Blind Fire

kevteljeur

bullets wrote: »

Ah cool. I forgot also that some people only use the glasses and not full face masks.
Havent got hit by a BB ever, but I can imagine a BB to the tooth for example may send a nice
sharp twang down a nerve ending.

~B

As I've said before, I think you can only make rules to protect people up to a point; banning blind-fire and deliberate close-range headshots are one thing, but beyond that we all know the way this game works, and people should accept that the game comes with some mild physical risks like any sport which we take on by entering the field, and wear appropriate protection if it truly bothers them.

On that note, it would be worth considering making full-face protection mandatory for under-16s. I realise that this will cause some controversy, but it's just an opinion.

Masada

bullets wrote: »

There was some mentions of blind firing is dangerous.
Can people give examples? So people would know exactly
why it should not be done.

There was this one time when i was marshalling in HRTA and there was one group of attackers pushing up through the lane in a rolling assault game. the last defender was behind a 3ft tall wooden barrier at the time. then one of the enemy team came up to the oposite side of the barrier, and rather than try to go round it and kill the guy, he stuck his M4 over the top (while he was still crouched down mind you) and opened up on the guy that was literally beside him, he was so close that its likely the the other gut would have got a smack of the barrel and all. but anyway, the defender guy had his face cut in 3 little spots from the impacts and the attacker was told to go to the safezone.,

We all know its not gonna kill you but it is dangerous in that it can cut and bruise you from that close.,:)

Fallschirmjager

blind firing example.

i hide behind a structure,lets assume its waist high, i hear the ping ping ping of someone firing at me, they know where i am but i dare not duck out as i will get hit.

now the correct thing to do is get supporting fire from your teammates to either move forward or back or sideways

the incorrect thing to do is rest the aeg on top on the structure and blast away in a rough direction where the fire is coming from. Why? well if you cant see where you are shooting you have no idea have the opposing force decided to attack your position. Now this is where if you cant see where you are firing, in a dramatic example, someones face could be 3 inches from the tip of where you decide to fire your aeg on full auto resting on top or at the side of the structure..so imagine an aeg on full auto in someones face...the only way to stop that is to fire at what you can see. if you cant see where to fire there is 2 reasons....1) your team is not supporting the positional change 2) you are pinned down and need support

incidentally, this is why we have a bang kill, to stop firing at close range.

if you blind fire around corners, throw a grenade around a blind corner, you run the risk of smacking someone in the face.

also...you can fire from the hip, from the shoulder, hell you can go into a yoga position and fire with your feet...BUT ONLY IF YOU CAN SEE where your bb's are going...its that simple...if you cant see, you cant fire.

what vtec is saying is you have sights for a reason and thats to aim. one well fired aimed bb is way way better then 100 from the hip as you 'walk' the bb's into the region you want to hit. full auto is for supression fire. personally i love hearing someone on full auto i am firing at....its the faint sniff of panic...and a simple waiting game before you hear that beautiful change in tone from their aeg telling me they are out....doesnt matter if its a box mag or a hicap....sooner of later full auto firing ends up the same way..empty....its just a waiting game...and if you are doing the fire and Maneuver concept...the opposing force is a sitting duck...

bullets

I read someplace for CQB nades are rolled into a room along the ground from an open door.
How would one go about lobbing an airsoft Grenade in a window is it something thats done
at all? I am guessing it would fall into the blind fire rules too.

~B

Masada

grenades are usually fine aslong as their used with common sense.., they also dont have nearly as much power so they dont hurt even uf your holding it as it goes off.,

Hivemind187

Classic example.

I was marshalling at HRTA one weekend (ages ago now) and there was a newbie who was a little on the reckless side. He leaned his arms and rifle over the edge of the portacabin in the centre field and opened up full auto.

He sprayed me in the goggles.

Had I been one of the countless idiots I have seen ignoring the direction of the marshal not to remove their eye wear (because "they were in the cabin and didnt think they could be shot in there!") then it could have been a lot worse than a bollocking and a respawn.

In hindsight I should have chucked him.

iceage

I'm sure I've seen a vid somewhere on the net, an indoor site somewhere, this twazuck, steps around a corner and lets fly with nade launcher into a guys face, literally inches a way.....he just stood there in complete shock, as your man dissapears back around the corner....I was amazed he didn't knock him on his arse. Thankfully they were all wearing fullface masks. I know its not blind firing but jesus! some people.:(

Fallschirmjager

wow...hive....just damn....



oh and bullets, an underarm swing is normally how you lob grenades, so its slow. like vtec says the power of the nade is not really the issue (although should not be underestimated with some of the newer ones) its the weight of the item, so a low slow underarm swing is the way to go...coupled with most people dont see it that way and provides a nice suprise!!! well for the thrower at least...LOL

kevteljeur

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Classic example.

