Atheists on TV/in movies!

Dades

Wicknight wrote: »

sorry, been re-reading Archangel recently.

Great book!
I assume you've read Fatherland?

Obni

I really don't understand why the Golden Compass is held up as an atheist book/movie. Yes, it attacks established religions and authoritarian dogma, but it also uses a mutated pagan form of dualism to portray each character with their soul or 'daemon'. Now, I'm not attacking the idea of the external animal-soul directly; these books are intended to delight and entertain both the young and not-so-young, and the idea of a soul as an external object that takes on an animal form (in some crude reflection of the character's nature) is an ingenius vehicle to transport eager young readers. However, to then class the movie as atheist is I believe a misnomer.
Etymolgically, an atheist is about holding to the position that there is no god. The term does not necessarily prohibit the belief in a soul or other spiritual dimension. Most atheists I have spoken with would have no belief in the supernatural, which would cover the ideas in the Pullman books, and it just so happens that the 'biggest' supernatural idea that they reject is god; and so that is how they are defined by societies for which god is the 'biggest' accepted supernatural idea.

Zombrex

Dades wrote: »

Great book!
I assume you've read Fatherland?

I did, read it when I was in Crete about 15 years go because it was left in the vila we were staying in, and I saw about 5 minutes of Crete because I spend the whole holiday reading it cover to cover twice :pac:

Must get Harris' new(er) books about Rome

Myksyk

Saw an episode of CSI the night before last where Grisham and one of the female characters were discussing God. She was a confirmed atheist by the sound of it but Grisham was a little on the fence saying he felt the need for 'a little of both'.

5uspect

Malcolm Reynolds in Firefly is, iirc, a non-believer, anti religious type.

Shepard: Do you mind if I say grace?
Mal: Only if you say it out loud.

Zombrex

Myksyk wrote: »

Saw an episode of CSI the night before last where Grisham and one of the female characters were discussing God. She was a confirmed atheist by the sound of it but Grisham was a little on the fence saying he felt the need for 'a little of both'.

If the writers made Grisham come out as a full atheist 50 million Americans stop watching :pac:

5uspect

And don't forget Admiral Adama

Dades

Obni wrote: »

I really don't understand why the Golden Compass is held up as an atheist book/movie. Yes, it attacks established religions and authoritarian dogma, but it also uses a mutated pagan form of dualism to portray each character with their soul or 'daemon'.

Agreed.

The real kerfuffle surrounding the book stems from the anti organised religion sentiment. They are the evil ones taking children's souls and also responsible for turning "God" into a tool for their purposes. Of course the fact that God is discovered to be impotent (and mortal), rather than omnipotent doesn't help matters.

Much of the "atheist" label on the books probably stems from Pullman's own brazen admission to being one.

Zombrex

Dades wrote: »

Much of the "atheist" label on the books probably stems from Pullman's own brazen admission to being one.

The swine!

hairyheretic

Obni wrote: »

I really don't understand why the Golden Compass is held up as an atheist book/movie. Yes, it attacks established religions and authoritarian dogma, but it also uses a mutated pagan form of dualism to portray each character with their soul or 'daemon'. Now, I'm not attacking the idea of the external animal-soul directly; these books are intended to delight and entertain both the young and not-so-young, and the idea of a soul as an external object that takes on an animal form (in some crude reflection of the character's nature) is an ingenius vehicle to transport eager young readers.

This might be where he got the idea from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fylgja

A Fylgja (literally: she who follows; plural: Fylgjur) is, according to Scandinavian mythology, a supernatural creature which accompanies a person. It usually appears in the form of an animal, and as it was believed to correspond to a person's character or way of living, it can be conceived of as a form of a person's soul, separate from the body and thus not identical with it. Consequently, a warlike man might have a bird raven, a horse, a wolf or a bear for a fylgja. The Fylgja commonly appears during sleep, but the sagas relate that they could appear while a person is awake as well, and that seeing one's Fylgja is an omen of one's impending death. However, when Fylgjur appear in the form of women, they are then supposedly guardian spirits for people or clans.

