Buying Meat

Degsy

I think nobody with a social conscience should buy meat from a supermarket.The quality is appalling and its putting smaller retailers out of business.Buyt from a butcher instead,if you're bulk-buying chicken fillets for example or steaks,they'll usually give you a discount as they come to know you.
Farmed salmon cutlets-destroy the seas leave the stuff well alone.

Brian?

Degsy wrote: »

I think nobody with a social conscience should buy meat from a supermarket.The quality is appalling and its putting smaller retailers out of business.Buyt from a butcher instead,if you're bulk-buying chicken fillets for example or steaks,they'll usually give you a discount as they come to know you.
Farmed salmon cutlets-destroy the seas leave the stuff well alone.

You're going to wrong supermarket if the meat quality is bad. I will never ever buy meat in Tesco again, but the meat in my local Supervalue is superb.

Roper

briankeating wrote: »

You're going to wrong supermarket if the meat quality is bad. I will never ever buy meat in Tesco again, but the meat in my local Supervalue is superb.

Supervalu owners tend to be franchisees rather than branches in a chain, so they may well be working in co op with a butcher or using local sources.

Macha

Degsy wrote: »

I think nobody with a social conscience should buy meat from a supermarket.The quality is appalling and its putting smaller retailers out of business.Buyt from a butcher instead,if you're bulk-buying chicken fillets for example or steaks,they'll usually give you a discount as they come to know you.
Farmed salmon cutlets-destroy the seas leave the stuff well alone.

You're totally right. Does anyone have recommendations of a butchers in Dublin? There aren't that many left, are there?

The other thing about supermarkets is that they put a huge amount of pressure on farmers to cut corners & make food as cheap as it possibly can be. Cue mono-cultures, increased use of pesticides, reduced biodiversity & an emptying out of rural Ireland. Bad for everyone...except Tesco.

Another tip is buying whole chicken works out cheaper than fillets. If you roast one on a Sunday night, you can get all the meat out of it & use it for sandwiches, salads, risottos, fajitas..etc. That way you can afford to get a better quality, higher welfare chicken.

Brian?

Where are you in Dublin

Macha

Pretty central with a bike & don't mind going out of my way for a good butchers

Degsy

There's two in Dorset street that i know of,a couple on Talbot St,A few around Meath St,A couple in Moore st and i'm pretty sure campden St has a couple too.
Here we go
http://www.goldenpages.ie/category_Butchers_Dublin-1-1.html

http://www.goldenpages.ie/search/Dublin--2/Butchers.html

g'em

There's an FXB's on Moore Street (or aorund there) that I've heard great things about. Anyone know it?

Degsy

g'em wrote: »

There's an FXB's on Moore Street (or aorund there) that I've heard great things about. Anyone know it?

I do.
It sells everything.They seem to have specialised in ethnic meats too,so if you fancy chicken gizzards or bullock hearts it is the place to go!

Macha

Great, thanks guys.

agentgreen

Lawlors in Rathmines and Dunnes in Donnybrook are fantastic, the meat is from the same farm. They are a bit pricey though, but you get what you pay for.

Khannie

briankeating wrote: »

but the meat in my local Supervalue is superb.

Try your local butchers. I'd be willing to bet money that for the same money you'll get higher quality meat than at supervalu. I'll never buy meat from our local supervalu again tbh.

Brian?

Khannie wrote: »

Try your local butchers. I'd be willing to bet money that for the same money you'll get higher quality meat than at supervalu. I'll never buy meat from our local supervalu again tbh.

Not really, the butchers is better for some things like whole chickens, but the beef and lamb are just as good and sometimes better in Supervalue. As someone said earlier, Supervalue varys quite a bit because of the way its run.

Although from a moral standpoint i'd nearly rather go to the butchers anyway.

kevpants

I dunno about all the butcher pimping. In my recent experience you pay more for the very same quality as the big multiples.

The amount of times I've bought expensive mince only for it to be mostly fat and water from two local butchers. I guess they're trying to play off the rep that local butchers are best for quality and profiting off it.

I don't want to hear any "support local business" stuff either. I pay enough for everything on this island so I'm not atking any prisoners anymore! :pac:

At the risk of getting slagged has anyone tried the steaks / chickens in LIDL? I've been seriously impressed. I've been buying them the past 3 or 4 weeks and am yet to get a tough steak. It's all Irish produce too incase you're wondering.