I was marshalling at HRTA one weekend (ages ago now) and there was a newbie who was a little on the reckless side. He leaned his arms and rifle over the edge of the portacabin in the centre field and opened up full auto.

He sprayed me in the goggles.

Had I been one of the countless idiots I have seen ignoring the direction of the marshal not to remove their eye wear (because "they were in the cabin and didnt think they could be shot in there!") then it could have been a lot worse than a bollocking and a respawn.

In hindsight I should have chucked him.

A shame that you didn't, because then you could have been the Chuck Norris of airsoft.

Doomofman

kevteljeur wrote: »

A shame that you didn't, because then you could have been the Chuck Norris of airsoft.

Oh dear....

I bet chuck norris doesn't blind fire.

gandalf

Doomofman wrote: »

Oh dear....

I bet chuck norris doesn't blind fire.

Chuck Norris doesn't need an AEG he spits bb's at ya !!

Stercus Accidit

gandalf wrote: »

Chuck Norris doesn't need an AEG he spits bb's at ya !!

Chuck Norris doesn't wear eye protection, bb's wear Chuck Norris protection.

Tigger

kevteljeur wrote: »

As I've said before, I think you can only make rules to protect people up to a point; banning blind-fire and deliberate close-range headshots are one thing, but beyond that we all know the way this game works, and people should accept that the game comes with some mild physical risks like any sport which we take on by entering the field, and wear appropriate protection if it truly bothers them.

On that note, it would be worth considering making full-face protection mandatory for under-16s. I realise that this will cause some controversy, but it's just an opinion.

i agree but for under 18's

chipped teeth and parents with an under 18 would suck
#

Tigger

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

full auto is for supression fire.

yes yes it is

personally i love hearing someone on full auto i am firing at....its the faint sniff of panic...

i disagree

and a simple waiting game before you hear that beautiful change in tone from their aeg telling me they are out....doesnt matter if its a box mag or a hicap....sooner of later full auto firing ends up the same way..empty....its just a waiting game...and if you are doing the fire and Maneuver concept...the opposing force is a sitting duck...

unless they have tw0 support guns one for each hand

TheDoc

iceage wrote: »

I'm sure I've seen a vid somewhere on the net, an indoor site somewhere, this twazuck, steps around a corner and lets fly with nade launcher into a guys face, literally inches a way.....he just stood there in complete shock, as your man dissapears back around the corner....I was amazed he didn't knock him on his arse. Thankfully they were all wearing fullface masks. I know its not blind firing but jesus! some people.:(

iceage this is a perfect example of how "bang kills" are confusing everyone

there is nothing wrong with that scenario, might sound harsh, but its perfectly fine.

203 nade go in a shower, so its gna hit most of your body at close range. If someone goes mad at me for hitting them with a 203 ( especially in a cqb designated site or game where bang kills are non existent) I'd tell them where the next 203 is going, and to go take up tiddly winks.

Its a game to be hit, we are going to feel pain, its what happens. Blind firing is more frowned upon as it can be indiscriminate firing.... as someone who doesnt do bang kills ( most of the tim) i take the extra time to aim at a targets chest rig, magazines, or a coverede part to "ease" the pain of impact, but i wouldnt be happy with blind firers not taking that same time to pick a spot on the target.

Stercus Accidit

I've been hit with those bb shower grenades and didn't even realise it, they are sh1te all powerful.

Fallschirmjager

Tigger wrote: »

Quote:
personally i love hearing someone on full auto i am firing at....its the faint sniff of panic...
i disagree

Quote:
and a simple waiting game before you hear that beautiful change in tone from their aeg telling me they are out....doesnt matter if its a box mag or a hicap....sooner of later full auto firing ends up the same way..empty....its just a waiting game...and if you are doing the fire and Maneuver concept...the opposing force is a sitting duck...
unless they have tw0 support guns one for each hand

er, okay...you disagree that 'personally i love hearing something'. okay i will try not to love that in future, just for you....


i dont actually own 2 support aegs but i would like to. I am not sure why you think someone firing on full auto wont use more bb's then me using semi auto in a skirmish?
fire and maneuver is used by pretty much every army in one shape or another the world over, if its good enough for them, its good enough for me in airsoft. your experience may differ..

kevteljeur

I've disagreed with some of you on this in the past, but grenades are a relatively new but growing category of device in airsoft which by nature are 'blind-fire' and should have some guidelines if not rules drawn up, just for safety, which maybe site-owners might agree to. For example, lobbing a quarter kilo of plastic and metal over a 2 metre wall could cause an injury. It would be good practice to call 'grenade!' and roll it in. It might not have the surprise effect, but as I said before, if I got a smack from one then I'd put it in the same category as allowing blind stone-throwing during skirmishes. I'd be rightly pissed off about that.

