Article in Irish Examiner

xFROSTY Gx

Taken from the Irish Examiner 12-9-08

"Warning over replica guns craze among Limerick youths

A DANGEROUS new craze has hit the streets of Limerick: children as young as 13 are brandishing replicas of powerful weapons.

Armed detectives have been forced to seize the menacing-looking imitation guns and increase patrols. The guns fire a metallic pellet, which makes them illegal under the Firearms Act.

The fad is growing in various parts of the city. In the past week, six incidents have been reported from estates where residents have been frightened by the sight of young boys with guns. Following a report in Moyross, members of the Emergency Response Unit found a boy aged 16 with a replica Kalashnikov assault rifle.

He was arrested after a passerby saw him with the gun in a firing position, near a street, in broad daylight. Insp John O’Reilly said: “It looked the real McCoy.”

Gardaí made another arrest after a boy was seen firing one of the replica guns from a car in the Garryowen area.

Insp O’Reilly warned: “If a person sees one of these young people and perceives and believes the gun is real and reports it to us, it could result in a serious prosecution. We would ask parents to be aware that carrying these weapons in a public place is a serious matter.”

Some of the pellet guns have been sent to the ballistics section at Garda headquarters for forensic examination.

It is expected a number of those arrested will be brought before the Children’s Court. "

More bad press somewhat related to airsoft:mad:

Witcher

xFROSTY Gx wrote: »

Taken from the Irish Examiner 12-9-08

"Warning over replica guns craze among Limerick youths

A DANGEROUS new craze has hit the streets of Limerick: children as young as 13 are brandishing replicas of powerful weapons.

Armed detectives have been forced to seize the menacing-looking imitation guns and increase patrols. The guns fire a metallic pellet, which makes them illegal under the Firearms Act.

The fad is growing in various parts of the city. In the past week, six incidents have been reported from estates where residents have been frightened by the sight of young boys with guns. Following a report in Moyross, members of the Emergency Response Unit found a boy aged 16 with a replica Kalashnikov assault rifle.

He was arrested after a passerby saw him with the gun in a firing position, near a street, in broad daylight. Insp John O’Reilly said: “It looked the real McCoy.”

Gardaí made another arrest after a boy was seen firing one of the replica guns from a car in the Garryowen area.

Insp O’Reilly warned: “If a person sees one of these young people and perceives and believes the gun is real and reports it to us, it could result in a serious prosecution. We would ask parents to be aware that carrying these weapons in a public place is a serious matter.”

Some of the pellet guns have been sent to the ballistics section at Garda headquarters for forensic examination.

It is expected a number of those arrested will be brought before the Children’s Court. "

More bad press somewhat related to airsoft:mad:

That line pretty much distances airsoft from this article

Puding

as an airsoft i do not want to see this kind of activity and we should support any work by garda to crack down on this irresponsible behavior, i only hope that they do follow up on any reports like this and do take it to its natural conclusion in this case the children s court,

Stone.cold

Puding wrote: »

as an airsoft i do not want to see this kind of activity and we should support any work by garda to crack down on this irresponsible behavior, i only hope that they do follow up on any reports like this and do take it to its natural conclusion in this case the children s court,

Anyone that points a gun, Airsoft or otherwise at a member of the public should be prosecuted

Shiva

Stone.cold wrote: »

Anyone that points a gun, Airsoft or otherwise at a member of the public should be prosecuted

Seconded. Its no good us policing our own ranks if the nimrods who abuse replicas, whether they're legally defined as firearms or not, go unpunished. I hope they throw the book at the little scrotes.

Chuck the Buck

Ah yes Limerick youths. You would have to wonder what the mammys and daddys are at to let little johnny run about in public... oh wait... Limerick youths.... Nuff said! :pac:


In all seriousness you would have to wonder why their parents are letting them do that. But like everything else it'll be 'think of the children' and 'ban airsoft'! If the little f3ckers parents took care of their children and didn't let them act like that there would be as many problems. If your dog attacks someone YOU get into trouble, it should be the same with children and non of the 'but how can I do anything to stop them'. Hmmm.... ground them, take them off them and dump them, beat the sh1t3 out of them for acting like that.


But anyways rant over....

iceage

Guys, these "scrotes" can, and do live everywhere, stop knocking Limerick, this takes place everywhere. I live in a town in Tipp, it happens here! so can we stop the specific knocking please.(Not Modding), I just like Limerick, I have family and friends there:(.

