Waterford University discussion

comeraghs

You'd think we were looking for special treatment for Waterford! All we want is equal treatment! Is that too much for FG & their supporter(s) to realise????

Sully

comeraghs wrote: »

You'd think we were looking for special treatment for Waterford! All we want is equal treatment! Is that too much for FG & their supporter(s) to realise????

FG Supporters, at least here in Waterford, want a University in Waterford. When the programme for government was released, concern was expressed by members to the party. I haven't been involved much since then, so I am not sure what the reaction was to the Technology approach for a University. From speaking with members myself, they want to wait and see what exactly the proposal will entail - is it a watering down or will it benefit Waterford.

WIT is a great college, with huge potential and fantastic graduates past and in the pipeline. Its not just because our region is the only one without it - its because WIT deserves to be one.

fuzzy dunlop

http://www.wit.ie/about_wit/at_a_glance/sunday_times_university_guide

I see one of the few negatives about WIT as described in the Sunday Times survey is that the college is across four campus. This only highlights the necessity of a University of the SE almost in its entitety being located in Waterford.At least no more fragmentation.But any right thinking person knows this already. It also shows why the amalgamated VEC's should have been located in the City.

Sully

Does the same report not ranking ITs higher than Universities?

fuzzy dunlop

Sully wrote: »

Does the same report not ranking ITs higher than Universities?

Not according to WIT website

Sully

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Not according to WIT website

Just checked, I was wrong. It was The Times. For the second year running according to the The Times Higher Education World University Rankings, the best University in the world is an Institute of Technology.

AdMMM

I haven't read the report but I'm assuming it's MIT. They're a different kettle of fish altogether and the American system allows them to be free to do whatever they want, unlike IoT's here which have to follow strict guidelines. I really hope you're not trying to imply that because they're an IT that it's not all bad for Waterford because I can assure you that the structures of the two can't be compared at all!

Sully

Just adding to the discussion Adam. I cant find the report, just was mentioned a week or so ago.

Sully

Spotted on Facebook that Phil Hogan has a newsletter out. Was looking for info on mergers but spotted this;

Official approval for a Technical University for the
South East is fast reaching the final stage. Carlow
and Waterford ITs have been working together
over the last number of months to advance the
South East University proposal as outlined in the
Programme for Government. Progress has been
made on the merging of both institutions into a
single entity for the South East. On the completion
of this process, formal approval will be sought for
a Technical University of the South East which will
include a Campus for Kilkenny city.

Source: http://www.philhogan.ie/uploads/Phil_Hogan_Newsletter_-_Oct12_web.pdf

Kilkenny has a campus already for NUI Maynooth IIRC.

ec18

The joys of irish politics, a university spread over 3 locations none of which are particularly close to each other

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

Spotted on Facebook that Phil Hogan has a newsletter out. Was looking for info on mergers but spotted this;



Source: http://www.philhogan.ie/uploads/Phil_Hogan_Newsletter_-_Oct12_web.pdf

Kilkenny has a campus already for NUI Maynooth IIRC.

So basically the same thing that happened when Waterford was upgraded to an IT everyone got. Waterford looks set to get university status so everyone is going to have a slice if the pie.

I genuinely think Waterford should be a university at this stage. Other than nui may booth having a campus in Kilkenny what other universities are spread across multiple counties. And what do you call it then evidently if its spread across Carlow Waterford and Kilkenny its bit going to be called university college Waterford which is what it should be. Carlow is so close to dublin and its 4 universities why does it need to have part of waterfords university.

Sully

7upfree wrote: »

So basically the same thing that happened when Waterford was upgraded to an IT everyone got. Waterford looks set to get university status so everyone is going to have a slice if the pie.

I genuinely think Waterford should be a university at this stage. Other than nui may booth having a campus in Kilkenny what other universities are spread across multiple counties. And what do you call it then evidently if its spread across Carlow Waterford and Kilkenny its bit going to be called university college Waterford which is what it should be. Carlow is so close to dublin and its 4 universities why does it need to have part of waterfords university.

It is being given University Status? Also, its WIT that asked to merge with Carlow. I'd personally see it as 'stroke politics' Kilkenny getting a campus tbh.

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

It is being given University Status? Also, its WIT that asked to merge with Carlow. I'd personally see it as 'stroke politics' Kilkenny getting a campus tbh.

That's fair enough if it was WIT who looked for it as I suppose technically it does fall into the southeast

As you said though a campus in Kilkenny is complete stroke politics. Especially seen as Waterford and Carlow already have the facilities necessary. A whole new campus would have to be built in Kilkenny. I don't see the rationale behind a campus based in Kilkenny.

