IPSC - Airsoft Practical Pistol

TheDoc

i think theres too much variance in gbbs for accuracy for something so demanding on finese...

and notice any video youll see of airsoft pistol comps abroad
dont use stock pistols

They all have some serious upgrades, most noticably non plastic BB's...which wouldnt be cosure here. And i wouldnt personally condone anyone using steel pellts in events, how easily could you forget to not change rounds for a skirmish...and then shops having to stock them

Good idea in theory, unless we all vary in the variances...i think it would give unfair readings to victors.

Frank the Manc

So its like target shooting?
If it is then i dont see how someone could spend a day shooting targets when you can easily shoot actual ppl, which is more challenging.

P.S you asked if there were any ranges, this also gave me the impression that you meant RS..

heres some links to it so you can get some idea
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTbqcEul984

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf4FyY6RvW4&feature=related

race guns may not be everyones cup of tea but you cant say that those boys arent skilled and fast as fúck, especially the fella with the standard 1911a1.
you can shoot fast and you can shoot accurately but doin both at the same time is quite a skill.

its far closer to the real thing than skirmishing is to an actual battlefield, shooting is a lot trickier when you add recoil to the mix, i wonder how many lads in a skirmish would fare as well if their shots actually scattered around a target when they hold the trigger down for 10 seconds....

i have nothing against skirmishing its good craic but there really is no need to own more than a couple of aegs, other than for pure asthetics, as they are all mosty the same, especially given our 1 joule limitations.

they really dont do it for me with regards realism, other than the fact that theyre gun shaped and have selector switchs/mag releases/"cocking handles" ect. in the same places as they guns they are trying to replicate.

i used the term range to differenciate between a training course and an actual course/range.
theres a lot of confusion in this thread.

Frank the Manc

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

i think theres too much variance in gbbs for accuracy for something so demanding on finese...

and notice any video youll see of airsoft pistol comps abroad
dont use stock pistols

They all have some serious upgrades, most noticably non plastic BB's...which wouldnt be cosure here. And i wouldnt personally condone anyone using steel pellts in events, how easily could you forget to not change rounds for a skirmish...and then shops having to stock them

Good idea in theory, unless we all vary in the variances...i think it would give unfair readings to victors.

i was unaware of anything other than plastic bbs being used, where did you see those?
what difference does someone using steel pellets in events(and i dont think that they do) make to you?
by that same reasoning you wouldnt "condone" 10m indoor events, ie .177 airguns.
its an event, something fairly well controlled, the safety checks by the timers are the exact same as the RS version, which incidently happens here already and they use 9,10 & 11mm lead bullets, goin a hell of a lot faster than 328fps.

you dont need pinpoint accuracy, you just need to hit a metal plate or shiloutte, extremely fast.

im sure there are people out there that dont like the idea of a skirmish and what it represents but each to their own, once it doesnt interfere with another persons wellbeing whats the harm?

i really can see those guns being skirmished to be honest so i dont thingthat would come into it, not that bb material makes any difference to energy output or pain felt.

shops having to stock them????:rolleyes:

sounds to me someone might be a bit afraid of something they dont full understand, not that i mind, as long as youre not on to Joe in the morning...

im not having a go at you personally or anything, you just seem dead set against it for all the wrong readons.
if you said it was too boring for you i would have said fair enough.

Stercus Accidit

I really enjoyed the pistol shooting held at the hrta bday game, and would love to try it again.

We so rarely get to use our gbb's properly, and they are great craic, at 15 or so metres they are grand to use accuracy wise.
I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to do another one as an aside thing to a days skirmishing, it was very popular on the day at the hrta bday, it was fun tbh and thats the point.

Frank the Manc

Motosam wrote: »

I really enjoyed the pistol shooting held at the hrta bday game, and would love to try it again.

We so rarely get to use our gbb's properly, and they are great craic, at 15 or so metres they are grand to use accuracy wise.
I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to do another one as an aside thing to a days skirmishing, it was very popular on the day at the hrta bday, it was fun tbh and thats the point.

my sentiments exactly, gbbs are by far the most fun thing about airsoft, well in my mind anyway and you rarely do get to use them other than the odd pistols only match or as a last ditch.

are there any videos or even pics of that day, id be intersted just to see how it was run, although i know there probably wasnt the target sensors and all that but just to see what way the course was laid out.

kdouglas

monksavage wrote: »

Hes obviously talking bout AIRSOFT not RS! He is a reg poster here noobs!

