Bulk or cut? U decide!

d-gal

I am stuck in the dilemma should I now bulk or cut. I love mixing my programs up and a new one is due to start this week. I am 90kg, 6'2, and I would always love to reach the 100kg mark, purely for the fun of it
i am a hardgainer so sometimes its diminishing to me but I do like a challenge here and there.
I think my problem is I am caught in two worlds, sometimes I want to be shredded at 86kg or would love to burst out a XL tshirt at 95kg! So im gonna let ye decide, majority wins :pac:

fatal

Though im not a hardgainer,im in the same boat as you.I would love to hit 100kg purely for the sake of it,but at the same time I want to cut soon.
As im only something like 14lbs away from the 100kg mark,il probably keep bulking for another 5/6 weeks and then cut

Hanley

If in doubt.... bulk it out.

That's my motto.

OT: I'm wired to the moon tonight. I've been in bed since 12.30 and spent an hour tossing and turning before giving up on sleep for a while. Stupid sore body!!

dioltas

Maybe I shoulda started a new thread for this, but can someone explain what are bulking and cutting? I've seen them mentioned a few times here. Is cutting just dieting to lose weight and become more toned, and bulking eating loads to put on weight? Wouldn't that mean you put on a loada fat?

DM-BM

dioltas wrote: »

Maybe I shoulda started a new thread for this, but can someone explain what are bulking and cutting? I've seen them mentioned a few times here. Is cutting just dieting to lose weight and become more toned, and bulking eating loads to put on weight? Wouldn't that mean you put on a loada fat?

Basically yeah, bulking is when you train to build muscle, to build muscle you will need to consume a calorie surplus, which will also mean you put on some fat, it's (at least in my case) practically impossible to put on any suubstancial amount of muscle without some fat aswell.

Cutting is when you adjust your food intake, consume less calories and change the way you train to burn as much fat as possible, while trying to maintain the muscle you have gained.

yomchi

Bulking and cutting is a term that has been hi-jacked by the regular gym goer

Originally, the terms were associated with body building, where REAL bulking and cutting were the phases before tournaments and shows. Bulking meaning going through an 'off season' where the BBer would increase body mass dramatically improving muscle mass, BBers in the off season can look fat or bulky.
The cutting phases is about 16 weeks out from a tournament where the BBer changes the diet and the training routine, in order to shed excess body fat which defines the new muscle mass, cutting is an extremly difficult period for BBers and is probably the hardest part of the training as their diet is scarily low on cals.

These days and especially on forums, regular gym users use these terms, but unless their in the business of BBing in it's pure form, bulking usually means 'i want to add some muscle and not be skinny' and Cutting means 'i want to shift my beer belly or go on a diet'
No offence to the OP!

Hanley

Jon wrote: »

Bulking and cutting is a term that has been hi-jacked by the regular gym goer

SO true. I love it. I was gonna type up a smart ar5e reply about how people don't actually know what it means anymore, but Jon hit the nail on the head there.

kevpants

True cutting is not a nice process. The BB'ers up in TF are on their cut now in preperation for Mr Ireland in a few weeks time. Not a happy bunch of bunnys.

You've never seen weightloss like this, as the days go by you see them shrinking. It's not fun. Certianly not the type of a "hmmm what will I do this week, bulk or cut" type scenario!

celestial

Jon wrote: »

, bulking usually means 'i want to add some muscle and not be skinny'

Plus having an excuse to eat whatever you want in whatever quantity...

BossArky

d-gal wrote: »

So im gonna let ye decide, majority wins :pac:

Cut.

Quality over quantity anytime.

Degsy

kevpants wrote: »

True cutting is not a nice process. The BB'ers up in TF are on their cut now in preperation for Mr Ireland in a few weeks time. Not a happy bunch of bunnys.

You've never seen weightloss like this, as the days go by you see them shrinking. It's not fun. Certianly not the type of a "hmmm what will I do this week, bulk or cut" type scenario!

Saw one bloke posing the other day,in really good shape,very lean and large muscles.The bloke wirth him was telling him he needed to shift "even more off the back"..yer man did NOT look or sound happy!

dioltas

Glad I read this post. Ive regularly do weight training and am fairly muscular, but I've alot of fat covering the muscle, so maybe I should give cutting a go. I dont really watch my diet other than taking protein shakes and eating lots of beans, tuna etc.

