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M3 fast?

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭Climate Expert


    or even that fake feeling of acceleration that turbo diesels give.
    Nothing fake about it. In physical terms they have more peak acelleration which feels better espcecially when you are driving on roads and don't want to be hitting 100mph in 12 seconds.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,651 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    I was in a GTI there last weekend and coming from a TDI passat I was quite underwhelmed. The initial kick and whoosh in teh back wasn't as hard but it did keep accelerating and more linearly. I just like that kick though myself.

    I think you are confusing power and torque maybe.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭Climate Expert


    I think you are confusing power and torque maybe.
    No we're talking about acceleration here. The stuff that makes your body feel force, f=m x a. A lot of fairly average turbo diesels give greater acceleration and greater force. Overall slower to accelerate to high speeds but they still feel faster in this way.
    Might be over your head Henry.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭Biro


    Nothing fake about it. In physical terms they have more peak acelleration which feels better espcecially when you are driving on roads and don't want to be hitting 100mph in 12 seconds.

    It's fake when one car "feels" almost as quick as another, yet the other can do the 0-60 run in 4 seconds less!
    Peak acceleration serves only to fool people who don't know any better! For everyday lazy or uninterested drivers it's ideal, cause they just touch the acclerator and hey presto there's 90% of the cars mediocre power.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭Climate Expert


    Biro wrote: »
    For everyday lazy or uninterested drivers it's ideal,.
    Yep who wants to go 0-60 in 4 seconds on a public road anyway.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 31,025 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Turbodiesels do give a false sense of acceleration, because it is not sustained.

    My 2.2 turbodiesel makes my stomach go weird in second gear acceleration, but takes more than 10s to get to 100kph (and that reflects its true performance, believe me).

    My fastest N/A petrol car did 0-100 in under 4 seconds, but never gave me that "stomach lurch" from the acceleration.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭Ferris


    Biro wrote: »
    It's fake when one car "feels" almost as quick as another, yet the other can do the 0-60 run in 4 seconds less!

    In my book how a car makes me "feel" is the most important thing. I'm not interested in racing skylines away from the lights however.

    Driving my mates 106GTI a few years back was unreal as all the car was was a small revvy engine in a tiny light car with brilliant brakes and suspension, now that felt quick.:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭Biro


    Yep who wants to go 0-60 in 4 seconds on a public road anyway.

    If you'd care to re-read my post I said 4 seconds less. As in a GTI Golf does the 0 to 60 run in nearly 4 seconds less time than a Passat 130 TDI for example. That's significantly quicker, regardless of how either car feels for the driver or passenger.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭Biro


    Ferris wrote: »
    In my book how a car makes me "feel" is the most important thing. I'm not interested in racing skylines away from the lights however.

    Driving my mates 106GTI a few years back was unreal as all the car was was a small revvy engine in a tiny light car with brilliant brakes and suspension, now that felt quick.:D

    We're solely talking about acceleration feel here. 106 GTi is a legend FWD car, but that's a whole other conversation about handling etc.
    I remember a conversation once where a guy claimed "TDi is faster than GTi" his reasoning was that his Toledo 90bhp diesel was quicker than his mates 106GTI. In both cases he was wrong, the Toledo might have felt faster, but it was neither faster nor better than the 106 from an enthusiast driver's point of view.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭Climate Expert


    As in a GTI Golf does the 0 to 60 run in nearly 4 seconds less time than a Passat 130 TDI for example.
    Its 3 seconds for only the quickest of GTIs.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭Biro


    Its 3 seconds for only the quickest of GTIs.

    6.9 seconds is still a lot brisker than 9.8 seconds.


  • Registered Users Posts: 31,025 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Yep who wants to go 0-60 in 4 seconds on a public road anyway.

    I'm not sure whether you're being ironically rhetorical or not.

    Why wouldn't you want to go 0-60 (mph presumably) in four seconds?

    It may not be possible in many situations, but that doesn't make it any less fun or occasionally useful (for instance, when pulling out of a petrol station onto a 100kph road).


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭Ferris


    Biro wrote: »
    We're solely talking about acceleration feel here. 106 GTi is a legend FWD car, but that's a whole other conversation about handling etc.
    I remember a conversation once where a guy claimed "TDi is faster than GTi" his reasoning was that his Toledo 90bhp diesel was quicker than his mates 106GTI. In both cases he was wrong, the Toledo might have felt faster, but it was neither faster nor better than the 106 from an enthusiast driver's point of view.

    My point still is that when a car feels fast what more point is there, actual acceleration is pointless outside of motor racing. If you can get that thrill from a 1.6 with low tax, insurance etc whats the point in shelling out for a 3.2 M3.

    I do love the M3 however, as a package its a great car.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,282 ✭✭✭Bandara


    Yep who wants to go 0-60 in 4 seconds on a public road anyway.

    I would.

    I really really really would love to have a car that could do 0-60 in 4 seconds.


  • Registered Users Posts: 31,025 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Ferris wrote: »
    My point still is that when a car feels fast what more point is there, actual acceleration is pointless outside of motor racing. If you can get that thrill from a 1.6 with low tax, insurance etc whats the point in shelling out for a 3.2 M3.

    Because there are many routes up Mount Motoring Nirvana.

    Most performance road cars are completely pointless from a practical transportation perspective, but people buy them because they are lovely things and can be enjoyed at mostly legal speeds (and higher on race circuits).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭Climate Expert


    Lumen wrote: »
    Because there are many routes up Mount Motoring Nirvana.

