New M20 - Flooding Concern

beaniebride

Hi,

The M20 proposed routes were published in July last. We have now discovered that there is a new proposed route which is likely to pass where we live. This route will pass through a flood plain. The NRA do not seem concerned but many of the homeowners and farmers in the area are very concerned and feel that this construction could put their homes at risk of severe flooding in the future.

Does anybody have any advise on our best course of action at the current time?

Thanks

Chris_533976

Any sketches of the new proposed route?

BluntGuy

The best course of action is to stop wasting time and build the flippin' M20.

In all seriousness though, according to the schedule of events, the EIS (due to published in May next year along with the Motorway Order) should address some of those concerns.

Victor

Tell them of your concerns and provide them with any information you can - when, where, etc.

Lennoxschips

Have a look at the news. The economy is in the jacks and there's an 11 billion euro hole in the budget.

I don't think flooding, but rather a drying up of funds, is what is going to stop this road being built.

Cool Mo D

Public consultation leaflet here:

Route Options
Warning: 20MB pdf!

I'd say it could be a while before this gets off the ground.

mysterious

Why do the NRA continue to build white elephant motorways beside every single old national primary route in the country.


Why is in this country do we have pathetic fools in office.



I say it again, AND I AM RIGHT. not explaining the reasons again.


TWO options.
Build the M20 along the old cork road at Cahercornlish and proceed to Mitchellstown and join M8 It's actually shorter distance between the two cities, and the M8 means half of its built. Everyones happy

Or

You could build a M24 along the south of the Existing N24 and swing onto the M8 just south Of Cahir. There you have a Complete motorway between Cork and Limerick, AND you have half the Waterford - Limerick motorway built


I ASK again to the idiots and people who don't know whats going on.
WHY are they wasting MILLIONS building roads alongside old radial routes? it just does not give motorways it full capacity and use for less the money.


For example look how close the M8 and M9 are on a map of Ireland
If these distance roads were built in France, France would like a spidergraph. France is now even trying to correct it's mistake by building radial motorways all leading to Paris, its caused Paris to be a too central focus on transport, and not enough connections for like the other cities. E.g Lyon and Bordeaux only have recently been linked up with a partial motorway now, and even still it's a bit off on the map in terms of travelling between the two cities, alot of under spec sections and TOTOs etc. Look at Germany and the UK system, they work wonders with their grid plan system.


But my point is LEARN from previous mistakes, Im tellling you the majority of the NRA should be SACKED, if they spend over 200 million on a motorway between Limerick and Cork. The M8 has covered half of the distance, why on earth can't they just fill that gap, and leave the N20 for local needs. Use the extra money left over to improving other roads etc. I think the NRA design officers, are total incompetent morons. Wasting millions in tax payers and unable to a professional job as they should do.

Motorways are not meant to follow blindly beside old local road ffs. Why were they allowed to this nonsense in the first place is fu** beyond me


NRA cop on and get your finger out now. :mad: Cus your playin with the countries tax payers money by the look of it, now. Stop it

Danno

I disagree. Many towns' businesses rely on these current N routes. By putting a corresponding M route around these towns increases local efficiency whilst keeping the passing trade near enough.

Lennoxschips

if there's a motorway bypass nobody will be stopping in the towns. if you are driving from limerick to cork you would just stay on the motorway. i used to always stop in cashel for a bite when driving from dublin to cork, now i couldn't be bothered.

as mysterious said, we should have built an efficient motorway system.

for much less money, this could have been built, and would be finished already

BluntGuy

Well I'm perfectly fine with the NRA's current plan.

It emulates the successful German-autobahn system rather than the somewhat-clogged trunk motorway network Britain adopted.

That said, I can see the logic in combining the M9 and M8 routes into one (they do run quite close to each other at one point), however, it also means that many towns are left without a high-speed motorway link.

And as far as I'm concerned, motorways are as much about linking the two terminal cities as the towns inbetween them.

The combined M7/M6 splitting for Limerick and Galway is also quite a good idea for saving money. But I do prefer having the M7 and M6 seperate purely because of all the towns it links.

