20 rep squats.Anybody on it?

Remmy

Hi all.
Over the past few months i have been putting alot of attention to weightlifting and am very pleased with the results so far.This forum is a great help.I'm still scratching at the surface as far as a proper routine to stick with seen as there are loads of great ones out there.Ive tried the 10x10 and 5x5 but havent been on either long enough to make a decision on which is better for me.On that note I'm reading up on that oldschool programme called 'squats and milk' which uses 20 reps of your working weight squats.Can anyone give me their opinion on this?

thanks
Remmy

amazingemmet

Its a great program. I do it the odd time when I want to torture myself. Its one of the few programs where if you follow it to a T you will not be disappointed in the results. Especially if you're light in the leg depts

thirdmantackle

post a link to that old skool program?

Roper

I've done it without the milk bit

Basically, it's good, but get a partner or you might accidentally on purpose count 1 rep as two. Grunt 16...grrruuunt 17.... grrrrunt eh..20! It's a mental exercise after about 12 reps as much as physical.

Oh and I got good results within about 2 weeks, twice per week.

Remmy

thirdmantackle wrote: »

post a link to that old skool program?

Type 20 rep squats into google and there is plenty articles about it.

I'm just wondering if my squat isn't yet large enough would i still benefit from it.Or would i be better with just the 5x5 untill i get a bit stronger.I dont do heavy squatting much so currently i'd only be fit to squat around 60kg at best:o.

EileenG

I've done, hated the workout but loved the result. I don't have a spotter, so used very heavy dumbbells. It was as hard on my hands as on my quads.

The absolute weight doesn't matter, only how heavy it feels to you. Pick the weight where you would normally fail at ten reps, then do 20, with a couple of breaths between each squat.

gabgab

Is this in the starting strength book?

Remmy

Just to report guys I tried a downsized version of this today.

A barbell loaded 20 kg .20 squats
20 deadlifts
20 floorpress's.
20 pushups
Even though the weight wasn't particularly great I felt steamed at the 15 mark on the squats.I'm going to keep going with this routine.What increment should i increase barbell with next time?

thanks

Roper

not convinced the push ups belong. Do you not have a bench?

A good indication of your working weight is 70% of your 1RM. You said you squatted 60 earlier but is that for 1 or reps? If you were crying or vomiting afterwards then you've done it right. It's among the hardest thigs to do with a barbell IMO.

Remmy

Roper wrote: »

not convinced the push ups belong. Do you not have a bench?

A good indication of your working weight is 70% of your 1RM. You said you squatted 60 earlier but is that for 1 or reps? If you were crying or vomiting afterwards then you've done it right. It's among the hardest thigs to do with a barbell IMO.

Yeah i just threw them in afterwards for the laugh.Nope no bench.Looking into welding one up with box section.Want to know someting worse.The Gym i go to doesn't have a squat rack so have to do them free.They have 20 of those mini barbells but no squat rack!:rolleyes:

The 60kg would be around 5x5.It's done with 1 or two minutes rest between sets.I'm still glad i started off light but feel i could manage the 20 reps with another 15kg or so.It wasn't a major effort like i hear it should be.

amazingemmet

Remmy wrote: »

Just to report guys I tried a downsized version of this today.

A barbell loaded 20 kg .20 squats
20 deadlifts
20 floorpress's.
20 pushups
Even though the weight wasn't particularly great I felt steamed at the 15 mark on the squats.I'm going to keep going with this routine.What increment should i increase barbell with next time?

thanks

That doesn't look like the proper supersquat program at all.

Remmy

amazingemmet wrote: »

That doesn't look like the proper supersquat program at all.

your right its not.

Reyman

Remmy wrote: »

.The Gym i go to doesn't have a squat rack so have to do them free.They have 20 of those mini barbells but no squat rack!.

60 Kg is a fair weight to throw up on the back of your shoulders if you're not a heavy lifter !

Transform

I used the 20reps squats for about 3-4years starting at 60kg and working up to 115kg for 20reps.