I'd like to lose some fat so that my muscles would be more defined ya know, but at the same time continue to build muscle. I was always confused about this cause i thought you needed extra calories to put on muscle, but less to lose weight. So this is not really possible, its one or the other?

Anyone have a good link to information about cutting (or bulking) and diet/exercise guidelines. Thanks.

Transform

just get into fantastic, head turning shape.

Can you see your abs -no. Then drop some body fat and keep getting stronger and the weight will go on with enough clean food.

gabgab

CUT,

paddymorrison

OP, we need a pic!

d-gal

Im around round 12% bf at the moment, ridiculously small waist of 32inches (across the naval) and shoulder width of 50 inches. Fcuk it im gonna go bulking, means I can eat my favourite foods :pac:

paddymorrison

Shoulder width 50 inches!? Surely you mean circumference?

Yeah, I would say bulk too with those stats.

d-gal

Ya obviously enough circumference. Cant remember any other stats besides arms being 16 1/4 inches, thats about it

Rocket!

d-gal wrote: »

means I can eat my favourite foods :pac:

I think thats why the pros hate when ppl use the term 'bulking'... :rolleyes:

paddymorrison

But what's the favourite foods though?

Hanley

Jesus d-gal... those are some fantastic proportions!! You must have a class v-taper with 50 inch shoulders and a 32 inch waist!!

I'm guessing your legs are <25 inches?

Hanley

Rocket! wrote: »

I think thats why the pros hate when ppl use the term 'bulking'... :rolleyes:

I thought we'd established people didn't really know what "bulking" was.... You'e not gonna get all the calories you need in clean food. There's no harm dipping in the tradtional "bad" foods once there's some protein there too.

I've already noticed myself getting fuller and more solid after a week of just eating. That's it.. just eating. And making sure I'm eating lots.

Rocket!

True enough! If its steak and veggies hes sorted. If on the otherhand its like some people, a takeaway here, a tub or 4 of Ben and Jerrys there your f*cked.

Saying that d-gal, your diet could be as clean as a whistle I cant say! You should post up what a 'cutting' diet and a 'bulking' diet would be for you. Should make things more transparent.

Rocket!

Hanley wrote: »

You'e not gonna get all the calories you need in clean food.

Id say that could be argued. Id say its possible, just hard to do. In saying that, I agree with ya that a bit of bad food every now and again is alright. Sure its impossible to do anything sociable without taking in some form of "bad" calories! As long as the good predominantely outweights the bad youre grand. When you say a week of just eating, im sure youre doing plenty of tough workouts on top of that though yeah?

Hanley wrote: »

Jesus d-gal... those are some fantastic proportions!! You must have a class v-taper with 50 inch shoulders and a 32 inch waist!!

I'm guessing your legs are <25 inches?

And he has only has one foot.

MCMLXXXIII

Cut.

Cut, cut, cut!

Big looks good, cut looks better.


Can we get a Poll?

yomchi

How can one Cut, if they haven't bulked? I dunno this one has me bambuzled.
Maybe this photo courtesy of Paul White will show, on the left is him in Bulking season, on the right is him after a cut
d-gal is this what your after?

d-gal

Hanley wrote: »

Jesus d-gal... those are some fantastic proportions!! You must have a class v-taper with 50 inch shoulders and a 32 inch waist!!

I'm guessing your legs are <25 inches?

Hehe i know my friends hate me! I dunno my inches in my legs, will get the measuring tape out 2mro.

My diet is fairly good, generally a lot of chicken, eggs, steak, pasta, rice and veg, and I will switch between low fat and skimmed milk depending on what I am doing. tbh when i use the terms bulking and cutting I mean in the BB sense. Below 8% for cutting and just big and bloody hyoooge for bulking.
Looking forward to it now, will be posting up a few more stats tomorrow

Rocket!

If thats the main stuff you eat the diet looks great. You obviously know what your doing. Sorry if it looked like I was implying you didnt earlier on!
So, if youve made up your mind and youre gonna go for the hundred id advise lots of milk and peanut butter.
I say that to everyone!:)

Best of luck with the bulk man, im looking forward to hearing how you get on!

gabgab

Yeh I am very interested in this, throw up some pics and maybe a log. They always make interesting reading,

Sonderval

Do both

Degsy

Jon wrote: »

How can one Cut, if they haven't bulked? I dunno this one has me bambuzled.
Maybe this photo courtesy of Paul White will show, on the left is him in Bulking season, on the right is him after a cut
d-gal is this what your after?

