M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

CerebralCortex

dubhthach wrote: »

Well that and you consider the time saving going from Cork to Galway, with a combination of M20, shannon tunnel (m7?) and M18/M6 it would be a huge saving.

The biggest benefit would be to Limerick due an expected drop in city centre traffic.

Chris_5339762

jank wrote: »

So what is the latest timeline for tendering, funding, building this road?
Is the route selection done and dusted now?

Route selection is done.

Southern section is looking at a December 2011 contract signing if all goes well (unlikely IMO) with a Q1 2012 (presumably) start. Since the southern section will be half online, it'll be a painfully long build, at least as long as the Nenagh bypass upgrade took, probably 2+ years.

No information on the Northern section yet.

slinky2000

45 min from cork to limerick! That'll be nice! What does it take now 1hr 30?

jank

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Route selection is done.

Southern section is looking at a December 2011 contract signing if all goes well (unlikely IMO) with a Q1 2012 (presumably) start. Since the southern section will be half online, it'll be a painfully long build, at least as long as the Nenagh bypass upgrade took, probably 2+ years.

No information on the Northern section yet.

So where is the money going to come from? PPP?
Would be great if it were built though along with the NRR

limklad

CerebralCortex wrote: »

The biggest benefit would be to Limerick due an expected drop in city centre traffic.

M20 will has no benefit of reducing traffic through Limerick city. The Shannon Tunnel and Limerick South bypass only has that impact irrespective of the M20 in place or lack of it.

limklad

slinky2000 wrote: »

45 min from cork to limerick! That'll be nice! What does it take now 1hr 30?

You clearly have not travelled this road, if you did you find out quickly why traffic is slow.
With 60 Miles in total from Limerick to Cork. 43 Miles of Single Lane road from Patrickwell in Co. Limerick to Blarney in Co. Cork. Parts of it is wide. From Patrickwell in Co. Limerick to the Far side of Croom is wide and the South side of Charleville to Ballyhea is wide. and from Mallow to Cork City is wide in comparsion to rest of the road.

The road is mostly narrow from the Cork side of Croom in Co. Limerick, to the Limerick side of Mallow in County Cork with the exceptions mentioned above. That 25 Miles of narrow road and couple that with been stuck behind slow vehicles where it is difficult in already heavy traffic in this recession to pass out slow traffic, much of you can end up driving at 30 miles an hour or less. Your Travel times add up very quickly. People get frustrated and make stupid decisions when driving, and do stupid overtaking manoeuvres making it worst for the rest of us, and causing accidents then the Journey Time increase dramatically.

The Majority is single lane traffic with some overtaking lanes between Mallow and Blarney.

Roads at both side of Buttevant is a Major reason for huge delays with narrow road and bad bends. It was worst two years ago when there was maintenance works going on the main road in the town.

An Hour and a half is the best time I can make it between cork city centre to Limerick city centre at night, staying within the speed limit. I Hate travelling in Day time to and from Cork. I rather travel to Malin head in Donegal, at least I can relax on that Journey.

KerranJast

Yeah Cork to Limerick during daylight is beyond 2 hours unless you drive like a lunatic once you get to the (very few) wide straights.

Chris_5339762

jank wrote: »

So where is the money going to come from? PPP?
Would be great if it were built though along with the NRR

Two PPPs, northern section and southern section.

NRR from M20 to M8 was originally scheduled to be linked in with the Southern Section however it seems to have been decoupled.

slinky2000

limklad wrote: »

You clearly have not travelled this road

I have indeed, plenty of times! but all at the weekends so I must have been experiencing light traffic flow :P

-Corkie-

slinky2000 wrote: »

I have indeed, plenty of times! but all at the weekends so I must have been experiencing light traffic flow :P

Yes its over 2 hours and imagine its only 100km roughly speaking. Thats an average speed of 50km/h:rolleyes::rolleyes:. Thats pathetic in this day in age. I never realised this till now even though i travel the road regular. Now ill be even more frustrated driving that road.

I hope an irish contractor gets the whole job and not a shower of leuders doing nenagh.

123easy

I dont think you have to worry them leuders wont be getting it anyway! they didnt get too far on Gort-Tuam or Arklow Newlands X

wingfo

:mad:

SARASON wrote: »

Yes its over 2 hours and imagine its only 100km roughly speaking. Thats an average speed of 50km/h:rolleyes::rolleyes:. Thats pathetic in this day in age. I never realised this till now even though i travel the road regular. Now ill be even more frustrated driving that road.

I hope an irish contractor gets the whole job and not a shower of leuders doing nenagh.

