Prostitution

The_Minister

I'm not really looking for an overarching kinda debate, if I was, I'd head to humanities.
I've just heard a fair number of women say (in private, and in the media), that the existance of prostitutes is degrading to women. I've even heard it from women who would normally be very good at saying "this is my business, and that's hers", and they want to ban it, because of that.

I have to admit that I don't really understand this arguement (you see it applied to strip-clubs too). The existance of male prostitutes doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Do any of the boards sisterhood feel this way?

Ghost Train

they want to ban it, because of that

i was under the impression it was banned...

The_Minister

eolhc wrote: »

i was under the impression it was banned...

Solicitation is.

Cmol

I do and I don't

I believe that it should be legalised, as it is in NZ and other countries - I think no matter what you say about women that get into prostitution they deserve laws and the protection that they can have. If they are raped or abused they deserve the right to be able to go to the guards without worrying about ramifications themselves.

I believe that any woman who gets into prostitution, gets in to it because they have hit rock bottom and have nowhere else to go, whether its to support a drug habit or purely to survive, and there is noone on this earth who could make me believe that they don't deserve the right to protection by the law.

In saying that, I do see it as a degrading career choice, what is banning it going to do? Force it further underground than it already is? Where does that leave the women themselves?

GirlInterrupted

I completely agree with cmol, I would like to see sex workers protected by law, working in secure environments, and given full access to healthcare and well educated in disease prevention.

I have no objection to prostitutes working these ideal conditions, but the fact is that this would drive up the price, and there will always be a market for cheaper services, probably provided by the more desperate sex workers driven into the trade by drug dependancy, pimps, or sheer desperation.

What I don't see happening is prostitution becoming a respected career choice.

The existance of lap dancing clubs is a little different. I'm not sure how I feel about them to be honest, but I do feel that a dozen lads taking pictures of a barely clad dancers privates with their mobile phones objectifies the woman - and by extention - all women.

cuckoo

GirlInterrupted wrote: »

What I don't see happening is prostitution becoming a respected career choice.

Exactly, i really don't evisage children announcing during career talks in school "i wanna work in the sex industry when i grow up".

It's not a career that I think people go into by choice, for every story that crappy women's magazines do about middle class girls working as escorts to put themselves through Oxford or Cambridge there must be thousands of men and women who work as prostitutes through desperation.

However, it's not called 'the oldest profession' for nothing - and it'll be around whether legalised or not.

So, my thoughts on it can be summed up as it's a sadness some people feel they have no other options - but it doesn't degrade 'women' in general.

What degrades Irish society in my opinion is that we cannot be pragmatic, realistic and compassionate about it. There should be health and safety inspectors for sex workers places of work, panic buttons that connect to garda stations and sex workers should be allowed form co-op type brothels.

MJOR

Well legalising it would certainly regulate it to a degree. It is the oldest profession known. Part of me thinks that if it's the individuals decision to do it then why am i to argue. The other part of me thinks that some women are forced into it.

I have a live and let live attitude. But only if its the persons own decision

Macha

I think prostitution should be legalised but only to make life easier for prostitutes, not for their clients. The consequences of illegal prostitution are human trafficking, exploitation of the prostitutes and removal of their safety nets, such as the police and health services.

But I do see most prostitution as the result of:
a) poverty and lack of options for many people around the world
b) some humans' ability to view another human being as nothing more than a commodity and often ignore their very obvious suffering.

I say most, because I do think some people are happy to work in the industry and not all prostitutes are suffering terribly on a poor wage. And I see little difference between men visiting women in hotel rooms and young men "charming" older female tourists in places like the Caribbean in return for money and other valuable items.

Although, what does it say that the vast majority of both male and female prostitutes clients are men?

Edit: Just thought of something. Sometimes, a woman is taken to represent all other women, which isn't really fair. So I don't think it's fair to say that one woman working as a prostitute necessarily reflects badly on all women. Just as in the same way, one male prostitute is never considered to "represent" all other men. So I don't think that's a good argument against it. Although, I have heard feminist arguments about prostitution and strip clubs and how they are basically a way of ensuring that women's bodies are always available to men - there is some truth to it..

rediguana

I'm male and I don't give a damn about the plight of male prostitutes.

Wherever prostitution is legalised, the number of men visiting prostitutes increases markedly. Is this a good thing? Probably not. For many men (not me, I have a wife), it's too easy if there's a brothel you can go to. I used to work with a guy in Australia who would go to a prostitute on his lunch break. The mystery is how he got any work done in the afternoon. I'd just want a steak and a nap.

