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Send in the Clowns - BAC 10K Challenge

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  • Registered Users Posts: 305 ✭✭conavitzky


    ultrapercy wrote: »
    This log is the best thing about this forum. There are other good logs and posters but this is the leader. I'd go as far as to say it's one of the best running publications, for want of a better word, that I read and I read quite a bit about running. I look forward to the latest update with the anticapation I once gave to Irish Runner, back when it was actually a running magazine. Your are truly inspirational and I don't like to bandy that term about as it's painfully overused. You arer honest and insightful and you have a talent for writing that may even exceed your running. All the best with the next attempt and please keep us updated even if it's only occasionally.
    Agreed. Couldn't have put it better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,505 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    davedanon wrote: »
    There's a question I've been wanting to ask you, G. Back when you were a 3.15/3.20 marathoner, did a sub-3 represent a significant goal for you? Was it even the summit of your ambitions, like so many people, or just a stop along the way?

    What I mean is, did you see it as this enormous obstacle, a sort of natural barrier like so many of us (probably wrongly) do, or did you see yourself even then going under it, and then leaving it in your rear-view in the way that you subsequently did?

    That's poorly expressed, but hopefully you get the gist.


    I know for myself that I've made the cognitive error of making 3 hours into a bit of a monster. The notion of breaking 3.10, or even 3.05, is something I readily consider possible. Just a matter of shaving off minutes and seconds. Natural progress. 3 hours though, somehow in my mind it appears as something more than just an extra 5 minutes. Luckily, in a way, it's a monkey I don't have to worry about immediately - not when I'm all of 14 minutes away from it.
    Hi Dave, DubGal linked to my Berlin 3:00:50 report above, but a couple of relevant points from that race/attempt:
    1) I didn't train to break 3:00. I trained with a 3:05-3:07 marathon in mind, and on the morning of the race, threw caution to the wind and decided to go for it, just missing out on the mark (on a similarly sunny day to Rotterdam last week). I'm pretty sure that if I had set out at 3:07 pace, I'd have run 3:07 or thereabouts for the marathon. Sometimes what's holding us back is... us...! That, by the way, was probably the ballsiest running decision I've ever made.
    2) Like Rotterdam, I just didn't know whether or not I was the kind of runner who could run 3 hours, so rather than be upset about missing the time, I was delighted. Stumbling back from the post-race pints that afternoon, I was prepared to hang up my shoes, as it was a time I felt I could be satisfied with for the rest of my life. Yeah, there's probably a lesson for me in there somewhere. But no, I wasn't looking beyond 3:00. I've never really looked beyond the next step. Same is true of that sub 2:30 goal. It's not really the numbers that attract me, it's what it represents. If somebody said to me: will you ever run 2:28:xx - I would immediately say no - that's beyond my range of capability. But if I somehow managed to run 2:29:xx, I wouldn't be so quick. For me, it's one small step at a time.
    3) For my next marathon, I didn't train to break 3 hours. I trained to break 2:55, and ended up with 2:55:15. Definitely my best marathon race performance. Every stride was pure joy and I just had the most amazing race experience. The same strategy didn't really work out for me in Rotterdam (I trained to run a good chunk quicker than 2:30), and the rest is history.

    Incidentally, I don't think Rotterdam was my greatest race experience. If somebody had told me at the 40km mark that I would finish in 2:30:01, I don't think I'd have had any bother finding those extra two seconds. At some point between 35 and 40kms, the head dropped, I lost focus and defeat settled in. I like to think that may have been caused by chemical imbalance (electrolyte loss, low glycogen) because it's more addressable than mental weakness, but it could just as easily be the other.