Im building a cutom pistol specifically for practical shooting. Should be finished in a week or so have pics up then!!! Much more interesting than an aliens rifle!!! Cos im not a freak ha ha

Next time you make a sly insult like that against a member on here, moderator or not, you will be banned.

bullets

I'd love to try Practical Airsoft pistol.
(And also target shooting Airsoft see my post on APS3)
The Videos I've seen all use Plastic BB's I've not seen
the vids where they use metal BBs They use a light metal plate
thats knocked over or hit to make a Twang alright.

Unless it was the 6mm ones specifically designed for Airsoft the only
metal bb's I can think of are the .177 ones designed for daisy guns
which wont work in any airsoft equipment as the size difference.

Its Airsoft where you dont need acres of Land to have a bit of Fun.
Also its something that can be done by anyone interested in Airsoft
anyplace in the country as you not looking for a Huge amount
of space to set of a course so you dont necessarly need to travel to
a skirmish site miles away.

I would totally disagree with anyone that would try and distance
it from other types of Airsoft events.
I dont get why running around the place with an Airsoft M4 or M249 dressed in camo in a field is perfectly fine
but Running around on an Airsoft Practical Pistol course is all of a sudden too like training to real steel and its a big fat neddy no no
and could cause a bad image of airsoft.

I'd love to get a nice GBB pistol that would work as well as the ones
seen in the Videos. Getting one to work under 1j could be a challenge in itself
though.


~B

Alvin T. Grey

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

i think theres too much variance in gbbs for accuracy for something so demanding on finese...

and notice any video youll see of airsoft pistol comps abroad
dont use stock pistols

They all have some serious upgrades, most noticably non plastic BB's...which wouldnt be cosure here. And i wouldnt personally condone anyone using steel pellts in events, how easily could you forget to not change rounds for a skirmish...and then shops having to stock themGood idea in theory, unless we all vary in the variances...i think it would give unfair readings to victors.

It dosn't matter what the BB is made of, it's the weight and velocity the projectile travels at.
Metal rounds (ie aluminium or magnesium or some variation of such) once the correct weight, size are no more haremfull then the plastic/cellulose rounds.

It's an urban legend.

There is some thought about whether the fact that they don't deform in the same way as plastic does on impact, but lets face it, at the legal limit, we aren't talking about a whole lot of energy to begin with...

Puding

i have to agree that from my experiance it can be greta fun, having the added benifit of being a lot easyer to set up that a full skirmish site

course is all of a sudden too like training to real steel and its a big fat neddy no no
and could cause a bad image of airsoft.

did anyone ever say that? beacuse if they did it makes no sense

bullets

Alvin T. Grey wrote: »

There is some thought about whether the fact that they don't deform in the same way as plastic does on impact, but lets face it, at the legal limit, we aren't talking about a whole lot of energy to begin with...

Plus with Practical Pistol you wont actually be shooting at People!
only metal plates or Cardboard cut outs.

BTW if anyone has info on where one would obtain all the gear
to actually get the Kit to make up something that could be used let me
know. My next buy I want something gas powered and have been meaning
to get a new Pistol. Was gonna gofor the M4 C02 in MIA but its sold out,
or the APS3 Air powered single shot but its sold out lots of places.
Watching the Vids again makes me want the same rig out as those lads.

Mmmmm googleing now...all so far are under 1j.
~B

Frank the Manc

bullets wrote: »

I'd love to try Practical Airsoft pistol.
(And also target shooting Airsoft see my post on APS3)
The Videos I've seen all use Plastic BB's I've not seen
the vids where they use metal BBs They use a light metal plate
thats knocked over or hit to make a Twang alright.

Unless it was the 6mm ones specifically designed for Airsoft the only
metal bb's I can think of are the .177 ones designed for daisy guns
which wont work in any airsoft equipment as the size difference.

Its Airsoft where you dont need acres of Land to have a bit of Fun.
Also its something that can be done by anyone interested in Airsoft
anyplace in the country as you not looking for a Huge amount
of space to set of a course so you dont necessarly need to travel to
a skirmish site miles away.

I would totally disagree with anyone that would try and distance
it from other types of Airsoft events.
I dont get why running around the place with an Airsoft M4 or M249 dressed in camo in a field is perfectly fine
but Running around on an Airsoft Practical Pistol course is all of a sudden too like training to real steel and its a big fat neddy no no
and could cause a bad image of airsoft.

I'd love to get a nice GBB pistol that would work as well as the ones
seen in the Videos. Getting one to work under 1j could be a challenge in itself
though.