Ah yes Limerick youths. You would have to wonder what the mammys and daddys are at to let little johnny run about in public... oh wait... Limerick youths.... Nuff said!

ED E

Hope they get all the comeuppons they deserve. Little scangers:mad:

CrazyRabbit

Hmm, a news article with the correct facts and no sensationalism. My my, what's happening to the world.

Tigger

i love the wording

replicas of powerful waepons

they reckon they are pellet guns i reckon they were airsoft guns but its as i expected

scummbags take the fun out of everything

Chuck the Buck

It does happen everywhere!

I was walking behind some 'youth' (i.e. junior scumbag) in sligo a week or two ago and the tool was shooting at peoples backs as he walked behind them. He and his missing link buddies thought it was hilarious. I almost took it off him and battered him with it. earlier that day I was wondering why the area in front of the shopping centre was covered in those yellow bb's.

But the worst part was that on the other side of the road were two gardai, just standing there looking at him! They didn't even bother to come over and say something to him, take it off him or anything! Great work lads, get a doughnut as a reward!

Its funny when I think about it - when I was growing up if I did anything wrong I got battered but when I compare myself to others my age and younger who were let off with an 'awh bold boy johnny, but mammy loves ya' many of them have been arrested/have criminal records for lots of stupid stuff like fighting, hitting cops and the like.

The parents of theses tools need a good kicking and their social welfare taken off them till they get their act together instead of the bleeding hearths making excuses for them!

iceage

Here endith the rant?? .......maybe.

Fyr.Fytr

iditos, not only do they run the risk of prosecution, but also the risk of death. As we all know replica weapons look almost identical to the real deal, in a 1 on 1 situation where one of these is pointed at an armed guard, ive no doubt the guard would shoot as for all he/she knows its real and has the potential to kill them or others

Cuddlesworth

xFROSTY Gx wrote: »

Insp O’Reilly warned: “If a person sees one of these young people and perceives and believes the gun is real and reports it to us, it could result in a serious prosecution. We would ask parents to be aware that carrying these weapons in a public place is a serious matter.”

At least somebody knows what he is talking about.

patnor1011

you can get em in shop so it has to be perfectly legal to own them.... I am not talking about aiming or firing them on people or animals but if you can get them in shop - who is risking prosecution? I have one too, you can get some not so powerful in toymasters and they are able to fire metalic pellets too....
There is some restriction if i remember about 400 feets per second. Anything under that suppose to be just toy....

Sod'o swords

patnor1011 wrote: »

you can get em in shop so it has to be perfectly legal to own them.... I am not talking about aiming or firing them on people or animals but if you can get them in shop - who is risking prosecution? I have one too, you can get some not so powerful in toymasters and they are able to fire metalic pellets too....
There is some restriction if i remember about 400 feets per second. Anything under that suppose to be just toy....

The next few posts will not be pretty.....

amaughan

Sod'o swords wrote: »

The next few posts will not be pretty.....

hahaha yeah here it comes haha. dude the legal limit is 328 with a .2g bb.it is legal to have one but not to walk around in public with it in plain view eg in your hand or holster that is illegal as far as i know

Turncoat

patnor1011 wrote: »

you can get em in shop so it has to be perfectly legal to own them.... I am not talking about aiming or firing them on people or animals but if you can get them in shop - who is risking prosecution? I have one too, you can get some not so powerful in toymasters and they are able to fire metalic pellets too....
There is some restriction if i remember about 400 feets per second. Anything under that suppose to be just toy....

If you have one that fires metal pellets then you should also have permission from the Gardai to own one, it would have to be ridiculously overpowered and not available in toy shops. The limit is 328 feet per second. I used to play airsoft in Riyadh and it was banned after the 9/11 incident as you cannot tell the difference from a real firearm and the police over there considered it a serious security issue. I don't want to see the same thing happening in this country even before I've been to a skirmish site.

SniperSight

amaughan wrote: »

that is illegal as far as i know

And Stupid. And Reckless. And Dangerous..etc.etc.etc.

o1s1n

patnor1011 wrote: »

you can get em in shop so it has to be perfectly legal to own them....

If they are under 1 joule of power, yes they are. Nobody is debating that.

patnor1011 wrote: »

I am not talking about aiming or firing them on people or animals but if you can get them in shop - who is risking prosecution?

Nobody if they are under the 1 joule power limit and are using them out of public view on private land.

patnor1011 wrote: »

I have one too, you can get some not so powerful in toymasters and they are able to fire metalic pellets too....