Macha

kevpants wrote: »

I dunno about all the butcher pimping. In my recent experience you pay more for the very same quality as the big multiples.

The amount of times I've bought expensive mince only for it to be mostly fat and water from two local butchers. I guess they're trying to play off the rep that local butchers are best for quality and profiting off it.

I don't want to hear any "support local business" stuff either. I pay enough for everything on this island so I'm not atking any prisoners anymore! :pac:

At the risk of getting slagged has anyone tried the steaks / chickens in LIDL? I've been seriously impressed. I've been buying them the past 3 or 4 weeks and am yet to get a tough steak. It's all Irish produce too incase you're wondering.

For every euro you spend on a local supplier, 3 times more of it stays in the local economy than when you spend it on a foreign multi-national. It's already the case that for every €4 spent in Ireland, €1 is spent in Tesco. I think they have their fare share of the business. Supermarkets have way too much power.

Bottom line, you get what you pay for: I've never had a Tesco shelf answer my questions about origin or spatchcock (love that word) a chicken for me yet.

We've never been richer but we've never been such mangy cheapskates. Wanting a whole chicken for under €5 is shocking (apart from that small minority who are actually poor).

But each to their own..

kevpants

taconnol wrote: »

For every euro you spend on a local supplier, 3 times more of it stays in the local economy than when you spend it on a foreign multi-national. It's already the case that for every €4 spent in Ireland, €1 is spent in Tesco. I think they have their fare share of the business. Supermarkets have way too much power.

Sorry not my problem. You may never have been richer but I certainly ain't swimming in cash. By richer you may mean flashier cars and bigger houses. That isn't rich that's debt.

The price of living here means I have to go to the cheapest supplier for everything so long as the quality is up to scratch, what business is it of mine where my euro goes after I hand it over. How is it my responsibility? Should I have to cripple myself financially just to try and right the system? Compete or GTFO.

I don't think it's off topic either since a big part of fitness is diet and big part of diet is the cost.

Brian?

kevpants wrote: »

I dunno about all the butcher pimping. In my recent experience you pay more for the very same quality as the big multiples.

The amount of times I've bought expensive mince only for it to be mostly fat and water from two local butchers. I guess they're trying to play off the rep that local butchers are best for quality and profiting off it.

I don't want to hear any "support local business" stuff either. I pay enough for everything on this island so I'm not atking any prisoners anymore! :pac:

At the risk of getting slagged has anyone tried the steaks / chickens in LIDL? I've been seriously impressed. I've been buying them the past 3 or 4 weeks and am yet to get a tough steak. It's all Irish produce too incase you're wondering.

Its your own fault for buying mince really;) . Buy some steak and a mincer instead.

The chicken in Lidl is grand, I tend to buy packets of breast and legs there in bulk and they've always been alright. Having said that I don't actually like chicken that much, I eat it for its low fat protein goodness.

The only times I bought steak in Lidl it was terrible though, not as bad as Tesco actually but bad. I hear Aldi beef is decent though.

Roper

kevpants wrote: »

Sorry not my problem. You may never have been richer but I certainly ain't swimming in cash. By richer you may mean flashier cars and bigger houses. That isn't rich that's debt.

The price of living here means I have to go to the cheapest supplier for everything so long as the quality is up to scratch, what business is it of mine where my euro goes after I hand it over. How is it my responsibility? Should I have to cripple myself financially just to try and right the system? Compete or GTFO.

Forgetting the moral responsibility for a moment, which is your prerogative to ignore (even if I disagree vehemently), if everyone had your attitude, then local suppliers would fast be out of business totally (as opposed to mostly which has already happened). This might not have a huge effect in Dublin where supermarkets are common, but it has a massive effect in rural areas whose market will only allow one supermarket, but may have allowed 3 butchers, 2 or 3 fruit and veg suppliers and so on, all locally owned. Once the supermarket takes over, then these businesses shut down, and not just in one village but in villages and towns within a huge radius. This kills small villages economically. Farmers no longer have a local market and have to divert all of their business to the larger retailers who pay less per unit. The result is a viscious circle of economic loss to the village but then....