So like I've said before, the major flaw with this is that the map suggests that motorway travel is purely between major cities. Definately not true. Between Cashel and Cahir, there are numerous people who use the efficient motorway link, which has freed up the adjacent R639 (I've cycled there, and it's a lot nicer now without the trucks). There are other examples such as Gorey and Arklow (although that's not strictly motorway yet).

I'm not for an M24 or full M2, but I am for the M20 and a partial Dublin bypass (for M4 and M7 traffic to bypass the M50).

Also, lennoxschips, your map doesn't seem to have an M11 on it. Surely linking two of our most important ports with a motorway is quite important?

Bogger77

Three things Lennox's map seems not to have taken into considerations.
Population, Terrain and traffic flow.

Take the route passing through Birr from Mountmellick to Limerick. For any road to pass that way it's either got to pass through lowland peat bogs, or through the Slieve Blooms, neither is cheap, easy or fast to build through. It would however follow close to the route of the Old Munster road from Tara to the south. Birr to Loughrea would have the same problems with peat bog but add in the problem of the Shannon Callows to bridge, since the river north of Portumna and south of Athlone floods to between 1 and 4 miles wide during winter, any structure would have to be elevated for a significant distance.
The routing of the main Dublin -Birr Limerick road to the North of Kildare would bring it straight through the widest part of the bog of Allen, pretty much Saillins to Mountmellick would be through lowland bog, the builders and maintainers of the grand canal have had 200 years of experience and experimentation and still haven’t managed to slow down and stop subsistence through that part of the country.
Dungarvan to Kilkenny to Dublin, follows the N76, my memory is that a route along there would have to pass through and over some pretty significant hills?

Population:
This map seems to avoid the inlands main centers of population, i.e. Athlone, Mullingar, Portlaoise, Thurles, Roscrea, Cavan, Monaghan, etc.

Traffic flow
The section of road from Naas to Dublin M50:
based on this map and current traffic there, there’s no way the M50 could sustain the traffic load hitting it. The motorway feeding the M50 would need to be 4 to 5 lines minimum, and M50 be 6 lanes e/w. But with all traffic hitting the M50, even that would back up, think M6, M5 and M42 in the Birmingham area. The new M7 would be akin to the 101 in SanFran area, i.e. too much traffic and no alternatives.
The suggested road from Duleek to Naas
would face similar over loading at junctions with M1 and M7

Lennoxschips

The four most important ports on the island are Dublin, Cork, Belfast and Shannon. There is nowhere near enough traffic going to Rosslare to justify a motorway. Fishguard on the other side doesn't have a motorway either, for the same reasons. How many cars come off a ferry at Rosslare? 100 every 180 minutes?

It's all very flattering comparing us to the German autobahn, but you can rest assured that German engineers would have built a much more efficiently laid out system. When we're done there'll be way more motorway per person in Ireland than there is in Germany.

And I don't know how you can say it's a grid system when all roads lead to Dublin.

This map seems to avoid the inlands main centers of population, i.e. Athlone, Mullingar, Portlaoise, Thurles, Roscrea, Cavan, Monaghan, etc.

It passes right past Port Laoise, a good link road to the motorway exit will solve that. Are people not satisfied unless they are within walking distance of a motorway? Athlone is already served by the N6, which, when relieved by the motorway, would be more than apt for the needs of that town. Ditto Thurles and the N8.

But the government have already made the deicision to build motorways between everywhere and Dublin, so it's too late.

The fact of the matter is that my map provides more links than we have already (it includes Cork-Limerick, Waterford-Cork, Cork-Kilkenny and Limerick-Galway), for less amount of road than we've built already. It would have cost less and have been finished already.

All we have at the moment are motorways leading to Dublin. That's it. The others aren't going to get built for another 15-20 years because the Celtic Tiger is finished. It was typical shortsightedness to think we'd have loads of money to forever to keep on building motorways forever until every village had its own dual carriageway. All we've built is a load of roads leading to Dublin.

Lennoxschips

The section of road from Naas to Dublin M50:
based on this map and current traffic there, there’s no way the M50 could sustain the traffic load hitting it. The motorway feeding the M50 would need to be 4 to 5 lines minimum, and M50 be 6 lanes e/w. But with all traffic hitting the M50, even that would back up, think M6, M5 and M42 in the Birmingham area. The new M7 would be akin to the 101 in SanFran area, i.e. too much traffic and no alternatives.

