M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

KrisW1001

I think the Charleville councillor has seen so many false dawns on N20, that he's given up on the idea, and is pushing for a lesser, more achievable goal. It's understandable.

Actually, Charleville will probably still need a relief road, even when M20 is completed: even with Cork-Limerick long-distance traffic removed, there'll still be far too much local traffic routed through the middle of the town.

Mc Love

Whats the story with the M20 going through Crecora? Even Niall Collins is against the motorway now for some reason. Crecora is nowhere near the M20/Cork Road so I dont know where people are getting the idea that it will be going through Crecora?

AugustusMinimus

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Take a look at the comments on the echo Facebook page, comments are being deleted as well by the looks of it

The Echo is an absolute rag and it’s clear that some articles have a clear intention.

The constantly delete unwanted comments on their Facebook page too.

Plain dc is never going to be built for Blarney - Mallow. Makes no sense at all.

Cork Trucker

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The Echo is an absolute rag and it’s clear that some articles have a clear intention.

The constantly delete unwanted comments on their Facebook page too.

Plain dc is never going to be built for Blarney - Mallow. Makes no sense at all.

100% agree with you. These people are just hoping that it will be shelved again

Limerick74

Mc Love wrote: »

Whats the story with the M20 going through Crecora? Even Niall Collins is against the motorway now for some reason. Crecora is nowhere near the M20/Cork Road so I dont know where people are getting the idea that it will be going through Crecora?

Two of the shortlisted options go near Crecora connecting into the existing M20 junctions at Patrickswell and Raheen. These options would reduce Cork Limerick journey times as more direct than existing N20 and give different junction options.

Bazzer007

Newstalk aired a fairly one-sided discussion on the proposed routes last week. Most contributors were pro dual carriageway including Councillor Doyle from Charleville. The Navy route protesters were letting it known the route has no business going through their land/house. Those on the Amber route know the uncertainty if/when the motorway may be going through your land/house for over a decade is a lot worse than complaining about the lack of consultation. I think O'Donnell/Collins were both aggrieved that the proposed routes should all be fully costed before the consultation not just when the route is chosen. I imagine the outlay of actually costing all three routes would be prohibitive.

https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-lunchtime-live/plans-for-a-cork-limerick-motorway

Pete_Cavan

Bazzer007 wrote: »

I think O'Donnell/Collins were both aggrieved that the proposed routes should all be fully costed before the consultation not just when the route is chosen. I imagine the outlay of actually costing all three routes would be prohibitive.

In order to fully cost a route, you need to know exactly where it is going, what the terrain and geographical conditions are like on the actual 30-40m corridor on which it would be built, number of junctions and lengths of accompanyinglink roads, over/under bridges of existing roads and spans of same, ditto for river crossings, amount of property and buildings which would have to be CPOed and also accompanying works etc.

If you select the route, everyone would go mad that a route was selected without any consultation! Presumably they want these costings on a defined route on each of the corridor options, pissing off everyone in north Cork/south Limerick and killing the project before it starts. Every aspect of the cost estimate would undoubtedly change at that point, requiring entirely new estimates across the board.

Somebody needs to point out to those two geniuses that they are arguing that putting the cart before the horse is a good idea. A good slap wouldn't go amiss either.

Isambard

never mind the cost, we need the best route for the maximum number of people.

Limerick74

N20 O’Rourkes Cross Oral Hearing being held remotely today. Was part of the previous M20 scheme in 2010.

Red Silurian

Limerick74 wrote: »

N20 O’Rourkes Cross Oral Hearing being held remotely today. Was part of the previous M20 scheme in 2010.

How did it go? What's the plan for the petrol station/bus stop?

Cork Trucker

colmtheperson wrote: »

How did it go? What's the plan for the petrol station/bus stop?

Wasn't a roundabout meant to go in there?

Cookiemunster

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Wasn't a roundabout meant to go in there?

Yeah its going to be a roundabout.
https://www.limerick.ie/council/services/roads-and-travel/road-improvements-major-schemes/n20-orourkes-cross

mydiscworld

So they are building the roundabout before the motorway?

That should delay traffic nicely on busy days...

serfboard

mydiscworld wrote: »

So they are building the roundabout before the motorway?

That should delay traffic nicely on busy days...

Normally I'd agree with you, but the roundabout needs to be built and they can't wait a decade or more for the road to be finished ...

marno21

https://corklimerick.ie/november-2020-public-consultation/

A large response to the public consultation. They predict the preferred option will be published in summer 2021.

serfboard

marno21 wrote: »

https://corklimerick.ie/november-2020-public-consultation/

A large response to the public consultation. They predict the preferred option will be published in summer 2021.

That's very intersting. Here's what stood out for me:

Letters to Properties: Notification letters were issued to over 5,000 properties within the Phase 2 Study Area. These letters have led to hundreds of calls from residents seeking to engage in the public consultation.

So, it seems that of all the other methods mentioned (Newspapers (national and local), Local Radio, Briefing to Elected Representatives, Project Website, Local Authority Websites, Twitter) none were as noteworthy in producing responses as posting letters to people's houses was.

Worth keeping in mind for other public consultations, and proves a point I made before in relation to another project - the public do not follow all these other methods as closely as some here assume they do.

Hibernicis

serfboard wrote: »

That's very intersting. Here's what stood out for me:

Letters to Properties: Notification letters were issued to over 5,000 properties within the Phase 2 Study Area. These letters have led to hundreds of calls from residents seeking to engage in the public consultation.