~B

i thought that might me right up your street alrite bullets.
if you have a look on ehobby there are a couple of the EA custom pisrols which have TM or WA base with guarder metal slide and recoil springs hammers and valves, all comming in at about 310 fps.
so all you would need is say this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/EAC-HI-CAPA-4-3-INFINITY-DUAL-METAL-Airsoft-GBB-Gun-344_W0QQitemZ280252420617QQihZ018QQcategoryZ160921QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ELECTRO-Holographic-MULTI-Reticle-Red-Dot-Sight-RDS-FS6_W0QQitemZ270266173538QQihZ017QQcategoryZ66827QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

and this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/G-P-LONG-Mount-Base-for-TM-HI-CAPA-WA-Infinity-GP130B_W0QQitemZ280235081800QQihZ018QQcategoryZ52510QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

and youre sorted as regards a gun, holsters and mags being the only other prerequisite besides hours of drilling.
you could even get the same set-up as above for cheaper with a clone base gun and upgrade yourself.


as for targets theye are plenty of metal plate targets out there for handt money and the site would need a timer and possibly target sensors depending on their course.


whats the M4 C02 in MIA by the way?

bullets

Frank the Manc wrote: »

whats the M4 C02 in MIA by the way?

Sorry that should have been M9!
Yeah might get me something in the Line of a Pistol set
up to take a red-dot (or dont even need it)
Mad Bull do a stop plate timer thingy for about 90USD
which could be an investment.

~B

Frank the Manc

bullets wrote: »

Sorry that should have been M9!
Yeah might get me something in the Line of a Pistol set
up to take a red-dot (or dont even need it)
Mad Bull do a stop plate timer thingy for about 90USD
which could be an investment.

~B

ah i see.
you wouldnt need any of that if you so choose, a bog standard 1911 or even a glock would do.
where did you see the madbull timer?

had a quick look at the holsters on ebay and they are not too cheap, one mag holster being about the same price as a (clone) safari land gun holster, $30

bullets

http://www.thaiairsoftmarket.com/boyd/catalog.php?category=8

All metal Body on this (even if it looks ABS) is apealing.
http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/ProductDetail?prodID=14981


~B

TheDoc

o hey im not against it at all.

Just i watch alot of airsoft videos through the net and youtube etc

And most of the videos i see, the guys have some seriously upgraded kit and most of em use metal pellets

I'm not here to wreck the buzz haha, its a great idea and something id be interested in myself, as i love pistols, but dont get to use them as much as id like in a skirmish..and i fully understand there is a portion of the airsoft community that dont skirmish. And this is definitly something of a high skill level.

Obviously since its not being done here yet, i didnt know if it was metal/plastic bb's and I didnt want to get into a debate about the whole saga.

But most pistol challenges abroad, use metal...i dont know why or what...but they just do.

But by all means, i hope it does all go well and I'd defintly be supportive...i dont remember saying i wasnt I'm not part of the safety brigade haha

NakedDex

It is true that most airsoft IPSC discipline shooters use heavily upgraded pistols. If I remember correctly, Warrior over on ASI regularly participates in events. He does a lot of custom race pistols for others in the same field. His own pistol (which is a work of art in it's own right) cost him around £500 sterling by the time it was competition ready.

I've done lots of 10M .177 shooting and used to compete reasonably often. When I started airsoft I looked into IPSC and tried it a good few times. I found it didn't at all compare to "proper" target shooting (for the want of a better word than proper) due to the inconsistancies in the GBB's. Targets I know I could hit dead centre normally often became left up to luck.

I'm not saying either skirmishing or IPSC is better, but I do rather skirmishing. I'd retry IPSC if I had a properly tuned race gun, but until then I'll stick to hitting moving targets which return fire, accurate or not.
(By the by, not all skirmishers "hold the trigger for 10 seconds" as someone said. Some of us actually treat skirmishing with the same reverence you bestow on IPSC. Try hitting a target 20 yards away, running a diagonal at full sprint with two of his buddies firing at you when you have a rifle which only fires semi auto and has 20 rounds in a mag. IPSC undoubtedly required skill, but so does that. Give skirmishers their due.)

Frank the Manc

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

o hey im not against it at all.

Just i watch alot of airsoft videos through the net and youtube etc

And most of the videos i see, the guys have some seriously upgraded kit and most of em use metal pellets

I'm not here to wreck the buzz haha, its a great idea and something id be interested in myself, as i love pistols, but dont get to use them as much as id like in a skirmish..and i fully understand there is a portion of the airsoft community that dont skirmish. And this is definitly something of a high skill level.

Obviously since its not being done here yet, i didnt know if it was metal/plastic bb's and I didnt want to get into a debate about the whole saga.