Zamboni

Jodie Foster in Contact. Ellie I think is her name.

But then it is written by Sagan.:)

Oh and maybe Jack in Lost.

Malari

Malari wrote: »

Just thought of another one - Jodie Foster's character in Contact. They didn't want her going in the spaceship they built because she was an atheist and didn't represent the views of most Amercians :pac: I think she's an atheist in real life too.

Zamboni wrote: »

Jodie Foster in Contact. Ellie I think is her name.

But then it is written by Sagan.:)

Oh and maybe Jack in Lost.

Already got Contact Uh-oh, we are running out of characters...should we broaden our topic to books? I think a couple of Ian McEwan's characters are atheist.

Zamboni

Malari wrote: »

Already got Contact Uh-oh, we are running out of characters...should we broaden our topic to books? I think a couple of Ian McEwan's characters are atheist.

Oops. Didn't read page 1.

I would argue the Tyler Durden in Fight Club is an Atheist.

Dave!

Zamboni wrote: »

Oops. Didn't read page 1.

I would argue the Tyler Durden in Fight Club is an Atheist.

Really? I can't remember any explicit references to religion, but then it has been ages since I saw Fight Club...

Obni

Bond, James Bond. :cool:

http://www.amazon.com/James-Bond-Philosophy-Popular-Culture/dp/0812696077

PDN

Obni wrote: »

I really don't understand why the Golden Compass is held up as an atheist book/movie. Yes, it attacks established religions and authoritarian dogma, but it also uses a mutated pagan form of dualism to portray each character with their soul or 'daemon'. Now, I'm not attacking the idea of the external animal-soul directly; these books are intended to delight and entertain both the young and not-so-young, and the idea of a soul as an external object that takes on an animal form (in some crude reflection of the character's nature) is an ingenius vehicle to transport eager young readers. However, to then class the movie as atheist is I believe a misnomer.
Etymolgically, an atheist is about holding to the position that there is no god. The term does not necessarily prohibit the belief in a soul or other spiritual dimension. Most atheists I have spoken with would have no belief in the supernatural, which would cover the ideas in the Pullman books, and it just so happens that the 'biggest' supernatural idea that they reject is god; and so that is how they are defined by societies for which god is the 'biggest' accepted supernatural idea.

I think the reason it was seen as a bit of a standard bearer for atheism was because Pullman himself has expressed his distaste for the way in which C.S.Lewis used the Narnia books to propagate Christian values - particularly to children. I read at least one interview where he appeared to be putting forward his books as an atheist alternative to Narnia.

I was up in Belfast on Tuesday and heard an interview with Pullman on BBC Five Live. He was saying the Golden Compass film did well in many countries but bombed in the US - so there is some doubt as to whether the studios will make any sequels. I tried to watch the movie on a transatlantic flight recently but fell asleep halfway through. To be fair to Pullman, though, that may be attributed more to the excellent Merlot that Air France serve in business class (free upgrade before anyone starts railing about Christian extravagance) rather than to any shortcomings in the film's plot.

Splendour

Dave! wrote: »

Is that film any good? I [aquired it by legitimate means], but haven't gotten around to watching it yet

Great film but the soundtrack is even better...

Ass

Wasn't Luke from Cool Hand Luke an athiest?

Googled it and found this, which is pretty interesting. Especially since it was filmed in the 60's.

http://teachers.sduhsd.k12.ca.us/sfarris/Files/Fiction%20and%20Film/Cool%20Hand%20LukePDF.pdf

PDN

I recently watched a mini-series on the BBC about the Moors Murderers. It began with Ian Brady arguing his atheism which, based on his reading of Marquis de Sade, opened the door to a relativistic morality where anything goes.

I don't know how accurately this reflected Brady's thinking - but I remember thinking that if I was an atheist and watching that I would feel pretty pissed off at the producers for making such a link.

The Mad Hatter

5uspect wrote: »

Malcolm Reynolds in Firefly is, iirc, a non-believer, anti religious type.

Shepard: Do you mind if I say grace?
Mal: Only if you say it out loud.

He started out religious, but lost his faith along with everything else.