... the bit that concerns you happens, the man who wants to buy slightly cheaper. The supermarket becomes a monopoly, the only show in town. They can raise prices or source poorer quality produce for cheaper without fear of a loss of profit, they've already driven the competition out of business with things like loss-leaders.

And this isn't limited to rural areas, it's just that cities mask it's effects better. Suburban towns which once boasted locally owned businesses now suffer the same effects due to now being commuter towns.

Compete of GTFO you say? I say how can you compete against a big box which can take a hit on cheaper meat by selling more expensive bread for a month or two? And once they get the local man out of business through that, they raise the meat price and move on to fruit and veg, then baking products and so on.

Value isn't just cost per kg, it's what you pay for in terms of service, peace of mind, distance from your home and so on. I'd sooner trust my local butcher with handling the food I cook for my son than someone on minimum wage who got a 2 hour course on food safety. Like most people, my pockets aren't overflowing with ready cash but I know where I'd sooner spend the extra and it's on peace of mind, quality and hoping that when my boy grows up that Dublin might look a bit like Dublin and not some generic city that could be anywhere in the world.

Macha

Couldn't have put it better myself...

And that's just one aspect of the negative effects of large supermarkets.

g'em

New thread made

brianthebard

People seem to think buying irish but from a supermarket is ok-do you realise that most of that meat is coming from overseas,then repackaged and sold with irish on the label in some way?Also by buying from supermarkets you are agreeing with the poor terms they give irish farmers,and the fact that their markup is double the average butchers.If you believe your local butcher is selling poor meat shop around.Many of them do excellent pork,but average beef for example.By shopping around you can get the best meat from the best people,while checking the herd number on the wall.

Degsy

I guarantee i could be able to tell supermarket meat from butcher meat in a blind test anyday.
The meat in supermarkets even looks different and most of the reason comes down to ageing.
If you hang a carcass for 30 days or so(as most butcher meat would be),it changes its character completely,the flavour is better,the fat is firmer,the meat actually becomes more tender.
Supermarkets are in such a hurry to make a buck the animal is often killed,butchered and on the shelves in five days or less.

Roper

brianthebard wrote: »

People seem to think buying irish but from a supermarket is ok-do you realise that most of that meat is coming from overseas,then repackaged and sold with irish on the label in some way?

Evidence of this happening please? I've heard of it but then some anti-big box stuff is conjured up by people with dreadlocks and mangey dogs on strings . I've yet to see comprehensive evidence of this happening.

Esse85

I find the English Market in the center of Cork city very good.

brianthebard

Roper wrote: »

Evidence of this happening please? I've heard of it but then some anti-big box stuff is conjured up by people with dreadlocks and mangey dogs on strings . I've yet to see comprehensive evidence of this happening.

well you could read not on the label.Or hide in the back of the local supervalu and see the packaging the chicken comes in from the netherlands.

Degsy

Skinless chicken fillets ARE actually imported a lot of the time.I worked in Dunnes butchers and they came in a big box from England.
Chicken fillets arent good value anyway,its better to buy the whole chicken,cut the fillets from it then use the meat from the legs as well.
Or just roast the damn thing the way people used to before George Foremans came along

Macha

Roper wrote: »

Evidence of this happening please? I've heard of it but then some anti-big box stuff is conjured up by people with dreadlocks and mangey dogs on strings . I've yet to see comprehensive evidence of this happening.

I did a journalism course & one of my lecturers was the guy who went undercover into one of the warehouses where they stored the meat that the government bought from the farmers to stockpile. They were changing the stamps on the meat, upgrading them. I think it was part of the flood tribunal?

Also read "Not on the label" by Felicity Lawrence. It's about the UK but the practices are based around the UK supermarkets like Tesco & M&S so I wouldn't be surprised if the same was happening here.

flogen

I'm not sure where people are going with the suggestion that independent butchers are hard to find (in Dublin at least). They may not be as plentiful as in previous years but I can think of tonnes off the top of my head, even one in my local shopping centre which also has a Tesco with large butcher's counter practically next door.

In terms of price, if you're in the right place you could try a butcher's "factory shop", which I guess can best be described as a meat processing plant with a shop tagged onto it. One near me in Coolock sells 10 chicken fillets for €9 and 800gms of lean mince for €5, as two examples of price. Tastes good to me too!

brianthebard

Flogen whats the name of the butchers beside tesco?Theres a chain store that is pretty much the same as getting meat in the supermarket,can't remember the name now though.