His diet seemed weird to me.Obviously if it works who am i to argue but a sample meal might be ONE tin of tuna and 250 grams of potatoes and 100 grams of pineapple.He'd eat that 9 times a day apparantly during his cutting phase too.
I'm no expert but it just seemed to me he was eating absolutely tons of carbs and very little protein.
I was watching a docu on DIscovery called Locked Up about American prisons and a huge number of the inmates seem to be bodybuilders of some sort.Mostly doing pull ups,dips and bodyweight excercises.Anyway,in the main they were lean verging on ripped with massive chests,arms and shoulders.
Guess what/the diet consists of?huge amounts of carbs in the form of grits,potatoes and bread and very little in the way of good protein,a couple of eggs or a meat stew of some sort.
Its certainly "food" for thought..

celestial

Degsy wrote: »

His diet seemed weird to me.Obviously if it works who am i to argue but a sample meal might be ONE tin of tuna and 250 grams of potatoes and 100 grams of pineapple.He'd eat that 9 times a day apparantly during his cutting phase too.
I'm no expert but it just seemed to me he was eating absolutely tons of carbs and very little protein.
I was watching a docu on DIscovery called Locked Up about American prisons and a huge number of the inmates seem to be bodybuilders of some sort.Mostly doing pull ups,dips and bodyweight excercises.Anyway,in the main they were lean verging on ripped with massive chests,arms and shoulders.
Guess what/the diet consists of?huge amounts of carbs in the form of grits,potatoes and bread and very little in the way of good protein,a couple of eggs or a meat stew of some sort.
Its certainly "food" for thought..

Don't forget though that many of these guys are on 10 or 20 year stretches, maybe life imprisonment, nothing to do in their free time except lift weights and do push-ups every day for months and years on end, having possibly worked out regularly and/or seriously even before prison - methinks with all that time on your hands what you eat becomes far less of a factor

Hanley

Degsy wrote: »

His diet seemed weird to me.Obviously if it works who am i to argue but a sample meal might be ONE tin of tuna and 250 grams of potatoes and 100 grams of pineapple.He'd eat that 9 times a day apparantly during his cutting phase too.
I'm no expert but it just seemed to me he was eating absolutely tons of carbs and very little protein.
I was watching a docu on DIscovery called Locked Up about American prisons and a huge number of the inmates seem to be bodybuilders of some sort.Mostly doing pull ups,dips and bodyweight excercises.Anyway,in the main they were lean verging on ripped with massive chests,arms and shoulders.
Guess what/the diet consists of?huge amounts of carbs in the form of grits,potatoes and bread and very little in the way of good protein,a couple of eggs or a meat stew of some sort.
Its certainly "food" for thought..

I haven't studied the diet in any great detail, but you gotta remember, these guys are doing HUGE amounts of cardio, so using the carbs isn't gonna be a problem.

Alternatively, he could be cycling carbs? So high, low and medium days?

Degsy

Hanley wrote: »

I haven't studied the diet in any great detail, but you gotta remember, these guys are doing HUGE amounts of cardio, so using the carbs isn't gonna be a problem.

Alternatively, he could be cycling carbs? So high, low and medium days?

Dunno really.Here's a copy of Paul White's diet weeks 6-7.
Day 1

Meal 1

• 1 tin tuna
• 250g Potatoes
• 5 grams Glutamine

Meal 2

• 100g Turkey / Chicken
• 200g Potatoes

Meal 3

• 130 g turkey
• 250g potatoes

Meal 4

• 130g turkey
• 250g potatoes

Meal 5

• 1 tin tuna
• 200g potatoes

Meal 6

• 100g Turkey
• 200g pototes

Meal 7

• 1 tin tuna
• 200g potatoe

Meal 8

• 10oz fresh cod (280g frozen)
• 200g pineapple

Meal 9

• 130g turkey
• 250g potatoes

Pre Training

• 2 scoops of NRG Blast

After Training

• 2 scoops of Recovery

Day 2

Meal 1

• 1 tin tuna
• 125g Potatoe
• 5 grams Glutamine

Meal 2

• 100g Turkey / Chicken
• 100g Potatoes

Meal 3

• 130 g turkey
• 125g potatoes

Meal 4

• 130g turkey
• 125g potatoes

Meal 5

• 1 tin tuna
• 100g potatoe

Meal 6

• 100g Turkey
• 100g pototes

Meal 7

• 1 tin tuna
• 200g potatoes

Meal 8

• 10oz fresh cod (280g frozen)
• 200g potatoes

Meal 9

• 130g turkey
• 125g potatoes

Pre Training

• 2 scoops of NRG Blast

After Training

• 1 scoops of Recovery

celestial

Degsy wrote: »