'You're welcome on my boat, Preacher. But God ain't.'

The Mad Hatter

Coupla more to add: Doctor Cox from Scrubs - there was a whole episode on this.

Octavian Caesar from Rome. (not a fictional character, but fictionalised.)

Dave!

Ronnie from the Shield says "I dont believe in god" in an episode in season 7

Watch the Shield. It rocks.

bnt

lugha wrote: »

Frasier (and Niles) in Frasier aren't but should be imo.

I think there's some vague reference to Frasier being Christian at one point, but that's all I can remember. I think it came up in the episode where he was asked to speak at his son's Bar Mitzvah (his ex-wife being Jewish), and

gives some kind of blessing in Klingon instead of Hebrew

.

Wikipedia has a list that includes a couple of my favourites. There's Dr, Becker (Ted Danson) from Becker, and then there's Arnold Vinick (Alan Alda) from The West Wing. A Republican Presidential Candidate who did not believe and refused to play the Religion card? Only on TV! In this clip, Vinick has just come out of the White House, after a discussion with the (Catholic) President about religion, over ice cream. The full discussion is here, but this short clip sums up his position:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKBJJ3Kh5Q4

There may be many more characters that are atheists, but we'd never actually know unless the subject comes up in the movie or show in question. For example, I know two of the main characters on Friends were culturally Jewish, but IIRC one (Ross) had a civil wedding (1), then a Las Vegas wedding (2), then a ceremony in a half-demolished church in England (3). The other one (Monica) got married by Joey, after he bought a license off "those Internet people". :cool:

The Mad Hatter

In Battlestar Galactica: William Adama starts as one, but confesses to believing in fate towards the end.

Gaius Baltar starts as an atheist, but has a revalation of God in the first series and

sets up his own religion in the last

.

The Cylon Number One is an atheist, and (surprise, surprise) is the primary evildoer in the show.

According to that Wiki, Lee Adama's an atheist too, but I don't remember any specific mention of that in the show.

I love that show, but ffs can we please have a series or film some time where the people who are atheists, intellectuals, into classical music or English aren't evil?

CerebralCortex

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

In Battlestar Galactica: William Adama starts as one, but confesses to believing in fate towards the end.

Gaius Baltar starts as an atheist, but has a revalation of God in the first series and

sets up his own religion in the last

.

The Cylon Number One is an atheist, and (surprise, surprise) is the primary evildoer in the show.

According to that Wiki, Lee Adama's an atheist too, but I don't remember any specific mention of that in the show.

I love that show, but ffs can we please have a series or film some time where the people who are atheists, intellectuals, into classical music or English aren't evil?

I used to love that show until the last series.

The Mad Hatter

bnt wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKBJJ3Kh5Q4

Man...actually a very good speech. Wonder if it'd really work...

Otacon

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Man...actually a very good speech. Wonder if it'd really work...

No, he lost to Matt Santos.

5uspect

CerebralCortex wrote: »

I used to love that show until the last series.

It was going downhill since midway through Season 3.

Calibos

I'd like to tie the Vinick WestWing Vid with the the Film Contact and with the Obama administration. Vinick says if you ask a politician about religion, you are asking to be lied to. I have a feeling that Obama who's mother is Atheist and who seems to be a very logical fellow is doing just that. TBH I think its actually morally right to do it assuming he wasn't after the presidency for powers sake but to actually do so some good and make the changes he really believed were for the greater good. "Hey, if I have to pretend to be a 'trubleiver' to get elected so I can implement these much needed reforms, then living a lie is very much the lesser of two evils" (lying or doing nothing).

As for Contact, the guy who was picked first but was blown up with the first device by the fundamentalist. He came across as an atheist too. The difference between him and Eliie was that he was prepared to fake religious faith to get picked for the trip whereas Ellie wasn't.

The differance between him and Obama is that he did it for selfish reasons while Obama is doing it for non selfish reasons (we hope! )

Dave!

That's optimistic Calibos...

I stop thinking Obama is just 'pretending' to be religious when, after he was elected, he had 2 (read: TWO!) preachers speak at his inauguration.

Surely 1 is enough!