If they can fire metal ammunition they are not under the 1 joule power limit. Theerefore require a license. Certainly can't purchase anything like that in toymaster.

patnor1011 wrote: »

There is some restriction if i remember about 400 feets per second. Anything under that suppose to be just toy....

It's 328fps with a .20g bb.

Now, if you can, please remember what I just said and don't pass around any false information. It's the last thing we need right now.

OzCam

If anyone points a replica firearm at me outside of an airsoft site, I will insist that he is prosecuted for assault to the fullest extent possible under law. Even if I have to pay for it myself.

weeder

Blay wrote: »

That line pretty much distances airsoft from this article

also the fact that mentions its an illegal firearm

even still there are a number of ways people could percieve this and its not really fair on johnny who could be looking to get a legal device for skirmishing and his parents stopping him because they think they are highly illegal and johnny only wants it to cause trouble as the sport of airsoft is unknown to these people

Stone.cold wrote: »

Anyone that points a gun, Airsoft or otherwise at a member of the public should be prosecuted

too right,as should anyone brandishing it in public.

iceage

prosecuted. Then have the offending item inserted in a certain orifice!

Real Steyr Dave

iceage wrote: »

Guys, these "scrotes" can, and do live everywhere, stop knocking Limerick, this takes place everywhere. I live in a town in Tipp, it happens here! so can we stop the specific knocking please.(Not Modding), I just like Limerick, I have family and friends there:(.

Ah yes Limerick youths. You would have to wonder what the mammys and daddys are at to let little johnny run about in public... oh wait... Limerick youths.... Nuff said!

We got those kinda fools in Cork too man, it's a national infestation.:rolleyes:

And having read that article the day it came out they were breaking the law pure and simple as people believed they were firearms.
Anyway, as mentioned above Airsoft wasn't actually mentioned so I think it's case closed from where i'm standing. Hopefully large legal tomes will be thrown at any fool waving a replica around trying to be the big man.

Oh, and I'm 100% with Iceage's "rehabilitation" method! :P

bullets

Pellet Guns or BB guns that fire Metal BB's are a
different smaller sized calibre that an Airsoft Gun.

Pellet Guns or BB guns fire a 4.5mm Metal Pellet.
Airsoft Guns typically fire a 6mm or 8mm plastic BB's.

BB/Pellet Guns are incompatible with airsoft Guns.

Also I would like to Note for the record. That people
here in the airsoft boards always seem to jump all over
threads saying Airsoft devices "cant" or "dont" use Metal
Pellets/BB's but this is simply not true.

Its unlikely that someone would be using metal BB's
for an airsoft gun but you can buy metal BB's in .2g weight. (sorry guys its a pet peev of mine)

~B

o1s1n

bullets wrote: »

but you can buy metal BB's in .2g weight. (sorry guys its a pet peev of mine)

~B

Where? Link?

Think about what you just said there. It's not possible.

An airsoft bb can weigh .2g at 6mm because it's plastic. You can't get a metal (or even metal coated) to weigh the exact same at 6mm as it's a heavier substance. Therefore the bb is heavier.



Heavier bb + 1 joule limitation means our airsoft gear and any airsoft gear complying with the law can't fire 'da mehal pellahs'. You need something a lot more powerful.

\edit - I've been reading around and I don't even think those .43g bbs are metal coated. They're more than likely graphite or teflon. Metal 6mm bbs seem to be around .8g in weight.

ED E

o1s1n wrote: »

Where? Link?

Think about what you just said there. It's not possible.

An airsoft bb can weigh .2g at 6mm because it's plastic. You can't get a metal (or even metal coated) to weigh the exact same at 6mm as it's a heavier substance. Therefore the bb is heavier.



Heavier bb + 1 joule limitation means our airsoft gear and any airsoft gear complying with the law can't fire 'da mehal pellahs'. You need something a lot more powerful.

Random thought, hollow aluminium? At a guestimate it might be possible to get that in like .3, which is very useable...lets see....

*runs to google..

ED E

Ahd what do you know:
http://www.amazon.com/6mm-Aluminum-BBs-Airsoft-500/dp/B0000E2ZR6
".3 gram 6mm Aluminum BBs 500 count bottle. Will work with any airsoft gun that shoots 6mm bbs"



De Metalz pellehs are here to stay!

o1s1n

They're not .2g. My point still stands

ED E

o1s1n wrote: »

They're not .2g. My point still stands

If it was .43 ok, but many of the snipers out there right now use .28-.3g in plastic, whats wrong with doing the same with metal?

o1s1n

My point about not being able to get .2g metal bbs.