The current N7 already has Limerick, Cork and Waterford traffic combined. I added the Galway road into it. However, a bypass was added further out, so all traffic coming from Galway, Cork, Limerick and Waterford heading north of Dublin is taken out of the equation.

So the net effect could be a quieter road than we have at the moment.

mysterious

Danno wrote: »

I disagree. Many towns' businesses rely on these current N routes. By putting a corresponding M route around these towns increases local efficiency whilst keeping the passing trade near enough.

Yes the small villages and settlements have adequate N roads provided. While the Motorways connect the main settlements.


This is how roads work in the real world. It really doesn't matter if you don't agree or like it.

mysterious

BluntGuy wrote: »

Well I'm perfectly fine with the NRA's current plan.

You pay for the wasted millions. See if your fine then :rolleyes:

It emulates the successful German-autobahn system rather than the somewhat-clogged trunk motorway network Britain adopted.

No It doesn't You obviously haven't a clue about transport or maps. Go get some research done before you put stupid non facts on this thread.

That said, I can see the logic in combining the M9 and M8 routes into one (they do run quite close to each other at one point), however, it also means that many towns are left without a high-speed motorway link.

If you said that the M9/M9 could of been combined, then your contradicting yourself in your first sentense.

And as far as I'm concerned, motorways are as much about linking the two terminal cities as the towns inbetween them.

It's not about you, or what your concerned.

The combined M7/M6 splitting for Limerick and Galway is also quite a good idea for saving money. But I do prefer having the M7 and M6 seperate purely because of all the towns it links.

Why on earth do Irish people tend to think that every town in Ireland should be connected by motorways. ffs. Get real.

So like I've said before, the major flaw with this is that the map suggests that motorway travel is purely between major cities. Definately not true.

Yes it is true, go look at European maps.

Between Cashel and Cahir, there are numerous people who use the efficient motorway link, which has freed up the adjacent R639 (I've cycled there, and it's a lot nicer now without the trucks).

90% of trucks that use that road are long distance, absaloutly nothing to do with the local area, or local traffic. If the M8 was built elsewhere the trucks will follow the motorway. It has nothing to do with your point whatsoever.

mysterious

Lennoxschips wrote: »

But the government have already made the deicision to build motorways between everywhere and Dublin, so it's too late.

The fact of the matter is that my map provides more links than we have already (it includes Cork-Limerick, Waterford-Cork, Cork-Kilkenny and Limerick-Galway), for less amount of road than we've built already. It would have cost less and have been finished already.

All we have at the moment are motorways leading to Dublin. That's it. The others aren't going to get built for another 15-20 years because the Celtic Tiger is finished. It was typical shortsightedness to think we'd have loads of money to forever to keep on building motorways forever until every village had its own dual carriageway. All we've built is a load of roads leading to Dublin.

Yes I agree.

If we planned the road network properly. I.e have a proper all Ireland motorway system, Like the one you'e just drawn. All adequate, efficient and does just as well as the NRA system if not better for half the money!

It would save at least 2 billion in taxpayers money at least. Thats 2 billion in the coffers, that could of been now, put into a metro.


But you all vote for those ****en Fianna eejits.

BluntGuy

As usual mysterious, your sense of misplaced importance and overwhelming arrogance has seen you make yet another embarassing post.

mysterious wrote: »

You pay for the wasted millions. See if your fine then :rolleyes:

My millions are being wasted on stupid schemes like co-location and the like. I don't regard expenditure on the road network as wastage though.

mysterious wrote: »

No It doesn't You obviously haven't a clue about transport or maps. Go get some research done before you put stupid non facts on this thread.

Well seeing as though I lived in Britain for about ten years, I think I know what I'm talking about.

mysterious wrote: »

If you said that the M8/M9 could of been combined, then your contradicting yourself in your first sentense.

No it's called being reasonable (try it some time ) and trying to see where other people are coming from.

mysterious wrote: »

It's not about you, or what your concerned.