OzCam

I'd love to throw grenades through windows, but since Airsoft is supposed to be a game and the object of it is to play without causing significant injury, I agree that we really should have some rules about grenades.*

One of those Zoxnas hitting you on the head could really spoil your day.

Underarm throws are the rule in Softball so I don't see a major problem with them in Airsoft. And no matter how many people on the board dislike the idea, the shooter/thrower is liable for the results of their actions.


* thrown grenades, as distinct from M203s.

Tigger

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

er, okay...you disagree that 'personally i love hearing something'. okay i will try not to love that in future, just for you....

i ment the panic bit but its all good :cool:

i dont actually own 2 support aegs but i would like to. I am not sure why you think someone firing on full auto wont use more bb's then me using semi auto in a skirmish?

i usec a lot of bbs in a game its nearly all suppressive fire
i leave support guns lying aroung in my fall back positions but thats all my style of play

fire and maneuver is used by pretty much every army in one shape or another the world over, if its good enough for them, its good enough for me in airsoft. your experience may differ..

if i'm playing assault then yes

but if i'm protecting an objective or providing cover so my rifles can move no

and fire and move works well
but modern infantry paint targets for airstrikes and collect intel

i'm really just making the point thats there is good full auto support as well as noob sprayand pray while walking the hosing in

iceage

I gotta find that clip Doc,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkNawiuwTGU

Not making a biggy about it, its never happened to me, am I just being a pussy about this? thankfully as I said the guy was wearing a full face mask. maybe he just reacted as he came around the corner, its a hard one to call. Have to admit at first i giggled, then went, aahhh here......

Busta Hyman

that was fairly harsh but this is a sport where we aim to shoot one another so i feel that there are certain times this may happen. i tell you now that in the heat of a skirmish if someone startles me running round a corner i MAY pull the trigger but lets be honest were big boys i agree that point blank to the face IS unacceptable ..... jesus point blank to the ass hurts like hell but i do expect to get some stinging shots. just part of the game

hrta

I forgot to add in my last post, the idea for the blind fire rule came from ppl that had shot ppl not wearing the eye wear because they could not see them, and any one that has played will have seen this on sites were ppl taken off there eye wear,and that person could be a bystanders and marshals that you cant see, this rule is at every site around the world, and there at it a lot longer than us.

Busta Hyman

hrta wrote: »

I forgot to add in my last post, the idea for the blind fire rule came from ppl that had shot ppl not wearing the eye wear because they could not see them, and any one that has played will have seen this on sites were ppl taken off there eye wear,and that person could be a bystanders and marshals that you cant see, this rule is at every site around the world, and there at it a lot longer than us.

i agree with the blind fire rule but cqb bang rule not so much . yes it hurts to be shot at point blank but isnt that the name of the game just dont aim for the face

andy_g

kevteljeur wrote: »

I've disagreed with some of you on this in the past, but grenades are a relatively new but growing category of device in airsoft which by nature are 'blind-fire' and should have some guidelines if not rules drawn up, just for safety, which maybe site-owners might agree to. For example, lobbing a quarter kilo of plastic and metal over a 2 metre wall could cause an injury. It would be good practice to call 'grenade!' and roll it in. It might not have the surprise effect, but as I said before, if I got a smack from one then I'd put it in the same category as allowing blind stone-throwing during skirmishes. I'd be rightly pissed off about that.

i have to sorta agree thats why call grenade and chuck it threw the window not what i have pulled guys up about lobbing a claymore over the top of killhouses and calling grenade. come on lads!!!! severe health risk to players inside. oh and another thing a claymore is a claymore not a grenade.

iceage

Very good point on the grenade "call" also its for your own team as well, don't want to inadvertedly wipe out your own team in a blue on blue thats why its used primarily. and yep, a claymores a claymore.:) As to the lob, throw, roll of the thing let the sites decide how they are to be deployed, then its a rule, end of.