I forgot about our light weight friend aluminum. I was thinking more along the stainless steel/copper lines.

Seems we've already had this discussion in another thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055350621

Fallschirmjager

i think we are missing one thing here ...it still only has 1J of energy....

so what it is made of is feeding a frenzy for the anti airsoft crowd and it is rapidly becoming a mob..

a .2g of kryptonite is still only .2g and an airsoft aeg firing 1j is still 1j...

i think we are falling for the trap that airsoft is moving to real firearms...it isnt...the metal issue is meant only to try and associate us with same.

weeder

although i knew you could get those (and yes in n0.2 if you look hard enough)

still not convinced this is airsoft related since the article states illegal firearm

kevteljeur

o1s1n wrote: »

They're not .2g. My point still stands

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

If it was .43 ok, but many of the snipers out there right now use .28-.3g in plastic, whats wrong with doing the same with metal?

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

i think we are missing one thing here ...it still only has 1J of energy....

so what it is made of is feeding a frenzy for the anti airsoft crowd and it is rapidly becoming a mob..

a .2g of kryptonite is still only .2g and an airsoft aeg firing 1j is still 1j...

i think we are falling for the trap that airsoft is moving to real firearms...it isnt...the metal issue is meant only to try and associate us with same.

I seem to remember that the issue with use of aluminium bbs was similar to that with other non-plastic materials; the properties of the bb and how it deals with the impact energy affect the impact. A good way to see this in action is firing the bbs at a hard surface at close range, and see what happens to both the bb and the surface. I believe that metal bbs will impart more energy to the surface they hit - or, give a harder hit. That could be an issue with goggles or hits from short range. You really could injure someone with aluminium bbs, though at this point I'm theorising and when kdouglas resurfaces he might have something to say about it.

Fallschirmjager

i think you are falling for the same trap ....what you are transferring is the energy (and its mass), not the physical properties...

metal has a whole oooh and aaahhh about it. a bullet does its damage because its delivering the energy of the explosion in the shell. the reasons it is metal is that metal is the cheapest most efficient way of delivering that energy without disintegrating and it has mass. so you are firing the weight with energy...

for instance if you check on ebay about the rail gun the us navy is testing. all it fires is a steel bolt yet when it hits its target it explodes like a bomb...the reason is the huge amount of energy the bolt is fired with hits a solid surface and transfers its energy.

its like the old catch out which weighs heavier a ton of feathers or a ton of steel...well obviously the answer is there is no difference...so .2 is .2 doesnt matter what its made of

now all thats from memory so you may need to do a whole web refresh as i am sure i missed a bit..

edit: who was the big engineering type here who had all this stuff off pat....was it rew or dex? honestly cant remember who but someone can explain it al lot better then i have

Michael-O'Neill

delete this comment

Michael-O'Neill

weeder wrote: »

although i knew you could get those (and yes in n0.2 if you look hard enough)

still not convinced this is airsoft related since the article states illegal firearm

journalists get paid to exaggerate

Hivemind187

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

i think you are falling for the same trap ....what you are transferring is the energy (and its mass), not the physical properties...

metal has a whole oooh and aaahhh about it. a bullet does its damage because its delivering the energy of the explosion in the shell. the reasons it is metal is that metal is the cheapest most efficient way of delivering that energy without disintegrating and it has mass. so you are firing the weight with energy...

for instance if you check on ebay about the rail gun the us navy is testing. all it fires is a steel bolt yet when it hits its target it explodes like a bomb...the reason is the huge amount of energy the bolt is fired with hits a solid surface and transfers its energy.

its like the old catch out which weighs heavier a ton of feathers or a ton of steel...well obviously the answer is there is no difference...so .2 is .2 doesnt matter what its made of

now all thats from memory so you may need to do a whole web refresh as i am sure i missed a bit..

edit: who was the big engineering type here who had all this stuff off pat....was it rew or dex? honestly cant remember who but someone can explain it al lot better then i have

agreed, but it does beg the question - "how much of that energy is delivered on impact?"

We know, for example, that a BB delivers a small ammount of its 1 joule of energy because of elastic properties (rebound effect) however a Paintball will deliver the entireity of its energy upon impact (usually) by liquid transfer i.e. the lack of rebound causes all the energy to dump into the target.