    ...and now I'm rambling.. Nope, no massive barrier, just taking it one race at a time. I know in the past I've said (written) that I will never break 2:30. That's because it didn't exist for me as a realistic goal until I was one hop away.
    One question KC - in your report you make a point about not taking anything performance enhancing or to aid recovery - why did you include that paragraph - I found it odd to see after many years reading your log.
    I know - I had to think about it. There's something that bothers me about amateur athletics in Ireland - and it's not the questions about drug-use. It's the speculation about drug-use and I'm very uncomfortable with it. It's the 'that guy has made massive improvements - he must be on drugs' or the 'I heard she was taking x' conversations. Sometimes it's aimed at high-profile athletes and other times it's at every-day runners like you and me - people we know would never dare cross that line. We Irish people have a history of begrudgery and it's often easier and more convenient to believe that someone's improvement has come from unnatural means, because it justifies our own failures or is a more palatable explanation. It's not a problem unique to running either. Someone gets a promotion - what did they have to do for it? Someone gets a new car? Where did the money come from? Somebody runs a 5 minute PB in the marathon - how did they improve so much over such a short period of time? We do it because it's part of our nature and modern media has created an environment where we are naturally suspicious and question everything. A lot of people have visited this log over the last 9 years. I'm fortunate to be able to count many of them among my friends. But there are many others who follow the log who I have never met and may never meet, who may not know how strongly principled I am (less about others, and more inwardly focused on my own progress and improvements). So probably unnecessary, but you never can tell.
    UltraPercy wrote:
    This log is the best thing about this forum.
    Thanks John. That's incredibly kind. I feel duty-bound to disagree, and in turn suggest that you are one of my great inspirations, but not taking compliments is also a very typical Irish trait (what this old dress?), so you in turn would feel duty bound to disagree. So lets just move swiftly onwards!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭ultrapercy


    Hi Dave, DubGal linked to my Berlin 3:00:50 report above, but a couple of relevant points from that race/attempt:
    1) I didn't train to break 3:00. I trained with a 3:05-3:07 marathon in mind, and on the morning of the race, threw caution to the wind and decided to go for it, just missing out on the mark (on a similarly sunny day to Rotterdam last week). I'm pretty sure that if I had set out at 3:07 pace, I'd have run 3:07 or thereabouts for the marathon. Sometimes what's holding us back is... us...! That, by the way, was probably the ballsiest running decision I've ever made.
    2) Like Rotterdam, I just didn't know whether or not I was the kind of runner who could run 3 hours, so rather than be upset about missing the time, I was delighted. Stumbling back from the post-race pints that afternoon, I was prepared to hang up my shoes, as it was a time I felt I could be satisfied with for the rest of my life. Yeah, there's probably a lesson for me in there somewhere. But no, I wasn't looking beyond 3:00. I've never really looked beyond the next step. Same is true of that sub 2:30 goal. It's not really the numbers that attract me, it's what it represents. If somebody said to me: will you ever run 2:28:xx - I would immediately say no - that's beyond my range of capability. But if I somehow managed to run 2:29:xx, I wouldn't be so quick. For me, it's one small step at a time.
    3) For my next marathon, I didn't train to break 3 hours. I trained to break 2:55, and ended up with 2:55:15. Definitely my best marathon race performance. Every stride was pure joy and I just had the most amazing race experience. The same strategy didn't really work out for me in Rotterdam (I trained to run a good chunk quicker than 2:30), and the rest is history.

    Incidentally, I don't think Rotterdam was my greatest race experience. If somebody had told me at the 40km mark that I would finish in 2:30:01, I don't think I'd have had any bother finding those extra two seconds. At some point between 35 and 40kms, the head dropped, I lost focus and defeat settled in. I like to think that may have been caused by chemical imbalance (electrolyte loss, low glycogen) because it's more addressable than mental weakness, but it could just as easily be the other.

    ...and now I'm rambling.. Nope, no massive barrier, just taking it one race at a time. I know in the past I've said (written) that I will never break 2:30. That's because it didn't exist for me as a realistic goal until I was one hop away.