So, it seems that of all the other methods mentioned (Newspapers (national and local), Local Radio, Briefing to Elected Representatives, Project Website, Local Authority Websites, Twitter) none were as noteworthy in producing responses as posting letters to people's houses was.

Worth keeping in mind for other public consultations, and proves a point I made before in relation to another project - the public do not follow all these other methods as closely as some here assume they do.

That’s a very good point and it’s good to see the Council learning from previous experiences. Should help avoid a situation in the future where the council is accused of trampling on people’s rights and failing to engage meaningfully as happened in the case of the M28.

Also good to see the timeline for the publication of the preferred route.

Limerick74

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/607595/limerick-enterprise-development-partnership-seeks-reinstatement-of-m20-link-road.html

He may not like the access arrangement but it was never a temporary one.

Isambard

Limerick74 wrote: »

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/607595/limerick-enterprise-development-partnership-seeks-reinstatement-of-m20-link-road.html

He may not like the access arrangement but it was never a temporary one.

I always thought it was an odd way to do it but I think maybe it was to stop traffic back ups on to the Motorway.

Bass Reeves

Isambard wrote: »

I always thought it was an odd way to do it but I think maybe it was to stop traffic back ups on to the Motorway.

They would have had to build a second bridge or interchange. It's a four way intersection. By 2008 they knew that traffic light roundabouts were a disaster and traffic backs up on them. You need a proper interchange. Once again the BRA went for the cheap option and did not future proof the road.

Limerick the third biggest city in Ireland technically has only two junctions to enter the city center. Both roads off these, the dock road and Tipperary/ Ballysimon road both clog up at rush out. Drivers are using the Dooradoyle exit and coming down past Old Cresent rugby club into a build up area as a rat run into the city. Drivers use the Tipperary junction and Bloodmill road as another day run to access the Parkway/Rhebogue area. Traffic from the Ennis side still use the Condell Road, many avoid the toll coming in past the Limerick Inn as there is no time savings going through the tunnel to access the city center

rounders

The M20 Cork to Limerick project is in planning and design at the moment.

Mr Barrett said there would be some work ongoing in the coming months such as site investigations on corridors identified for assessment, aerial topographical surveys ongoing by plane in March, and environmental surveys by foot in spring and summer 2021.

It is hoped the final route will be selected by the middle of this year. Mr Barrett said there had been huge public interest in the consultation process which ended in the middle of January and they were working on distilling that information down presently.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-40222313.html

marno21

Route out in September

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40230527.html

Aontachtoir

marno21 wrote: »

Route out in September

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40230527.html

Every additional trickle of good news about this road pleases me. Can't wait until it is finally built.

BloodyBill

The new railway line is important. Should be alot faster aswell. Iv a feeling the days of the big new motorway ls are numbered and this will be one of the last.

Isambard

BloodyBill wrote: »

The new railway line is important. Should be alot faster aswell. Iv a feeling the days of the big new motorway ls are numbered and this will be one of the last.

what new railway line?

Bass Reeves

BloodyBill wrote: »

The new railway line is important. Should be alot faster aswell. Iv a feeling the days of the big new motorway ls are numbered and this will be one of the last.

I am not too sure about last motorway. With access to the Continent now looking more viable by ferry Rosslare will become an important hub. You will definate see access to it by a Motorway from Waterford or further North M9 within 5+ years. This motorway may link all the back to Cahir to link Limerick and Cork. When unification happens by the middle of this century you will see a surge to build a Motorway linking Londanderry back down to the.middle of the Country, maybe even tow one linking it directly to Galway and the second linking it to Dublin .

Isambard

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I am not too sure about last motorway. With access to the Continent now looking more viable by ferry Rosslare will become an important hub. You will definate see access to it by a Motorway from Waterford or further North M9 within 5+ years. This motorway may link all the back to Cahir to link Limerick and Cork. When unification happens by the middle of this century you will see a surge to build a Motorway linking Londanderry back down to the.middle of the Country, maybe even tow one linking it directly to Galway and the second linking it to Dublin .

have to agree except I think the N25 is the favoured corridor to Cork. Maybe a M9 to M7 link for Limerick?

Bass Reeves

Isambard wrote: »

have to agree except I think the N25 is the favoured corridor to Cork. Maybe a M9 to M7 link for Limerick?

N25 turned into a motorway would give a link Cork to Waterford. The M20 would actually give a Limerick Rosslare time faster than present. However the plan is to upgrade the Limerick to Waterford to high class single carrigway. By putting new lane and a half in places and maybe dual carriageway for first and last 10-15 Km you could give very decent travel times from Limerick to Rosslare. Most truck traffic will be circular Galway, Limerick Cork Waterford with just loads heading direct to Rosslare using the Limerick-Tipp-Waterford option

Chris_5339762

Bass Reeves wrote: »

However the plan is to upgrade the Limerick to Waterford to high class single carrigway.

Just to say this isn't decided yet. It could be motorway (unlikely) but most likely 2x2, so dual carriageway.

Bass Reeves

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Just to say this isn't decided yet. It could be motorway (unlikely) but most likely 2x2, so dual carriageway.

The difference between Motorway and 2+2 minimal. As well 2+2 reduces your ability to follow existing route where road is fairly easy realigned. Galway-Limerick showed the lunacy of over specification of a road. High class single carrigway similar to Abbeyfeale- Castleisland or what is going past Knock Airport is more than adequate