Dunno really.Here's a copy of Paul White's diet weeks 6-7.
Day 1

Meal 1

• 1 tin tuna
• 250g Potatoes
• 5 grams Glutamine

Meal 2

• 100g Turkey / Chicken
• 200g Potatoes

Meal 3

• 130 g turkey
• 250g potatoes

Meal 4

• 130g turkey
• 250g potatoes

Meal 5

• 1 tin tuna
• 200g potatoes

Meal 6

• 100g Turkey
• 200g pototes

Meal 7

• 1 tin tuna
• 200g potatoe

Meal 8

• 10oz fresh cod (280g frozen)
• 200g pineapple

Meal 9

• 130g turkey
• 250g potatoes

Pre Training

• 2 scoops of NRG Blast

After Training

• 2 scoops of Recovery

Day 2

Meal 1

• 1 tin tuna
• 125g Potatoe
• 5 grams Glutamine

Meal 2

• 100g Turkey / Chicken
• 100g Potatoes

Meal 3

• 130 g turkey
• 125g potatoes

Meal 4

• 130g turkey
• 125g potatoes

Meal 5

• 1 tin tuna
• 100g potatoe

Meal 6

• 100g Turkey
• 100g pototes

Meal 7

• 1 tin tuna
• 200g potatoes

Meal 8

• 10oz fresh cod (280g frozen)
• 200g potatoes

Meal 9

• 130g turkey
• 125g potatoes

Pre Training

• 2 scoops of NRG Blast

After Training

• 1 scoops of Recovery

Does he really need all those spuds?!?!!

Degsy

celestial wrote: »

Does he really need all those spuds?!?!!

Thats what i was wondering.he must be eating two kilos of spuds a day.Also,thats his pre-competition diet..the off-season diet contains up to a pound of spuds in one meal,twice a day!
Paul White Off-Season Diet

July 22, 2008

Meal 1

• 1 tin tuna
• 300g Potatoes
• 30g raisins

Meal 2

• 1 serving Mass Gain

Meal 3

• 130 g turkey
• 400g potatoes

Meal 4

• 130g turkey
• 400g potatoes

Meal 5

• 100g rice crispies low fat milk
• 100g peanut butte

Meal 6

• After training: 2 scoops of Recovery

Meal 7

• 5 slices wholemeal bread
• 1 tin tuna

Meal 8

• 200g cod

Meal 9

• 1 serving Mass Gain

brianthebard

Perhaps this is a dumb question, but why no fruit and veg?

Degsy

brianthebard wrote: »

Perhaps this is a dumb question, but why no fruit and veg?

No fats to speak of either.

brianthebard

well a bit in the cod and peanut butter, but not exactly a lot, or what would be expected.

yomchi

See. No one knows what a cut is!

brianthebard

Jon wrote: »

See. No one knows what a cut is!

I think the difference is whether or not you would say that to his face!

Hanley

Jon wrote: »

See. No one knows what a cut is!

It's amazing how he's doing everything "wrong" but still looks better than everyone on the board eh..?

Rocket!

From those pics, whatever hes doing, its working! Isnt it always a case of doing something, looking in the mirror, if its working keep doing it, if it aint, change it.

Anyways, you might be right Hanley, id say those days could be his high carb days if hes cycling carbs(which is a good chance, since hes cutting and all).
Found a good article on carb cycling when I was finding out a bit about it awhile ago if any of ye are interested:
http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/losing-weight/21761-very-good-article-carb-cycling.html

yomchi

From those pics, whatever hes doing, its working

Sure is. Paul has competed internationally as part of NABBA Ireland.
This mon amis is a cut.

yomchi

Hanley wrote: »

It's amazing how he's doing everything "wrong" but still looks better than everyone on the board eh..?

you obviously haven't met G'em

DM-BM

Hanley wrote: »

It's amazing how he's doing everything "wrong" but still looks better than everyone on the board eh..?

I don't think any one said he was wrong, did they?

Seems to me that some people don't understand, myself included, the exact reasons behind some of his food choices, both in his cut and bulk phases. Like stated above lots of carbs, a relative lack of fats, and whats with the low fat milk in the bulk phase.