Pride Fighter

Just on a sidenote I bought chicken fillets in tesco a while back. I cooked them up 5 days before they were due to go off but they were off anyway. I took one bite, and spat it out. I am lucky I did'nt get food poisoning.

flogen

brianthebard wrote: »

Flogen whats the name of the butchers beside tesco?Theres a chain store that is pretty much the same as getting meat in the supermarket,can't remember the name now though.

It's in Omni and on further brainstorming I realised there's actually two of them - one facing Tesco and the other about 3-4 shops up from it.

Had to search for the name as I use neither but it's Gormley's and Cosgrave's - can't vouch for their quality and am not sure if either is a chain or not.

JayRoc

Christ knows I'd rarely agree with Degsy, but he's got this one spot on;

Why anyone would buy meat or poultry from a supermarket when odds on there's a butcher (and one with a long-standing local reputation....at least in most areas) around the corner with better produce (grill a supermarket chicken breast on a foreman grill and see how much water comes out) and better prices,is quite simply beyond me. Other than simple laziness, I can't see a good reason.

Hanley

kevpants wrote: »

Sorry not my problem. You may never have been richer but I certainly ain't swimming in cash. By richer you may mean flashier cars and bigger houses. That isn't rich that's debt.

The price of living here means I have to go to the cheapest supplier for everything so long as the quality is up to scratch, what business is it of mine where my euro goes after I hand it over. How is it my responsibility? Should I have to cripple myself financially just to try and right the system? Compete or GTFO.

I don't think it's off topic either since a big part of fitness is diet and big part of diet is the cost.

With every post I like you more and more!

I'm pretty pro-competition at the worst of times so I don't think people should buy from butchers out of some moral obligation (but you could argue that I'm just young and foolish!) BUT if there is better value to be had (as their often is) in butchers then that's the place to be going. I don't think anyone would complain about spending perhaps 10% more at a butchers for your weekly meat shop, but any more than that and I think price HAS to become a factor, it would be for me at least (and yes, I guess that means up to 10% is the value I put on supporting the local economy).

I know there's a butchers on the Cabra Road in the same block of shops as Dominos, AIB etc and the quality of the stuff there seems to be of the highest quality. Comparing prices to the local Tesco's they're better on chicken fillets by a mile, mince, beef and the likes seems to be comparable if not better in both price and quality.

There's LOADS of butchers still around anyway, it's not like they're all fading away (and while I'm at it, maybe traditionally there hasn't been a need for as many butchers as there was, maybe that's why they're dropping by the wayside and the better ones are surviving. Maybe they're merely existed in "old" Ireland because that's the way things always were!)

35notout

For those in Dublin who are worried about price and budget, try Branagans - they are a wholesale butchers who sell to the public. Full tracibility of your meat, butcher quality and a good price too when you buy in bulk.

http://www.branaganmeats.com/index.htm

brianthebard

Just two small points hanley-don't you think that the combined weight of small businesses provides useful and necessary competition for the multiples?And don't you think that if ten percent(or even more)of the make up of the average supermarket chicken fillet is added water,that quality or quantity should win out?Its not what you pay but what you pay for thats important imo.

Hanley

brianthebard wrote: »

Just two small points hanley-don't you think that the combined weight of small businesses provides useful and necessary competition for the multiples?

Without data to work with all I can do is guess... I would say yes, to an extent. But competition between the big multiples themselves is probably a larger factor. Especially with Lidl and Aldi on the market and the price wars we have at the moment. We could throw out the cartel conspiracy theories that might arise in the absence of independent businesses such as butchers, but I think the presence of Aldi and Lidl in the market pretty much makes that point moot.

And don't you think that if ten percent(or even more)of the make up of the average supermarket chicken fillet is added water,that quality or quantity should win out?Its not what you pay but what you pay for thats important imo.

Of course quality is important... I think chicken fillets tend to suffer more when it comes to added water weight in the big multiples (like I said, butchers are cheaper and have better quality for them!). But I'm quite a fan of Tesco's mince. I'd use it quite a lot and the mince I've gotten from my local family run Londis hasn't been cheaper, and the quality wasn't as good (based on several purchases of each!). But that's not really that fair a comparison since I'm not using a "real" butchers.