But most pistol challenges abroad, use metal...i dont know why or what...but they just do.

But by all means, i hope it does all go well and I'd defintly be supportive...i dont remember saying i wasnt I'm not part of the safety brigade haha

fair enought lad, probably took you up a bit wrong.

NakedDex wrote: »

It is true that most airsoft IPSC discipline shooters use heavily upgraded pistols. If I remember correctly, Warrior over on ASI regularly participates in events. He does a lot of custom race pistols for others in the same field. His own pistol (which is a work of art in it's own right) cost him around £500 sterling by the time it was competition ready.

I've done lots of 10M .177 shooting and used to compete reasonably often. When I started airsoft I looked into IPSC and tried it a good few times. I found it didn't at all compare to "proper" target shooting (for the want of a better word than proper) due to the inconsistancies in the GBB's. Targets I know I could hit dead centre normally often became left up to luck.

I'm not saying either skirmishing or IPSC is better, but I do rather skirmishing. I'd retry IPSC if I had a properly tuned race gun, but until then I'll stick to hitting moving targets which return fire, accurate or not.
(By the by, not all skirmishers "hold the trigger for 10 seconds" as someone said. Some of us actually treat skirmishing with the same reverence you bestow on IPSC. Try hitting a target 20 yards away, running a diagonal at full sprint with two of his buddies firing at you when you have a rifle which only fires semi auto and has 20 rounds in a mag. IPSC undoubtedly required skill, but so does that. Give skirmishers their due.)

like i said i have nothig against skirmishing, but it just lacks the necessary realism for me but i dont hold anything against it at all.
its a good laugh hearing the yelps out of people that think they are fully covered by a tree or whatnot.
in that situartion id drop to my pistol and double tap all 3 tangos.:pac:
if you have a semi only rifle with real cap, youre best laid up in a hole somewhere.

Puding

but it just lacks the necessary realism for me but i dont hold anything against it at all.

this came in the midcap , hi cap thread, but you’re playing at the wrong site, there are sites out there that can offer exactly what your looking for, unfortunately there in the minority, but do not give up hope

monksavage

NakedDex wrote: »

It is true that most airsoft IPSC discipline shooters use heavily upgraded pistols. If I remember correctly, Warrior over on ASI regularly participates in events. He does a lot of custom race pistols for others in the same field. His own pistol (which is a work of art in it's own right) cost him around £500 sterling by the time it was competition ready.

Jaz he must be going for the olympics eh!

Sure whats heavily customized? The pistol im building at the moment is based on a KJW Hi-cappa. Its going to have a scope rail, red dot reflex, tight bore barrel and high flow valves in the mags. Gun and all bought for around 200 small ones.

Most standard pistols shoot at around 280 to 300fps. With a bored out valve you can get 325fps. With that power in a pistol, correct weighted bbs and a tuned hop you can shoot quite accurate up to 20 feet which seems to be the max range of targets for most practical shooting.

Frank the Manc

Puding wrote: »

this came in the midcap , hi cap thread, but you’re playing at the wrong site, there are sites out there that can offer exactly what your looking for, unfortunately there in the minority, but do not give up hope

what site might these be, feel free to PM if you like

NakedDex

The great thing about skirmishing is you can make it as realistic or as off the wall as you want. Most people starting out adopt the pray and spray method, most progress away from that. Personally, I try to keep my gear as realistic as possible. I use 50 round mags usually and will soon be cutting that down to 30 round mags for milsim use. You'd probably enjoy the milsim days on the various sites that hold them, pistols and shotguns are as integral to those games as long range primary rifles. Those who are proficient with their sidearm often come out on top when clutch moments come.

monksavage wrote: »

Jaz he must be going for the olympics eh!

Sure whats heavily customized? The pistol im building at the moment is based on a KJW Hi-cappa. Its going to have a scope rail, red dot reflex, tight bore barrel and high flow valves in the mags. Gun and all bought for around 200 small ones.

Most standard pistols shoot at around 280 to 300fps. With a bored out valve you can get 325fps. With that power in a pistol, correct weighted bbs and a tuned hop you can shoot quite accurate up to 20 feet which seems to be the max range of targets for most practical shooting.

The majority of IPSC guns are Hi-Cappas since they were built as a race gun anyway, it's an easy chassis to start from. However, most of the ones I've seen dedicated shooters use didn't just have a rail and a high flow valve (the majority had high flow valves but I've seen very few rails), they often had different guide rails and recoil springs as well as match grade slides and enhanced trigger mechs. Some of those boys spend an awful lot of money on them, it's why you'll find Hi-Cappas are one of the easiest guns to find specialised parts for.