Now I'm certainly NOT saying he is wrong, but I don't really understand these choices, like we are always told how important fats are, if you know why, why not enlighten us.

Hanley

DM-BM wrote: »

I don't think any one said he was wrong, did they?

Seems to me that some people don't understand, myself included, the exact reasons behind some of his food choices, both in his cut and bulk phases. Like stated above lots of carbs, a relative lack of fats, and whats with the low fat milk in the bulk phase.

Now I'm certainly NOT saying he is wrong, but I don't really understand these choices, like we are always told how important fats are, if you know why, why not enlighten us.

The shock and confusion people displayed as his lack of what seems to be accepted here as being "right" would imply that what he's doing is some how wrong, no? It further confirms the fact that 85% of people on internet forums don't have a clue what they're talking about and don't know what it takes to build signifcant amounts of muscle and display them on stage.

The reason he's eating the foods he is, is because they're simple, easy to prepare and there's not much chance he's going to binge on them.

He's in the final stages of preparation for the national bodybuilding championships. He's been on the world stage. His calories are just so low at this stage (remember how heavy he is and how much kcals he's expending per day) that the carbs and protein will do more than the fat to keep him feeling full.

You can't discount the mental benefit that exists from feeling full up on potatoes when you're in the middle of a diet more severe than most people can comprehend.

Of course fats are important. And I'd be surprised if he spends the whole year eating as clean as his off season diet suggests. Right now tho, I would say that fat intake ceases to be important because all that matters now is controlling calories (not the macro's) and simply sheding the last remaining pockets of fat from his body.

It might be cool is someone got in contact with Mark and got him or someone else to explain the reasoning behind it.

DM-BM

No, i don't think its fair to assume that people think he's wrong, just because they don't understand the reasons behind what he is doing.
I mean all they did was ask like, they didn't come on here saying he should be doing x y and z.

I still don't really get the lack of fats though, I fairly sure I remember when g'em had a training log here, she was taking spoons full of oilve or some other oil at stages through the day, when she was cutting. I was just under the impression, perhaps erroniously(sp) , that fats, were important for cutting.

Hanley

DM-BM wrote: »

No, i don't think its fair to assume that people think he's wrong, just because they don't understand the reasons behind what he is doing.
I mean all they did was ask like, they didn't come on here saying he should be doing x y and z.

I still don't really get the lack of fats though, I fairly sure I remember when g'em had a training log here, she was taking spoons full of oilve or some other oil at stages through the day, when she was cutting. I was just under the impression, perhaps erroniously(sp) , that fats, were important for cutting.

Ok, well how abou this, if you hadn't seen G'ems journal first, would you still think Paul's diet was wrong? Or would you think G'ems was wrong?? Are you just responding to this now because of the way you've been conditioned previously??

There may be some fatty dressing in there that just aren't mentioned too.

FWIW, I've spoken to a few bodybuilders in my gym and in the final stages of contest preparation they pretty much just ate lots of protein and a little bit of carbs too.

yomchi

DM-BM wrote: »

No, i don't think its fair to assume that people think he's wrong, just because they don't understand the reasons behind what he is doing.
I mean all they did was ask like, they didn't come on here saying he should be doing x y and z.

I still don't really get the lack of fats though, I fairly sure I remember when g'em had a training log here, she was taking spoons full of oilve or some other oil at stages through the day, when she was cutting. I was just under the impression, perhaps erroniously(sp) , that fats, were important for cutting.

You are correct, fats replace carbs when on the first stages of a cut. This is because, the fats provide a different source of energy, allowing the body to work off the stored energy (fat cells) that has been created by carbs. This is a simplistic version of it. Remember different strokes for different folks, something different may work for him.

As Paul gets near the end of his cutting phase, the amount of cals he takes in daily will be miniscule and up the event they will be virtualy non existant until carb loading time which beefs them right out just before the event.
Also what isn't mentioned is the amount of Vit C (if that is his choice) he is taking as a diuretic which aids that shrink wrap look effect.

Degsy

Hanley wrote: »

FWIW, I've spoken to a few bodybuilders in my gym and in the final stages of contest preparation they pretty much just ate lots of protein and a little bit of carbs too.

But there's the rub.
He's eating TONS of carbs and **** all protein.
ONE tin of tuna at a time cannot,according to conventional wisdom provide a 200lb man with enough protein to keep his muscles,much less grow.
I've been hearin all sorts of stuff over the years on how to get big,the popular choice now seems to be high fat,high protein low carbs..is it all just codology?