This is better shown by the specialised rounds design for shooting a single individual without the risk of over penetration. A steel round is hollowed and half filled with mercury. When fired the fluid (by force of gravity) is forced to the back of the chamber. Upon impact the fluid rushes forward causing the energy to "dump" into the target preventing over penetration.

With BB's, the plastic kind you will see an elastic effect as it transfers a portion of its energy before "bouncing" off the target. Aluminium BB's should have a similar effect in that the properties of metal are similarly, albeit a lot less, elastic.

Now this said, aluminium BB's will have no greater resistance to wind effects at the same weight as average plastic BB's nor will they be any more accurate. Moreover, aluminium bb's, by virtue of being more ridgid than the plastic will likely do damage to a standard hop (greater erosion over time) and they will likely cause greater pitting of the barrel (the point after the hop where imperfect settings cause collision when the round is forced down rather than rolled).

This however, is all opinion based on what you can see happening.

TheDoc

This conversation went on elsewhere, Metal BB's can go and ****e

I'm pretty sure a metal BB will hurt more, cause more risk to breaking eyewear etc, regardless of if its 1j or not.

The sheer fact that its only 1j, would suggest to me the metal BB farting out of the barel and onto the ground in front.

I personally would take no part in a game/site that allowed the use of anything other then BB pellets, unless there was extensive proof of its safe use.

And even using metal pellets, opens up a whole new kettle of fish, that the large amount of people whose dreams i crush in store by saying " no they cant fire the metal pellets" If my response was " yeah they can fire metal pellets"

I'm pretty sure wed be on a topic of " Do you remember when we played airsoft, you know, before it got banned"

I'd prefer that this board allowed the talk of +1j rifles, more then letting metal pellets being discussed....cause its the ONE defence we have that our equipment is not dangerous.

Imagine when asked what they fire we reply metal pellets, alot worse then saying a plastic BB.

AS far as the article goes, I think its well written. Airsoft is obviously in minds recently...after another article. But how many forget that thousands of Irish people travel to spain every summer, and most of the kids come back with pellet guns. The article doesnt once reference airsoft. This is more then likely a case of the boys coming home from holliers with pellet guns from abroad.

So maybe worrying mothers and public can **** off our backs and giving us ****....and maybe have a go at airports for letting this ****e through.

Media make DOC mad

kdouglas

While I dont have the time to write a full reply, suffice to say that I have a selection of rare types of BBs at home, including steel 0.87g BBs, they will fire, but the power and range is ridiculously low. Out of a 1 Joule AEG, they went about 30 feet and only had 0.5 Joule of energy through a chrono.

MacAonghusa

Blay wrote: »

That line pretty much distances airsoft from this article

I wouldn't be so sure. I know there are knuckle heads out there trying to fire ball bearings with AEGs.
If it looks like the real thing at all then airsoft is part of it.

Hivemind187

amazing I know but I'm about to agree with MacAonghasa (:p).

The fact is folks that this kit was very likely airsoft and that the reporter just made a balls-up and said they fire the "metal pellahs". It's called reporting after the fact or dealing in second hand information. It's pisspoor journalism but are any of you suprised?

When you read an article like this always look at the first three paragraphs. Beyond that the average reader is no longer paying attention (thank our caffiene fueled Murdoch-media news snippet culture for that one). As far as the majority of unitiated people are concered the following are true

1) Airsoft weapons [sic] will take your eye out!
2) A shot to the eye will kill you by going into the brain!
3) They fire metal pellets!
4) They can be converted to fire real ammunition!
5) They killed Mrs Miggins cat Percy!

... atheists eat babies and people from Kerry are all thick.

It's stupid but no matter what you do you will not change the mindset of people who read (and believe) things like that - especially when they are quick enough to spot a vested interest like us.

Arguing whether it has anything to do with airsoft is a waste of time. It has EVERYTHING to do with airsoft. Just as every gun seizure will have something to do with airsoft if the right journalist spins it the right way. Facts dont matter to the consumer, just easily digestable hysteria.

So instead of trying to decide whether this article "has anything to do with airsoft" treat it as if it des and decide - what can be done to put a stop to the behavior the article talks about?

TheDoc

Its so hard to say, how can we cast out such a large net, that we can guarantee everyone is going to behave properly. Its not going to happen. As was mentioned in a different thread, and ive noticed in my estate. Kids running round with toy guns from toy shops, or cap guns.

