Who will use the new M3?

_Kaiser_

BrianD wrote: »

Bus Eireann operate a very good service on the N3. The route 109 has high frequency of service with moderb buses (some of them the hew high capacity type). It is subject to being stuck in traffic like everybody else but least you have the advantage of the bus lanes. So it would be unreasonable of you to state that there is no alternative.

Leaving aside the proposed rail link to Navan, I suggest that you check out the bus service as that is the only efficient form of public transport that will ever be availble to service the sprawl that exists north of Dublin.

I've used the BE service to Navan and it's nothing special I assure you. When I was living in Blanch, I'd first have to walk to the N3 (a good 20 mins+ walk) and stand around at the bus stop beside the roundabout up to another 15/20 mins before it'd arrive as of course the timetables only tell you when it leaves the city centre, not when it gets to your actual stop (not even the general area like Dublin Bus timetables), something the Dutch managed back in the 80s I might add!

When you finally get on the bus you may/may not (seemed random to me) end up going through Clonee before you finally rejoined the N3 and got to your destination maybe 45 mins later.

I can do Blanch to Navan door-to-door around 8.15am in about 40 mins by car - and that's obeying the speed limits.

The return trip is no picnic either as when you again finally get the bus (frequently delayed/missing as with all CIE services) you then have to hike in from the Blanchardstown roundabout, or further up the road at the slip road for the SC.

Then there's the cost. It's not cheap - no doubt to pay for the aforementioned shiny big new Scania buses they're buying every year. As my girlfriend recently discovered, it was €5.10 one-way for a child from Virginia to Navan. Contrast that to a maximum of €0.95 for any distance on Dublin Bus!

No, if this is "efficent", "reliable" and "cost-effective" public transport, then I'll/we'll stick with the car thanks!

DWCommuter

Who will use the M3? :D:D:D Hang on until I stop pissing myself!

How about every car commuting Dublin based worker. The M3 is like no other tolled road (M50 excepted) in Ireland. It is truely our first tolled radial surburban motorway. It has a captive audience and thats the best you can get. People will pay one of the tolls at least. Thats why the Dunboyne/Pace railway will require a toll to access and thats why Pace - Navan will never open. (can't threaten the main source of the toll....NAVAN!)

If they ever make another XFiles movie, it should focus on Fianna Fail.:D

Sometimes Im surprised by you guys.:eek:

testicle

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Actually they did:

He suggested they move, he didn't specify where.

_Kaiser_

testicle wrote: »

He suggested they move, he didn't specify where.

Well presumably he meant closer to work in fairness - in this case Dublin :rolleyes:

Anyway, back on topic I'll probably use the M3 a fair bit, but I'm in the fortunate position where I'll be able to claim a lot of the tolls back through my employer.

Those who can't, as I've already mentioned, will continue to use what's now known as the N3 but I wouldn't expect a massive shift onto the bus or people moving house somehow!

gazzer

Anybody know if the M3 is behind/on or ahead of schedule? I will definatly use it when it opens.

_Kaiser_

gazzer wrote: »

Anybody know if the M3 is behind/on or ahead of schedule? I will definatly use it when it opens.

Last I heard it was ahead of schedule. It's due to be completed in 2010 but may open next year instead.

Gurgle

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

As my girlfriend recently discovered, it was €5.10 one-way for a child from Virginia to Navan.

€9.30 one-way from navan to dublin, for a 48km trip.
The only way anyone would commute by bus is if they make it even dearer to drive, hence the crazy tolls.

amacachi wrote:

Yes, a 70km commute could take 45 minutes, in an ideal world of travelling at the speed limit the eintire time, assuming that the place of employment is right on the main road.

No, it would take 35 minutes on a real motorway, if they build one (thats a whole different arguement, lets wait and see).
45 minutes assumes you live a couple of miles from the M3 and work a couple of miles from the M50.

ardmacha

No, it would take 35 minutes on a real motorway,

it would be a serious motorway where you could guarantee averaging the speed limit at rush hour, which country has such roads?

Alun

ardmacha wrote: »

it would be a serious motorway where you could guarantee averaging the speed limit at rush hour, which country has such roads?

I was going to say that! I've lived, worked, and commuted in two countries where they do indeed have 'proper' motorways. In the Netherlands I can guarantee you you'd not reach those kinds of speeds at rush hour around any of the major cities, and some of the jams around say, Rotterdam or Amsterdam would make the M50 look like a walk in the park. They don't even bother reporting motorway traffic jams on the radio that are shorter than a predetermined limit (about 5km IIRC), or are in any of the 'usual' places, and they still report a good number of them, especially on a Friday evening. The grass isn't always greener etc. etc.

At one time I was doing a commute from near Eindhoven to Rotterdam that was about 110km. It would take me about 1.5-2 hours in the mornings and anything up to 3 hours if I was unlucky on the way home in the evenings.

ardmacha

The 401 in Toronto is surely a "serious" motorway, with 18 lanes. However it experiences congestion and you can't whizz along on it at 120 kmh at rush hour.

Gurgle

Alun wrote: »

In the Netherlands I can guarantee you you'd not reach those kinds of speeds at rush hour around any of the major cities, and some of the jams around say, Rotterdam or Amsterdam would make the M50 look like a walk in the park.

Thats Rotterdam and amsterdam which between them make up an urban sprawl with nearly 7 million people living & working there?

Travelling from Eindhoven to Rotterdam, do you ever pass through countryside or is it all built up?

On Dublin's scale, the M50 passes through the suburbs, Navan is 30km of fields away. We've just got used to traffic jams in the countryside.