Alvin T. Grey

monksavage wrote: »

Most standard pistols shoot at around 280 to 300fps. With a bored out valve you can get 325fps. With that power in a pistol, correct weighted bbs and a tuned hop you can shoot quite accurate up to 20 feet which seems to be the max range of targets for most practical shooting.

I have watched in awe as my team captain took kills with a stock pistol over my shoulder at more than double that range.
Ability, confidence, and practice.

It's all down to what you want to do with those skills at the end of the day. If you want to put the same round through the same hole as the previous one at great range? - Then fine. spend a fortune on a pistol that can do it.

However, practical pistol is just that:
Practical.

It provides you with all of the tips and tricks to gain that extra half second and that little bit of confidence that allows you to drop a dead AEG and stay in the fight.

monksavage

Alvin T. Grey wrote: »

I have watched in awe as my team captain took kills with a stock pistol over my shoulder at more than double that range.
Ability, confidence, and practice.

It's all down to what you want to do with those skills at the end of the day. If you want to put the same round through the same hole as the previous one at great range? - Then fine. spend a fortune on a pistol that can do it.

.

Its seems to be about having a pistol tuned for the disipline and having the speed and skill to complete the course as fast and accuratly as possible not about puttin the same round through the same hole as the previous one at great range!

Alvin T. Grey wrote: »

It provides you with all of the tips and tricks to gain that extra half second and that little bit of confidence that allows you to drop a dead AEG and stay in the fight.

What u talkin` bout willis???

bullets

monksavage wrote: »

What u talkin` bout willis???

OK for the Older generation here! Hands up who got that phrase! ;);)


~B

Compton

.

whydave

me

Alvin T. Grey

monksavage wrote: »

Its seems to be about having a pistol tuned for the disipline and having the speed and skill to complete the course as fast and accuratly as possible not about puttin the same round through the same hole as the previous one at great range!

Hyperbole my friend. It's a disipline that teaches you to use your sidearm quickly, accuratly, and with confidence. It teaches you to do things like engage multiple targets at range (well 30ft is at range for a stock airsoft pistol) while not only the target but the shooter too are moving.
That's what "Practical" means.

What u talkin` bout willis???

We have all been there, when the AEG craps out, or can't be used for some reason. Knowing that you can still get kills against people who rely on spitting out 30+ rounds per second, gives you the confidence to get your head up, put plastic on target and not run like a big girlie. That comes with practice, and disciplines like this gives one that.

BTW. Was I the only one who wanted to smack the living snot out of Arnold when he said that.
It wasn't cute. It was frickin' annoying.

elsi

monksavage wrote: »

The pistol im building at the moment is based on a KJW Hi-cappa. Its going to have a scope rail, red dot reflex, tight bore barrel and high flow valves in the mags.

Is this the Co2 version? Do you have an pics of this piece? I too have been thinking about building something like this since i took delivery of my hi capa last week.

murph226

NakedDex wrote: »

It is true that most airsoft IPSC discipline shooters use heavily upgraded pistols. If I remember correctly, Warrior over on ASI regularly participates in events. He does a lot of custom race pistols for others in the same field. His own pistol (which is a work of art in it's own right) cost him around £500 sterling by the time it was competition ready.

I've done lots of 10M .177 shooting and used to compete reasonably often. When I started airsoft I looked into IPSC and tried it a good few times. I found it didn't at all compare to "proper" target shooting (for the want of a better word than proper) due to the inconsistancies in the GBB's. Targets I know I could hit dead centre normally often became left up to luck.

I'm not saying either skirmishing or IPSC is better, but I do rather skirmishing. I'd retry IPSC if I had a properly tuned race gun, but until then I'll stick to hitting moving targets which return fire, accurate or not.
(By the by, not all skirmishers "hold the trigger for 10 seconds" as someone said. Some of us actually treat skirmishing with the same reverence you bestow on IPSC. Try hitting a target 20 yards away, running a diagonal at full sprint with two of his buddies firing at you when you have a rifle which only fires semi auto and has 20 rounds in a mag. IPSC undoubtedly required skill, but so does that. Give skirmishers their due.)

you could buy a glock 17 for that kinda money, would you not think about getting a real pistol?

Witcher

murph226 wrote: »

you could buy a glock 17 for that kinda money, would you not think about getting a real pistol?

A RS pistol would possibly cost you more, when you consider:

gun,safe,licence fee,monitored alarm system,ammunition,club fee.