Its amazing that these same parents are probably the ones rining big joe and the likes. I'm of the personal opinion, after consideration, that there is not much you can do. A topic was held about going on tv, which concluded in a pretty much no, so you cant go out defeinding really.

I dont know how to phrase it correctly to be fair, but the general idea is, to distance ourselves from the non airsofters, who basically purchase airsoft, cheapo springers for intimidation tactics. It might sound mad or wrong or whatever, but we shouldnt go out on an all out public pr offensive, until something REALLY serious happens.

The people that really matter...authorities, wont be reading papers and going by that. They will have their own opinions, and I am sure, 100% sure, that they realise that the people causing these disturbances are not airsofters, just thugs and dopes.

Just as when someone attacks someone else with a hurley and beats them half to death, they dont go on a coupe to ban hurling...

I am even sure that if something governmental came into play, to registrate airsoft, that the players would be at the centre and it wouldnt be so detremental.

I cant say exactly what the solution is, because the article is vague, it may be referring to pellet guns brought home from abroad, we all know how easy you can get a foreign pellet gun through in a suitcase... and it is just after holiday time.

Obviously these incidents are being more heavily critiqued due to the recent articles and phone in shows relating to airsoft.

I cant say personally im worried, as i know alot of people are, but i cant see that we are in some sort of crisis. Although these incidents are happening, theyve happend for many o many of years. Pellet guns, for a long time, have been coming in from abroad, and kids and teens, have been shooting them at ech other.

I remember when i was 13 playing in a cousins garden with pellet guns we got abroad, shooting at each other, no eye protection, then going into the street and doing it, but no one thought we had proper glocks in fairness...

its jsut how times are slightly changing, and everyone seems a bit more fearful and frightened.

Many people know my own personal opinion on these sorta things, and ive stated clearly to individuals who have said the " want to change something help out" line, i genuinely dont want to help out with anything in an offical capactity...I just want to play.

MacAonghusa

Hivemind187 wrote: »

amazing I know but I'm about to agree with MacAonghasa (:p).

I think we've turned a corner in our relationship.

kevteljeur

Hivemind187 wrote: »

As far as the majority of unitiated people are concered the following are true

1) Airsoft weapons [sic] will take your eye out!
2) A shot to the eye will kill you by going into the brain!
3) They fire metal pellets!
4) They can be converted to fire real ammunition!
5) They killed Mrs Miggins cat Percy!

Depressingly, I've had a conversation with one or two friends where I've had these trotted out, and then more depressingly, had to refute them over and over.

No. 4 bothers me, since it's entirely impossible, but you know how it is, if it looks like a dog, and it smells like a dog... You know what I mean.


Mark my words, state-authorised retailers and state-authorised playing sites, and no-where in between shall an AEG be seen...


Edit: oh, and my point about metal bbs was not that they carry more energy (that's what one joule is about) but about the elastic properties of the bb and the redistribution of energy on impact; the reason why a 14J blob of paint doesn't kill you, and why shooting a hard object with a bb shatters it, but not your arse...

We could, and should, make a reference movie on this subject to link to, and maybe a few of them on related subjects.

Hivemind187

kevteljeur wrote: »

We could, and should, make a reference movie on this subject to link to, and maybe a few of them on related subjects.

Myself and Sean (extremetaz) along with a few others have been looking quite seriously at this for the past few months. We intend to put something together early in the ner year once we get through the current workload.

kevteljeur

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Myself and Sean (extremetaz) along with a few others have been looking quite seriously at this for the past few months. We intend to put something together early in the ner year once we get through the current workload.

Excellent. Of course, you are very busy and have 'real life' stuff to do too, but I'd love to help. Let me know (I can twist an arm and get professional help for it), PM me sometime and we can discuss it.

IRISH RAIL

Ill tell you what doesnt help
when we have a thread about bad journalism, and throw in the fact we want to distance ourselves from illegal firearms.

then we have an ad at the top of this page with buy air guns

the ads by google should be modified to suit

MacAonghusa

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

Ill tell you what doesnt help
when we have a thread about bad journalism, and throw in the fact we want to distance ourselves from illegal firearms.

then we have an ad at the top of this page with buy air guns

the ads by google should be modified to suit

well spotted. I've gone google-ad-blind, don't even see them anymore,

Fallschirmjager

that can happen anywhere

kevteljeur

MacAonghusa wrote: »

well spotted. I've gone google-ad-blind, don't even see them anymore,

Actually, I literally don't see them at all. I thought I might have nuked the ads in my Hosts file, but apparently not. Odd. Small blessing.