This wonderful new M3 is going to make very little difference to anyone going further south than Blanchardstown. They'll save some time as they won't have to go through Kells, Navan and Dunshaughlin, but the toll bridges will cancel most of the saving.

There will be a longer queue back from the M50, and everyone commuting will get to join it quicker.

The M50 upgrade, along with barrier-free tolling might get things moving a bit faster, but that would have had the same effect if the M3 was never built.

The money would have been better spent bringing a rail link to Navan.

BluntGuy

I'm getting a bit frustrated with the number of toll roads being built in this small country. I understand that we need PPP schemes to help fund these projects, but it is a bit annoying knowing that you'll have to pay twice to drive from Dublin to most other major cities.

As for the M3, I don't understand why it's being built to be honest. Many motorists will probably opt to avoid the tolls and go back onto the existing N3, which defeats the purpose of the road entirely. A railway upgrade, as many people have suggested, would have been far better.

Alun

Gurgle wrote: »

Travelling from Eindhoven to Rotterdam, do you ever pass through countryside or is it all built up?

Actually, surprisingly, yes you do, quite a bit of it. For a country that's a quarter of the size of Ireland with over 4 times the population, population centres are much more concentrated than here.

There's about 20km of relatively open countryside (farms) between the outskirts of Eindhoven and the next city en route, Tilburg, for example, about the same between there and the next city, Breda, and about the same again until you get to the outskirts of the Rotterdam conurbation, well Dordrecht actually.

Take a look on Google Earth

D'Peoples Voice

In light of this
I just hope they stop upgrading the N2, and redirect the M3/N3 towards the new A5 Aughnacloy/Derry road!

Colm R

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

In light of this
I just hope they stop upgrading the N2, and redirect the M3/N3 towards the new A5 Aughnacloy/Derry road!

I wish they built a spur from the M2 via Kenstown to Navan and Kells. Would have skipped a fairly well known hill as well!!!

All too late now though.


On topic, if the boom continued, the M3 would have no problem, and most people would have had no problem spending the money on it. But the boom has failed and todays figures hightligting Meath with the highest rising rate of unemployment again, for July show that the M3 could potentially be a white elephant. But the road builders are not worried, because they have a guaranteed income.

At 11.20 for a return journey - simply too much.

BluntGuy

Are we sure the Indo is correct on the toll price though.

I mean, I remember the Indo quoting the route as a "112 km M3 roadway" or something 2 or 3 years ago, so their facts aren't always... accurate.

bauderline

Is this road still ahead of schedule ? I heard that they had slowed down construction a bit.....

I travel from Virginia to Blanch, looking at the road plans it should be possible to skip off at blundelstown and take the old well known back route into Blanch via skyrne and rathoath. That should cut out the mail bottlenecks of Kells and Navan... should keep costs down a bit....

munchkin_utd

Colm R wrote: »

snip.....
On topic, if the boom continued, the M3 would have no problem, and most people would have had no problem spending the money on it. But the boom has failed and todays figures hightligting Meath with the highest rising rate of unemployment again, for July show that the M3 could potentially be a white elephant. ... snip

In my thread from March '08 :
M3 - destined to be ghost road?
I was putting the same question 14 months ago.
(although I wasnt predicting chronic unemployment but more general toll avoidance)

Since then you have levies and tax rises and unemployment heading to 17%.
Well off 2 income families with 7 figure incomes are now 1 income families trying to balance the books.
The birth rate in Ireland is exploding, so another cost facing many households.

1200 euro a year (5 euro return from Kells) in tolls will be too much to swallow for some and I still wouldnt be surprised to see the M3 chronically underused once it opens. If anything, 14 months later I am more convinced of it.

By just driving down the old road, you have 1200 euro to put to your mortgage, groceries bill, nappies bill or whatever. And I am sure many will also think this way.

AlekSmart

By just driving down the old road, you have 1200 euro to put to your mortgage, groceries bill, nappies bill or whatever. And I am sure many will also think this way.

Or putting it another way......It is depriving another Fianna Fáil approved multinational operator of that €1200....or at least it would have if the world was as it should be......

Sadly the Dempsey Gang are so far into this latest dirty little con that they`d probably don masks and ride black stallions whilst holding you up and rifling your childs piggy-bank to keep their rancid little empire afloat :mad:

IIMII

bauderline wrote: »

I travel from Virginia to Blanch, looking at the road plans it should be possible to skip off at blundelstown and take the old well known back route into Blanch via skyrne and rathoath. That should cut out the mail bottlenecks of Kells and Navan... should keep costs down a bit....

That's a hard drive using those backroads, you'd be worn out and the car wouldn't thank you for it either. I'd drive to Dunshaughlin, skip onto the new R125 and in the Trim road to the Blackbull. Realistically, I can see myself using it going in and coming home via the existing road

bauderline

IIMII wrote: »

That's a hard drive using those backroads, you'd be worn out and the car wouldn't thank you for it either. I'd drive to Dunshaughlin, skip onto the new R125 and in the Trim road to the Blackbull. Realistically, I can see myself using it going in and coming home via the existing road

... been doing it every week day for the last five years going into work, my drive home would really put the jeebees on you, instead of turning back onto the N3 I head on up towards Yellow Furze, take the old bridge over the boyne head up past Strathallen and take the back road into Kells. The journey time is around the same, I just can't be bothered with the traffic in Dunshaughlin and Navan especially during term time...

Looking forward to the Motorway though so that I have the option of a straightforward cruise into work whenever I feel the need.

One crucial point though is that the cost of the tolls would be offset somewhat by savings in fuel that you will get from nice constant motorway driving. If anyone doesn't think that it would be significant for a lot of vehicles they are talking out of their arse.....

My 2 cents...