    I know - I had to think about it. There's something that bothers me about amateur athletics in Ireland - and it's not the questions about drug-use. It's the speculation about drug-use and I'm very uncomfortable with it. It's the 'that guy has made massive improvements - he must be on drugs' or the 'I heard she was taking x' conversations. Sometimes it's aimed at high-profile athletes and other times it's at every-day runners like you and me - people we know would never dare cross that line. We Irish people have a history of begrudgery and it's often easier and more convenient to believe that someone's improvement has come from unnatural means, because it justifies our own failures or is a more palatable explanation. It's not a problem unique to running either. Someone gets a promotion - what did they have to do for it? Someone gets a new car? Where did the money come from? Somebody runs a 5 minute PB in the marathon - how did they improve so much over such a short period of time? We do it because it's part of our nature and modern media has created an environment where we are naturally suspicious and question everything. A lot of people have visited this log over the last 9 years. I'm fortunate to be able to count many of them among my friends. But there are many others who follow the log who I have never met and may never meet, who may not know how strongly principled I am (less about others, and more inwardly focused on my own progress and improvements). So probably unnecessary, but you never can tell.


    Thanks John. That's incredibly kind. I feel duty-bound to disagree, and in turn suggest that you are one of my great inspirations, but not taking compliments is also a very typical Irish trait (what this old dress?), so you in turn would feel duty bound to disagree. So lets just move swiftly onwards!

    How did you find out about the dress? It was just one time, it was just an experiment, I was drunk.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,505 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    ultrapercy wrote: »
    How did you find out about the dress? It was just one time, it was just an experiment, I was drunk.
    There are no secrets from Facebook... :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,936 ✭✭✭annapr


    ultrapercy wrote: »
    How did you find out about the dress? It was just one time, it was just an experiment, I was drunk.

    Classic response... proving Krusty's point about taking a compliment :pac:

    Epic stuff here... running, philosophy, performances, drama... definitely a book in it!

    I blame that pacer giving you a dig for the 2 seconds lost.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭finisklin


    Long time lurker on here and so much inspiration for whatever level you are at in running.

    Reading your blog Krusty is like an online running school. Powerful improvement nuggets throughout.

    Incredible achievement and the hard work, perseverance that was involved is a credit to you. Best of luck for your future endeavours and I look forward to reading them here or in a book!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    ultrapercy wrote: »
    How did you find out about the dress? It was just one time, it was just an experiment, I was drunk.

    That dress was just resting on your torso!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    Since you reminded me, Krusty, a question about your asthma......you only take it when absolutely necessary. Do you ever feel compromised physically? I've had mild asthma since I was about 40, when I was still smoking. I continue to take my daily inhaler, plus the preventer when necessary (salbutamol in the blue dispenser). I don't see it as gaining some kind of advantage (despite what I know about the statistically above-average use among elite athletes (and amateurs (brackets within brackets....is that allowed?)) now I'm confused....) as I know that if I stop using the daily inhaler for a day or two, I'll start to wheeze a bit in training.

    To summarise: does your asthma almost never bother you despite the constant training and racing?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭Younganne


    Brilliant report and brilliant running. You're some man for one man!!:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    Ok, I've just read this gem of a post:

    "Book of Revelations
    A fantastic run today. Though it was very humid and it rained on me throughout the 11 mile medium long run, I loved every minute of it.

    Why?
    Because I rediscovered the good book, and now, once again, count myself among the flock of happy runners. For too long, have I forgotten or ignored the good word. For too long have I tried to beat my own training times in my training log. And for too long have I treated every endurance workout as a running race. Well no longer. I have seen the light, and I'd like to share the light of his words with you in the form of these commandments:

    1) The medium long run (11-16 miles) should be run at the same pace as your long steady/slow run (LSR).
    2) Running very fast is for races or speed-work only. Running very fast in all training sessions will only lead to injury or affect your speedwork and recovery times.
    3) Slaughter not the calves on endurance runs for they propel you on all of your training sessions.
    4) Long run pace should be race pace plus 20% (quicker than) for the first part of your run, and plus 10% for the last five miles. Study the holy table and discern your appropriate pace:

    Marathon Goal Pace
    Early Pace
    Last 5 miles
    5:00mi 6:00mi 5:30mi
    5:30mi 6:36mi 6:03mi
    6:00mi 7:12mi 6:36mi
    6:30mi 7:48mi 7:09mi
    7:00mi 8:24mi 7:42mi
    7:30mi 9:00mi 8:15mi
    8:00mi 9:36mi 8:48mi

    5) Recovery pace shall be Planned Marathon Pace + 2 minutes. No longer shall it be PMP + 20 seconds (the devil awaits those who cheat on their recovery runs).
    6) Thy reward shall come at the end of thy training program, not during every session.
    7) Too many races is the devil's indulgence. Save yourself for the almighty crusades.
    8) Thou should spend no more than 5 minutes on thy training log, otherwise though will fail all thy exams."