Sully

7upfree wrote: »

That's fair enough if it was WIT who looked for it as I suppose technically it does fall into the southeast

As you said though a campus in Kilkenny is complete stroke politics. Especially seen as Waterford and Carlow already have the facilities necessary. A whole new campus would have to be built in Kilkenny. I don't see the rationale behind a campus based in Kilkenny.

Maybe they intend to use the existing facility in Kilkenny?

mike65

Don't worry Big Phil will have this combined "university" centered in Kilkenny if he can swing it.

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

Maybe they intend to use the existing facility in Kilkenny?

What existing facilities?

Ziphius

7upfree wrote: »

What existing facilities?

Perhaps the "Innovation Centre" in St Kieron's College in Kilkenny City jointly opened by WIT and ITC earlier this year.

http://www2.wit.ie/news/details/research/taoiseach_opens_kilkenny_research_centre

7upfree

Ziphius wrote: »

Perhaps the "Innovation Centre" in St Kieron's College in Kilkenny City jointly opened by WIT and ITC earlier this year.

http://www2.wit.ie/news/details/research/taoiseach_opens_kilkenny_research_centre

You mean Kilkenny town?:p

Sully

What about the 'campus' that is already in Kilkenny for NUIG?

GrandBlaa

And that is a particularly impressive campus, NUI Maynooth-Kilkenny.

They have Level 6, 7 and 8 courses that you cannot do in Waterford - mostly in the humanities / arts vein. Plus I know that they're working on some Masters programs too, to début next year.

Dunmoreroader

Well thats it settled then, look out for the govt. press release " Minister Hogan is delighted to announce the creation of UoK(University of Kilkenny) HQ'd in Kilkenny City overseeing the former WIT now renamed University of Kilkenny - Blaa Campus and CIT renamed UoK - Dolmen Campus.
Fitzgibbon Cup strip to change to black & amber"
Stranger things have happened!:D

comeraghs

Has that happened yet?

Dunmoreroader

Jeez I'd forgotten that post! Could still happen; http://www.wit.ie/news/details/all_news/south_east_technological_university_moves_closer_to_becoming_a_reality
Ironic that DIT are trying to consolidate their constituent colleges onto one campus in Grangegorman to further their University credentials whilst spreading it about is the strategy for the Southeast.
So when the torturously slow progress to University status finally delivers, just before the next general election, Big Phil or Ruairi Quinn(if they're still in cabinet) will announce to great fanfare a stand alone multi-million euro budget for the Waterford/Carlow combine which will be immediately allocated to building new campuses in Kilkenny & Wexford with just enough left over to change the signs in Waterford and Carlow.

Sully

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Jeez I'd forgotten that post! Could still happen; http://www.wit.ie/news/details/all_news/south_east_technological_university_moves_closer_to_becoming_a_reality
Ironic that DIT are trying to consolidate their constituent colleges onto one campus in Grangegorman to further their University credentials whilst spreading it about is the strategy for the Southeast.
So when the torturously slow progress to University status finally delivers, just before the next general election, Big Phil or Ruairi Quinn(if they're still in cabinet) will announce to great fanfare a stand alone multi-million euro budget for the Waterford/Carlow combine which will be immediately allocated to building new campuses in Kilkenny & Wexford with just enough left over to change the signs in Waterford and Carlow.

When was that article posted? We can't knock Quinn on this one, or the government. The problem has always been with the two colleges. I was told recently there still in talks about the old Waterford Crystal site, part of it at least?

bilibob

The Waterford Crystal site would be ideal. It is adjacent to the existing facilities and far closer to the city centre than the campus in Carriganore. It is beside a frequent bus route and convenient for those walking and cycling.

If the WIT had known back at the time that Waterford crystal were going to be closing the factory, I'm sure they would have bought some of the land instead of the crazy prices they spent in Carriganore- Miles upon miles outside the city.

wellboytoo

A bit of a peeing competition going on between WIT and CIT heads at the moment which is unfortunate to say the least if predictable.
Carlow was always years behind Waterford to scale the very high bar set by the full time mandarins in the department and other parties interested in stopping WIT achieving Uni status.
They knew from the get go this forced marriage could not happen in the timescale of this government and would probably implode with local parochial infighting.
We need to pressurise the local TDs and government to keep the bar high but allow WIT achieve Uni status and allow CIT merge when it is ready otherwise the whole thing will collapse with blame being pointed at WIT and CIT and will never be heard of for another 30 years.

fricatus

wellboytoo wrote: »

A bit of a peeing competition going on between WIT and CIT heads at the moment which is unfortunate to say the least if predictable.
Carlow was always years behind Waterford to scale the very high bar set by the full time mandarins in the department and other parties interested in stopping WIT achieving Uni status.
They knew from the get go this forced marriage could not happen in the timescale of this government and would probably implode with local parochial infighting.
We need to pressurise the local TDs and government to keep the bar high but allow WIT achieve Uni status and allow CIT merge when it is ready otherwise the whole thing will collapse with blame being pointed at WIT and CIT and will never be heard of for another 30 years.