I do think butches offer better value and quality, I'm certainly not disputing that. BUT if that wasn't the case, I don't think people should be shopping in them out of obligation.

What do you think of my point that there was a high proliferation of butchers in "old" Ireland because that's just what the status quo was, even if the market couldn't really support them? Namely, butchers had kids who went into the family business and either set up their own shops, or maintained existing ones and only retained their customer base out of some misplaced "loyalty" on the behalf of their customers?

brianthebard

Im of two minds about whether there were too many butchers to begin with.I know towns where there are 2 or 3 butchers,and when the multiples move in often that results in a shop closing down.But in 'old ireland' you couldn't create a need for a shop if the need wasn't there,so to an extent it goes back to competition.I guess in general i agree that there may have been too many shops,but that hasn't changed,they've just been replaced by the supermarkets.

Hanley

brianthebard wrote: »

Im of two minds about whether there were too many butchers to begin with.I know towns where there are 2 or 3 butchers,and when the multiples move in often that results in a shop closing down.But in 'old ireland' you couldn't create a need for a shop if the need wasn't there,so to an extent it goes back to competition.I guess in general i agree that there may have been too many shops,but that hasn't changed,they've just been replaced by the supermarkets.

I'd probably argue that the increase in multiples might have been combated if the locals had the foresight to consolidate their efforts into one big store instead of 5 or 6 small individual ones who only sold fruit and veg, OR meat, OR general groceries.

It really is the sort of discussion that could go either way. Each side has a valid argument.

Anyway... we're rambling. Or is this on topic???

EDIT: In regards to the high number of butchers in small towns. I'd guess this happened as a result of growing populations and perhaps even migration. As a town expands, it might not NEED more shops or butchers, but the market can support it so they survive. I'd be interested to hear the back story behind why most small towns have several butchers. My guess is that as the town grew the traditional, original family butcher stayed there and then either the people who worked for them, or migrants left and started their own shop since population was growing and the head count to support it was there.

Brian?

Hanley wrote: »

Anyway... we're rambling. Or is this on topic???

In fairness this entire thread started as ramblings in another thread so I'm not sure if it matters.

As for the discussion at hand, I think choice is good but not at the expense of quality or value. In and ideal world the supremarket and the local butcher/baker/green grocer would live in harmony and people would make their decisions to visit each for there own reasons. I think its up to the local trader to insure they somehow have a competitive edge over the supermarket, no necessarily on price, more realisticly on quality of goods. Its up to the traders themselves to insure they survive by attracting custon is whatever way necessary unfortunatly.

mikemac

Roper wrote: »

Evidence of this happening please? I've heard of it but then some anti-big box stuff is conjured up by people with dreadlocks and mangey dogs on strings . I've yet to see comprehensive evidence of this happening.

It goes on alright. Mainly with beef from Brazil and we all know the slash n' burn schemes that go there.
Rain forest is burned down and the land used for raising cattle. Within a few short years, the land is exhausted (might be the wrong term) and is basically useless.
If that doesn't concern then remember the country is awash with diseases. There is little or no vacination programs, it's all about the quick buck. You'll remeber foot and mouth disease here when this country almost shut down and it was pure luck and great government inititive (for once :rolleyes:) then meant Ireland kept it's disease free status.
The USA and Canada have considered banning Brazilian beef and so has the EU in January 2008.

This has been even raised in the Dail and Senate, it's heavy reading though

One threat is the relabelling or non-labelling of Brazilian beef. Brazil is our largest supplier of imported beef, with 5,000 tonnes imported annually, amounting to 94% of our imported beef. Late last year, a report was published by the EU Food and Veterinary Office which indicated that [1093] imported meat does not match standards required of Irish beef products. The report on Brazilian beef, carried out in May 2004, expressed concerns over issues such as animal traceability, vaccinations, animal movement systems and slaughterhouse hygiene. This is even more worrying as Bord Bia believes there will be an increase in low-priced, non-EU beef entering Europe in 2005, particularly from South America

Good article from the Guardian on Brazilian beef in the UK

I second Ropers post above. Supermarkets can be incredibly agressive and will cut a farmers margin to nothing. Shortcuts are then taken but is the farmer realy to blame?
Seriously, it costs a small bit extra to shop at a local butcher. Most will be able to tell you when the animal was slaughtered and what herd it came from so feel free to ask these questions. To become a butcher requires an apprenticeship and they even have their own craft organization. Ask your butcher if they are a member, they will be happy to tell you what training they have.
Now ask the 18 year old in Tesco who was flipping burgers in McDonalds last week what they know about food safety except a short video course in induction.