BKtje

Wherever prostitution is legalised, the number of men visiting prostitutes increases markedly. Is this a good thing? Probably not.

Bad for who? The prostitutes or for society in general?

Galvasean

In Amsterdam they have legalized and heavily regulated prostitution industry. It's a lot safer (for all involved) than unregulated illegal prostitution.

Macha

Galvasean wrote: »

In Amsterdam they have legalized and heavily regulated prostitution industry. It's a lot safer (for all involved) than unregulated illegal prostitution.

Yes. But it's important to recognise that illegal prostitution and human trafficking still takes place, even in Amsterdam. So legalisation is part of the solution, but not the whole solution.

Galvasean

Oh of course not. It's not a simple case of legalizing it will make all the problems go away. but at least in this instance there it's not a complete taboo subject.
In a place where prostitution was illegal a girl going to the police for help (abusive pimp or what not) is just as likely to be fined or thrown in jail than helped.

pretty-in-pink

I think it should be legalised to keep in safe, for them and anyone who would use them. I don't think its degrading to women, I don't think that its a good career choice personally. However, sex sells, so why not sell it (once its safe and clean)? Its not like anyone is forcing people to use prostitutes, they are meerly filling a hole in the market.

Macha

pretty-in-pink wrote: »

However, sex sells, so why not sell it (once its safe and clean)?

Well even when it is clean and safe, the prostitute is always at risk of catching something from the client. Assuming the prostitute is legal and clean, the client should have little to worry about but normally with legal prostitution it's the prostitute that has to prove she's clean with no similar requirement for the client.

pretty-in-pink wrote: »

Its not like anyone is forcing people to use prostitutes, they are meerly filling a hole in the market.

Well I think the bigger question is are any prostitutes being forced into it and the evidence shows that some are.

And why exactly do people feel the need to go to a prostitute?

Galvasean

taconnol wrote: »

Well even when it is clean and safe, the prostitute is always at risk of catching something from the client.

Well in Amsterdam condoms are an absolute must - no exceptions. Also a prostitute there can turn down any customer for whatever reason they see fit. So I guess if they see something they think might be STI related they can just say no. That and the condoms should be fairly encompassing.

taconnol wrote:

And why exactly do people feel the need to go to a prostitute?

For no strings attached sex with a woman who would normally be out of their league. (Well, that's perhaps the most obvious one)

BKtje

And why exactly do people feel the need to go to a prostitute?

Sex without strings attached.
Acts that wife/girlfriend wouldn't do.
Easily available sex.
Younger men wanting (the)experience etc

..the list is really almost endless.

stovelid

If a male or female chooses to do it solely on their own volition (no habit, no pimp); they are in sole control of their earnings, and in a safe, regulated environment, I have no issue with it.

As for the issue of why people go to prostitutes: I don't go, and I don't particularly care why others go. Just as long as the above conditions are fulfilled.

pretty-in-pink

stovelid wrote: »

If a male or female chooses to do it solely on their own volition (no habit, no pimp); they are in sole control of their earnings, and in a safe, regulated environment, I have no issue with it.

As for the issue of why people go to prostitutes: I don't go, and I don't particularly care why others go. Just as long as the above conditions are fulfilled.

I wholeheartedly agree

Galvasean

stovelid wrote: »

If a male or female chooses to do it solely on their own volition (no habit, no pimp); they are in sole control of their earnings, and in a safe, regulated environment, I have no issue with it.

That pretty much sums up my opinion on the matter.

Reku

From reading the posts so far I see the following pros and cons:
Pro - Can be better controlled so as to ensure that all workers are participating of their own volition

Con - could be seen as a social acceptance of the use of prostitutes, encouraging people to do so.

Pro - can ensure regular screening for STDs, protecting both clients, and prostitutes (fear of being prevented from continuing to work could act as a deterant to them permitting unprotected sex)

Pro - prostitutes could readily go to the gardai should someone try rough them up or anything

Con - May cause some males to further objectify women in general

Con - Will further cement the commercialisation of sex and use of it as a commodity for trade.


Even from these it's clear that simply legalising it alone won't help that much and planning and rules for operating as a prostitute would have to be put in place and even then you'll still get people abusing loopholes to take advantage of women who are not in a good position to look out for themselves as regards this.