Do it once a week, every other exercise after 6months doing 20reps squats feels easy in terms of intensity. Just make sure your going low enough on every rep

If more people did this as opposed to cable cross overs, leg extensions etc they would be in farrr better shape.

20rep lunges on each leg would be my female equivalent

kevpants

Transform wrote: »

115kg for 20reps.

A little bit of puke came into my mouth when I read that. I'll bet you actually cried at the end of that.

Transform

After 3-4 years of doing that i just couldn't take it mentally as i was thinking about doing the session 2-3 days before it!!

However, what i learned in terms of how far i could push myself was priceless.

gabgab

Sorry could someone post up what the actual correct workout for this is please or is it 20 squats with 70% of your 1rm

Boston

Is it just the one set?

Relevant

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/irontamer5.htm

There is a sample program there. I don't know how good it is though??

Jimmy Bottlehead

http://www.leehayward.com/squats.htm

brianthebard

Anyone know what the purpose of the pullovers after the squats is?

Jimmy Bottlehead

brianthebard wrote: »

Anyone know what the purpose of the pullovers after the squats is?

To stretch the ribcage and apparently enhance chest size.

This program sounds awesome - I'm gonna do it in a few weeks.

brianthebard

Oh dear, they aren't still selling that old chestnut? It does sounds like a great programme, although I don't know if there's any merit to the pull overs, maybe they could be substitued for something else.

amazingemmet

There's merit to the pullovers. Try them and then you'll know why

Transform

Its basic and abreviated training for real world people.

The program i used for years involved

Squats 20reps for 1 set (warm-ups don't count)
Bench press or its variation i.e. press ups, incline press dips etc 8-10reps for 2 sets
Stiff leg deadlift 15reps for 2 sets
Chin or lat pull down 10reps for 2 sets
Biceps curls - 12reps for 2 sets

Finish with 10-15mins of core work and shoulder work i.e. rotator cuff etc

It looks too short but when its done with plenty of intensity there is enough for most trainees. The key is to not give up when its starts getting hard and to progressively increase the weights on most exercises in the smallest increments every week

I did that program 2 days a week and still use a somewhat similar program today just doing 2 different programs on my two hard weights sessions per week (i also do 2 easy sessions most weeks on the weights using lighter weights and totally different exercies).

Most people keep changing what they are doing wayyyy to often. They see a program or exericise that they think is going to give faster results and change to doing that for a while.

The quote that has stayed with me for all my training over the past 11years is one i read from hardgainer back in aug 1999 - "Increasing load on the bar very slightly every week without any perceived increase in training intensity is the GOLDEN FLEECE of training".

The_Bullman

Excuse my ignorance but.. Doesn't conjugate training feature these high rep exercises as part of the workout makeup?

amazingemmet

The_Bullman wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance but.. Doesn't conjugate training feature these high rep exercises as part of the workout makeup?

Yes but not as a rep pause style more as a repetition effort type exercise.

paddymorrison

Tried squatting 60kgs with 20 reps (1rm=110kg) yesterday. Can't believe how hard it was!

Reyman

paddymorrison wrote: »

Tried squatting 60kgs with 20 reps (1rm=110kg) yesterday. Can't believe how hard it was!

I think you should strictly be using your 10RM limit i.e. around 75% of your 1 RM figure or 82.5Kg.

You've been taking it easy !!

Hanley

Transform wrote: »

20rep lunges on each leg would be my female equivalent

I'm guessing these wouldnt be done with a barbell?? I've been doing a lot of lunges recently and even 10-12 reps per legs leaves my arms tingling and asleep. I can't imagine 20.

How heavy were ya when you did 115 x20? That's some good going!

Transform

I was 83kg at the time and yes i would recommend using a barbell

Celtic67

Could you incorporate the 20 rep squats into a split routine with one leg day per week or would it more optimal to include them a full body routine of say 3 days a week?

Transform

Use it as part of a full body program and either start or finish on it.

you must aim to increase the weight on the bar a tiny bit every week

d-gal

Haha i sort of threw it in for the laugh today for my leg session 2day!