    Which has answered the question in my mind at the time: why the **** is he running so fast all the time??? I know he's a 2.30 runner now, but he bloody well wasn't in 2009!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,265 ✭✭✭jfh


    Well Done krusty, haven't posted here in A/R in ages but felt compelled to throw in a few congratulatory words.
    it's an unbelievable journey you have gone on, i followed this logs back in the old days when you were working you way through the JD 10k training plan, learned a lot from the questions you posed. we were both around the same level so matched your training paces for a while, until you continued to move up a level, and another level & so on.

    as percy mentioned, this log is out on it's own, there's been some good ones down through the years but nothing to compare to the longevity & the adventure of the BAC 10k challenge


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,505 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    davedanon wrote: »
    To summarise: does your asthma almost never bother you despite the constant training and racing?
    No. In fact it's the complete opposite. It's the constant training, racing and as a consequence healthy lifestyle that has almost entirely eradicated the asthma. Like yourself, I'm a reformed smoker, and in fact it was the impact that smoking/asthma was having on my running that finally gave me cause to give up the ciggies for the last time. I determined to give up the ciggies and the inhalers at the same time and I haven't looked back. They're not completely eradicated - sadly my own stupidity has come at a cost and chest infections are now an annual event, but there's no winding back the clock. Obviously medical advice is a no-no, but from purely a race perspective, any dependency on anything that's not necessarily readily available during the race isn't a good thing. I gave up the inhalers because I was concerned about the long term affects the would have on me. I have chosen my words carefully to avoid medical advice, so hopefully they wont be redacted!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,140 ✭✭✭snailsong


    Fantastic racing and an even better race report.

    To my shame, I haven't been a regular follower of your log. I will now.

    To my further shame, I didn't get to meet you in Rotterdam. I was avoiding the pub for the afternoon, and would have been star struck anyway. Though my target was more modest, much of your report resonates deeply with my own experience. The feeling of seconds slipping away towards the end and particularly the overwhelming relief of finishing in one piece with the pb.
    Well done again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,179 ✭✭✭Gavlor


    People often ask what it takes to run at a high level - what are the magic workouts - what splits should I do - will I do 3x5m or a 5/4/3/2/1 - what does it take??

    KC's paragraph above captures it. Even without talking about specific workouts - we get it.

    Possibly one of the best paragraphs I've read here in a long while.

    You're bang on.

    I've just read that paragraph to my wife to remind her of how lucky she is that I'm inherently lazy!

    Gary your progress and commitment to improvement is inspiring stuff. As others have said, you really should consider penning a book to share the wealth of knowledge and experience with the running world.

    Out of curiosity, how many different coaching programmes have you gone thru at this stage?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,505 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    snailsong wrote: »
    would have been star struck anyway.
    Thanks snailsong, but as those who've met me can confirm, I'm not star-striking material and a visit to the pub would have rapidly confirmed that.
    Gavor wrote:
    Out of curiosity, how many different coaching programmes have you gone thru at this stage?
    May not be entirely accurate, but... I started with a plan loosely based on one of Hal Higdon's intermediate plans (3:25 and 3:22). Switched to Pfitzinger and Douglas (3:00, 2:55, 2:48, 2:48). Switched to Jack Daniels Running Formula edition 2 - plan A (2:43, 2:38, 2:38). Then finally to Magness: 2:35, 2:33, 2:30). There has of course been lots of other programs (5k, 10k), but largely they'd have come from the above authors/references. For Berlin, I'll likely follow a similar modified variation of the Magness plan, same mileage - tweaked paces. In the interim, I'm thinking I'll probably take on the Macmillan 10k sessions, while gradually building up tempo time, with a view to trying to run a good 10k, while also preparing myself for the hardship of the marathon program.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,985 ✭✭✭opus


    Plans are being formulated. I now know what it takes to run a sub 2:30 marathon. The road to Berlin begins.