Galvasean

Well in Amsterdam (sorry, only example I'm familiar with) each prostitute has their own room/booth. Supposedly each room has at least one panic button they can press should a client become aggressive, refuse to leave etc. at that point security guards are never more than a few seconds away the rooms are linked to a larger complex where security/offices reside). Apparently there are more security staff employed in the red light district than prostitutes.
It all seems pretty above the board there. I can't speak for other places though.

WindSock

Victimless crime.

farohar wrote: »

Con - could be seen as a social acceptance of the use of prostitutes, encouraging people to do so.

But if it already socially accepted, what's the harm in encouraging people to take it up?

Macha

B-K-DzR wrote: »

Sex without strings attached.
Acts that wife/girlfriend wouldn't do.
Easily available sex.
Younger men wanting (the)experience etc

..the list is really almost endless.

I would add:

-selfishness - no need to please other partner
-laziness - no need to make effort to attract someone
-issues with responsibility
-extreme desire to have entirely devoted woman
-issues of control over women - I read of one case where a man wanted the prostitute to give him a blowjob in front of a mirror and he would hold a bundle of $50 notes over her -to give him that feeling of control.

My point is, all of these things are perfectly possible emotions among women. So why don't more women visit prostitutes? And please don't respond with the myth that any woman can go out and get any guy she wants to sleep with her-it just isn't true.

The_Minister

pretty-in-pink wrote: »

Its not like anyone is forcing people to use prostitutes, they are meerly filling a hole in the market.

Classy:D

I think one of the main reasons guys use prostitutes is to get women who are beyond them do their own ugliness/ lack of social graces etc.
Although the classic image of an emancipated drug-monkey trading head for drugs kinda puts a stick in the spokes of that theory.

Dragan

It should be noted that women also go to male prostitutes for sex. But that never really comes up in these conversations.

getz

reading this thread reminds me of a story as told by a famous british femail film and tv star when when working along side a now dead upercrust film star she was taken to one side and asked{in a posh voice}if she could help him out it, seems he had a young nephew comming of age so it was traditional for his class to find a discrete young lady to show the boy how to have sex--saves them going to prostitutes

panda100

Dragan wrote: »

It should be noted that women also go to male prostitutes for sex. But that never really comes up in these conversations.

Has anyone on the ladies lounge every gone to a male prostiute for sex?
Would anyone here know where to even seek out a male prostitute?
I wouldnt, but If I was a bloke I could go to any seedy lapdancing club, waterloo road in Dublin,dock road in Limerick etc etc.
Male prostitition and female prostitution are not really comparable, unless theres hundreds of Eastern European men being trafficked into the country that I dont know about............

MagicMarker

panda100 wrote: »

Has anyone on the ladies lounge every gone to a male prostiute for sex?
Would anyone here know where to even seek out a male prostitute?
I wouldnt, but If I was a bloke I could go to any seedy lapdancing club, waterloo road in Dublin,dock road in Limerick etc etc.
Male prostitition and female prostitution are not really comparable, unless theres hundreds of Eastern European men being trafficked into the country that I dont know about............

I'm a male prostitute.

Your point is void.

The_Minister

panda100 wrote: »

Has anyone on the ladies lounge every gone to a male prostiute for sex?
Would anyone here know where to even seek out a male prostitute?
I wouldnt, but If I was a bloke I could go to any seedy lapdancing club, waterloo road in Dublin,dock road in Limerick etc etc.
Male prostitition and female prostitution are not really comparable, unless theres hundreds of Eastern European men being trafficked into the country that I dont know about............

Ask in The George.

They'll sort you out.

badolepuddytat

Never used or met a male or female prostitute.......that I know of http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=57670790&postcount=60

The_Minister wrote: »

I think one of the main reasons guys use prostitutes is to get women who are beyond them do their own ugliness/ lack of social graces etc.
Although the classic image of an emancipated drug-monkey trading head for drugs kinda puts a stick in the spokes of that theory.

I think people who use prostitutes do it for power and satisfy their own urges in an easy/lazy manner (not having to risk rejection trying to pick someone up or talk a partner into an act). I doubt that the man/woman performing the act for pay is 'beyond them' in the customers eyes. I'd imagine that customers feel ashamed of themselves that they indulge themselves with someone who's clearly down on their luck and would be anywhere else in the world than with them. Hence they resent the prostitute for 'making' them feel bad and want to degrade them more.

It's very hard to offer protection (legal, physical, sexual) workers in the sex industry, particular at the bottom of the pecking order without some sort of legalisation of the industry. I feel sorry for all involved in the industry, people who feel the need to pay someone for intimacy and the people stuck servicing them.