Oh. Silly me. Giving my opinion on a forum. :rolleyes:

mysterious wrote: »

Why on earth do Irish people tend to think that every town in Ireland should be connected by motorways. ffs. Get real.

When did I say that? I said we should try to connect as many towns as possible when building motorways between two points.

mysterious wrote: »

Yes it is true, go look at European maps.
90% of trucks that use that road are long distance, absaloutly nothing to do with the local area, or local traffic. If the M8 was built elsewhere the trucks will follow the motorway. It has nothing to do with your point whatsoever.

'absaloutly' - what the hell is word meant to be?

And what are you suggesting? That everybody who uses the M8 for example is going straight from Dublin to Cork and no-where inbetween?



Now I dunno what your problem is. But I've explained myself and I can't be bothered dealing with your stupid responses. I don't know if you're looking for an argument, or just trying to be funny. But whatever it is, it ain't working...

BluntGuy

mysterious wrote: »

But you all vote for those ****en Fianna eejits.

Well at least you got one thing right...

Lennoxschips

And what are you suggesting? That everybody who uses the M8 for example is going straight from Dublin to Cork and no-where inbetween?

The main goal is to link the main centres. Some towns are going to always lose out. On my map Youghal and Dungarvan are on a motorway. Currently they are not.

You're never going to please everybody all of the time, to try to do so would be folly. But when constituency gombeenism politics is allowed to dominate over common sense, folly becomes normality.

My map, for much less money, actually puts more new towns near roads, with the other towns still being served by the old, freed-up, N-roads. It creates the following routes:

Belfast-Dublin
Belfast-Waterford
Belfast-Cork
Belfast-Limerick
Belfast-Galway
Dublin-Limerick
Dublin-Galway
Dublin-Waterford
Dublin-Cork
Cork-Waterford
Cork-Limerick
Limerick-Galway

Whereas at the moment, with more money spent, we've achieved:

Dublin-Belfast
Dublin-Galway
Dublin-Limerick
Dublin-Cork
Dublin-Waterford

I know which option I'd have gone for...

BluntGuy

Lennoxschips wrote: »

The main goal is to link the main centres. Some towns are going to always lose out. On my map Youghal and Dungarvan are on a motorway. Currently they are not.

You're never going to please everybody all of the time, to try to do so would be folly. But when constituency gombeenism politics is allowed to dominate over common sense, folly becomes normality.

My map, for much less money, actually puts more new towns near roads, with the other towns still being served by the old, freed-up, N-roads. It creates the following routes:

Belfast-Dublin
Belfast-Waterford
Belfast-Cork
Belfast-Limerick
Belfast-Galway
Dublin-Limerick
Dublin-Galway
Dublin-Waterford
Dublin-Cork
Cork-Waterford
Cork-Limerick
Limerick-Galway

Whereas at the moment, with more money spent, we've achieved:

Dublin-Belfast
Dublin-Galway
Dublin-Limerick
Dublin-Cork
Dublin-Waterford

I know which option I'd have gone for...

The Belfast links are indeed beneficial, but they will be achieved with a simple 40km stretch (like you have on your map) from the M7 to the M1.

The Cork-Waterford link will be catered for with the N25/M25 upgrades, and the Cork-Limerick-Galway will catered for by M18/M20 upgrades.

I understand what you mean by it costing less, and indeed I can see the logic in your method.

But your method would've failed over here unless the other N routes were substantially upgraded. The only thing that stops the style you've adopted from failing completely in the UK is the fact that many A-roads are of dual-carriageway standard, which gives us enough choice.

Compare that to over here. You'd have the motorways that you have put down linked together by (mostly) crappy roads.

I think the system we've adopted (while it is more expensive, I concede), will work better in the long-term as I don't think any of our new motorways are likely to be overcrowded anytime soon. There will be many viable alternative routes, many towns will have access to highly-efficient road link (and NO, I'm not one of those people that thinks EVERY town needs to have a motorway alongside it), and the local people will get their roads back.

When we're done with the motorways, complete the upgrades of the N24, N4 and various other routes to 2+2 or WS2 standard. And then focus on tidying up some of the dangerous R and L routes around the country.