    Most performance road cars are completely pointless from a practical transportation perspective, but people buy them because they are lovely things and can be enjoyed at mostly legal speeds (and higher on race circuits).
    They can't be enjoyed without breaking the law on our roads. I would find owning one incredibly frustrating.


  • Registered Users Posts: 31,025 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    They can't be enjoyed without breaking the law on our roads. I would find owning one incredibly frustrating.

    Then you are self-harming through your ignorance.

    The most accelerative car I've owned didn't go much over 100mph, as it had the aerodynamics of a brick and less than 140bhp. It did 0-60mph in about 4 seconds (some said 3.8, I never tried to measure it).

    It was utterly fantastic at completely legal speeds, and felt much even faster than it was (it shamefully made my 9 year old stepson bawl when I took him out in it, and I wasn't even trying).

    And then there are track days...


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,651 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    No we're talking about acceleration here. The stuff that makes your body feel force, f=m x a. A lot of fairly average turbo diesels give greater acceleration and greater force. Overall slower to accelerate to high speeds but they still feel faster in this way.
    Might be over your head Henry.

    Au contraire mon ami :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    They can't be enjoyed without breaking the law on our roads. I would find owning one incredibly frustrating.

    I understand what you're saying, but not entirely accurate.

    Yes, can be frustrating at times, but, and here's the thing you can't measure.......those that can't, always try to. Those that know they can....well, they don't need to. :D:D For 'to' use, drive/handle/accelerate/perform etc.

    There is also the real benefit that performance cars or their ilk, perform at legal speeds etc, with far greater reserves of safety than lesser cars. This is a by-product of things like their brakes, tyres, suspension. And reflects the R & D spend in them.

    If ever there was a safety argument in favour of hi-po cars, that's it....

    On another level, higher class cars also generally tend to be nicer places to be in. Whether it's the design, materials, technology, quietness - this is usually evident by being built to a spec, rather than to a budget....and these qualities are intangible, immeasurable.

    Until you sit into an 'ordinary' car that is.........and the penny drops.

    And, it's a fact, all cars on the market can exceed the speed limit, so technically, all cars are superfluous. But nothing is that simple, ever, is it ?

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭macnab


    They can't be enjoyed without breaking the law on our roads. I would find owning one incredibly frustrating.

    Believe me, you dont have to break the law to enjoy an M5. It still has that lovely V8 growl when your doing 50kmh, and for some daft reason I get a real kick out of going around a 90 degree tight bend at 20mph in 6th gear, try that in a diesel (kidding, dont) I think bottom line is you either want a supercar or you dont, or maybe you do and she wont let you:D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,282 ✭✭✭Bandara


    macnab wrote: »
    Believe me, you dont have to break the law to enjoy an M5. It still has that lovely V8 growl when your doing 50kmh, and for some daft reason I get a real kick out of going around a 90 degree tight bend at 20mph in 6th gear, try that in a diesel (kidding, dont) I think bottom line is you either want a supercar or you dont, or maybe you do and she wont let you:D

    Shame on you macnab, 'she' could be a 'he', even same sex relationships have a male and female role...

    :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭macnab


    Hammertime wrote: »
    Shame on you macnab, 'she' could be a 'he', even same sex relationships have a male and female role...

    :D
    Oh the shame of it, I take it back, I should have said "it wont let you" :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭SV


    Yeah M3s are slow.

    If you want that real feeling of power you need to get yourself a VW TDI engine.*









    in before the turbo diesel brigade go all out..

    *yes I'm joking.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 629 ✭✭✭cashmni1


    Lumen wrote: »
    Turbodiesels do give a false sense of acceleration, because it is not sustained.

    My 2.2 turbodiesel makes my stomach go weird in second gear acceleration, but takes more than 10s to get to 100kph (and that reflects its true performance, believe me).

    My fastest N/A petrol car did 0-100 in under 4 seconds, but never gave me that "stomach lurch" from the acceleration.

    @ Lumen: you don't own a Mondeo ST TDCI by any chance, do you?

    I was going to buy one last year but high VRT put me off.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭Climate Expert


    cashmni1 wrote: »
    @ Lumen: you don't own a Mondeo ST TDCI by any chance, do you?

    I was going to buy one last year but high VRT put me off.

    I'm guessing its an old Saab? Can't think of any other 2.2 that would be over 10 seconds to 60.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,053 ✭✭✭jimbling


    lumen, I'm also interested to know what this petrol car was that didn't do much over 100mph and could do 0-60 in under 4s????


  • Registered Users Posts: 31,025 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    jimbling wrote: »
    lumen, I'm also interested to know what this petrol car was that didn't do much over 100mph and could do 0-60 in under 4s????

    Caterham Fireblade (391kg + fuel).

    And I currently own a Honda FRV 2.2 diesel, and a 1.3 Suzuki Swift.

    Oh how the mighty fall before the sword of VRT, and children.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 629 ✭✭✭cashmni1


    jimbling wrote: »
    lumen, I'm also interested to know what this petrol car was that didn't do much over 100mph and could do 0-60 in under 4s????


    I'll hazard a guess, Chaterham.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,053 ✭✭✭jimbling


    Lumen wrote: »
    Caterham Fireblade (391kg + fuel).

    Absolutely Class!!!!!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 629 ✭✭✭cashmni1


    I'm guessing its an old Saab? Can't think of any other 2.2 that would be over 10 seconds to 60.
    I was going to question that alright.

    @ Lumen, mighty never fall......they just have a break.


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