M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

cjpm

That misleading headline on the RTE Facebook post about halving the width of the proposed motorway is after causing so many shït attacks. Read some of the comments. God the standard of journalism in RTE to have a headline like that beggars belief

Pete_Cavan

I understand that there isn't space for a motorway junction at the existing Croom N20 junction, I still don't see any logic behind having two half junctions rather than a full one further north where there is lots of space.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429156#Comment_121429156

We are on the way out but that's not the discussion. Stick to roads please and cope harder.

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430372#Comment_121430372

Usefulness would be one reason. A single junction further north might look neater on a map, but it's further from where it's needed.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430468#Comment_121430468

Like I said before, a junction further north could easily tie into the road network on the northern side of the town, which is where the town is expanding and much . As proposed will force Croom traffic through the main street going to/coming from the N20. Could you elaborate on how "usefulness" could be a reason for the proposed half junction as I honestly don't see it?

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430333#Comment_121430333

It was interesting to see how others copied what RTE had and ran with it. I saw that nonsense about halving the width of the road (as opposed to the corridor) on a number of other websites as the day progressed. The worst was some outfit called 95livefm, who not alone had it as a headline but they repeated it in paragraphs 1 and 3 of the article. In fairness most who carried this appear to have corrected it, but not before a lot of indignation and high dudgeon. And one well known member of tribe twitterati picked it up and responded "Why should a motorway from Limerick to Cork be narrower than one from Limerick to Dublin? Once again those living beyond the M50 are treated like second class citizens." That one is still out there.

And the Irish Times still has an article up with the headline "Transport Infrastructure Ireland seeks approval for Cork-Limerick motorway upgrade"; from what I can see nobody is looking for approval at this point in time - that looks to be at least a year away.

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121423988#Comment_121423988

I'd be as skeptical as any about the likely success of major road projects on Ryan's watch, but you'd have to give credit to the team currently running with the M20. It's early days years still, but so far the project appears to be in very competent hands. If this level of communication and consultation had taken place in relation to the early phases of the M28 for instance, instead of the ham-fisted way CCC and the NRA dealt with it, there is a good chance that the problems and delays that arose later could have been avoided. I'm not counting any chickens, but this project appears to making steady progress. Fingers crossed.

Hibernicis

The project team are hosting two public webinars on the latest update. The first of these takes place on Wednesday 29th November (today) at 7pm. Details and links are at the end of the page (not yet live). I attended one of the webinars earlier this year and it was excellent; good questions, straight answers, no speechifying or political bs and very comprehensive while also being tightly controlled. The majority of the answers came from Jarri Howard, the project coordinator, and his team so were factual. I'd recommend it to anybody who can spare the time.

https://corklimerick.ie/project-update-november-2023-27-11-2023/

pigtown

If anyone is attending a webinar can you ask what the plan for the M20/M7 junction is?

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121431676#Comment_121431676

M20/M20 junction. The M7 ends at Rosbrien.

pigtown

Yes but it'll need an upgrade in tandem with this road

Hibernicis

@pigtown Just to be clear is it the existing M20/M7/N18 junction you are referring to ?

I don’t think questions will be taken during the webinar. You could try submitting your question using the feedback form or emailing it and saying that it was a question for the webinar. The email address and feedback form are available on the page I linked to above.

pigtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121431800#Comment_121431800

That's the one yes. It won't be able to cope with all of the port traffic

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121431806#Comment_121431806

What has the port traffic got to do with the M20? That's the Limerick to Foynes road which is long past the planning stage. The Rosbrien junction is not in the remit of the M20 project.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121431806#Comment_121431806

They shoukd haveblearned from the Red Cow and Dunkettle fiasco and get tge interchange right first day. A roundabout configuration will not sufice.

TBF the NRA got the M6/M18 interchange fairly future proofed with a substancial roundabout with only traffic turning 270 degrees going to the rounabout everything elsenis diverted. However I expect an interchange at the new conververgence point

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121431806#Comment_121431806

I’m not sure that it’s in scope, but it’s worth asking the question. The existing junction is sub-standard has some significant weaknesses.

I’d also be interested to see what’s done with the M20/M21 merge. Will it allow all movements or be restricted like the M7/M9 and M7/M8 junctions.

pigtown

Sorry, thought I was on the M21 thread.