I am aware of the argument that we could've put more money into public transport if we'd delayed some of the projects. Indeed, I wouldn't have minded seeing the M9 and M3 delayed to pay for better bus services in Cork and Waterford, or perhaps Interconnector for Dublin. But the NRA was given its budget by the government, and I think it has spent it in the correct way.

Lennoxschips

Compare that to over here. You'd have the motorways that you have put down linked together by (mostly) crappy roads

I disagree on this point. Most of the old N8 from Port Laoise to Cork is pretty good, save the bits around Abbyleix. If the M8 had been built along a different corridor, the old N8 would have more than sufficed for local traffic for those towns.

The decision to build the M8 so close to the old N8 is a strange one on many levels, as the new M8 goes way to close to many towns, such as Cashel (and the Rock of Cashel), Fermoy, Caher, Mitchelstown and Watergrasshil, to the point where it will cause noise pollution in those towns.

Hoof Hearted

Following close to the original N routes was the lower risk approach. In 1999 for example, it wasn't certain that the funding would be available for the upgrades to the entire N routes.

Tracing close to these N routes allows the benefits of each upgrade scheme to bear fruit as soon as they are completed.

Waiting for a full scheme (going by more direct new routes) to complete would have put the country at a economic risk until the schemes would be complete

Many high tech companies that are here now may not have ever located here if we were waiting for "the optimized scheme" to complete.

Also towns along the existing N routes are well established and these have the potential to be our future cities.

Risks of traffic congestion are much lower with current interurban motorway routing.

Cool Mo D

As well as following the old routes being a better bet for if some schemes ended up being cancelled, it is a lot more politically palatable, as towns being left off the motorway network, especially large towns on a national road, would kick up a stink, and we'd hear the usual shout about rural communities being destroyed; the fat cats in Dublin, etc, etc; which would put the whole motorway programme in jeopardy. So I think the less ambitious plan does have something going for it.

mysterious

BluntGuy wrote: »

As usual mysterious, your sense of misplaced importance and overwhelming arrogance has seen you make yet another embarassing post.



My millions are being wasted on stupid schemes like co-location and the like. I don't regard expenditure on the road network as wastage though.

You see your so focused on thinking that I'm trying to attack your post. Instead will you just realise the fact, That the NRA has wasted billions on building a motorway system, that could of been spent better and planned better. Routes could of been combined and built in much less time and money. We are talking billions, Many people on this thread agree with this fact. You think I'm being arrogant because A. I happen to know or B. know this more than you. If you think thats been arrogant, then thats just tough. I'm not annoyed with you in this regard, I see now that there is no point in getting annoyed with you, that im most certain of now. I'm just really pissed off with the NRA use our taxpayers money like buying candy. Your embarressing because your been so childish and just can't accept reality. Like what the hell is your position on this thread?

Well seeing as though I lived in Britain for about ten years, I think I know what I'm talking about.

For someone who lived in Britain(and knows whats he's talking about) for 10 years makes no relevance to this topic, because

A, you think the NRA plan is succesful, FACT is it isn't. Many agree here. People who are retarded would know that awell.

B you said the NRA plan emulates the successful German-autobahn system, Therefore this proves haven't a bulls notion what the hell your talking about.

Let me debunk this for you.
German Autoban system is laid out in grid format. and combines many interurban motorways together to create multiple journeys for the one route that connect many cities together. This is completely different to the NRAs network, I'm actually embarressed for you, how you could make such a retarded claim.

Our motorways follow a radial system from Dublin out. No multiplexes, no grids, no connection between other cities. The most closely related motorway network, Ireland would correspond too, is France. Even they are trying to re-correct their radial network and follow the successful German grid format.

The only thing you got right was Britain had a trunk motorway system. Maybe you might need another 10 years in Ireland before you get an idea how stupid out network is, and note the fact that it has no relation to a grid system whatsoever. Start by looking at a map, Like I told you already. It's simple.

Oh. Silly me. Giving my opinion on a forum. :rolleyes:

Yes, your opinion was wrong and I corrected it, Now you must gid rid of that opinon. As I've just corrected you yet again.