By all means shop to save money. There are savings to be had in the big supermarkets. But remember then in a few years, the small independant shops will go under and the supermarkets can raise their price and who can stop them.
You'll be left with two options: a supermarket or a farmers market which can be expensive.
You might have heard of the Walmart effect. This is a 90 video, Walmart-High cost of low prices. It's down in xtravision but free to view here.

Btw, I'm no hippy, I work in banking and I'll happily rip you off with excess fees. In fact, if you're with AIB, I probably already have. Sorry!

gabgab

Mt two cents on this:

Buying or doing anything is down to a specific set of goals and desired outcomes,

Much like training or a gym/facility.

Regarding Ben Dunne approach and competition etc, yes it is wonderful and helps the consumer on a number of levels, it must be said that Ben Dunne and his model has not done alot for humanity,

The competitive argument is a great one, but people cannot ignore that it gets to a point where you become dependant on them and as such your choice, as a consumer, has dwindled,

I must admit that even if I get something cheap as chips, there is alot to be said for that person that takes the time to say hello, have a bit of craic, throw in a scoop extra of this or that

OR in fitness terms,

Training to use a facility that is nice rto be in and gives you for whatever reason a better outcome at the end of the day, either tangible or intangible

Hanley

micmclo wrote: »

You might have heard of the Walmart effect. This is a 90 video, Walmart-High cost of low prices. It's down in xtravision but free to view here.

Btw, I'm no hippy, I work in banking and I'll happily rip you off with excess fees. In fact, if you're with AIB, I probably already have. Sorry!

I don't know how much of a concern the "Walmart Effect" should be in Ireland. The level of competition, and relative market share that the big multiples have here is a lot different to the distribution that exists in the US.

I said a couple of years ago when Tesco started to open their big 24 hour Extra stores that they seemed to be trying to mimic what Walmart did in the US (gigantic stores stocking pretty much everything you could possibly need), but I don't think it's realistic to expect these stores to take over the market here in the same way that Wal-Mart did in the US. But I would be interested to see whether or not the other big multiples in close proximity to the Tesco Extra's have lost business as a result (of course that's after discounting the effects of the economic downturn which have probably hit most supermarkets to an extent).

brianthebard

Hanley wrote: »

I'd probably argue that the increase in multiples might have been combated if the locals had the foresight to consolidate their efforts into one big store instead of 5 or 6 small individual ones who only sold fruit and veg, OR meat, OR general groceries.

It really is the sort of discussion that could go either way. Each side has a valid argument.

Anyway... we're rambling. Or is this on topic???

Co-op's ftw???

EDIT: In regards to the high number of butchers in small towns. I'd guess this happened as a result of growing populations and perhaps even migration. As a town expands, it might not NEED more shops or butchers, but the market can support it so they survive. I'd be interested to hear the back story behind why most small towns have several butchers. My guess is that as the town grew the traditional, original family butcher stayed there and then either the people who worked for them, or migrants left and started their own shop since population was growing and the head count to support it was there.

I remembered another point, which is that many of the butchers in bygone days would've specialised in meat products of different types-one would do the best or exclusively pork/chicken/beef, and of course there were fishmongers...Now you see all different types of meat being sold in the one shop as well as fish, in an attempt to strengthen their position. Perhaps the ones who lost out were too slow to adapt to this way of business, or once butchers were expected to sell everything there was only room for one/two shops and a multiple?

gabgab

Hanley wrote: »

I don't know how much of a concern the "Walmart Effect" should be in Ireland. The level of competition, and relative market share that the big multiples have here is a lot different to the distribution that exists in the US.