The point stands though, the additional M20 traffic generated by the new road combined with the new M21 traffic will overwhelm the existing junction. It'd make sense for an upgrade to be handled by the M20 team as the M21 is already designed and permitted.

I hope there is full movement possible at the M20/M21 junction. I'd expect a lot of the port traffic to head south

Chris_5339762

Nah, the Rossbrien junction is freeflow already. Not much that can be done with it.

I would be intrigued to see what they do with Attyflin (M20/M21) though, but more importantly what will they do about N40 NRR / M20, where the North Ring will intersect the new M20 in Cork. It would be worth asking do they have any future proofing planned for that.

Hibernicis

I've gathered what I believe to be the questions above and submitted the following:

Date: Wednesday, 29 November 2023 at 12:58

To: info@corklimerick.ie <info@corklimerick.ie>

Subject: M/N 20 Webinar Question re Major Junctions/Interchanges

Thank you for the information provided via the update page on the M/N20 website. This is very informative and greatly appreciated. 

 

Can I ask what is the current status/thinking in respect of the major junctions/interchanges, specifically:

 

M20/M7/N18 interchange – will this be upgraded to handle the additional traffic and to eliminate current shortcomings ?

 

M20/M21 interchange – what format will this interchange take, a full free flow junction allowing all possible movements, in particular M20N to M21S and M21N to M20S or a restricted trumpet style interchange similar to the M7/M9 merge/diverge and the M7/M8 merge/diverge or a roundabout of some sort ?

 

M20 Blackpool interchange/termination – what is under consideration here to cater for the smooth, safe and efficient arrival of a large volume of high speed traffic in the vicinity of Blackpool ? Will provision be made for future interconnection with the road formerly known as the Cork Northern Ring Road and/or any future extension of the N/M40 North and West and/or any Cork Northern Distributor Road ?

 

I appreciate that it’s early days but the design of these interchanges will have a huge impact on the success of the M/N20 project. 

 

Thank you 

hans aus dtschl

I don't see what they can do with Blackpool to be honest? If they do anything at all they'll be accused of putting the cart before the horse in terms of Northern Bypass or Distributor design?

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430333#Comment_121430333

It's actually the opposite. You can call it click bait, but 'headlines' have always been like that. They need to grab your attention. Which they have done with you and others. You even read the comments and post about them here. Driving further traffic to the site. While it may not be pink sheet, Times of London style journalism, the headline was written by someone very good at their job.

gooseman12

Will be very interesting to see the level of engineering required to the east of mallow, you have a nice run down from the hills at around 180/190m altitude to the river at less than 50m.

Would love to see nicely designed/statement bridge go in rather than a concrete lump but all depends on budget i guess.

cjpm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121433555#Comment_121433555

This is the website of our national broadcaster - not The S*n.

Personally I’d expect better. I only read the comments because some are hilarious.

“FFS Half a motorway “ 😂😂

Our Posh Bike Salesman is getting hammered in them too 😂

Stark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121433555#Comment_121433555

The "opposite"? You've just gone and defined clickbait in your explanation.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121433839#Comment_121433839

Apologies if I wasn't clear. I didn't say it was the opposite of click bait. I said that it was the opposite of poor journalism that cjpm described it as.

KrisW1001

Surprised that nobody has mentioned it, but in the illustrations of active travel options, the mainline is shown as Type 1 DC.

I think this will be the first Type 1 to be built to include a parallel cycleway/footpath alongside the vehicle carriageways

Itssoeasy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430422#Comment_121430422

Well sticking to the roads I’ll take the opinions of posters in this forum who seem very well versed in all things roads and infrastructure and don’t seem of the opinion that this will be made a mess of.

Chris_5339762

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432817#Comment_121432817

Very little TBH, which is why I feel they should have done a sneaky and bundled the M20 with the Cork NRR, to have the M20 basically start on the M8. As it is we will end up with an M20 that ploughs straight into Blackpool, only a few kilometers from the M8. And no N40 Cork North Ring.

Limerick74

Northern distributor Road is critical. Needs to get moving again.

Limerick74

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432705#Comment_121432705

Did you get any feedback on your questions?