When did I say that? I said we should try to connect as many towns as possible when building motorways between two points.

No we shouldn't that would be detrimental to the Irish countryside, and makes no economical sense what so ever. If it were, Then Europe and America would have done the same 40 years ago. Motorways are designed to move heavy commericial and inter urban traffic. Not towns like Cashel and Cahir. Please get with reality. The old N8 would be more than sufficient to carry local traffic from towns to Dublin. meanwhile a Motorway further away should of been allocated to carry all the South (Cork + Waterford ) traffic to Dublin.

Not (Cork + billycuddybanjam + Rock of cashel)
Not (Waterford + hairymarytown+ ballyoctupus)

Old N8/N9 meet local needs of those small settlements, if they are near the motorway, bless em.

M8 (combined M9) Meet interurban needs purely.

That is logic, and thats the purpose here. Local meet local needs. National meet national needs.

And what are you suggesting? That everybody who uses the M8 for example is going straight from Dublin to Cork and no-where inbetween?

No that is stupid, I said that the in between on a dedicated M8 would use it, but the old N8 should be much further away from the " proper dedicated" M8. It would be tough luck, that some towns have access or not. It just doesn't work like you keep suggesting that every town and village should have dedicated access to a motorway. It's just fantasy. Motorways are built to connect main urban areas, its luck if say Tipperary gets near the motorway or Cashel does. Look at Germany, France and Uk. All of their motorways are different, but none follow local roads purely to meet the demands of towns like Tipperary or Cashel ffs. You need to start understanding that.

Now I dunno what your problem is. But I've explained myself and I can't be bothered dealing with your stupid responses. I don't know if you're looking for an argument, or just trying to be funny. But whatever it is, it ain't working...

No you just won't learn. Lennoxchips is trying to explain to you aswell, I respect his paitence. Because I have no paitence for your idiotic ignorance of the FACTS. Lennox even drew you a map, to show what many people are trying to tell you, where the NRA are wrong. I honestly don't know what your doing here at all, or trying to point out.

mysterious

Cool Mo D wrote: »

As well as following the old routes being a better bet for if some schemes ended up being cancelled, it is a lot more politically palatable, as towns being left off the motorway network, especially large towns on a national road, would kick up a stink, and we'd hear the usual shout about rural communities being destroyed; the fat cats in Dublin, etc, etc; which would put the whole motorway programme in jeopardy. So I think the less ambitious plan does have something going for it.

I dissagree. Because it was stupid in the first place.


building white elephant motorways beside all old roads. Is Absurd.


If they went and did a proper motorway network
It would be on budget
It would be on time
It would cost less
it would have saved alot more money

Therefore. Time and billions of money saved. for example combining the M8 and M9 would save time and money. The money we've wasted on the white elephant M9 could be put into the metro. or put that 2 billion into keeping villages and towns like ballymygiddyarse happy. Or putting the 2 billion into improving the local roads of ballymygiddyarse and slievabunamon, then everyone is really happy. and our money is spent properly. I.e punping well used cash where its needed.

Why in this country do I see crap, and people praising crap.

But eh..... I'm telling people should stop voting. And take there power back and bring it all back to us.

BluntGuy

Mysterious. I'm done dealing with this...

mysterious wrote: »

Your embarressing because your been so childish and just can't accept reality. Like what the hell is your position on this thread?

Well you figure out what's really embarassing there...

mysterious wrote: »

Yes, your opinion was wrong and I corrected it, Now you must gid rid of that opinon. As I've just corrected you yet again.

Pathetic... :rolleyes:

mysterious wrote: »

No you just won't learn. Lennoxchips is trying to explain to you aswell, I respect his paitence. Because I have no paitence for your idiotic ignorance of the FACTS. Lennox even drew you a map, to show what many people are trying to tell you, where the NRA are wrong. I honestly don't know what your doing here at all, or trying to point out.

Lennoxchips has explained his position to me much better than you have. Indeed, I've even conceded on a number of points. I told him what I thought of his map. If you'd bothered to read the post, maybe you would've picked up on that.

And as for that 'many people'. Well I appreciate the effort that all two of you have made...