4 warm up sets (reps 10/12)
1 set of 20, 90kg
Lunges 3 x 12 (each leg)
RDL 3 x 12
Calf raises 5x12

The gym is upstairs..I literally fell down the last couple of steps

Good times :rolleyes:

brianthebard

Surely you shouldn't be able to do lunges afterwards?

Hanley

brianthebard wrote: »

Surely you shouldn't be able to do lunges afterwards?

Yeah, if you pushed the squats, not a hope you'd be doing more quad work afterwards. That being said I did do 110x20 and deadlift afterwards, but that was a very easy set of 20. I'd imagine i'd be on the floor crying if I used 75%.

d-gal

No not 75%, 60/65% more like it. Still hurt like hell and I was in ibiza for the last week so felt like a good punishment

brianthebard

Didn't mean to suggest it wasn't hard work, I'm not sure I could do 20 reps of 90kg atm, just that if you are going to try and get the benefits of the programme you have to use the right percentage. You should be falling apart afterwards, not doing another 20+ reps on each leg.

Transform

really depends on how long he took to do the set of squats, depth on squat and the wight used on the lunges.

I would not be surpried to move on to other exercises after as it totally depends on your conditioning i.e. fitness, if you regularly do cardio then after a few minutes you will be fairly ok but if not then yes you will be shattered.

once i was using over 100kg doing 20rep squats it was taking me about 3-4mins to do the full 20reps i.e. do 5reps breathe, 3 breathe, 3 breathe, 2 breathe, 2 breathe, 1 1 1 1 etc all the way after that.

It teaches you how far you can push yourself

brianon

Whoever said its your 10rm for 20reps is right....at least thats what I was lead to believe. Mark Rippetoe said it anyway. Good enough for me.

Tried 60kg for 20 reps. Was very tough but I didn;t know my 10rm so I prob should of gone higher. 1rm = 130kg. so 91kg would be 70% = No chance

d-gal

I find my recovery fairly good thats how i survived, seriously tough tho, it was more for a bit of challenge than anything

Transform

now all you have to do is train every session like the 20rep squat session!!

Hanley

Transform wrote: »

really depends on how long he took to do the set of squats, depth on squat and the wight used on the lunges.

I would not be surpried to move on to other exercises after as it totally depends on your conditioning i.e. fitness, if you regularly do cardio then after a few minutes you will be fairly ok but if not then yes you will be shattered.

once i was using over 100kg doing 20rep squats it was taking me about 3-4mins to do the full 20reps i.e. do 5reps breathe, 3 breathe, 3 breathe, 2 breathe, 2 breathe, 1 1 1 1 etc all the way after that.

It teaches you how far you can push yourself

That's true I suppose. I ripped thru my 20 reppers recently, like 10, 5 and 5 in about a minute to a minute and a half without too much trouble so obviously I wasn't pushing to the max.

I can see being in a good state cardio wise as being a HUGE advantage.

Transform, or anyone else, did you notice you pins and needles in your hands, shoudlers or elbows while you were doing em? I struggle to keep the bar on my back without anything locking up for 90 seconds, I can't imagine trying to spend 3 minutes on a set.

Transform

i have't noticed that really but its been a while since i have done them

You might just need to whip out the foam roller and roll shoulders and lats more to help with that

newby.204

ive been pr!ck!in around with weights for awhile now and i want to give it a serious go!!! just have one question though givin that the 5x5 prog is practically gospel round here for beginners, would i be better off doing a 6wk cycle of 5x5 then trying the 20rep prog for 6wks or vice versa?? my goal is pure strength gain by the way im not too concerned with how ill look or mass gains or anything, id be happy looking the same as long as my strength improves!!

Roper

Hanley wrote: »

Transform, or anyone else, did you notice you pins and needles in your hands, shoudlers or elbows while you were doing em? I struggle to keep the bar on my back without anything locking up for 90 seconds, I can't imagine trying to spend 3 minutes on a set.

Not pins and needles but I lost concentration or just zoned out at about 15 once and before I knew it the bar was almost halfway down my back and near the crook of my elbows!