I said a couple of years ago when Tesco started to open their big 24 hour Extra stores that they seemed to be trying to mimic what Walmart did in the US (gigantic stores stocking pretty much everything you could possibly need), but I don't think it's realistic to expect these stores to take over the market here in the same way that Wal-Mart did in the US. But I would be interested to see whether or not the other big multiples in close proximity to the Tesco Extra's have lost business as a result (of course that's after discounting the effects of the economic downturn which have probably hit most supermarkets to an extent).

gotta disagree on the affect point,

Realistically I can go in and buy a television and garden furniture in my local Dunnes, on top of food etc. We dont realise its happening but it is happening,

I am 26, when I was a kid, a supermarket sold groceries, they guy next door sold televisions. Simple as that

On the whole buying from a supermarket for cost point, fair enough in theory. However if you take that approach to every facet in life then we should all be training at home in a garage with equipment bought from Irish-lifting. I mean 3 years in a gym is ballpark €1500 to €2500. Then people can have 2 gyms etc etc etc

Hell I'm all for competition, however we all need to remember that there is a human element to it too

Macha

True. go into Dunnes in Cornelscourt & you can buy all your food, electricals, clothes, decorate your apartment, get your garden furniture & plants, bed linen, pillows, duvets, fuel for the fire...plus they also sell all the stuff that the newsagents sell.

Now we're not quite at the level of the uber-Wallmarts in the US that sell cars as well, or the enormous Carrefour in France but I think the only things that are possibly holding them back are the small population, the strong likelihood of local opposition & our planning system (that basically capitulates to local opinion a lot of the time-IKEA said they've never experienced so many delays in opening a store as in Ireland).

In terms of price, I think I've said this before but in the 1960s we used to spend 30% of our disposable income on food. Now its 15%. It's not that we can't afford good quality, high welfare meat, it's just that we'd rather spend it on TVs, cars, holidays, magazines, game consoles. It's just about priorities & for me, the quality of the food that I put into my body is very high up my list (as well as the environment, welfare, packaging, supporting local businesses etc).

The other thing that's changed is the wife/mother staying at home all day, and having time to go around to all the different shops. Nowadays, both parents/partners work. I still think its worth the extra time & effort though.

Hanley

gabgab wrote: »

gotta disagree on the affect point,

Realistically I can go in and buy a television and garden furniture in my local Dunnes, on top of food etc. We dont realise its happening but it is happening,

I am 26, when I was a kid, a supermarket sold groceries, they guy next door sold televisions. Simple as that

On the whole buying from a supermarket for cost point, fair enough in theory. However if you take that approach to every facet in life then we should all be training at home in a garage with equipment bought from Irish-lifting. I mean 3 years in a gym is ballpark €1500 to €2500. Then people can have 2 gyms etc etc etc

Hell I'm all for competition, however we all need to remember that there is a human element to it too

My point about the "Wal-mart effect" not having as significant an impact here was based on the assumption that there'll remain to be strong competition between the big multiples. In the US Wal-mart is basically choking the market and driving almost everyone it competes against out of business. There's enough competition for this not to happen in Ireland. I do agree that Dunnes etc are starting to branch out like Tesco, BUT my original point was about compeition between big multiples and not between big multiples and small stores.

Huggles

Well said, I was at my butcher this morning, I got 6 chicken fillets, 2lbs of lean mince beef, and a 4 inch slab of fillet steak.

28 euros! Can't go wrong.

Degsy wrote: »

I think nobody with a social conscience should buy meat from a supermarket.The quality is appalling and its putting smaller retailers out of business.Buyt from a butcher instead,if you're bulk-buying chicken fillets for example or steaks,they'll usually give you a discount as they come to know you.
Farmed salmon cutlets-destroy the seas leave the stuff well alone.

Hanley

taconnol wrote: »

The other thing that's changed is the wife/mother staying at home all day, and having time to go around to all the different shops. Nowadays, both parents/partners work. I still think its worth the extra time & effort though.

I think that's one of the most decisive factors at play tbh!

Macha

Hanley wrote: »

I think that's one of the most decisive factors at play tbh!

Yeah I'm kinda dreading being a working mum in the future & having to juggle everything. And with a vegan boyfriend, I think I'll be the only one making the trip to the butchers :pac:

Hanley

taconnol wrote: »

Yeah I'm kinda dreading being a working mum in the future & having to juggle everything. And with a vegan boyfriend, I think I'll be the only one making the trip to the butchers :pac:

How long before some enterprising butcher sets up an online store and starts to deliver quality frozen meat at reasonable prices....?

Macha

Well...I know some of the organic veg box people do it. But I have a feeling they only do it around Christmas time. Good business idea!