    Congratulations on a fantastic & well deserved result, I'm really glad I picked up an entry for Belin now so I'll be there in person to see how it goes albeit somewhat back the field :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,771 ✭✭✭jebuz


    What an enthralling read from start to finish perfectly capturing the essence and the magic of the marathon. What an amazing journey you've had (so far) and you've clearly enjoyed almost every step of it. I remember sitting at the kitchen table that morning and letting out a roar of my own when I saw the 2:29:59 pop up on that tracker. Everybody was rooting for you yet for me like many others, there was almost a sense of unsurprising inevitability when I saw the result. You rarely fail to impress and that 'revised' time doesn't change a thing for me. That was a huge performance.

    Whatever happens in the next attempt, whether you do avenge those 2 seconds or not (I know what my money's on), just know that you have made a massive impact on so many runners both on and off the forum through the years, myself included. Just look at the reaction to your report alone. I remember speaking to you a while back and you didn't even know that 3 years ago you had a massive impact in helping me dip under 3 hours through your unselfish advice on this forum. I apologise in advance for this sickening lavishment of praise but I'm saying it anyway, you really have inspired so many people to dream bigger, to dismiss self imposed limits and just go for it, that's a great thing. There's no messing with your training and racing, you have a great attitude and you just get on with it regardless of the setbacks. It's just good old fashioned hard grinding with a healthy dose of creative writing and I for one have learned a lot from you. So there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    Heh. "I think you're great, and I don't care if you hate that fact."


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭aero2k


    Hi Gary,

    That's a great report on a performance that was as amazing as it was unsurprising. RQ can knock a couple of categories off the annual awards this year.:)

    Just on the references to performance-enhancing substances above: it never ceases to amaze me how many people are willing to engage in some form of cheating - diving in football, cutting corners in races, various chemical aids. I (used to) race to see how fast I could go - in other words as a way to test the effectiveness of my training and my mental and physical condition on the day. I'm with you on the asthma medication - I used to take inhalers but cut them out apart from rare occasions (after consultation with my GP). Believe it or not, back in the early 80's there were lots of stories of lads taking various substances so they could impress on weekend bike rides. A bit sad really.

    A bit OT, but while I have a slight amount of sympathy with people who are desperate to make a living and feel they need to cheat to survive, I'm really angry at the effect this cheating behaviour has on those who compete clean. It's pretty shocking that you felt the need to state your position. Anyone who has followed your progress would understand the dedication it takes - as you pointed out above, doing the miles is almost the easier bit, the hard bit is doing all the stuff that has to get done so you can lace up the shoes and get out the door day after day. It's not hard to see that the whole point for you is measuring the results of that hard work, and any artificial assistance would defeat the purpose.

    Those that don't understand that are probably incapable of understanding.

    Fcuk the begrudgers!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭hot buttered scones


    Sorry to be a smart a-rse but I couldn't resist:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IA3ZvCkRkQ

    On a more serious note, reading through your log has definitely inspired me to look beyond my perceived limitations and there's now an idea growing in my mind that I could possibly achieve a lot more than some arbitrary target I set myself a year or so back. Well done again.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Dubgal72


    Worth waiting for! A 2:30 grade report indeed.

    Question: (and apologies if you've covered this before) Will your schedule allow you to hop in with a group session on a weekly basis for the next block? I noticed you commented on Jebuzizezes' Leevale setup in his latest Vol II and wondered if this had hit your 'marginal gains' list?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,505 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Dubgal72 wrote: »
    Worth waiting for! A 2:30 grade report indeed.