I think the idea of merging with a weaker institution is a load of nonsense anyway. If WIT is almost at the level it needs to be at, why should it merge with an institution that is behind it on most of the criteria that are being applied? The resulting merged institution would end up being further back along the path to university status compared where WIT is now.

I can't think of a single argument for a multi-campus university, other than the political one of all the ministers wanting a bit in their own constituencies. It's a model that I understand has been shown to perform less well relative to single campus institutions worldwide. In Waterford's case, it can only lead to departments and functions being stripped out and moved to other locations.

The goalposts are being moved around all the time for this university bid, and this is just one more example of a move to frustrate Waterford's ambitions of having a university. The political climate has always been bad, but right now it's dangerous because it has the potential to weaken the institution.

I believe WIT should get on with the business of being the best IT it can and forget about university ambitions until the political climate is more favourable.

Max Powers

fricatus wrote: »

I think the idea of merging with a weaker institution is a load of nonsense anyway. If WIT is almost at the level it needs to be at, why should it merge with an institution that is behind it on most of the criteria that are being applied? The resulting merged institution would end up being further back along the path to university status compared where WIT is now.

I can't think of a single argument for a multi-campus university, other than the political one of all the ministers wanting a bit in their own constituencies. It's a model that I understand has been shown to perform less well relative to single campus institutions worldwide. In Waterford's case, it can only lead to departments and functions being stripped out and moved to other locations.

The goalposts are being moved around all the time for this university bid, and this is just one more example of a move to frustrate Waterford's ambitions of having a university. The political climate has always been bad, but right now it's dangerous because it has the potential to weaken the institution.

I believe WIT should get on with the business of being the best IT it can and forget about university ambitions until the political climate is more favourable.

Yeah i can understand thinking WIT should go it alone. Statement on WLR from CIT saying they expect the new Tech Uni to NOT be HQ'd anywhere and resources split. It certainly looks like CIT being the junior partner and looking for more than its fair share could kill this project. Although WIT is near Uni level, are they near the criteria set down, my guess is fair bit to go yet in terms of population, level of lecturers etc. It probably still needs good bit more investment. Somebody probably needs to mediate between both, there is only one place where this should be HQ'd, I fear this is a mess, then again, how are Cork and kerry getting on with it so not all is lost yet. Might hear something completely different next week, all back on track etc etc. hopefully without diluting the HQ of the new Uni.

Deise67

fricatus wrote: »

I think the idea of merging with a weaker institution is a load of nonsense anyway. If WIT is almost at the level it needs to be at, why should it merge with an institution that is behind it on most of the criteria that are being applied? The resulting merged institution would end up being further back along the path to university status compared where WIT is now.

I can't think of a single argument for a multi-campus university, other than the political one of all the ministers wanting a bit in their own constituencies. It's a model that I understand has been shown to perform less well relative to single campus institutions worldwide. In Waterford's case, it can only lead to departments and functions being stripped out and moved to other locations.

The goalposts are being moved around all the time for this university bid, and this is just one more example of a move to frustrate Waterford's ambitions of having a university. The political climate has always been bad, but right now it's dangerous because it has the potential to weaken the institution.

I believe WIT should get on with the business of being the best IT it can and forget about university ambitions until the political climate is more favourable.

agree 100% we have struggled along without a university for so long , why be sold a pup on behalf of Hogan & Co, FG will be back in the wilderness where they belong after next election, only problem is who do you vote for ??? not a big SF fan and certainly won't be voting FF !

fiachr_a

Waterford shouldn't want a university. The ones in Ireland are mostly crap and are rapidly falling down the world rankings due to dumbing down of courses and lack of funding. Do we really need a town full of people with useless arts degrees? What can be done so? Which cities does Waterford twin with? Rochester for one in the States. They have a fine university higher up the rankings than any college in this country. Why not send someone from Waterford over there to try and persuade them to open a branch/campus of their college in Waterford City?