Ya give it to an Irish contractor and he will employ eastern europeans to do the job for half nothing, claim millions of €s in EXTRAS, and run over by about a year, probably why theres F A funds left for anything except backhanders.Put the job out for tender fairly we need value for money maybe more projects will be done quicker.

yermanoffthetv

wingfo wrote: »

:mad:


Ya give it to an Irish contractor and he will employ eastern europeans to do the job for half nothing, claim millions of €s in EXTRAS, and run over by about a year, probably why theres F A funds left for anything except backhanders.Put the job out for tender fairly we need value for money maybe more projects will be done quicker.

What about Wills Bros. doin the Gort Crusheen motorway? The pace theyre workin at is almost frightning. I hope they keep them on for the next phase

Chris_5339762

Wills are not in the running for Gort - Tuam.

slinky2000

Is it going to be tolled?

Chris_5339762

Nope, no toll on Gort - Crusheen. ALthough the Gort - Tuam section is going to be built under a PPP there will be no toll.

Road-Hog

Did anyone notice that etenders has recently included a tender advertisement for Ground/Site Investigations contracts for two sections of this project...........


http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=APR146559

and


http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=APR146557

both were placed on April 1st however, so maybe it was an NRA april fool?

Sponge Bob

These only cover the stretch from Buttevant to Cork. No sign of the Cork NRR EIS yet, rather worryingly.

Chris_5339762

Those tenders are for Ground Investigations for half of the Southern Section each.

And from what I can tell from the documents I have, the CNRR has been decoupled. There is no mention in any of the documents about it, not even if you search for the exact words in the several hundred pages of stuff.

There seems to be preliminary movement on the Southern Section, with an anticipated contract sign date of December 2011 and presumably Q1 2012 start. Thats assuming everything goes perfectly.

Nothing at all about the Northern Section yet, but thats probably because they're waiting for Adare to be sorted before they forge ahead with it.

I still think the overall goal (if everything works well) is to have the M20 done by end 2015, which was kind of the original plan anyway.

Zoney

If the southern section goes ahead, it should at least secure the building of the northern section eventually.

For the time being, there being an M20 project *at all* is still up in the air as far as I can see! As such I'm less concerned about how soon it happens, and more concerned with concrete guarantees that it will actually happen at some stage and as motorway!

Chris_5339762

My absolute guess is that similar tenders for the early prep works on the northern section will be about 6 months behind the southern

wingfo

Probably will start 2012 finish 2015/16 nrr different story nothing seems to be happening there, mind you all the Major motherways should finish this year so maybe in 3 years might get it started stranger things have happened.

nordydan

wingfo wrote: »

Probably will start 2012 finish 2015/16 nrr different story nothing seems to be happening there, mind you all the Major motherways should finish this year so maybe in 3 years might get it started stranger things have happened.

Motherway? Is that a road only for women of a child bearing age?

Carawaystick

wingfo wrote: »

Probably will start 2012 finish 2015/16 nrr different story nothing seems to be happening there, mind you all the Major motherways should finish this year so maybe in 3 years might get it started stranger things have happened.

These are the same roads F-fail said'd be done 5 years ago in 2006?
and the bog of doom will be finished this year too?

Stark

nordydan wrote: »

Motherway? Is that a road only for women of a child bearing age?

Well they have parent&child car parking spaces, why not roads...

Chris_5339762

My guess (it is only a guess) is that the M20 will be open by end-2015. That was the original plan and then they can say that the Atlantic Corridor is finished. (Even though that completely contradicts their original plans they can call Cork - Galway an Atlantic Corridor)

Zoney

Less than five years time? I'd call that very optimistic. I would concede that the southern M20 could be built and open by then, although even then I think if I were betting, I'd allow an extra year!

wingfo

wingfo wrote: »

Probably will start 2012 finish 2015/16 nrr different story nothing seems to be happening there, mind you all the Major motherways should finish this year so maybe in 3 years might get it started stranger things have happened.

OPPS:D

Chris_5339762

Zoney wrote: »

Less than five years time? I'd call that very optimistic. I would concede that the southern M20 could be built and open by then, although even then I think if I were betting, I'd allow an extra year!

Possibly, but the plan is to have the M20 south contract signed in December 2011, with a start presumably in early 2012. Thats a three year build, which is likely given the amount of online.

I'm guessing the northern section will be 6 months behind but that should be a bit quicker to build as its mostly offline.

All guesswork though

Tech3

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Possibly, but the plan is to have the M20 south contract signed in December 2011, with a start presumably in early 2012. Thats a three year build, which is likely given the amount of online.

Do you have a link to this one? I thought both sections of the M20 were put at the bottom of the NRA's PPP priority tree? If so then a start next year would be unlikely surely.