    Question: (and apologies if you've covered this before) Will your schedule allow you to hop in with a group session on a weekly basis for the next block? I noticed you commented on Jebuzizezes' Leevale setup in his latest Vol II and wondered if this had hit your 'marginal gains' list?
    I wish it were so easy Dubgal. The problem with the marathon is that the training is pretty unique - in fact, even if you consider Neil - his marathon training tends to be quite different to my own (we're tackling different strengths and weaknesses), so if we were both marathon training at the same time, the types of sessions we were doing would be quite different (and his would also be a good chunk faster), so instead we get together for easy runs, to whittle away an hour or two and solve the world's problems. I have jumped in on a few of his sessions (I ran a 3k PB on the track, while doing one of his 1-2-3-2-1 km track sessions!), and he has jumped in on a few of my 5k/10k sessions when between plans.

    TRR had set-up a cross-club group for meeting up for long-runs (all runners targeting in an around the 2:30 mark), and that had huge promise, but of the 9 of us in the group, not one of us made it to Berlin, which raises the point that if TRR ever organizes a drinking session in a brewery, I'm staying home to avoid the resulting injuries. But yeah, I think if we could get a long run group like that going again, we would all benefit from it hugely.

    The final point is logistics. As I type this, I'm still in work. I'm planning another run this evening, but it'll have to wait for at least another hour until I get home (and between Emer and myself, we'll have to cook dinner and go shopping this evening). Everybody similarly leads busy lives, so finding a regular time for a session would be a near impossibility (I actually worked through most of my bank holiday yesterday, so I wouldn't be overwhelmed with work today, but here I sit typing (tabbing between this browser and another window, where I have some processes I'm waiting on to finish). Anyway, not a sob story - thankfully my work is flexible enough that I can do sessions at lunch-time and I often do. Evening availability though can be quite hit and miss. I think group training would lead to more significant gains (not marginal), but the reality is that it's unlikely to happen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Dubgal72


    I think group training would lead to more significant gains (not marginal), but the reality is that it's unlikely to happen

    Better get writing so.......

    But seriously, if there are significant gains to be made, would you consider 'making it happen'? Runners are a selfish breed. Sonia agrees (am reading My Story....again....). Is there a little bit more selfishness you can squeeze out? (Emer: sorrysorrysorrysorrysorrysorrysorrysorry!)

    Oh and ps in the event that you find a club/group to accommodate a regular session, transfer forms will never be signed. Never. Goddit??


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    there's the Marathon Mission group - I don't know how often they meet, but could be useful?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,505 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    DubGal wrote:
    But seriously, if there are significant gains to be made, would you consider 'making it happen'?
    There's selfishness and necessity and unfortunately, working long days/evenings falls on the necessity side, which only leaves weekends. I actually force myself to leave work a couple of times a week at 6:45pm to go run with others, otherwise 95% of my running would be solo (with tunes/podcasts for company). There are of course others in the gym when I do a session on the treadmill, but they just stare at me aghast.
    giphy.gif

    I'm pretty confident about my plan for Berlin in September and that I can do it within my current environment/infrastructure, but looking beyond that (and if my environment changes) I'll definitely lean in that direction. Work is long, but it has also been instrumental in my progress, as I do have the freedom to get out for up to two hours during the day (it just means working even later as a consequence). Not many have the luxury of getting out for medium long run or session during the day. There is a very strong group of runners who meet up for lunchtime sessions down around Irishtown, so I just need to make sure that my next job takes me down that direction!
    RayCun wrote: »
    there's the Marathon Mission group - I don't know how often they meet, but could be useful?
    I'm five minutes and two seconds outside of their entrance criteria. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    I'm five minutes and two seconds outside of their entrance criteria. :)

    No, they let joggers in now too!


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,505 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    RayCun wrote: »
    No, they let joggers in now too!
    .
    Groucho wrote:
    "I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member".


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭nop98


    What a fabulous report - many thanks for taking the time to write it up, super useful for us mere mortals.

    I am sure you've seen it already, but the Dutch TV footage is available online. So far, I have spotted the group with the leading Dutch woman, featuring a very recognizable singlet of the local club (as well as a runner known only as "big bald bollix") around the 25 minute mark!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,441 ✭✭✭Slogger Jogger


    I think the username big bald bollix is still available if yer man wanted to join Boards :P


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭Bahanaman


    Also around the 53 min mark! (on the red marathon clock on the bottom right)


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