I have many beefs with the Irish government, but the road network is not one of them.

Many people have pointed out the advantages of the NRA's system and while you may not agree, it doesn't mean that they're WRONG. The sooner you can get that into your infantile little head the better...

Now that's the end of it. :cool:

Amtmann

An excellent thread (aside from mysterious's rudeness). Lennoxchips, that is a fantastic map, and I'd have loved to have heard all the pros and cons of it versus the NRA's ultimate decision to shadow the old trunk roads debated nationally.

Unfortunately, regarding the amalgamation of the M7/M6 and M8/M9, the point is academic at this stage, because the horse has already bolted.

I am very much in favour of linking the M20 with the M8 at Mitchelstown however. That could still happen; but massive public pressure is needed. With Fianna Fail gombeenism very much a feature of every planning decision made in this country, the M20 is set to shadow the N20.

Now. What can be done? Obviously the bout of public consultation regarding the M20 is ongoing. Objections can and should be made there. We could also write letters to newspapers and to An Bórd Pleanála. If we could also accurately cost the two alternatives -- and show that joining the M8 at Mitchelstown is cheaper and more sensible using hard figures -- then, who knows, in the current financial climate the route selection might actually get more than a bit of a rethink. If someone here is considering setting up an action group, then it should be done NOW, before the first sod is turned. There is no point in crying over spilled milk.

mysterious

BluntGuy wrote: »

Mysterious. I'm done dealing with this...

Good lets get on topic.

And as for that 'many people'. Well I appreciate the effort that all two of you have made...

Thanks.

Many people have pointed out the advantages of the NRA's system and while you may not agree, it doesn't mean that they're WRONG.

Bull... Its a farce network. It was not planned as a proper motorway network. That is not right, you can spend time on trivial nonsense for savng the little villages their blue roads. But it's not right end of.

The sooner you can get that into your infantile little head the better...

Now that's the end of it. :cool:

oh would you behave! less of the name call.

Furet enough of the accusations too, no need for the judgments either. I wasn't been rude.:cool:


BACK ON TOPIC:)

I think the only way going forward, on this issue as of now, with the motorway network. Is to learn from previous mistakes.

Starting with the M20 built north of Mitchellstown. In an time of economic unstability it makes no sense in building a a full blown white elephant motorway beside the existing N20. When there is not enough money in the coffers.


Why is it so hard to see the logic in building an M20 spur at Mitchellstown, half the Cork - Limerick motorway is built already.

Just to add, to anyone who still thinks its logically to go by old roads:rolleyes: The Mitchellstown - Limerick road was in fact the old Cork road

So I'll leave ye to argue which of the ballys of all bally villages gets their blue road:rolleyes:

Amtmann

mysterious wrote: »

Furet enough of the accusations too, no need for the judgments either. I wasn't been rude.:cool:

You were the one who used the word "idiot" first. That was both rude and judgemental. Anyway, I agree with much of what you say. I just feel you could say it more nicely, that's all. Now, yes, back on topic...

BluntGuy

I'm not particularly for or against linking the M20 to the M8 at Mitchelstown...

I will say though, if it was going to be done then they should've started doing it when the M8 Mitchelstown to Fermoy began construction. It's gonna be difficult to tie it in.

However, I don't mind either way. An M20 from Cork to Limerick, or from Mitchelstown to Limerick, as long as there's something better than that hideous N20 available!

mysterious

Furet wrote: »

You were the one who used the word "idiot" first. That was both rude and judgemental. Anyway, I agree with much of what you say. I just feel you could say it more nicely, that's all. Now, yes, back on topic...

You were the one who used the word "idiot" first

I didn't.

Now now Furet, behave, I know you don't want too, second time saying lets stick to topic and grow up!

Second time telling you to becareful making assusations that are not true. You will get yourself banned.

Now please stop it! I've asked you out of respect already.


Bluntguy, Why would you not suggest either, when The M8 corridor has pretty much covered 50% of the distance between Cork and Limerick already, plus it would be half the cost. only 40km spur would be needed, whereas the M20 by the N20 is longer. I fail to see why you dont see the logic for one over the other

Tie in will not be difficult just build a flyover:P