Transform

newby.204 wrote: »

ive been pr!ck!in around with weights for awhile now and i want to give it a serious go!!! just have one question though givin that the 5x5 prog is practically gospel round here for beginners, would i be better off doing a 6wk cycle of 5x5 then trying the 20rep prog for 6wks or vice versa?? my goal is pure strength gain by the way im not too concerned with how ill look or mass gains or anything, id be happy looking the same as long as my strength improves!!

does not really matter that much though i would recommed starting with 20rep squats first and then switching after a 3-4month period as it will give you a good base.

As with all things important keep a journal on every session you lift and increase the weight on the bar every week in the smallest increments possible.

You always know those that are going to make progress in the gym by the sign of whether or not they have any small plates or magnetic discs on their weights. Jumping ANY weight up by more than 2-3lbs (1-1.5kg) per week is farrrr too much and will lead to a plateau sooner.

"Wow your lifting 36kg on your dumbbell bench press and doing 100kg on your squat and deadlift for how long now?" - "well 2 years actually"

If your not getting stronger then your getting weaker so concentrate on logging good solid workouts with progressive poundages or kilos for the metric people!

Rocket!

Transform wrote: »

If your not getting stronger then your getting weaker

If your not first your last!:D

Would this be a good complementary exercise to 5 sets x 8 squats? As in, 5x8 predominately 3 times a week, then one session of 20 reps? What sort of percentage of your usual max would be best for the 20s - 60%??

Hanley

Rocket! wrote: »

If your not first your last!:D

Would this be a good complementary exercise to 5 sets x 8 squats? As in, 5x8 predominately 3 times a week, then one session of 20 reps? What sort of percentage of your usual max would be best for the 20s - 60%??

"20 rep squats" is pretty much a program/training style all of it's own. Randall Strossen lays it all out in his book "Super Squats". Basically the idea is that 2x (I think) a week you pick a weight you could do 10 continuous reps with, and do 20 instead. You do this by taking 2 or 3 deep breaths (or however many it takes...) between each rep, the bar stays on your back the whole time tho. You follow it up with pullovers and some other exercises, but the core idea is that you pick a weight that's an absolute balls out effort to rep for 20 and try to add to it each week.

Around 60-75% is what most people tend to use as far as I know.... I've been doing what you're suggesting tho recently, just finishing off my squatting with a set of 20. Can't say I've seen any huge carry over from it, but it does pump my legs up nicely and get my heart going.

Roper wrote: »

Not pins and needles but I lost concentration or just zoned out at about 15 once and before I knew it the bar was almost halfway down my back and near the crook of my elbows!

Must just be because I'm a Fact Hunt so....

Roper

Hanley wrote: »

Must just be because I'm a Fact Hunt so....

Or cos you're moving more weight than me!

Rocket!

Hanley wrote: »

"20 rep squats" is pretty much a program/training style all of it's own. Randall Strossen lays it all out in his book "Super Squats". Basically the idea is that 2x (I think) a week you pick a weight you could do 10 continuous reps with, and do 20 instead. You do this by taking 2 or 3 deep breaths (or however many it takes...) between each rep, the bar stays on your back the whole time tho. You follow it up with pullovers and some other exercises, but the core idea is that you pick a weight that's an absolute balls out effort to rep for 20 and try to add to it each week.

Around 60-75% is what most people tend to use as far as I know.... I've been doing what you're suggesting tho recently, just finishing off my squatting with a set of 20. Can't say I've seen any huge carry over from it, but it does pump my legs up nicely and get my heart going.

Gave this a go this morning. 61kg x 20. Was pretty alrite, thought it was going to be tougher. I went as deep as I could to make up for the lack of weight. Have to admit, I was shattered after it, felt like more like a Cardio thing than anything else!
Was tempted to give it another set at the end of my workout, but a tough round of stiff deads had me on the floor!

All in all, it seems good if you put the effort in, and some of those sample workouts giving early on in the thread look promising. Id say if you ate like a horse on some of those programmes you'd make great gains.