that Building Surveyor is a protected title under the Building Control Act, and membership of RICS, SCS and CIOB is recognised by the financial institutions and Law Society for the purposes of offering Opinions on Compliance. This opens up much better prospects for practising on one's own account.

True. This is how it started out. I forgot to mention this.

RKQ

I understand that level 8 would be a minimum standard in the future. DIT and WIT are aiming to provide these courses, which takes time.

Unfortunately it seems that UK organisations might be the only organisations to recognise a persons ability or proven experience!:eek:

As a level 8 ex-WIT I am unaffected but in the interest of fairness I would hope that experience would be appreciated as a legitimate avenue to any future membership.

Alas, its seems I may be alone in this opinion.

Retro-Fit

The MSC AEES course in CAT wales is quite popular as an add on part time course for level 7 Irish technicians and level 8 Architects. MSC Architecture: Advanced Environmental and Energy Studies.

There is a huge deficit in the Construction industry for skills in building physics. Teckies can fulfill this role with the aid of a course that teaches them analytical techniques and empirical scientific principles. IMO CAT offers the best opertunities. There will be no recovery, no bounce, no return to double digit growth. Take those opertunities if you can, the world as we know it has changed utterly in the last year, you have to adapt to survive, as Darwin would say.

Good luck in your endevours.

pseudo-tech

Retro-Fit wrote: »

as Darwin would say.

Survival of the fittest? I'm in trouble then!

Warden Dios

I can highly recommend the MSc Architecture:Advanced Environmental and Energy Studies from CAT and UEL. I started it in 2005 and finally finished in Feb 2008 (after some differal). I was only able to attend one unit and continue the rest DL. You can mix DL with attendance as suits, or do the lot DL if you want. I think it cost around €5000. Like most of you I had a level 7 qualification.

http://www2.cat.org.uk/graduateschool/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=149&Itemid=213

The Architecture: Advanced Environmental and Energy Studies MSc covers building design, energy and wider environmental issues. It is intended to be accessible for all those with an interest in contemporary environmental issues. This course has two methods of access; it can be undertaken by attendance at CAT (with the opportunity of individual modules undertaken via distance learning) or by the wholly Distance Learning Route
Our Renewable Energy in the Built Environment MSc focuses particularly on the technical and engineering side of renewable energy technology.
While the Part 2 Professional Diploma in Architecture considers energy and the environment in the context of architectural design.

sydthebeat

Warden Dios wrote: »

I can highly recommend the MSc Architecture:Advanced Environmental and Energy Studies from CAT and UEL. I started it in 2005 and finally finished in Feb 2008 (after some differal). I was only able to attend one unit and continue the rest DL. You can mix DL with attendance as suits, or do the lot DL if you want. I think it cost around €5000. Like most of you I had a level 7 qualification.

http://www2.cat.org.uk/graduateschool/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=149&Itemid=213

The Architecture: Advanced Environmental and Energy Studies MSc covers building design, energy and wider environmental issues. It is intended to be accessible for all those with an interest in contemporary environmental issues. This course has two methods of access; it can be undertaken by attendance at CAT (with the opportunity of individual modules undertaken via distance learning) or by the wholly Distance Learning Route
Our Renewable Energy in the Built Environment MSc focuses particularly on the technical and engineering side of renewable energy technology.
While the Part 2 Professional Diploma in Architecture considers energy and the environment in the context of architectural design.

warden,

do you know, with this qualification, if you can advertise yourself as an architect or not in accordance with the Building Control Bill?

pseudo-tech

Warden Dios wrote: »

I can highly recommend the MSc Architecture:Advanced Environmental and Energy Studies from CAT and UEL. I started it in 2005 and finally finished in Feb 2008 (after some differal). I was only able to attend one unit and continue the rest DL. You can mix DL with attendance as suits, or do the lot DL if you want. I think it cost around €5000. Like most of you I had a level 7 qualification.

http://www2.cat.org.uk/graduateschool/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=149&Itemid=213

The Architecture: Advanced Environmental and Energy Studies MSc covers building design, energy and wider environmental issues. It is intended to be accessible for all those with an interest in contemporary environmental issues. This course has two methods of access; it can be undertaken by attendance at CAT (with the opportunity of individual modules undertaken via distance learning) or by the wholly Distance Learning Route
Our Renewable Energy in the Built Environment MSc focuses particularly on the technical and engineering side of renewable energy technology.
While the Part 2 Professional Diploma in Architecture considers energy and the environment in the context of architectural design.

Warden Dios, Is the above course recognised by any professional body?

Warden Dios

The course is accredited by the Energy Institute. It will give you Associate membership of CIAT.

armchairninja

I was just reading another thread, when I saw someone asking about Cormac Allen and what he was doing with the top up courses etc., figured I post it in here, instead of posting up a new thread about it.
I was in Dublin the other day with one of the lads that gradauted with me last year, we decided to stick our heads into Bolton Street, see what was going on in there these days.
We happened to run into Cormac, who was telling us that the add on courses are up for validation on 18 March I think, and that there was news of this on the DIT website.
Just incase none of you have been checking the site lately for developments on this, I have included the link

So there has been some developments, he hopes to have something off the ground for Septemebr 2009, so hopefully it happens!

No6

armchairninja wrote: »

I was just reading another thread, when I saw someone asking about Cormac Allen and what he was doing with the top up courses etc., figured I post it in here, instead of posting up a new thread about it.
I was in Dublin the other day with one of the lads that gradauted with me last year, we decided to stick our heads into Bolton Street, see what was going on in there these days.
We happened to run into Cormac, who was telling us that the add on courses are up for validation on 18 March I think, and that there was news of this on the DIT website.
Just incase none of you have been checking the site lately for developments on this, I have included the link

So there has been some developments, he hopes to have something off the ground for Septemebr 2009, so hopefully it happens!

Thanks for posting that, I'll be very interested in the part time / distance learning with recognition of prior learning (APEL) Not beeing a DIT graduate I don't usually look on their website for news, I'll have to start keeping an eye on it now.:D

pseudo-tech

No6 wrote: »

Thanks for posting that, I'll be very interested in the part time / distance learning with recognition of prior learning (APEL) Not beeing a DIT graduate I don't usually look on their website for news, I'll have to start keeping an eye on it now.:D

Same as No. 6. Being validated on the 18th March. When will it be up and running (this year, next year?). Is it level 8 or 9?

Thanks for the info!

topcatcbr

If you look at their 2007 prospectus it will begin in sept 2008. If you look at this years prospectus it began last year link

pseudo-tech

topcatcbr wrote: »

If you look at their 2007 prospectus it will begin in sept 2008. If you look at this years prospectus it began last year link

Thanks for that topcatcbr. It will be in place full-time this September and next year for part-time. However, I would like to see level 9 options for those of us with buckets of experience who should not have to suffer a level 8 at this point in our careers